AllNaijaBlogger:
I wonder what kind of human being this sinnequanon is.

He doesn't believe in God and calls Him subjective. However, Sinnequanon denies being an atheist.

What is this guy's agenda?

To use the definition in wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5]

..it is clear to me that atheism is a materialist position, i.e it is one that holds that everything is accessible to science and governed by fixed laws.

Their contention is not whether people worship, but that the entities they worship are not real. To a materialist, the only things that are real are things that can be completely controlled or made up of completely controllable elements. Deities do not conform to their reality.

[size=16pt]The atheist position is that NO deities exist, because no non-material entities exist.[/size] It is a dogmatic position, because atheists believe in a system of "evidence" that accepts ONLY the material, and rejects anything else as "error", "noise", "coincidence" etc. It is a system that filters out non-controllable elements and then says that they don't exist.

The theist position is another extreme. It jumps from recognizing the existence of the non-material, to worshiping it.

[size=16pt]My position[/size] is that non-material entities exist. Spirit exists, soul exists etc. But a spirit only becomes a god to the people who choose to worship it. A spirit will be a god to a particular group of people because they have chosen to worship that spirit. Their god is real, but not universally a god. To others, it may be just another spirit (weak spirit requiring worship).

And this addresses the earlier question of why religion seems universal. It is indeed a human behaviour for humans to worship things they believe to be more powerful than them. This tends to include the unfamiliar, things at the boundaries of our experience. The act of worship is creative and makes the entity powerful over those that worship it.

asalimpo:


i dont see how death leads people of all types and status to perform a unanimous action even without external prompting or propaganda.

You don't see how the problem of death could influence EVERYONE to seek answers about it?

Everyone dies, my brother, even those who live in remote and isolated communities. This is a universal problem. Those with eyeballs can SEE that dead people stay DEAD.

Nobody knows what happens after death, and for many, that is an intolerable uncertainty. Our pattern seeking brain tries to find a matching pattern, even though it cannot see on the other side of the life barrier. So the first answer that tries to resolve this uncertainty is usually adopted.

Even if the characters in the story walk on water and multiply one agege bread into millions, your brain is attracted to the story more than the reality of absolute uncertainty.

"A sense of uncertainty about the future generates a strong threat or 'alert' response in your limbic system. Your brain detects something is wrong, and your ability to focus on other issues diminishes. Your brain doesn't like uncertainty - it's like a type of pain, something to be avoided. Certainty on the other hand feels rewarding, and we tend to steer toward it, even when it might be better for us to remain uncertain"

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-brain-work/200910/hunger-certainty

sinequanon:


To use the definition in wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism



..it is clear to me that atheism is a materialist position, i.e it is one that holds that everything is accessible to science and governed by fixed laws.

Their contention is not whether people worship, but that the entities they worship are not real. To a materialist, the only things that are real are things that can be completely controlled or made up of completely controllable elements. Deities do not conform to their reality.

[size=16pt]The atheist position is that NO deities exist, because no non-material entities exist.[/size] It is a dogmatic position, because atheists believe in a system of "evidence" that accepts ONLY the material, and rejects anything else as "error", "noise", "coincidence" etc. It is a system that filters out non-controllable elements and then says that they don't exist.

The theist position is another extreme. It jumps from recognizing the existence of the non-material, to worshiping it.

[size=16pt]My position[/size] is that non-material entities exist. Spirit exists, soul exists etc. But a spirit only becomes a god to the people who choose to worship it. A spirit will be a god to a particular group of people because they have chosen to worship that spirit. Their god is real, but not universally a god. To others, it may be just another spirit (weak spirit requiring worship).

And this addresses the earlier question of why religion seems universal. It is indeed a human behaviour for humans to worship things they believe to be more powerful than them. This tends to include the unfamiliar, things at the boundaries of our experience. The act of worship is creative and makes the entity powerful over those that worship it.

You are not making sense. As long as you dont't believe in God, you are an atheist.

So, do you believe in the bible? Jesus?

AllNaijaBlogger:



You are not making sense. As long as you dont't believe in God, you are an atheist.

So, do you believe in the bible? Jesus?

If you don't follow, we can't discuss.

Let's leave it there.

sinequanon:


If you don't follow, we can't discuss.

Let's leave it there.

May God have mercy on you. You seem a bit confused.

AllNaijaBlogger:



May God have mercy on you. You seem a bit confused.

Understatement of the year.

Weah96:


Understatement of the year.

More like euphemism

sinequanon:


To use the definition in wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism



..it is clear to me that atheism is a materialist position, i.e it is one that holds that everything is accessible to science and governed by fixed laws.

Their contention is not whether people worship, but that the entities they worship are not real. To a materialist, the only things that are real are things that can be completely controlled or made up of completely controllable elements. Deities do not conform to their reality.

[size=16pt]The atheist position is that NO deities exist, because no non-material entities exist.[/size] It is a dogmatic position, because atheists believe in a system of "evidence" that accepts ONLY the material, and rejects anything else as "error", "noise", "coincidence" etc. It is a system that filters out non-controllable elements and then says that they don't exist.

The theist position is another extreme. It jumps from recognizing the existence of the non-material, to worshiping it.

[size=16pt]My position[/size] is that non-material entities exist. Spirit exists, soul exists etc. But a spirit only becomes a god to the people who choose to worship it. A spirit will be a god to a particular group of people because they have chosen to worship that spirit. Their god is real, but not universally a god. To others, it may be just another spirit (weak spirit requiring worship).

And this addresses the earlier question of why religion seems universal. It is indeed a human behaviour for humans to worship things they believe to be more powerful than them. This tends to include the unfamiliar, things at the boundaries of our experience. The act of worship is creative and makes the entity powerful over those that worship it.

Atheists are not materialists by choice. It's the only rational option. Some atheists have been on this forum for YEARS!!

Not one Christian or Muslim has ever presented evidence which shows that spirits are real, or that they know what happens after death.

Take you for example, all you did here was use your fingers to type the words, "spirit exists." With evidence like that, who on this planet is lacking proof of ANYTHING?

sinequanon:


If you don't follow, we can't discuss.

Let's leave it there.

In other words, if he cannot agree with you, then you cannot discuss.
Clever.

There is no point anybody ranting and asking me questions at the same time.

If you wish to rant, then rant. My answer is, "each to his own".

if you want to have more than a one way "conversation" consisting only of you ranting, then stop ranting, mumbling to one another and acting immaturely. It is not by force that we talk. You are welcome to your views. I have no vested interest in changing them.

Weah96:


Atheists are not materialists by choice. It's the only rational option. Some atheists have been on this forum for YEARS!!

Not one Christian or Muslim has ever presented evidence which shows that spirits are real, or that they know what happens after death.

Take you for example, all you did here was use your fingers to type the words, "spirit exists." With evidence like that, who on this planet is lacking proof of ANYTHING?

Just laughing out loud watching this dude make a complete mess of himself.
What a pity.
Imagine, atheists are dogmatic because they choose to only accept things with evidence?

This guy is really really dumb.

BTW, is gravity a materialist thing?
Are ectromagnetic manifestations like ultraviolet, infrared, gamma rays, xrays, etc, materialist entities?
I just thought I should ask.

And also BTW, op,
I believe that spirits and other nonphysical things exists.
But they are interdimensional entities whose vibrational frequencies occasionally intersect with ours due to energy fluxes here and there that occur naturally or deliberately induced.
I do not push this as facts, just my own opinions.

Now, I wonder if I am still an atheist.

sinequanon:
There is no point anybody ranting and asking me questions at the same time.

If you wish to rant, then rant. My answer is, "each to his own".

if you want to have more than a one way "conversation" consisting only of you ranting, then stop ranting, mumbling to one another and acting immaturely. It is not by force that we talk. You are welcome to your views. I have no vested interest in changing them.

take it easy

Dapo777:


This is the first time I am going to agree with you,I think you are right,we atheists are living in self denial,we just want to feel safe,we are scared of being punished, why didn't I ever think about this.

For example

Take a look at some prostitutes, some of them chose not to believe in the risks of unprotected sex, So that they can fornicate well and feel safe from the consequences(Stds)of their actions.

The armed robbers and assassins and kidnappers, some of them stopped believing in the armed forces(police,swat,fbi etc) So that they can feel safe from being arrested and continue with their crimes.

The pilots,some of them stopped believing in empty fuel tanks, So that they can feel safe and fly their planes without having fuel in their tanks.

A zoo keeper simply stopped believing lions are carnivorous animals, So that he can feel safe and to avoid being eaten by the lions,so he entered the lions cage to feed it and came out safely because he stopped believing lions are carnivorous.

Likewise some people stopped believing in God,So that they can feel safe and avoid consequences(hell fire) and to sin freely as much as they want to.

You Ar right. We just want to avoid the consequences of our sins and continue in it,as the case is also with other examples.

We are just scared of hell That's why we refused to believe God,likewise the way the prostitutes are just scared of STDs So they refused to believe in contacting it through unprotected sex et al.

Wow it makes a lot of sense.

You somehow implied that belief has some effect on reality. This is not true.

Believing that you wont contract std doesn't mean you wont.

Believing that god and hell doesn't exist doesn't mean they dont, if they do.

Atheism is the lack of belief rather than another belief system.

Maybe you have troubles understanding atheism, that's your business, but next time, speak for yourself alone.

sinequanon:


To use the definition in wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism



..it is clear to me that atheism is a materialist position, i.e it is one that holds that everything is accessible to science and governed by fixed laws.

Their contention is not whether people worship, but that the entities they worship are not real. To a materialist, the only things that are real are things that can be completely controlled or made up of completely controllable elements. Deities do not conform to their reality.

[size=16pt]The atheist position is that NO deities exist, because no non-material entities exist.[/size] It is a dogmatic position, because atheists believe in a system of "evidence" that accepts ONLY the material, and rejects anything else as "error", "noise", "coincidence" etc. It is a system that filters out non-controllable elements and then says that they don't exist.

The theist position is another extreme. It jumps from recognizing the existence of the non-material, to worshiping it.

[size=16pt]My position[/size] is that non-material entities exist. Spirit exists, soul exists etc. But a spirit only becomes a god to the people who choose to worship it. A spirit will be a god to a particular group of people because they have chosen to worship that spirit. Their god is real, but not universally a god. To others, it may be just another spirit (weak spirit requiring worship).

And this addresses the earlier question of why religion seems universal. It is indeed a human behaviour for humans to worship things they believe to be more powerful than them. This tends to include the unfamiliar, things at the boundaries of our experience. The act of worship is creative and makes the entity powerful over those that worship it.

If spirits exist, if they are subject to laws in their own dimension, if they can reason logically, then they are material enough.

Everything that exist is material, but materials exist in different dimensions. That's the only difference.

What makes an atheist is a disbelief in an uncreated creator that affects human life.

Every other thing that can be shown to make logical sense is welcome by mainstream atheism, even if that is a creator. But mainstream atheism dont have faith in spirits. We do not need to.
If spirits exist, its great, but why should I believe. they do?

ooman:


You somehow implied that belief has some effect on reality. This is not true.

Believing that you wont contract std doesn't mean you wont.

Believing that god and hell doesn't exist doesn't mean they dont, if they do.

Atheism is the lack of belief rather than another belief system.

Maybe you have troubles understanding atheism, that's your business, but next time, speak for yourself alone.

Hahaha,and to think someone wont see the sarcasm in my post is unbelievable.

ooman:
If spirits exist, if they are subject to laws in their own dimension, if they can reason logically, then they are material enough.

That is a lot of ifs, followed by...

ooman:
Everything that exist is material, but materials exist in different dimensions. That's the only difference.

...your personal opinion, I guess, since you jumped from ifs to absolute statement.

ooman:
What makes an atheist is a disbelief in an uncreated creator that affects human life.

I prefer the definition in wiki.

ooman:
Every other thing that can be shown to make logical sense is welcome by mainstream atheism, even if that is a creator. But mainstream atheism dont have faith in spirits. We do not need to.

Circular. Your particular logical sense IS materialism. I am not bashing circularity or trying to dissuade anybody from it. I am just calling it what it is. If you are happy with materialism, which is fine, I don't see why any of you should feel offended by the fact of the circular logic.

And please nobody rant in reply. It is a waste of bandwidth.

ooman:
If spirits exist, its great, but why should I believe. they do?

I didn't say you have to.

In fact, I said, "each to his own", which caused your fellow atheists to start wowing and ranting.

sinequanon:


That is a lot of ifs, followed by...



...your personal opinion, I guess, since you jumped from ifs to absolute statement.



I prefer the definition in wiki.



Circular. Your particular logical sense IS materialism. I am not bashing circularity or trying to dissuade anybody from it. I am just calling it what it is. If you are happy with materialism, which is fine, I don't see why any of you should feel offended by the fact of the circular logic.

And please nobody rant in reply. It is a waste of bandwidth.



I didn't say you have to.

In fact, I said, "each to his own", which caused your fellow atheists to start wowing and ranting.

Do these spirits have any influence on you or mankind for that matter?

Dapo777:


Hahaha,and to think someone wont see the sarcasm in my post is unbelievable.

well you got me there.... I dont do very well with sarcasm generally....

Sinequanon,why are you always a case study for illogical concepts?...though it's amusing,your hatred of secular ideals is pathetic and hypocritical when you enjoy the fruits of materialism...empiricism and naturalism everyday.

sinequanon:


That is a lot of ifs, followed by...



...your personal opinion, I guess, since you jumped from ifs to absolute statement.



I prefer the definition in wiki.



Circular. Your particular logical sense IS materialism. I am not bashing circularity or trying to dissuade anybody from it. I am just calling it what it is. If you are happy with materialism, which is fine, I don't see why any of you should feel offended by the fact of the circular logic.

And please nobody rant in reply. It is a waste of bandwidth.



I didn't say you have to.

In fact, I said, "each to his own", which caused your fellow atheists to start wowing and ranting.

Indeed its a waste of bandwidth ever talking to you.
Bye now.

davien:
Sinequanon,why are you always a case study for illogical concepts?...though it's amusing,your hatred of secular ideals is pathetic and hypocritical when you enjoy the fruits of materialism...empiricism and naturalism everyday.

Secular ideals are good, which is why I question your religion of materialism.

Unfortunately, I can't find a confident and balanced atheist with whom to discuss the benefits, if any, of materialism. What is it about materialism that produces ranters? You don't get that impression from, say, Buddhism, do you?

If materialism, empiricism and naturalism were so great, you would not be struggling and ranting so hard to "justify" them. Your argument is the same one Christians make in the UK. They say that the country was founded on Christianity and you are "enjoying" the fruits of Christianity, every day (two words ). Suddenly, you can see the gaping hole in your argument (not that you are going to admit it). People who don't believe and have a better outlook have to make the best of a bad job -- that is not "enjoying".

sinequanon:


Secular ideals are good, which is why I question your religion of materialism.

Unfortunately, I can't find a confident and balanced atheist with whom to discuss the benefits, if any, of materialism. What is it about materialism that produces ranters? You don't get that impression from, say, Buddhism, do you?

If materialism, empiricism and naturalism were so great, you would not be struggling and ranting so hard to "justify" them. Your argument is the same one Christians make in the UK. They say that the country was founded on Christianity and you are "enjoying" the fruits of Christianity, every day (two words ). Suddenly, you can see the gaping hole in your argument (not that you are going to admit it). People who don't believe and have a better outlook have to make the best of a bad job -- that is not "enjoying".

Those bolded words make you even more hilarious than you are.... "religion of materialism"...lol
And I never ranted nor struggled to defend materialism....maybe in your delusions,calling somehow out as hypocritical is a "rant"

davien:
Those bolded words make you even more hilarious than you are.... "religion of materialism"...lol
And I never ranted nor struggled to defend materialism....maybe in your delusions,calling somehow out as hypocritical is a "rant"

Soon you guys will end up "leaving it there."