musKeeto:

I'm cool. You?

i'm saved.

plaetton:

Like many others of your type, you still fail to see what atheism means. It is just a lack of belief in god. Atheism does not have goal, like religious people whose goals are salvation, favor from god, and eternal life in Paradise.

The only thing that atheism MEANS is the absence of belief in god.

However else an individual atheist finds meaning and purpose in life is up to the individual.

So how does the belief of absence of God makes you feel? Relieved? Be honest with yourself.

paulGrundy:


So how does the belief of absence of God makes you feel? Relieved? Be honest with yourself.

To be honest, it gives clarity to everything. The belief in a super miraculous god obfuscates important existential issues.
God is the lazy and fearful man's guide to unreality.

My lack of belief in god gives me clarity, self-responsibility and unfetted freedom to think and imagine.

plaetton:


To be honest, it gives clarity to everything. The belief in a super miraculous god obfuscates important existential issues.
God is the lazy and fearful man's guide to unreality.

My lack of belief in god gives me clarity, self-responsibility and unfetted freedom to think and imagine.

Clarity of mind is good but what about clarity of heart that comes with joy, peace and satisfaction.
Logic will give you reasonable knowledge but Love with give you satisfaction and true happiness.
Which do you prefer Logic or Love?

Hiswordxray:

Clarity of mind is good but what about clarity of heart that comes with joy, peace and satisfaction.
Logic will give you reasonable knowledge but Love with give you satisfaction.
Which do you prefer Logic or Love?

Clarity of mind includes clarity of heart, the joy that comes from truth, honesty, peace and satisfaction.
So, I have all of the above.
I do not have to pay a mortgage for afterlife.

I don't mean to boast, but I find myself always giving counsel on life and about life to people who carry god and religion on their head.
It is almost as if , by doing away with the idea of god, I am impervious to fear, uncertainty, devil, evil spirits,etc.

Because I take full responsibility, I generally tend to be truthful , honest , empathic and fair.
I guess because I don't have a god to forgive me everyday for my sins, I am inclined to sin far less than the average christian who has the deluded previledge of waving his sins away every night during prayers.

muafrika:
That was the answer I was looking for.

Life is about relationships? Some of those are just oppressive. Am a little older, but just came to the realization of what is inside men. I am actively cutting off people and vain company and in the process finding back my way to peace.

I do love people to the best of my ability, but some, from a safe distance.

I once read a passage where Christ was followed by so many, yet He chose not to attach Himself to them as "he knew what was in men." So I asked, whatever is that? (Can't remember exact verse.)

You're not wrong. Some relationships are toxic. And we are better off without them.

Life is about relationship. That does not mean that we ought to be friends with everyone. Jesus Himself said that He came to bring not peace but a sword. Perhaps I should have said right relationship. But my meaning should be clear from the part about harmony.

It wouldn't be harmonious to have an arm and a leg swinging from both sides of your body. Harmony is when the right parts link up.

onetrack:
I never really believed, even though I went to church until I was 16. The whole thing sounded like the fantasy stories I had read as a child. When I finally actually read the Bible, that convinced me that it was just a man-made book. Same with the Quran, after being told what an amazing book it was I was terribly disappointed when I read it. Both books are just attempts to manipulate the beliefs of gullible people.

Let me see if I understand you. You never left Christianity. But you did give it a shot by reading the Bible. And you acquired your distaste for it because it sounded like fairy tales.

If I have understood you right, what do you have against fairy tales?

queensley55:

2. What is your difficulty with Christianity?

For me its having faith and believing in something even if reason tells me not too.

Ok. Where has reason conflicted with your faith?

Zeemoor:

Waiting on the Lord to "part the Red Sea" when you can easily choose another path so you'd get to "Cannan"
Struggling with unanswered prayers, not just for months but years......
Some days, it's a lot harder to wait and one's bank of patience depletes

Ok. Thanks for answering. Your problem is that God has a poor sense of timing and is rather unreliable.

But to be unreliable, He has to have made a commitment that justifies some expectation you have of Him. What commitment did He make that He failed to deliver on?

plaetton:

I left Christianity because the more I looked the more meaningless it seemed.
And over last few decades, it has become even a lot more meaningless.
Like I hinted, religious superstition is for a bygone era. Religion thrives on ignorance and fear.
Enlightenment takes care of ignorance, and empowerment takes care of fear. Here, religion, custodian religion, becomes less relevant as people begin to seek rational answers to existential questions.

If I understand you right, you left Christianity because it was redundant to you. You didn't need it because you had found a better solution to ignorance and fear.

What is the solution you found? And how does it prove better than Christianity?

ihedinobi2:

If I understand you right, you left Christianity because it was redundant to you. You didn't need it because you had found a better solution to ignorance and fear.

What is the solution you found? And how does it prove better than Christianity?

I didn't leave Christianity because I was looking for anything, but because I could not see it's utility, it's value to me , nor even those that practiced it.
It appeared to be Cascades and cascades of meaningless myths that worked well to Stoke fears and no other practical utility.
I noticed that it made no one good who was not inherently good.
It made no one disciplined who was not already so.
It made no one healthier, wealthier or even more reasonable than the other.
But it worked very well to foster hate and division even within families?

My point is that Christianity cannot be compared to anything because it represents nothing that an African can grasp.
It's values are pretended values that vary from one believer to another.

Even today, I have noisy Christian neighbor who is having an illicit romantic affair with the husband of a fellow Church member. It baffles me that she does not connect her religiosity with her real life behavior.
If forces me to continue to wonder what Christianity means to those that practice it.
It is lowly, meaningless philosophy.

plaetton:

I didn't leave Christianity because I was looking for anything, but because I could not see it's utility, it's value to me , nor even those that practiced it.
It appeared to be Cascades and cascades of meaningless myths that worked well to Stoke fears and no other practical utility.
I noticed that it made no one good who was not inherently good.
It made no one disciplined who was not already so.
It made no one healthier, wealthier or even more reasonable than the other.
But it worked very well to foster hate and division even within families?

You Sire! Earn my respect even more, for these few words of you.... Keep going H.A.M on them.

ihedinobi2:

You're not wrong. Some relationships are toxic. And we are better off without them.

Life is about relationship. That does not mean that we ought to be friends with everyone. Jesus Himself said that He came to bring not peace but a sword. Perhaps I should have said right relationship. But my meaning should be clear from the part about harmony.

It wouldn't be harmonious to have an arm and a leg swinging from both sides of your body. Harmony is when the right parts link up.

I agree.

plaetton:


To be honest, it gives clarity to everything. The belief in a super miraculous god obfuscates important existential issues.
God is the lazy and fearful man's guide to unreality.

My lack of belief in god gives me clarity, self-responsibility and unfetted freedom to think and imagine.

Life is actually quite choreographed my friend. Many a time, what is presented as wisdom and knowledge is just another means to an end for a veiled interest. Esp if that "clarity" is coming from another person and not from within.

Without the belief in existence apart from the norm that is the system tailored(believe me it is) for a "noble" few, you will ever conform to its purposed whiles. It is exactly that fact that makes religion such a threat to the designers of the worlds systems, like communism and basically any ruler with ambitions to control their masses minds by knowledge of only one way of existence.

muafrika:
Life is actually quite choreographed my friend. Many a time, what is presented as wisdom and knowledge is just another means to an end for a veiled interest. Esp if that "clarity" is coming from another person and not from within.

Without the belief in existence apart from the norm that is the system tailored(believe me it is) for a "noble" few, you will ever conform to its purposed whiles. It is exactly that fact that makes religion such a threat to the designers of the worlds systems, like communism and basically any ruler with ambitions to control their masses minds by knowledge of only one way of existence.

Lol.
Religion and communism have everything in common.
In fact, communism is coined from the Christian term of people who lived in Christian communes

plaetton:


Lol.
Religion and communism have everything in common.
In fact, communism is coined from the Christian term of people who lived in Christian communes

My point is - Christianity is a world system. One based on principles that clash head on with our established political, economic and social system. It is this that earns it status as "The Kingdom of God." It is a radical form of existence. Your disappointment with the so called Christians is telling of your expectations of that expected radical way of existence. I share in it.

muafrika:
My point is - Christianity is a world system. One based on principles that clash head on with our established political, economic and social system. It is this that earns it status as "The Kingdom of God." It is a radical form of existence. Your disappointment with the so called Christians is telling of your expectations of that expected radical way of existence. I share in it.

No sir.
You are very very wrong Sir.
You have it upside down. Go and reread your history.
Christianity is the established political, economic and social system that has ruled much of the world for nearly 2000 yrs.
It enjoyed a hegemony of power until the enlightenment era when it's power began to erode to where it is right now.

plaetton:

No sir.
You are very very wrong Sir.
You have it upside down. Go and reread your history.
Christianity is the established political, economic and social system that has ruled much of the world for nearly 2000 yrs.
It enjoyed a hegemony of power until the enlightenment era when it's power began to erode to where it is right now.

I get your point. But those powers were only Christian in name. The principles upon which Kingdoms like Rome were founded never ceased when it was declared Christian. Those who had imposed themselves lords over the masses continued with their usury, oppression, murder, dispossesion. Very contrary ideals.

Most of our present culture(and even rulers) is carried over from the Roman empire. The powers of the age never changed. Just rhetoric. Thats our enlightenment.

As for Catholic church, the reformation only exposed what it was all about. I know from your preceding posts you can tell how a real Christian should behave. Were they?

plaetton:

I didn't leave Christianity because I was looking for anything, but because I could not see it's utility, it's value to me , nor even those that practiced it.
It appeared to be Cascades and cascades of meaningless myths that worked well to Stoke fears and no other practical utility.
I noticed that it made no one good who was not inherently good.
It made no one disciplined who was not already so.
It made no one healthier, wealthier or even more reasonable than the other.
But it worked very well to foster hate and division even within families?

You, sir have said it all.

I wanted to comment but for some reason I felt I should read all the posts on here first. You have been speaking my mind from the very on set.

First, I will begin by saying that I WAS once a christian and I must also state that I have absolutely no regrets in referring to that part of my life in past-tense. I am currently an atheist and trust me, things have never been clearer - everyday, I see things in a whole new persepective.

Religion as you have clearly pointed out, thrives and preys on ignorance (and permit me to add, man's natural instinct to avoid responsibility for his actions). Religion is a hoax, a tool to enslave the minds of millions...without them realizing it. It is evident that a lot of people are now catching on - I'll be 19 in a few weeks and nothing brings me more joy than realizing I was able to fully understand and see religion for what it truly is at this point in my life. I am also happy that a lot of people, including you share my thoughts on it.

Here is a little something I ran into

"If we go back to the beginning, we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve their own interests. If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them."

plaetton:

Clarity of mind includes clarity of heart, the joy that comes from truth, honesty, peace and satisfaction.
So, I have all of the above.
I do not have to pay a mortgage for afterlife.

My question is "which do you prefer Logic Or Love?

plaetton:

I do not have to pay a mortgage for afterlife.
I don't mean to boast, but I find myself always giving counsel on life and about life to people who carry god and religion on their head.
It is almost as if , by doing away with the idea of god, I am impervious to fear, uncertainty, devil, evil spirits,etc.

Well it sad that many Christians have no idea what Christianity is and what the Bible is saying. The Church have failed in many ways. The Church have fail to represent God properly and teach the truth. But instead they teach fear, demons, spirit, hell and sin. The failure of the Church does not mean God doesn't exist neither does it mean God had fail. There is hope for the Church.

plaetton:

I generally tend to be truthful , honest , empathic and fair.
I guess because I don't have a god to forgive me everyday for my sins, I am inclined to sin far less than the average christian who has the deluded previledge of waving his sins away every night during prayers.

God had forgiven our sins over 2,000 years ago and Christians are wrong for always crying, pleading and begging for forgiveness.
I don't do all of that and I am not constantly conscious of sin but I try always to be conscious of God's love. And this is how it is meant to be.

Don't allow the mistakes of man cause you to fall away. Don't allow the foolishness of man cause you to be foolish. Don't allow the failures of the Church cause you to reject God, for what God really wants is not to give you a religion but to give you love and life.

Graviton2:
Here is a little something I ran into

"If we go back to the beginning, we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve their own interests. If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them."

You just gave a splendid picture of the principalities of this world. These gods you mentioned are the founding principalities of all "civilizations" of humanity since, well, man discovered "self," which we Christians refer to as the lust of the flesh (You should include it in that list).

The gods of this world are many as we may chose to think them up. That is the power of man, and of ideology.

But it is important to note that the God of Christ is not a creation of man. That is what sets him apart from the rest.

muafrika:
You just gave a splendid picture of the principalities of this world. These gods you mentioned are the founding principalities of all "civilizations" of humanity since, well, man discovered "self," which we Christians refer to as the lust of the flesh (You should include it in that list).

The gods of this world are many as we may chose to think them up. That is the power of man, and of ideology.

But it is important to note that the God of Christ is not a creation of man. That is what sets him apart from the rest.

Lol. What makes your god any less made up than theirs? What makes theirs a figment of their fantasies and yours, a part of reality?

Graviton2:


Lol. What makes your god any less made up than theirs.

He made theirs. And that belief you live for too, thats YOUR personal god. Measure it against the values you just gave above.

plaetton:

I didn't leave Christianity because I was looking for anything, but because I could not see it's utility, it's value to me , nor even those that practiced it.
It appeared to be Cascades and cascades of meaningless myths that worked well to Stoke fears and no other practical utility.
I noticed that it made no one good who was not inherently good.
It made no one disciplined who was not already so.
It made no one healthier, wealthier or even more reasonable than the other.
But it worked very well to foster hate and division even within families?

God had totally change who am. I was once a dummy but the year I gave by life to Christ I became a genius. If I should tell you how dumb I was you would laugh at me. Even my mother thought someone had spiritually stolen my brain. The last time I took any drug had been very long. Before I always have headache and when it comes I feel burning sensation in both my head and my eyes plus constant bagging at the back of my head. My headache was terrible but now it's history. I have had other sickness or abnormalities which miraculously got healed but I can't mention them one by one. I don't believe in falling sick and I am planning never to fall sick.

I use to be stubborn and I love arguing a lot but now I'm more humble, easily accept my mistakes and I hate arguing more than anything else. There are so many things about my nature that have change that looking back at who I use to be makes me wonder if the present me is an alien. But I still have a long way to go in becoming like Christ.

I came from a very poor family and I have little hope of going to the university. But now I go to school (university) like a rich man's child despite the fact that my father is dead and my mother is still very poor. I can boldly say there is nothing I want that I don't get. I am not working but my heavenly Father is personally taking care of me.

I can go on and on and on about how my life have change seen I found God.
Now I can see a beautiful future because God had show me part of it. I am going to be a very great and influential man and I know you will hear of me. What makes me more happy is that I will help touch and transform many lives.

So you should rethink. Just because the Christians you see around you are messed up doesn't mean all Christians are messed up.
There is something called induction- just because the goats you observed around you are black doesn't mean all goat are black.

Many had made mistakes but don't let their mistakes cause you to make a even greater mistake.

muafrika:
He made theirs. And that belief you live for too, thats YOUR personal god. Measure it against the values you just gave above.

Okay. now this is funny (no offence)

I do not do well with arguments - you can ask about me, I get very nasty when I get carried away.

In light of this I will keep my opinion very brief. Your god (same applies to the other variations) are all metaphors, an imagination, a thought that has become rather oddly personified over the long years of human existence...your god is no better than theirs.

In the very wise words of Voltaire: Religion to the simple is salvation. To the wise, false...and to the powerful, control.

Enjoy the remainder of your day.

Graviton2:


Lol. What makes your god any less made up than theirs? What makes theirs a figment of their fantasies and yours, a part of reality?

I do not consider either to be just a fantacy.

plaetton:

No sir.
You are very very wrong Sir.
You have it upside down. Go and reread your history.
Christianity is the established political, economic and social system that has ruled much of the world for nearly 2000 yrs.
It enjoyed a hegemony of power until the enlightenment era when it's power began to erode to where it is right now.

If you are looking for religion you will get disappointed but if you are looking for God you will find him.
And God is all about love not fear, for God himself is Love.

Graviton2:


Okay. now this is funny (no offence)

I do not do well with arguments - you can ask about me, I get very nasty when I get carried away.

In light of this I will keep my opinion very brief. Your god (same applies to the other variations) are all metaphors, an imagination, a thought that has become rather oddly personified over the long years of human existence...your god is no better than theirs.

In the very wise words of Voltaire: Religion to the simple is salvation. To the wise, false...and to the powerful, control.

Enjoy the remainder of your day.

Enjoy yours like wise.

I realized I was always giving christianity the benefit of doubt, even when it clearly failed I still found myself actually making things up, spinning things, or out-rightly telling lies just to rationalize and justify thing because I truly believed or wanted to believe. I just decided to stop giving faith the benefit of doubt and allow it to prove it's self if it's actually true. It has never proven it self and I stopped believing. Right now I consider my self to be some one that is on a journey.

dalaman:
I realized I was always giving christianity the benefit of doubt, even when it clearly failed I still found myself actually making things up, spinning things, or out-rightly telling lies just to rationalize and justify thing because I truly believed or wanted to believe. I just decided to stop giving faith the benefit of doubt and allow it to prove it's self if it's actually true. It has never proven it self and I stopped believing. Right now I consider my self to be some one that is on a journey.

I just smiled reading your post. Made me read your other post on justice.