This has really bothered me so much and I think this is time for me to let out. Graphics designers show off their creativity in their designs. Web designers understand how to do it when it comes to layouts and other graphics relating practices. What about Web Developers, what do we show off?

you show off your incompetence.

Like former NL member who happened to be PHP programmer had been asked us for his review on web portal sites that he used to be show-off his PHP skills here.

Unfortunately NL members threw criticisms so negatively, but I support his PHP-based web portal sites fully 100% clean and functionally plus fastest data retrieval. Because of non-graphical layout on PHP-based web portal sites that ARE IMPORTANT KEYS for PC USERS keep coming back to visit sites over and over and over!

The main problem here NL DO NOT UNDERSTAND about the different types of websites CREATED THAT ARE BASED ON WHAT THE CLIENT WANT, not what the programmer want. Also lack of understanding the web development principles, concepts, usability and accessibility. That's all!

@uspry1
You are very correct. I was going through the whole section in a bid to reshuffle the section and this thread subject just came to my mind. You actually understand how I felt before this thread. Thanks for helping make it come real.

Let's see what others have to say here.

Web developers, aka programmers can't show anything off per se cos much of what they do is "behind the scenes". One can see a nice layout but they can't even view source to see how you coded your DB interactions. Therein lies the frustration with me some times.

I thought I was the only one being frustrated. When you tell people you programme, they will want to see what you have to show them. When they get to your PC and see code files littered around, they just get confused. Will be expecting to see something more tangible. Even when you tell them about the structure or how good your API is and will help him/her, it will still seem a mystery. Just kinda boring anyway but good for. What about you?

@yawa and OmniPotens

Can you both give me more clarification of what you mean by frustration on web development?

Do you mean DB integration issue? Forum installation/modification issue? Dynamic form creation issue? Web hosting/Domain registration issue? E-commerce/payment gateway integration issue?

uspry1,

What I mean is this: take someone who does just front end work and then go with them to someone who knows nothing about the web then both of you should describe what you do. Chances are the front end guy will say, "just visit www.whatever.com". Person checks it out and has an idea of what he does. How would you explain what you do to such a person? That's my point.

@yawa

I got it what you mean!

For all web developers:

Personally i usually sit down with someone, who do not know nothing about web page itself, with my illustrated visual storyboard displaying how does the web page work and i professionally answer all questions someone might ask. I was told that i was the best teacher to walk through step by step explaining the detail of how web page or integration work.

I also explain why "page is failed to load" or "specified syntax error" prompted on their hosted sites, all those things i can answer in order to gain client confident with me to rely on.

It is required lot of patience, communication and customer relation service skills you should have in web development business dealing with non-technical clients.

I think this is win-win situation on web development business.

@uspry1

As you can see, the web designer and graphics guy will easily show off something and a clients grasps with much ease compared to a web developer who will have to answer technical questions just as you have pointed out. Now you can see that it is more difficult kinda explaining yourself out as a web developer compared to your counterparts and their "this is a view of what I mean" thing.

He hee hee, developers go show codes. (Just Kidding)
What I actually do is show them the site but make them see beyond the physical appearance i.e show them the functionality - wat the site is capable of.
If for example it has an admin ends, i will simply login there and show how easy it is to manage the site from there.
For ex in cases I want to brag about my code skills with my mobile site, d core things I show are the sms/wappush api integration, d players (mp3, flv) coded with flash actionscript, xtreme js pages (profile px, my social line, my phonebk, etc) and the integration of web techs/standards (opensearch, auto generation of rss, etc) among other things.
In other words, since we cant show our codes (i'v heard the 'this is boring' a million nd one times), we can show what our codes can do. Sure though, d showoff is easier wt designers dan developers but if we can steal some time with who ever it may concern, we will be more appreciated.

i wonder what you guys will show !

"How would you explain what you do to such a person?"

I think most people are becoming aware that there is a lot going on in the background than what meets the eye and they are beginning to show more respect for functionality. The thing is they don't realize that both ends, in most cases are not done by the same person, or people.

Why not just tell the person - "here's what I do, I make www.whatever.com work the way it does. Without my work, it would not really exist".

If you go trying to explain how the code works and tell them about what you've done so far that is so marvelous and expect people to sing for you, you won't be that successful. We've got to accept that designers are the "face" of the industry in much the same way architects (and not the developers themselves) are the people who get praised when a really grand building is unveiled.
You cannot change years of stereotype in a blink. Today, most people still equate a web designer to an artist who actually draws and paints his work him/herself. If these roles are going to be better explained to a lay-person, it may be important to do it in-context. So while it may be easy for the designer to say I [b]designed [/b]www.flashywebsite.com, it will pay the developer to say I [b]created [/b]www.web2.0website.com (one with real functionalities), not some aesthetic masterclass.
I bet you the creators of Facebook don't have to identify themselves as developers to anyone.

Until PHP, java and other web programming languages become a normal speaking langauge for everyone, you will not be able to show your code off to just anyone, because it simply will not impress anybody. They don't understand it as it's not in their language. People may look at you and say "wow, you must be one brilliant soul", but deep down they are really asking "what the hell is he showing me. What does he want me to do with this" except this is done within the present context (at the time).

@pie1ect

Are saying that there is still nothing for us (web developers) to show? Just as you pointed out www.facebook.com for an example, does it mean people are looking at it just from the front end and not the back-end functionality involved?

see what you don't understand is,  an ordinary man out there will see a facebook and say " o boy i like this website ooo the designer try well well" with that they just conclude that it was just the job of the designer alone  so the designer take the credit both the developer and designer  of recent  i see some signature that says,  designed by : omini and Develop by smart  when someone sees that  he/she knows why that signature is there.

It's only peeps who don't have depth knowledge of web stuff woun't know that, before facebook could come up it has do with differents brains.

OmniPotens:

@pie1ect

Are saying that there is still nothing for us (web developers) to show? Just as you pointed out www.facebook.com for an example, does it mean people are looking at it just from the front end and not the back-end functionality involved?

There is something to show. But the question is who are you showing this stuff to? Are you trying to show your web-savvy client or colleague OR are you trying to show an everyday website user?

If you are going to show off anything, show it to people who will appreciate what they are seeing. Code is gibberish to the majority of web users and so it should be. People either respect what you do or they don't.
What we are really trying to get at is "how do we separate web designers from developers in the public's eye?"
I don't think that will be done anytime soon. Most people think websites are created by drag-and-drop, they are not aware there is a virtual brick and mortar element involved and they are entitled to think that way.

smartsoft:

see what you don't understand is,  an ordinary man out there will see a facebook and say " o boy i like this website ooo the designer try well well".

I think it's because they only interact with the front-end. If there were some kind of screen where they can see the files running around cyberspace trying to communicate with servers around the world, maybe they'd think differently but software development demands "layers of abstraction" and the layer the user interacts with (the interface) is what he comes to appreciate. To the everyday user of software, the interface is the software. As long as that interface allows him to accomplish tasks easily, then that's fine.

Bottom line, if you want to show your stuff then show it to people who'll appreciate it.

ehen oya cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooourt

Let me use a building project as an example. Iron benders are one of the most important artisans for any reinforced concrete building project. They are the people who bend and cut the iron rods to the specific shapes and sizes that will make them structuraly useful for the successful completion of the building. These rods provide the strenght for the skeleton of the building. If you muck them up then the builder is a time bomb.
When the building is built, the users and passers by only see the architectural master piece and praise the architect. They may even praise the painters and the bricklayers who plaster the building since their work can be visibly assessed by all and sundry. You don't get to see the Steel reinforcement except there is a major problem with the building. So the only people who get to appreciate them are probably the architects and structural engineers that they work with. The role of the structural engineers, quantity surveyors, etc are also not appreciated by the public.

I was once called upon to build a site for a company after designing a software for them. I wasn't too keen on working with the shody materials they presented so I let them contract it out to some web-designer (I heard he got 45K for the 10 page site). I however got to design one page for them which interfaces with the software I built for them. I simply copied one page from the existing ones, removed all unnescessary elements and all I needed was a text box and a submit button. I wrote my codes and got my 175k. The web site doesn't bear my name nor is it linked to me in any way (credit wise). My page was the barest in the site but that was where all the true functionality lies. The end user wont appreciate that but the company understood what I was about.

So what then do we boost we can show

If the target audience for the "showing" is the right one then they have the tech-savvy to know what to watch out for. This poster has aptly described it:

pie1ect:

There is something to show. But the question is who are you showing this stuff to? Are you trying to show your web-savvy client or colleague OR are you trying to show an everyday website user?

If you are going to show off anything, show it to people who will appreciate what they are seeing. Code is gibberish to the majority of web users and so it should be. People either respect what you do or they don't. . . .
. . . Bottom line, if you want to show your stuff then show it to people who'll appreciate it.