dalaman:
I realized I was always giving christianity the benefit of doubt, even when it clearly failed I still found myself actually making things up, spinning things, or out-rightly telling lies just to rationalize and justify thing because I truly believed or wanted to believe. I just decided to stop giving faith the benefit of doubt and allow it to prove it's self if it's actually true. It has never proven it self and I stopped believing. Right now I consider my self to be some one that is on a journey.

muafrika:
I get your point. But those powers were only Christian in name. The principles upon which Kingdoms like Rome were founded never ceased when it was declared Christian. Those who had imposed themselves lords over the masses continued with their usury, oppression, murder, dispossesion. Very contrary ideals.

Most of our present culture(and even rulers) is carried over from the Roman empire. The powers of the age never changed. Just rhetoric. Thats our enlightenment.

As for Catholic church, the reformation only exposed what it was all about. I know from your preceding posts you can tell how a real Christian should behave. Were they?

Hiswordxray:

You didn't seek God. You seek religion any you had faith in religion but it failed you. Of course religion is messed up and disappointing but if you seek God you will find him.

plaetton:


Wow.
I agree with you 100%.

muafrika:
Actually, as a person, I have issues with the religious establishment. What keeps me a Christian are some mind blowing spiritual encounters on a personal level that I can't ignore. Otherwise I would be on the other side of this discussion.

dalaman:
I realized I was always giving christianity the benefit of doubt, even when it clearly failed I still found myself actually making things up, spinning things, or out-rightly telling lies just to rationalize and justify thing because I truly believed or wanted to believe. I just decided to stop giving faith the benefit of doubt and allow it to prove it's self if it's actually true. It has never proven it self and I stopped believing. Right now I consider my self to be some one that is on a journey.

dalaman:


God, faith and religion are all the same thing. I seek for God but realized that God was never there.

dalaman:


Do you mind sharing these spiritual encounters?

dalaman:


God, faith and religion are all the same thing. I seek for God but realized that God was never there.

muafrika:
With you, I don't mind. My transition from doubts and your kind of questions to unreasonnable belief for one. I was standing outside at night just watching some young teenagers worship wondering what all the effort was about when my mind suddenly changed. It just HIT me. It was so unreasonable. All the questions I had STILL were in me, they just did not matter. From,there I made effort to study God, and from this experience I knew that God was quite capable of teaching and revealing HIMSELF. And I took advantage of it. It has led me to further experiences that I would rather not share in public. I may share them with you through P.M. I learnt then that God does whatever He wishes. He could have revealed Himself to me when I said the prayer or when I started going to church if He wanted but chose not to till later. He could reveal Himself to the whole world but choses not to. That's harsh, but it is who He is.

Hiswordxray:

They are not all the same. I seek for God and I found him. Other people I knew who sought for God also found him.
Maybe you made mistakes. Maybe you mistake God for religion. Maybe you didn't do it right.
Just maybe.

Hiswordxray:

They are not all the same. I seek for God and I found him. Other people I knew who sought for God also found him.
Maybe you made mistakes. Maybe you mistake God for religion. Maybe you didn't do it right.
Just maybe.

dalaman:


How did you find God? Where is God so that I can also seek him and find him?

plaetton:


Why does an individual have to seek god?
Why is god not self-evident, that way no one has to seek him?

Why does a god who did all kinds of crap in the old testament now in hiding, and have to be sought?

plaetton:


Why does an individual have to seek god?
Why is god not self-evident, that way no one has to seek him?

Why does a god who did all kinds of crap in the old testament now in hiding, and have to be sought?

dalaman:


Very good questions, considering that according to christianity God wants to know humans and be in a relationship with them. Why hide when God wants people to know him and want to have a relationship with him? God is just what ever we humans that believe in the concept chose to make of it.

Hiswordxray:

You are not a truth seeker and am sure most of the things (concerning why you left Christianity) you posted on this trend are lies.
You have harden you heart towards God and you do not desire to find him even if he exist. You are like ifeness, he knows he is going to hell but the pleasures he enjoins from sin won't let him accept their is a God. I had been studying you and I know people like you.

So please tell us again, this time the truth why you left Christianity.

Hiswordxray:

You are not a truth seeker and am sure most of the things (concerning why you left Christianity) you posted on this trend are lies.
You have harden you heart towards God and you do not desire to find him even if he exist. You are like ifeness, he knows he is going to hell but the pleasures he enjoins from sin won't let him accept their is a God. I had been studying you and I know people like you.

So please tell us again, this time the truth why you left Christianity.

Hiswordxray:

God is not hiding, it is us that is hiding. God is crying out day and night for you to hear him but you don't know how to listen. When I said I will help you find God, I mean I would help you find and hear his voice that had been calling for you all this while.
God is desperately in love with you.

dalaman:


That is my problem with the God concept, it does no real work in reality. God is just like an abstract idea that can be used to mean anything. Humans don't act that way. If God reveals himself to humans then why is the need for God needing humans to propagate his message? Why not just reveal himself to all humans to end all doubt? After all he wants all humans to know him and receive his salvation...

plaetton:


This is pure idiocy.
I am sorry I wasted my time with you.
It's very irritating discussing with some one, then find out that the person is a low IQ individual.
Goodbye.

plaetton:


This is pure idiocy.
I am sorry I wasted my time with you.
It's very irritating discussing with some one, then find out that the person is a low IQ individual.
Goodbye.

plaetton:


This is pure idiocy.
I am sorry I wasted my time with you.
It's very irritating discussing with some one, then find out that the person is a low IQ individual.
Goodbye.

dalaman:
You claim to be the mouth piece of God, you also claim to know how to lead people to God. He asked you very simple questions, instead of answering, you just went on a tirade of how he has hardened his heart and what not. You did everything to digress in other not to answer his simple questions.

dalaman:
You claim to be the mouth piece of God, you also claim to know how to lead people to God. He asked you very simple questions, instead of answering, you just went on a tirade of how he has hardened his heart and what not. You did everything to digress in other not to answer his simple questions.

dalaman:


How are we hiding? I am definitely not hiding. How can an all powerful omnipotent being that can do all things be crying day and night for people he wants to be in a relationship with to hear him? Do you really know the implication of what you are saying? Some times you need to sit back and think through some of the things you are saying because t makes no sense at all, it nothing but special pleading. God has never called me. I have never heard his voice, all I have heard so far are people telling me what to believe, what to do and how to act when it comes to the idea of God. You can not help me find God. You can only help me accept your ideas and convictions about God.Your ideas and conception of God I know will be very different from another Christian who will also want to help me find God. So you see, it all boils down to what our minds make out of the idea and conception of God.

dalaman:

How are we hiding? I am definitely not hiding. How can an all powerful omnipotent being that can do all things be crying day and night for people he wants to be in a relationship with to hear him? Do you really know the implication of what you are saying? Some times you need to sit back and think through some of the things you are saying because t makes no sense at all, it nothing but special pleading. God has never called me. I have never heard his voice, all I have heard so far are people telling me what to believe, what to do and how to act when it comes to the idea of God. You can not help me find God. You can only help me accept your ideas and convictions about God.Your ideas and conception of God I know will be very different from another Christian who will also want to help me find God. So you see, it all boils down to what our minds make out of the idea and conception of God.

Tranglatar:


To me an Atheist is someone who has tried but could not reason out GOD and HIS ways. Not that he doesn't believe in GOD per se but to him, GOD doesn't act in the way he expects HIM to act. GOD's ways to him is not logical This mostly due to environmental influence that makes one unconsciously develop KPIs to judge GOD with. So out of anger at his/ her failure to predict GOD and HIS ways, HE rejects HIM and unconsciously expect HIM to prove HIMSELF by the way he expects HIM to call him back to HIS fold. Nobody is born an atheist !!! You only become an atheist. Using the bible may not move the person. i suggest books like Dark Night of the Soul by St John of the Cross.

Hiswordxray:

OK it seem you've already made up your mind.
Well I tried and I know that God loves you. He won't give up on you and he would surely reach you. Just be prepared, open your heart and he would reach you.

Hiswordxray:

I spoke the truth because Jesus is the truth.
You want to know why people like him will be thrown into hell. Because they know God exist but they run away from him.
The real reason he left Christianity is because he couldn't stop committing sin and the guilt is killing him. He his afraid of hell. If you don't believe me go back and read what he posted on why he left Christianity. He keep mentioning the words "fear" and "sin".
He thought by disbelieving in God his guilt will disappear and by disbelieving in hell his fear will disappear.
He wants to remain in his sins and he refuse to face reality.

Don't be fooled by what he says or the questions and argument he tries to bring up.

If you want to find God I would help you.

Tranglatar:


To me an Atheist is someone who has tried but could not reason out GOD and HIS ways. Not that he doesn't believe in GOD per se but to him, GOD doesn't act in the way he expects HIM to act. GOD's ways to him is not logical This mostly due to environmental influence that makes one unconsciously develop KPIs to judge GOD with. So out of anger at his/ her failure to predict GOD and HIS ways, HE rejects HIM and unconsciously expect HIM to prove HIMSELF by the way he expects HIM to call him back to HIS fold. Nobody is born an atheist !!! You only become an atheist. Using the bible may not move the person. i suggest books like Dark Night of the Soul by St John of the Cross.

plaetton:

I left Christianity because the more I looked the more meaningless it seemed.
And over last few decades, it has become even a lot more meaningless.
Like I hinted, religious superstition is for a bygone era. Religion thrives on ignorance and fear.
Enlightenment takes care of ignorance, and empowerment takes care of fear. Here, religion, custodian religion, becomes less relevant as people begin to seek rational answers to existential questions.