There is this pattern that I was used to and still observing in Christian circles especially in Nigerian Pentecostal/Evangelical circles.

It appears that one of the sole reasons why many people become Christians and remain so , is to avoid Hell Fire and enjoy the bliss of heaven by repenting of SIN and avoiding SIN on a personal level.

When I was in deeperlife the emphasis was always on SIN, worrying about it, been defeated by it, praying against it, condemning it in the lives of others , looking for what it is or is not etc. This was a truly dead religion in the most suffocating way. Sadly, I see this same pattern in many churches today.

The worrying thing is that the goal here is not to better mankind or improve the lot of our neighbours or relatives but for selfish purposes, i.e self preservation into eternal bliss and enjoyment with partial or total obliviousness to the suffering and pain around.

Surely there is something fundamentally wrong with this approach when our primary goal is to avoid a torturous hell and make heaven !!


Christian Hedonism is the pursuit of pleasure, gain and heaven by AVOIDING SIN and thereby pacifying a God that is always angry and ready to smite you for the slightest wrong you commit.

Let's compare this to the Gospel of Christ ;

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The true gospel was always about others not ourselves, it was about how to put the interest of others above and beyond our personal interests irrespective of the sacrifice or even suffering involved ( remember the good Samaritan ). It was based on LOVE , LOVE for ALL People both our worst enemies and best friends, it was based on us alleviating the burdens , pain and suffering around us and showing kindness, mercy and compassion to ALL Men.

Yet we see a conflict between the Christ approach and the Christianity approach, one is a personal ambition to make heaven by avoiding sin and the other is a selfless pursuit of the welfare and good of others not expecting any reward.

Could it be that the reason why Nigerian Christians in particular live in abject defeat and are easily overcome by sin and other vices , is primarily due to their pursuit of heavenly bliss by avoiding sin and financial gain by paying their tithes ?? This seems to me to be the main goal among these ones. Would I be wrong to say that Nigerian Christians are practising Christian Hedonism and first and fore mostly after their own welfare and happiness, that is why they can be the most harsh, rude and condescending people to ever relate with, do you agree ?

Go to MFM for example , it is about cursing enemies and not blessing them, go to Christ Embassy it is about positive thinking to the betterment of one's personal life, go to the redeemed it is about daddy GO pronouncing a blessing on one's life due to a seed that was sown, go to deeperlife life it is about immediate heaven after death due to a sinless life , the list is endless.

What happened to doing what is right for the sake of doing what is right and for the love of God and our neighbour , without expecting Any reward whatsoever ?


"…Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'' - Matthew 7:21-23

In these churches the common testimonies are not about how we paid someone's bills , how we temporarily housed a few homeless friends, how we paid the medical fees of someone we never met , how we forgave a large debt etc, it is always about how God has upgraded my life with a new or bigger house, a new or bigger car, a new partner , Job etc....basically all about me me me me me me me me.

And when they invite you to church , they do not help you learn how to live a contented and peaceful life, instead they lure you with the promise of how God can solve all your problems , heal all your sicknesses, punish your enemies and make you a happier and brighter person. This stinks !

Your thoughts are welcome.

I think this is very common in catholic churches,where you have to make a confession so as to be "spotless" again. Sadly,this has made many christians to lay emphasis on being free from sin..going to confession frequently so as to "make it" when death comes knocking.how sad,most christian goes to church nowadays not because they want to,but 'cause they want to make heaven.
Christ taught us to love our neighbours and I think that alone can lead us to his home [heaven] Sadly,most christians has forgotten about loving each other,alms giving,sheltering the homeless, e.t.c It's all about "spotless' soul now.,while not condeming that I'ld love it we can go back to the bible and understand what it really teaches.

Nigerian christianity is ......beyond description.

frosbel:
There is this pattern that I was used to and still observing in Christian circles especially in Nigerian Pentecostal/Evangelical circles.

It appears that one of the sole reasons why many people become Christians and remain so , is to avoid Hell Fire and enjoy the bliss of heaven by repenting of SIN and avoiding SIN on a personal level.

Shows Christians don't really love their God at all..pascal's wager in effect

Bro, your post is a bit long but I was able to scan through it. Nigerians have a way/habit of distorting whatever we receive or inherit from the Whites. The painful part is, we distort it to our own disadvantage.

Bro, I can relate with your experience cos I also USED to be a victim of what you just described. The version of Christianity practised here is really different from the one Christ planted and portrayed in the Bible..

Bro, I personally had to study the Pauline Epistles to understand what Christianity is all about, coupled with the Four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Actually, Christ's object for dying for our salvation wasn't entirely for us to make Heaven, though that's part of it. He died so we could be reconciled back to God, and enjoy that blissful relationship we foolishly lost at Eden. Heaven is a consequence of our love relationship with God.

Indeed, we have become more self centred and greedy, thanks to the Prosperity Gospel. Christianity isn't just about us. It's all about the welfare and progress of our neighbours. It's in our neighbours happiness that we have ours.

This is exactly why I have stopped going to church for some time.
Am just tired of this version of Christianity. It has been so corrupted that you hardly encounter the real life of God.

lastmessenger:
This is exactly why I have stopped going to church for some time.
Am just tired of this version of Christianity. It has been so corrupted that you hardly encounter the real life of God.

Dear, good morning. You're not alone. It's not an isolated case.

All you need do is take time to prayerfully study the Pauline Epistles. Take Jesus Christ, and just leave all the human additions out of it. That way, you can maintain your spiritual sanity.

dein77:


Dear, good morning. You're not alone. It's not an isolated case.

All you need do is take time to prayerfully study the Pauline Epistles. Take Jesus Christ, and just leave all the human additions out of it. That way, you can maintain your spiritual sanity.

Thanks a lot bro.

lastmessenger:
This is exactly why I have stopped going to church for some time.
Am just tired of this version of Christianity. It has been so corrupted that you hardly encounter the real life of God.

Bro you still need to be in the gathering of God's children as the bible instructed us. It will help you more than just staying out. What you ll do is to look out for such gatherings that have the qualities as mentioned by the OP and be fellowshiping with them.

Of a truth, what we see in churches these days are so annoying. A height of selfishness, greed, internal politicking, hatred, jealousy, disunity etc. Very annoying but let us not forsake the assembling of ourselves as instructed in Hebrews 10:25. We are meant to be an encouragement to one another when we assemble and blessing in general. Don't be discouraged. Personally I ve been looking for a group of people of likeminds whom I can be fellowshiping with from time to time. Not a corporate church as it is now that has Bishop, pastor, ministers etc. Just a simple gathering of the saints.

I hope to find such a group this year by God's grace.

lastmessenger:

Thanks a lot bro.

Bro, you're most welcome.

I would have stopped attending any Church if not my personal understanding of Jesus Christ. There are thousands out there who are barely hanging on. There are thousands out there who have become so disillusioned with the whole arrangements but are merely hanging on due to societal expectations and pressures.

We won't last long IF we do not have a personal conviction of what we're doing. Hence, we need the REVELATION that comes from the Word. It's revelations that fuel our love and passion for Jesus.

Apostle Paul had that encounter and he never recovered from it. He ran his race successfully to the end, and willingly offeredhis neck to the bloodthirsty NERO in the First Century.

Christianity was an endless struggle to me till I got a revelation of the Lord Jesus through the Word, and ever since, my life has never remained the same.

Take Jesus and run; do not confer with flesh and blood. Seek the revelation of the Lord Jesus. Seek it prayerfully. Seek it passionately.

All shall be in vain if we give up. All shall be in vain if we back out now.

May God bless you sir.

honourhim:


Bro you still need to be in the gathering of God's children as the bible instructed us. It will help you more than just staying out. What you ll do is to look out for such gatherings that have the qualities as mentioned by the OP and be fellowshiping with them.

Of a truth, what we see in churches these days are so annoying. A height of selfishness, greed, internal politicking, hatred, jealousy, disunity etc. Very annoying but let us not forsake the assembling of ourselves as instructed in Hebrews 10:25. We are meant to be an encouragement to one another when we assemble and blessing in general. Don't be discouraged. Personally I ve been looking for a group of people of likeminds whom I can be fellowshiping with from time to time. Not a corporate church as it is now that has Bishop, pastor, ministers etc. Just a simple gathering of the saints.

I hope to find such a group this year by God's grace.

Thanks a lot. I do hope to find such group that you are looking for. It will help a lot in this fight of faith.

dein77:


Bro, you're most welcome.

I would have stopped attending any Church if not my personal understanding of Jesus Christ. There are thousands out there who are barely hanging on. There are thousands out there who have become so disillusioned with the whole arrangements but are merely hanging on due to societal expectations and pressures.

We won't last long IF we do not have a personal conviction of what we're doing. Hence, we need the REVELATION that comes from the Word. It's revelations that fuel our love and passion for Jesus.

Apostle Paul had that encounter and he never recovered from it. He ran his race successfully to the end, and willingly offeredhis neck to the bloodthirsty NERO in the First Century.

Christianity was an endless struggle to me till I got a revelation of the Lord Jesus through the Word, and ever since, my life has never remained the same.

Take Jesus and run; do not confer with flesh and blood. Seek the revelation of the Lord Jesus. Seek it prayerfully. Seek it passionately.

All shall be in vain if we give up. All shall be in vain if we back out now.

May God bless you sir.

Again thanks a lot. We shall overcome.

lastmessenger:

Again thanks a lot. We shall overcome.

Amen. Yes we shall overcome.

frosbel:
... Christian Hedonism is the pursuit of pleasure, gain and heaven by AVOIDING SIN and thereby pacifying a God that is always angry and ready to smite you for the slightest wrong you commit.

Wrong, no, that is your twisted interpretation of and/or what "Christian Hedonism" means
- frosbel, please try to be objective in your post(s), not bitter and subjective

Let's compare this to the Gospel of Christ (i.e. the Good News of Jesus Christ)
and see if christians need to do good in the hope of future blessing(s)

"Sell your material possessions, and give the money to the poor.
Make yourselves wallets that don't wear out! a confused or disorderly mass or collection of things
Make a treasure for yourselves in heaven that never loses its value!
In heaven thieves and moths can't get close enough to destroy your treasure.
- Luke 12:33 GOD'S WORD® Translation

[Jesus continued,]
"I'm telling you that although wealth is often used in dishonest ways,
you should use it to make friends for yourselves.
When life is over, you will be welcomed into an eternal home
- Luke 16:9 GOD'S WORD® Translation


^{1,2,3,4 or all crowns}

The above are the five crowns christians can work for or strive after

They are the:
CROWN #1 - CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
(i.e. for all who eagerly look forward to Jesus Christ Our Lord appearing)

And now the prize awaits me -the crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return.
And the prize is not just for me but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing.
- 2 Tim 4:8 NLT

CROWN #2 - IMPERISHABLE CROWN
(i.e. for all with disciplined bodies or who exercised self-control in everything)

²⁵Each competitor must exercise self-control in everything.
They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one.
²⁶So I do not run uncertainly or box like one who hits only air.
²⁷Instead I subdue my body and make it my slave, so that after preaching to others I myself will not be disqualified.
- 1 Cor 9:25-27 Net Bible

CROWN #3 - CROWN OF LIFE
(i.e. for those who patiently endured trial, testing and temptation)

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,
which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
- James 1:12 KJ Bible,

Don't be afraid of what you are about to suffer.
The devil will throw some of you into prison to test you. You will suffer for ten days.
But if you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of life.
- Rev 2:10 NLT

CROWN #4 - CROWN OF GLORY
(i.e. for leaders who were not lording others or bossing others around but rather proved to be examples to the flock)

²Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you.
Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly
— not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God.
³Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example.
⁴And when the Great Shepherd appears, you will receive a crown of never-ending glory and honor
- 1 Pet 5:2-4 NLT

CROWN #5 - CROWN OF REJOICING aka SOUL WINNERS CROWN
(i.e. for those who led others to righteousness, as in converting from being a sinner to a saint)

For what is our hope or joy or crown of rejoicing?
Is it not you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
- 1 Thess 2:19 Jubilee Bible 2000


^{Crown with diadems}

Note that crowns can be synonymous with diadems
(i.e. one crown but with a potential of having up to 5 diadems consisting of righteousness, imperishable, life, glory and soul-winners diadems)
A good indication of the rank of enlisted men in the military is by how many stripes they have on
Similarly, in the Kingdom of Heaven, it's by their fruits crown (i.e. or the number of diadems) you shall know them

frosbel:
What happened to doing what is right for the sake of doing what is right
and for the love of God and our neighbour, without expecting any reward whatsoever ?

So frosbel, are christians to be disinterested in any of the above and not expect any reward whatsoever?
Viewpoints like that, is not what the scripture teaches.

frosbel:
Your thoughts are welcome

No offense but you have written a hodgepodge.
It is a confused and disorderly collection of things
It is a mishmash of Kant's moral theory (i.e. Immanuel Kant, the German philosopher) with the typical now getting-used-to frosbel subjective overtones

Frosbel will use every crafty tactics to attack the person of Christ,to attack christianity,to attack the jews,to attack pastors,to attack the church,to nullify the validity of the bible,and now to attack the subject of sin.People may not know your disguised intent but I think I'm beginning to figure out where you are going & who you are.
¤
N.B: For those that listen....it takes selflessness,discipline,self denial,virtue,integrity,suffering,sacrifice & many times love to avoid sin.So please avoid it no matter the available reason.Avoiding sin for God's reward IS NOT WRONG!!!

Anomnity:
Frosbel will use every crafty tactics to attack the person of Christ,to attack christianity,to attack the jews,to attack pastors,to attack the church,to nullify the validity of the bible,and now to attack the subject of sin.People may not know your disguised intent but I think I'm beginning to figure out where you are going & who you are.
¤
N.B: For those that listen....it takes selflessness,discipline,self denial,virtue,integrity,suffering,sacrifice & many times love to avoid sin.So please avoid it no matter the available reason.Avoiding sin for God's reward IS NOT WRONG!!!

All I see here is emotional tantrums and religious fanaticism.

Anyone with an objective mind will see through your rant as a desperate attempt to fight back at what you PERCEIVE is an attack on your delusions.

With the number of business centres churches in Nigeria, if only 1.5% of the members exhibited these traits you highlighted , the country Could have been a heaven on earth ;

"..it takes selflessness,discipline,self denial,virtue,integrity,suffering,sacrifice & many times love to avoid sin"

On the contrary to your statement however , what we see among your 'holy group ' is selfishness ( avoiding sin for reward , not for the love of others ), indiscipline, self aggrandizement especially by your so called MOG, vice, no integrity whatsoever, suffering ?? is this a joke, and sin aplenty .

You know why ? Because you guys don't know what Love means and the compelling reason for church attendance, tithe payment etc is for SELFISH REASONS. That's why Pastors sleep with their members and especially wives, that's why there is no difference between the level of sin in the 'world' and in the so called 'church' etc.

Read 1 John and 1 Corinthians 13.

Keep deceiving yourselves !!

BabaGnoni:

Wrong, no, that is your twisted interpretation of and/or what "Christian Hedonism" means
- frosbel, please try to be objective in your post(s), not bitter and subjective

Let's compare this to the Gospel of Christ (i.e. the Good News of Jesus Christ)
and see if christians need to do good in the hope of future blessing(s)

"Sell your material possessions, and give the money to the poor.
Make yourselves wallets that don't wear out! a confused or disorderly mass or collection of things
Make a treasure for yourselves in heaven that never loses its value!
In heaven thieves and moths can't get close enough to destroy your treasure.
- Luke 12:33 GOD'S WORD® Translation

[Jesus continued,]
"I'm telling you that although wealth is often used in dishonest ways,
you should use it to make friends for yourselves.
When life is over, you will be welcomed into an eternal home
- Luke 16:9 GOD'S WORD® Translation


^{1,2,3,4 or all crowns}

The above are the five crowns christians can work for or strive after

They are the:
CROWN #1 - CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
(i.e. for all who eagerly look forward to Jesus Christ Our Lord appearing)

And now the prize awaits me -the crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return.
And the prize is not just for me but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing.
- 2 Tim 4:8 NLT

CROWN #2 - IMPERISHABLE CROWN
(i.e. for all with disciplined bodies or who exercised self-control in everything)

²⁵Each competitor must exercise self-control in everything.
They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one.
²⁶So I do not run uncertainly or box like one who hits only air.
²⁷Instead I subdue my body and make it my slave, so that after preaching to others I myself will not be disqualified.
- 1 Cor 9:25-27 Net Bible

CROWN #3 - CROWN OF LIFE
(i.e. for those who patiently endured trial, testing and temptation)

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life,
which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
- James 1:12 KJ Bible,

Don't be afraid of what you are about to suffer.
The devil will throw some of you into prison to test you. You will suffer for ten days.
But if you remain faithful even when facing death, I will give you the crown of life.
- Rev 2:10 NLT

CROWN #4 - CROWN OF GLORY
(i.e. for leaders who were not lording others or bossing others around but rather proved to be examples to the flock)

²Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you.
Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly
— not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God.
³Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example.
⁴And when the Great Shepherd appears, you will receive a crown of never-ending glory and honor
- 1 Pet 5:2-4 NLT

CROWN #5 - CROWN OF REJOICING aka SOUL WINNERS CROWN
(i.e. for those who led others to righteousness, as in converting from being a sinner to a saint)

For what is our hope or joy or crown of rejoicing?
Is it not you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
- 1 Thess 2:19 Jubilee Bible 2000


^{Crown with diadems}

Note that crowns can be synonymous with diadems
(i.e. one crown but with a potential of having up to 5 diadems consisting of righteousness, imperishable, life, glory and soul-winners diadems)
A good indication of the rank of enlisted men in the military is by how many stripes they have on
Similarly, in the Kingdom of Heaven, it's by their fruits crown (i.e. or the number of diadems) you shall know them


So frosbel, are christians to be disinterested in any of the above and not expect any reward whatsoever?
Viewpoints like that, is not what the scripture teaches.


No offense but you have written a hodgepodge.
It is a confused and disorderly collection of things
It is a mishmash of Kant's moral theory (i.e. Immanuel Kant, the German philosopher) with the typical now getting-used-to frosbel subjective overtones

It was painful to read the rant you just 'spat out' , but let me reply in just a few sentences.

- Go back and read the article , it is about overcoming sin by imbibing LOVE , a genuine heart felt love not a superficial feeling
- By LOVE I mean doing things with the primary goal of promoting the happiness of others and not self.
- By LOVE, I mean fulfilling the greatest 2 commandments that Jesus proclaimed and promoted
- We are to be perfect as God who is perfect, hence LOVE should reign supreme in our lives


Let me give you some examples :

1. Joseph when tempted by Potiphar's wife did not overcome for the sake of reward but because of his LOVE for God and his Master.
2. When the children of Israel sinned and God's judgement was about to fall on them, Moses asked that his name be blotted out of the book of life for LOVE.
3. When Jesus surrendered his privileges and status, it was for LOVE , in fact the joy he was looking forward to was the REDEMPTION of Mankind.
4. Stephen died because of his LOVE for his people and his GOD.

If you BabaGnoni refuse to sleep with your neighbours wife because of a crown in heaven not because you love your neighbour, if you refuse to embezzle money not because of your love for the people it will impact but for a crown of life, if you refuse to kill not because of love ( hate may still be in your heart ) but because of a crown of live, THEN YOU MUST BE THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE since 6000 BC and most miserable of fellows.

Here is Paul's advice for you ;

"And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant.." - 1 Corinthians 13:3-4

Why don't you,Frosbel and honourhim start yours that is free of 'Christian Hedonism'?

I once heard TD Jakes preach on purpose and he went like your purpose may lie in that which offends you most. If it is poorly arranged music, may be God wants you to get there and sort it out.

Frosbel is fed up with 'traditional Christianity'. Start 'modern Christianity' free of delusions, lies,myths,trash and foolishness

lastmessenger:

Thanks a lot. I do hope to find such group that you are looking for. It will help a lot in this fight of faith.

vooks:
Why don't you,Frosbel and honourhim start yours that is free of 'Christian Hedonism'?

I once heard TD Jakes preach on purpose and he went like your purpose may lie in that which offends you most. If it is poorly arranged music, may be God wants you to get there and sort it out.

Frosbel is fed up with 'traditional Christianity'. Start 'modern Christianity' free of delusions, lies,myths,trash and foolishness

I have never imagined myself being a pastor. Meanwhile the possibility is there for me to be a pastor only if I can have the same encounter that Paul had with Jesus. Yes A real encounter where I can talk with The Lord and receive specific instruction from him.

frosbel:


All I see here is emotional tantrums and religious fanaticism.

Anyone with an objective mind will see through your rant as a desperate attempt to fight back at what you PERCEIVE is an attack on your delusions.

With the number of business centres churches in Nigeria, if only 1.5% of the members exhibited these traits you highlighted , the country Could have been a heaven on earth ;

"..it takes selflessness,discipline,self denial,virtue,integrity,suffering,sacrifice & many times love to avoid sin"

On the contrary to your statement however , what we see among your 'holy group ' is selfishness ( avoiding sin for reward , not for the love of others ), indiscipline, self aggrandizement especially by your so called MOG, vice, no integrity whatsoever, suffering ?? is this a joke, and sin aplenty .

You know why ? Because you guys don't know what Love means and the compelling reason for church attendance, tithe payment etc is for SELFISH REASONS. That's why Pastors sleep with their members and especially wives, that's why there is no difference between the level of sin in the 'world' and in the so called 'church' etc.

Read 1 John and 1 Corinthians 13.

Keep deceiving yourselves !!

Empty as usual.

THis is not about imagining. Souls are trapped in dead religions and traditions not to mention myths. You and frosbel are sitting on your bums instead of rescuing these poor souls

You honestly believe a pastor MUST encounter Jesus and receive specific instruction from him?
Is this Biblical?

lastmessenger:

I have never imagined myself being a pastor. Meanwhile the possibility is there for me to be a pastor only if I can have the same encounter that Paul had with Jesus. Yes A real encounter where I can talk with The Lord and receive specific instruction from him.

[quote author=vooks post=29631437]THis is not about imagining. Souls are trapped in dead religions and traditions not to mention myths. You and frosbel are sitting on your bums instead of rescuing these poor souls

Would that include you.

Frosbel,lastmessenger,honourhim
The world is perishing and you are here typing away junk. How heartless! Is that Christlike?
Start your church where your terms are doctrine. Hell is too offensive? Kick it out. Virgin birth is mythical? remove that too.
Clean the house of God of all hedonism. Save vooks from foolishness. Stick to whatever you think is the word of God. Sanitize the scriptures of all adulterations.

Of course am assuming you have enough brains to run a fellowship of two

frosbel:
.

.

vooks:
Frosbel,lastmessenger,honourhim
The world is perishing and you are here typing away junk. How heartless! Is that Christlike?
Start your church where your terms are doctrine. Hell is too offensive? Kick it out. Virgin birth is mythical? remove that too.
Clean the house of God of all hedonism. Save vooks from foolishness. Stick to whatever you think is the word of God. Sanitize the scriptures of all adulterations.

Of course am assuming you have enough brains to run a fellowship of two

What are you doing to yourself bro? Are you ok with the state of the church now? Too bad if you are.

And must you accuse me falsely to make your point? When did I say I don't believe in the virgin birth or hell fire? Pls watch your tongue o.

vooks:
THis is not about imagining. Souls are trapped in dead religions and traditions not to mention myths. You and frosbel are sitting on your bums instead of rescuing these poor souls

You honestly believe a pastor MUST encounter Jesus and receive specific instruction from him?
Is this Biblical?

I have told you that I am not a pastor and have never dreamt to be one. I have also told the conditions that will make me one.
There are different ways to make impact and just typing here could be a way to save one or two people.
Meanwhile I am still reading your book " synagogue of satan"

vooks:
Frosbel,lastmessenger,honourhim
The world is perishing and you are here typing away junk. How heartless! Is that Christlike?
Start your church where your terms are doctrine. Hell is too offensive? Kick it out. Virgin birth is mythical? remove that too.
Clean the house of God of all hedonism. Save vooks from foolishness. Stick to whatever you think is the word of God. Sanitize the scriptures of all adulterations.

Of course am assuming you have enough brains to run a fellowship of two

If you think we are typing junk bro Vooks then I recommend you do a reality check. In my opinion we are making a real impact

My broda,
What better way to solve this that beginning your own church on a clean slate free of all these 'errors'. Why be so critical of something you are equally capable of doing? Do it your way

honourhim:


What are you doing to yourself bro? Are you ok with the state of the church now? Too bad if you are.

And must you accuse me falsely to make your point? When did I say I don't believe in the virgin birth or hell fire? Pls watch your tongue o.

You have set such high conditions for serving God as a minister to ensure you never do it. Very smart of you I must say.
Start your own church and continue influencing the few people here. Joagbaje is a pastor and he still frequents NL; they are not mutually exclusive

Criticizing and bellyaching just massages your ego,assure you that you are right. Go ahead, start your own fellowship free of all the garbage you find in these churches bro

lastmessenger:

I have told you that I am not a pastor and have never dreamt to be one. I have also told the conditions that will make me one.
There are different ways to make impact and just typing here could be a way to save one or two people.
Meanwhile I am still reading your book " synagogue of satan"

vooks:

You have set such high conditions for serving God as a minister to ensure you never do it. Very smart of you I must say.
Start your own church and continue influencing the few people here. Joagbaje is a pastor and he still frequents NL; they are not mutually exclusive

Criticizing and bellyaching just massages your ego,assure you that you are right. Go ahead, start your own fellowship free of all the garbage you find in these churches bro

Again I have not been called into the minstry as a pastor. Therefore opening a church or fellowship is out of the equation.
Please tell how I am massaging my ego. Is it a lie that the church has derailed from the message of love. Is it not in Nigeria that a man of God charged gate fee for their cross over night? Are you not the same person who uploaded a book titles synagogue of satan? How am I massaging ego by telling the truth. Bro sometimes I don't understand you.

^^^

Best ignore Vooks, by their fruits you shall know them.

When you stand for the truth expect persecution from the religious crusaders.