17.    Being unable to deal with calamities, for instance crying and yelling     in funerals.

@babs

Re the above - are you saying its ok to cry silently but its haram to cry out loud at a funeral? (a sin or just a weakness? ).

Ok, this is my personal story - I am a Christian and Christians cry at funerals.  However, because I don't cry and show emotions my mother thinks I am heartless like my father.  And i think heartless is a very strong word.

Before:

I never cry in public and a lot of times in private either.  If i do cry in private - its not the boo hoo crying, its the cuddle in bed watery eyes crying.

One time my father screamed at me and I cried (tears ran down my cheek).  He did not apologized but said crying is a weakness and i am not to show weakness.  My brother by father side said the same thing.  Even an ex-coworker (Palestinian) said "i hate to see people cry"

Present

Now, i can't cry at funerals or anything that rightly deserves an emotion.  Last Monday i cried internally, meaning i felt extreme emotions but no tears/watery eyes.

it bothers me because I want to cry but I can't.  I feel bad because i think a child should be able to cry (death)for his/her father.  Maybe i am afraid to cry because i don't want to be known as weak and i want to be strong for my father.

My other brother (same mother/father) just don't care our father is dead.  Then my mother always saying "why can't yoiu be like your brother and that I am "heartless" like my father.  You kidding me?? - heartless because i don't show emotions.  Saying that, I always try to do the opposite of my mom's teachings just to hurt my mom's feelings.

Good night and Good luck

Peace

@Cayon

Firstly, I would like to tender my sincere condolence on the death of your father. May Allah forgive him his sins and grant his Al-janah (Amin). It is from Him we come and it is to Him we return.

17. Being unable to deal with calamities, for instance crying and yelling in funerals.

@babs

Re the above - are you saying its ok to cry silently but its haram to cry out loud at a funeral? (a sin or just a weakness? ).

Ok, this is my personal story - I am a Christian and Christians cry at funerals. However, because I don't cry and show emotions my mother thinks I am heartless like my father. And i think heartless is a very strong word.

Before:

I never cry in public and a lot of times in private either. If i do cry in private - its not the boo hoo crying, its the cuddle in bed watery eyes crying.

One time my father screamed at me and I cried (tears ran down my cheek). He did not apologized but said crying was a weakness and i am not to show weakness. My brother by father side said the same thing. Even an ex-coworker (Palestinian) said "i hate to see people cry"

Present

Now, i can't cry at funerals or anything that rightly deserves an emotion. Last Monday i cried internally, meaning i felt extreme emotions but no tears/watery eyes.

it bothers me because I want to cry but I can't. I feel bad because i think a child should be able to cry (death)for his/her father. Maybe i am afraid to cry because i don't want to be known as weak and i want to be strong for my father.

My other brother (same mother/father) just don't care our father is dead. Then my mother always saying "why can't yoiu be like your brother and that I am "heartless" like my father. You kidding me?? - heartless because i don't show emotions. Saying that, I always try to do the opposite of my mom teachings just to hurt my moms feelings.

Good night and Good luck

Peace

Quran 3 v 185: Everyone shall taste death. And only on the day of
resurrection shall you be paid your wages in full. And whoever is removed away
from the fire and admitted to paradise, this person is indeed successful. The life of
this world is only the enjoyment of deception:"

Quran 29 v 57: " Every soul shall have the taste of death " .

You can cry but not continuously cry loudly, wail, take off clothing (such as Hijab), act insane or hysterical, neglect yourself and your family due to your grief, and things of that nature.

It is forbidden to weep: Weeping means to yell or cry out loudly. Um-Atia (R.A.) said: "We took an oath before the messenger of Allah not to weep." [Reported by Imams, Bukhari and Muslim].

Also, the dead suffers from and dislikes his family's weeping. The prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) said: "Whosoever is wept upon will suffer as a result of this weeping." (This is because the dead person can hear the crying). [Reported by Imams, Bukhari and Muslim]

Fiqh-us-Sunnah, Volume 4:
Volume 4, Page 21: Weeping Over the Dead
Muslim scholars are agreed that weeping for the dead is permissible, whereas crying and wailing are not[/b]. It is reported in a sound hadith that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "[b]Allah does not punish a person for shedding tears or feeling pain in his heart. But He does punish, though he may show mercy, because of (what he utters with) this," and then he pointed to his tongue.

Weeping aloud and wailing cause pain and suffering to the dead person. It is reported from Ibn 'Umar that when 'Umar was stabbed and he became unconscious the people around him began crying loudly. When he regained consciousness he said to them: "Don't you know that the Messenger of Allah said: 'A dead person is tormented by the wailing of the living'."

Al-Mughirah ibn Sh'ubah reports that he heard the Prophet, peace be upon him, saying: "The one who is wailed for is tortured on account of it." The above hadith are reported by Bukhari and Muslim.

These hadith mean that a dead person feels pain and displeasure when his family wails over him, for he hears their wailing and their deeds are shown to him. This does not mean that the dead are actually punished and tormented because of the wailing of their families for them, because the Qur'an says that a person is not accountable for the actions of others[/b].

Ibn Jarir reported from Abu Hurairah that he said: "Your deeds are shown to your dead relatives. So if these are good, they are pleased, and if these are bad, they despise them."
Ahmad and Tirmizhi reported on the authority of Anas that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "Your deeds are shown to your dead relatives and kinsfolk. So if these are good they are pleased, and if these are bad they say: 'O Allah! Let them not die until You have guided them to the right path as You guided us before'."

[b]Volume 4, Page 22: Wailing over the Dead
Wailing refers to mourning in a loud voice and crying in a high pitch, which was prohibited by the Prophet, peace be upon him[/b], . Abu Malik alAsh'ari reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: [b]"Four practices of the pre-Islamic days of Ignorance will continue to be practiced by my ummah: taking pride in one's parentage, giving a person a father other than his own genealogical father, believing that rain is caused by some stars, and wailing over the dead." He further said: "A (professional) mourner, unless she repents before her death, will be raised on the Day of Judgement wearing a garment of tar and an armor of blistering puss." This is narrated by Ahmad and Muslim.

@Cayon

Christians believe Jesus is Lord. Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet but do not believe he is Lord, yet. One of these days, they'll come to their senses

I saw this in another thread and felt I should bring it here. You are very correct by saying that Jesus is a prophet and not Lord which happened to be my believe. Do you have any proof to show that he is your Lord and personal savior from the bible and we look into it together?

Muslims are with their senses but it is christians that needs to examine and ask themselves if Jesus indeed brought a different religion and preached message different from those of earlier prophets.

@Cayon: « on: Today at 04:25:44 AM »  

17.    Being unable to deal with calamities, for instance crying and yelling     in funerals.

@babs

Re the above - are you saying its ok to cry silently but its haram to cry out loud at a funeral? (a sin or just a weakness? ).

The Messenger (AS) cried about the death of his favorite Uncle, the Lion, the leader of those who are killed in the path of their struggles for Allah. He cried not the boo hoo type of cry. But he cried for the soul that departed, and also in reflection of his own soul.

Only a soul that is bad and the heart that is evil and hard are devoid of showing proper emotion. But emotion must be moderate, and should not be exteme. The crying and emotional displayed should not be like the hired "undertakers" who will bring theatrics to their emotion. You will see people wailing, slapping their own faces, a sign of dishonoring the person crying. Women may be rolling on the floor, ground without any human decency, to the point that they are exposing what are supposed to be covered. I have seen people pulling at their own hair. All of these are unnecessary, since none of it will change the situation.

Ok, this is my personal story - I am a Christian and Christians cry at funerals.  However, because I don't cry and show emotions my mother thinks I am heartless like my father.  And i think heartless is a very strong word.

You should become muslim and bring your mother along. A bleeding heart does not necessarily mean that the leak is exterior. Just because you are not the boo hoo throwing yourself on the floor kinda woman does not mean that your heart is hard.

Before:

I never cry in public and a lot of times in private either.  If i do cry in private - its not the boo hoo crying, its the cuddle in bed watery eyes crying.

I do cry boo hoo in the public, when there are topics of Islam discussed. These topics are very emotional. For instance, the suffering of the Parsian companion known as Salman Al Farsi, into Islam is very emotional. How this man from the lap of islam, journeyed out of "fire worship" to Christianity and then finally, to Islam. Please read it. Do a research on this man. Now thats a good cry. Unlike the one about death. This cry about the true religion brings softness of heart and purity of soul.

One time my father screamed at me and I cried (tears ran down my cheek).  He did not apologized but said crying was a weakness and i am not to show weakness.  My brother by father side said the same thing.  Even an ex-coworker (Palestinian) said "i hate to see people cry"

Crying is not waekness. Shyness is not weakness or meekness, either. Cats are shy only for an instant, before the "liony" preditor quality comes out, when necessary. And the palestinian guy should not be a yardstick of how Islam is, when it comes to crying or not. Muhammad (AS) set the measurement, among human, by the instructions of his Lord, Allah the Almighty Creator.

Present

Now, i can't cry at funerals or anything that rightly deserves an emotion.  Last Monday i cried internally, meaning i felt extreme emotions but no tears/watery eyes.

I do cry. Even when I hear my mother's voice. But everything has a limit. When you cry because a person dies, it should be because you pity the soul of the dead and reflecting on your own, maybe it is not good enough for Paradise, yet. But it should not be because you are thinking that the worldly duty of that person can not be replaced or done by someone else! In this sense, you are actually limiting the power of Allah, doubting what the future may hold.

it bothers me because I want to cry but I can't.  I feel bad because i think a child should be able to cry (death)for his/her father.  Maybe i am afraid to cry because i don't want to be known as weak and i want to be strong for my father.

Did you lose your father, already? I am sorry about that. A young child should be able to cry, and show emotion. Even in a stronger dispaly than adult. Somebody over 40 years should not show the same emotion. While a child may think that there is no solution, a fully grown person, over 40 must know that Allah may use him/her as the solution for the Child's problem.

My other brother (same mother/father) just don't care our father is dead.  Then my mother always saying "why can't yoiu be like your brother and that I am "heartless" like my father.  You kidding me?? - heartless because i don't show emotions.  Saying that, I always try to do the opposite of my mom teachings just to hurt my moms feelings.

Good night and Good luck

If your brother does not care if your father is dead, he must not be showing any "great emotion." How then can your mother classifies you to be "heartless and different from your brother", who did not cry a "spit" in this case? I still my father who died in 1966. The only reason that I miss him now is the religiousity. He was a very religious (ra). But I have moved on. So when I prostrate my face, I pray for him and my grand mother and his parents. My mother's father was a Christian. Now, I am happy that my mother is muslim. I can pray for her soul, when she dies. But I want her to be alive for another 20 years so that she can see many of my children's children. And me, making some new babies.

@Cayon

I forgot to add this in post but remembered having sent it.

My father died in the middle of this year and died while with him. My brother was with him in case he might need something but I stood with my mother to calm her down.

The doctor attending to my father told my brother that he should get him something to drink, like fruit juice so that the drugs could work on him.

My brother rushed and bought the fruit juice, went inside and came out few minutes called me aside and told me that father is dead. I couldnt believe my ears.

By then, one of my siblings came back from where he was sent to and stayed with my mother.
When my brother came out to tell the sad news to me, we both wnt inside and told the security operative at the entrance not to allow our mother in so that she would not 'scatter' the whole place and told them security operative to tell her that women are not allowed in.

My brother and I went inside to where my father was laid, felt his pulse, recited 'Ina Lillah wa inLah Rajiun, 'It is from thee we come and unto thee we return'.

Funny enough, after reciting this, we both stood, looked at our dead father for minutes (maybe thinking within ourselves or not believing our eyes), looked at each other's face and went out.

My other siblings that happened to be male too entered, did the same thing, came out without a single drop coming out of our eyes!.

When we came out, the next thing was to take our mother home so as not 'scatter' the whole place.

Let me stop there as thats not the reason for this thread.

I got to my parent's home that day, went to somewhere quiet and cry my heart out. The rwason for the cry is that to me, he didnt eat the fruit of his labour as he is supposed to but at the same time, I was and am happy that he died as a muslim.

On the day he was to be buried, after having dug the grave and laid him in, I noticed that most of us that happened to be his male children didnt cry not even when we threw handful of sand on him.

We later heard from sympathizers that, 'na wa for these children o, not even a single drop from their eyes', they have hardened hearts etc'.

Later after the burial rites when we were together, we asked ourselves, that is, the male children that, 'why didnt we cry at the hospital and at the funeral rite? We told ourselves that , crying till tomorrow would not bring him back but we should prepare him on how to escape the punishment of the grave and increase his good deeds rather than weeping that would have effect on him and not bring him back to life.

It is normal for one to cry or show emotion but not the tearing of clothes, refusing to eat, causing scene etc.

Thanks babs.  However, I must admit that you are not too clear on your response or its me being dense I'll respond to your question asap

Peace

babs787:

@Cayon

Firstly, I would like to tender my sincere condolence on the death of your father. May Allah forgive him his sins and grant his Al-janah (Amin). It is from Him we come and it is to Him we return.


Quran 3 v 185: Everyone shall taste death. And only on the day of
resurrection shall you be paid your wages in full. And whoever is removed away
from the fire and admitted to paradise, this person is indeed successful. The life of
this world is only the enjoyment of deception:"

Quran 29 v 57: " Every soul shall have the taste of death " .

You can cry but not continuously cry loudly, wail, take off clothing (such as Hijab), act insane or hysterical, neglect yourself and your family due to your grief, and things of that nature.

It is forbidden to weep: Weeping means to yell or cry out loudly. Um-Atia (R.A.) said: "We took an oath before the messenger of Allah not to weep." [Reported by Imams, Bukhari and Muslim].

Also, the dead suffers from and dislikes his family's weeping. The prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) said: "Whosoever is wept upon will suffer as a result of this weeping." (This is because the dead person can hear the crying). [Reported by Imams, Bukhari and Muslim]

Fiqh-us-Sunnah, Volume 4:
Volume 4, Page 21: Weeping Over the Dead
Muslim scholars are agreed that weeping for the dead is permissible, whereas crying and wailing are not[/b]. It is reported in a sound hadith that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "[b]Allah does not punish a person for shedding tears or feeling pain in his heart. But He does punish, though he may show mercy, because of (what he utters with) this," and then he pointed to his tongue.

Weeping aloud and wailing cause pain and suffering to the dead person. It is reported from Ibn 'Umar that when 'Umar was stabbed and he became unconscious the people around him began crying loudly. When he regained consciousness he said to them: "Don't you know that the Messenger of Allah said: 'A dead person is tormented by the wailing of the living'."

Al-Mughirah ibn Sh'ubah reports that he heard the Prophet, peace be upon him, saying: "The one who is wailed for is tortured on account of it." The above hadith are reported by Bukhari and Muslim.

These hadith mean that a dead person feels pain and displeasure when his family wails over him, for he hears their wailing and their deeds are shown to him. This does not mean that the dead are actually punished and tormented because of the wailing of their families for them, because the Qur'an says that a person is not accountable for the actions of others[/b].

Ibn Jarir reported from Abu Hurairah that he said: "Your deeds are shown to your dead relatives. So if these are good, they are pleased, and if these are bad, they despise them."
Ahmad and Tirmizhi reported on the authority of Anas that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "Your deeds are shown to your dead relatives and kinsfolk. So if these are good they are pleased, and if these are bad they say: 'O Allah! Let them not die until You have guided them to the right path as You guided us before'."

[b]Volume 4, Page 22: Wailing over the Dead
Wailing refers to mourning in a loud voice and crying in a high pitch, which was prohibited by the Prophet, peace be upon him[/b], . Abu Malik alAsh'ari reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: [b]"Four practices of the pre-Islamic days of Ignorance will continue to be practiced by my ummah: taking pride in one's parentage, giving a person a father other than his own genealogical father, believing that rain is caused by some stars, and wailing over the dead." He further said: "A (professional) mourner, unless she repents before her death, will be raised on the Day of Judgement wearing a garment of tar and an armor of blistering puss." This is narrated by Ahmad and Muslim.

Thanks Ola

You did well in answering my question BUT what do you mean by your quote below

"Did you lose your father, already?"

What?? you were expecting him to go sooner.  Ok, he didn't die from old age. . . , satisfy now :-

Peace

olabowale:

@Cayon: « on: Today at 04:25:44 AM » 
The Messenger (AS) cried about the death of his favorite Uncle, the Lion, the leader of those who are killed in the path of their struggles for Allah. He cried not the boo hoo type of cry. But he cried for the soul that departed, and also in reflection of his own soul.

Only a soul that is bad and the heart that is evil and hard are devoid of showing proper emotion. But emotion must be moderate, and should not be exteme. The crying and emotional displayed should not be like the hired "undertakers" who will bring theatrics to their emotion. You will see people wailing, slapping their own faces, a sign of dishonoring the person crying. Women may be rolling on the floor, ground without any human decency, to the point that they are exposing what are supposed to be covered. I have seen people pulling at their own hair. All of these are unnecessary, since none of it will change the situation.



You should become muslim and bring your mother along. A bleeding heart does not necessarily mean that the leak is exterior. Just because you are not the boo hoo throwing yourself on the floor kind of woman does not mean that your heart is hard.


I do cry boo hoo in the public, when there are topics of Islam discussed. These topics are very emotional. For instance, the suffering of the Parsian companion known as Salman Al Farsi, into Islam is very emotional. How this man from the lap of islam, journeyed out of "fire worship" to Christianity and then finally, to Islam. Please read it. Do a research on this man. Now thats a good cry. Unlike the one about death. This cry about the true religion brings softness of heart and purity of soul.



Crying is not waekness. Shyness is not weakness or meekness, either. Cats are shy only for an instant, before the "liony" preditor quality comes out, when necessary. And the palestinian guy should not be a yardstick of how Islam is, when it comes to crying or not. Muhammad (AS) set the measurement, among human, by the instructions of his Lord, Allah the Almighty Creator.



I do cry. Even when I hear my mother's voice. But everything has a limit. When you cry because a person dies, it should be because you pity the soul of the dead and reflecting on your own, maybe it is not good enough for Paradise, yet. But it should not be because you are thinking that the worldly duty of that person can not be replaced or done by someone else! In this sense, you are actually limiting the power of Allah, doubting what the future may hold.



Did you lose your father, already? I am sorry about that. A young child should be able to cry, and show emotion. Even in a stronger dispaly than adult. Somebody over 40 years should not show the same emotion. While a child may think that there is no solution, a fully grown person, over 40 must know that Allah may use him/her as the solution for the Child's problem.



If your brother does not care if your father is dead, he must not be showing any "great emotion." How then can your mother classifies you to be "heartless and different from your brother", who did not cry a "spit" in this case? I still my father who died in 1966. The only reason that I miss him now is the religiousity. He was a very religious (ra). But I have moved on. So when I prostrate my face, I pray for him and my grand mother and his parents. My mother's father was a Christian. Now, I am happy that my mother is muslim. I can pray for her soul, when she dies. But I want her to be alive for another 20 years so that she can see many of my children's children. And me, making some new babies.

@Cayon:

I never cry in public and a lot of times in private either. If i do cry in private - its not the boo hoo crying, its the cuddle in bed watery eyes crying.

One time my father screamed at me and I cried (tears ran down my cheek). He did not apologized but said crying is a weakness and i am not to show weakness. My brother by father side said the same thing. Even an ex-coworker (Palestinian) said "i hate to see people cry"

Present

Now, i can't cry at funerals or anything that rightly deserves an emotion. Last Monday i cried internally, meaning i felt extreme emotions but no tears/watery eyes.

it bothers me because I want to cry but I can't. I feel bad because i think a child should be able to cry (death)for his/her father. Maybe i am afraid to cry because i don't want to be known as weak and i want to be strong for my father.

My other brother (same mother/father) just don't care our father is dead. Then my mother always saying "why can't yoiu be like your brother and that I am "heartless" like my father. You kidding me?? - heartless because i don't show emotions. Saying that, I always try to do the opposite of my mom's teachings just to hurt my mom's feelings.

The highlighted may lead someone to conclude as I have. I do not want your father to die. At least not until he sees your grandchildren having their own children. If he is not a muslim, I pray that he becomes a muslim, along with you and bring your mom along, too.

By the way do things that will please her, and not what will hurt her feelings. One is allowed to disobey parents only when they want you to disobey Allah The God Almighty. I think you are ready for Islam. Dont delay. Becoming muslim is something one should hasts to do. Others are Salah, marriage and burial of the dead. You should hurry to pay your creditors, too. You should also hurry to seek repentance.

Good night and Good luck

Ola

I can't walk away my Lord

olabowale:

@Cayon:
I think you are ready for Islam. don't delay. Becoming muslim is something one should hasts to do. Others are Salah, marriage and burial of the dead. You should hurry to pay your creditors, too. You should also hurry to seek repentance.
Good night and Good luck

I can seek repentance through Christ too. . . . .right?

quick question.

Cayon are you converting to Islam?

If not

I can seek repentance through Christ too. . . . .right?

Do you really think they're gonna say Yes?

well i didn't want to open a new thread and I searched all 5 pages for a thread pertaining to the question i am about to ask you.

Well, i just learn in the Romance section that women (Muslims) are circumcised like men.  To quench my thirst for knowledge - i googled "circumcised women" and there were mixed reviews on it.  So i asked : -  

On circumcised women - What does the Shariah say on this and what are the Prophet’s words regarding this?

FGM isnt Islamic, it's indigenous to certain places

@Cayon

hanks babs. However, I must admit that you are not too clear on your response or its me being dense Undecided I'll respond to your question asap

I saw your emboldened words but still do not understand what seemed unclear. The Hadiths and explanations are very straight forward.

@Cayon

On circumcised women - What does the Shariah say on this and what are the Prophet’s words regarding this?

Its not allowed in Islam as there is no Hadith or Quranic verses supporting this. The Hadiths talked about male circumcision and there is nowhere Female should be circumcised in Islam.


Narrated 'Abdullah bin Yazid Al-Ansari: "The Prophet forbade robbery (taking away what belongs to others without their permission), and also forbade mutilation (or maiming) of bodies. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Oppressions, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 654)"

Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said 'The Prophet Abraham circumcised himsel[/b]f after he had passed the age of eighty years and he circumcised himself with an adze.'

Narrated Said bin Jubair: Ibn 'Abbas was asked, 'How old were you when the Prophet died?' He replied.' At that time I had been circumcised.' At that time, people did not circumcise the boys till they attained the age of puberty. Sa'id bin Jubair said, 'Ibn Abbas said, When the Prophet died, [b]I had already been circumcised.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Asking Permission, Volume 8, Book 74, Number 313)"

KarmaMod:

quick question.

Cayon are you converting to Islam?

@Karma:

Lets pretend I did (scratching my head). From a Christian point of view, what would your reaction be? And what advice would you give to me.

Just asking eh

Cayon:

@Karma:

Lets pretend I did (scratching my head). From a Christian point of view, what would your reaction be? And what advice would you give to me.

Just asking eh

wouldnt bother me. would be curious to know why seeing you were raised otherwise though

.

she wasnt raised with him though

@Cayon

There are many good books about islam in simple language that could guide you towards understanding the Faith. If your interested i could pass you some of these and some were written by christian converts to Islam in the West.

I can see you have quite a few honest questions you would want an answer for.

Cayon:

@Karma:

Lets pretend I did (scratching my head). From a Christian point of view, what would your reaction be? And what advice would you give to me.

Just asking eh

It is natural to be concernced about peoples reaction when you take decisions like this but I would advise you to not base your decisions on peoples reactions rather base it on your convictions. No matter what you do in life people will never be satisfied with you. You are you and not them and that is what makes you you.

Where are you based Nigeria or Outside?