Ok. Most Christians say that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word of God", and it is "through this faith that one is saved by grace". In short, Paul explictly told a man in Act 16 that the only thing he needed to do in order to be saved was to "believe in the Lord Jesus", and that's the "gospel of salvation" they preach 1 Cor 15:1-4.

So since one "has to hear" this gospel, and then "have faith in it" to be saved, what will happen to:

- Kids that died before the age their brain could develop to comprehend the problem of sin and death and the way out. (Remember the Bible condemns all as sinners, even right from when we were zygote in our mother's womb, for "we were conceived in sin"

- The deaf, dumb and blind who didn't have d chance to hear or read the gospel.

- Those who were grown ups and healthy, but who the gospel didn't get to (our fore fathers, for examples) ?

"whosoever that don't BELIEVE has the wrath of God abiding on him"

Will your loving 'unrepentable' God send them to hell?

Children from age 0_4 are exempted from judgement. Ask ur pastor.
As for those who died b4 christ/gospel came; Jesus went to d grave and preached to them, those who accepted are saved, those who didn't .....
As for the deaf, d gospel is usually relayed to them via writing or sign language.
#peace

agohmamuda:
Children from age 0_4 are exempted from judgement. Ask ur pastor.

Which should we follow, your pastor or the word of God? Foetus are sinners according to the word of God. Yes?

As for those who died b4 christ/gospel came; Jesus went to d grave and preached to them, those who accepted are saved, those who didn't .....

I didn't say before Christ came, man. After Christ's death, but before the gospel came. That is, those who lived after 30AD, but who the gospel didn't get to. Hell?

As for the deaf, d gospel is usually relayed to them via writing or sign language.
#peace

Why did you remove blindness from their defects?

What Will Happen To Those Who Didn't Hear The
Gospel? by Pr0ton ( m): 10:54pm



They will definitely Rott in Nairaland Forum







Do can I Continue Smoking

RicardozRichard:
What Will Happen To Those Who Didn't Hear The
Gospel? by Pr0ton ( m): 10:54pm



They will definitely Rott in Nairaland Forum







Do can I Continue Smoking

Lol.. Eccl 9:8-10 says, "whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, wither thou goes." You are safe!

Pr0ton:
Ok. Most Christians say that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word of God", and it is "through this faith that one is saved by grace". In short, Paul explictly told a man in Act 16 that the only thing he needed to do in order to be saved was to "believe in the Lord Jesus", and that's the "gospel of salvation" they preach 1 Cor 15:1-4.

So since one "has to hear" this gospel, and then "have faith in it" to be saved, what will happen to:

- Kids that died before the age their brain could develop to comprehend the problem of sin and death and the way out. (Remember the Bible condemns all as sinners, even right from when we were zygote in our mother's womb, for "we were conceived in sin"

- The deaf, dumb and blind who didn't have d chance to hear or read the gospel.

- Those who were grown ups and healthy, but who the gospel didn't get to (our fore fathers, for examples) ?

"whosoever that don't BELIEVE has the wrath of God abiding on him"

Will your loving 'unrepentable' God send them to hell?

Deuteronomy 29:29:
The secret things belong to the Lord
our God, but the things revealed
belong to us and to our children
forever, that we may follow all the
words of this law.

This underlines the fact that there are
'secret things', that we do not know
everything we would like to, but it also
places squarely on our shoulders the
responsibility for acting according to the
knowledge that we do possess.

The Justice of God;
Amoung the nature of God is justice,God will do justice accordingly.Isaiah tells
us that 'the Lord is a God of justice'.
He is also 'the compassionate and
gracious God, slow to anger, abounding
in love and faithfulness'.God will do justice to every situation.

“He that believeth on him is not
condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned
ALREADY, because he hath not
believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18,

You go to heaven because you believe in Jesus but you do not go to hell because you do not just believe but you are a sinner. Even if you did not herd the gospel but you have the knowledge of Good and evil, and you choose evil, it mean you are a sinner and you are going to hell.thank you.

Funny enough, malvisguy212 didn't answer my question

But wait, you mean if I don't believe but live a good life I'm gonna be saved?

Pr0ton:
Funny enough, malvisguy212 didn't answer my question

But wait, you mean if I don't believe but live a good life I'm gonna be saved?

God will do justice because it is one of his nature,infacte hundreds of year before Jesus preach the gospel to is, this is what God say;

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth
as witnesses against you that I have set
before you LIFE and DEATH, blessings and
curses. Now choose life, so that you and
your children may live

Here,many years before christ come,God advice us to choose life,this indicate that man will have the knowledge of Good and evil, God will judge him according to his deed.

Note:this are my opinion,remembers I quote Deuteronomy 29:29:
The secret things belong to the Lord
our God, but the things revealed
belong to us and to our children
forever, that we may follow all the
words of this law.

Proton if you herd the gospel and rejected it but live a good life (which is impossible) you cannot be saved.

Romans 2:14 - 16
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

in mormon Christianity you can preach to the dead and they'll be saved...

Pr0ton:


Which should we follow, your pastor or the word of God? Foetus are sinners according to the word of God. Yes?

Follow d word of God; I only said ask ur pastor for further xplanation and bible refrences.



I didn't say before Christ came, man. After Christ's death, but before the gospel came. That is, those who lived after 30AD, but who the gospel didn't get to. Hell?

Bros, na d same tin, those that died b4 d gospel came, where preached to in the grave by Jesus.

Why did you remove blindness from their defects?

because, blindness doesn't stop one from hearing.

malvisguy212:
Proton if you herd the gospel and rejected it but live a good life (which is impossible) you cannot be saved.

So consequently, and as you averred in your other posts, God will continue to show justice and therefore send little kids, those who didn't hear the gospel and the unable ones to hell, right?

Pr0ton:


So consequently, and as you averred in your other posts, God will continue to show justice and therefore send little kids, those who didn't hear the gospel and the unable ones to hell, right?

your question was not about infant salvation.but the same thing apply to them, as long as they have not herd the gospel,God will judge them base on there work, and all the Children which have not enter the age of reasoning will not be judge.

Febup:
Romans 2:14 - 16
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

There are two problems with your post

1. Conscience by no way grants God advantage over what people do and therefore judge them by that means especially when brought in the context of the requirements of the law, as there are so many laws the conscience is naturally unaware of; the law of marriage in Deut 24:5, for example.

2. When you read the whole of Rom 1 - 4, you'll realize that 2:14-16 is yet on its way to conclusion - the law is no longer required Rom 3:28.

agohmamuda:


because, blindness doesn't stop one from hearing.

You excluded my other rebuttals. Well, my op says "deaf, dumb and blind".

malvisguy212:
your question was not about infant salvation.but the same thing apply to them, as long as they have not herd the gospel,God will judge them base on there work, and all the Children which have not enter the age of reasoning will not be judge.

You contradicted yourself there. You said God will judge them (infants) based on their works, and later say God will not judge children that can't reason.

You forgot Rev 20:11-15 where the young and old receives judgement.

And if God should judge base on their works, then they are still going to hell because we are all sinners right from the time we were conceived.

davien:
in mormon Christianity you can preach to the dead and they'll be saved...

In Christianity, we are told that "the dead has nothing to do with the living."

We are even warned not to speak with the dead. Tough game there.

Pr0ton:


You contradicted yourself there. You said God will judge them (infants) based on their works, and later say God will not judge children that can't reason.

You forgot Rev 20:11-15 where the young and old receives judgement.

And if God should judge base on their works, then they are still going to hell because we are all sinners right from the time we were conceived.

no, you are not listening.
This is my post.
" your question was NOT about INFANT salvation .BUT the same thing apply to them, as long as they have not herd the gospel,God will judge them base on there work", this post is different from the op.the op is talking about thoes who died before they herd the gospel

malvisguy212:
no, you are not listening.
This is my post.
" your question was NOT about INFANT salvation .BUT the same thing apply to them, as long as they have not herd the gospel,God will judge them base on there work", this post is different from the op.the op is talking about thoes who died before they herd the gospel

Haha.. But infant salvation was included in the op, number 1 question for that matter.

Pr0ton:


Haha.. But infant salvation was included in the op, number 1 question for that matter.

ok. What is the different between infant salvation and thoes who have not herd the gospel? I believe there are similarities between them the ONLY difference is the age of reasoning which I explained in my earlier post. So I did not contradicts myself.

Pr0ton:
Ok. Most Christians say that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word of God", and it is "through this faith that one is saved by grace". In short, Paul explictly told a man in Act 16 that the only thing he needed to do in order to be saved was to "believe in the Lord Jesus", and that's the "gospel of salvation" they preach 1 Cor 15:1-4.

So since one "has to hear" this gospel, and then "have faith in it" to be saved, what will happen to:

- Kids that died before the age their brain could develop to comprehend the problem of sin and death and the way out. (Remember the Bible condemns all as sinners, even right from when we were zygote in our mother's womb, for "we were conceived in sin"

- The deaf, dumb and blind who didn't have d chance to hear or read the gospel.

- Those who were grown ups and healthy, but who the gospel didn't get to (our fore fathers, for examples) ?

"whosoever that don't BELIEVE has the wrath of God abiding on him"

Will your loving 'unrepentable' God send them to hell?

First we must know that Jesus is the only way.

It is not our evil works that make us sinners, it is being born of a woman in the image of the first Adam.

Psalm 51v5 -Behold, I was shapen (formed) in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

David said here that he was a sinner from conception; ever before doing any good or evil works.

Psalm 58v3 -The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

We are estranged (at odds or at enemity) with God from the womb.

So the most well mannered and behaved unbeliever is still a sinner and is deserving of the second death. Its not fundamentally about works but about the sin image of the first Adam we are all conceived and born in.

That is why Jesus is the only way to salvation; because He is the last Adam and only through faith in Him can we be delivered from the image of the first Adam and born again in the image of the last Adam.

John 14v6 -Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.

Acts 4v12 - Neither is there salvation in ANY OTHER: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED.

1Timothy 2v5 -For there is one God, [b]and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS.

So everyone, must compulsorily be saved through Christ; whether they lived before the law, under the law and after the law. All must pass through Christ to be saved and to be considered justified by the Father.

So the justice of God demands that every creature must hear the gospel! If they don't hear it in life, they will hear it in death.

And there is scriptural proof that the gospel can be preached even in death.

1Peter 4v6 -For this cause was the gospel preached also to them THAT ARE DEAD, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

This proofs that the gospel can still be heard in a state of death, for those who didn't hear in their lifetime.

Because everyone must hear the gospel and be given the privilege of accepting or rejecting God's offer of salvation in Christ; for God's judgment to be just.

And the early church also believed this doctrine. They believed that loved ones who died without hearing the gospel would hear it in death; and some even went ahead to get baptized on behalf of such loved ones in hope.

1Corinthians 15v29 -Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

So everyone must hear the gospel of Christ and be given the privilege of accepting and rejecting before they face the judgment.

If they don't hear in this life, for any reason. Whether because they lived and died before Jesus came, or before the gospel could get to them. Or because they died as infant or as stillborn, or as abortion or miscarriage; or before they were old enough to have an opinion about the gospel. Or maybe they were re.tarded and couldn't comprehend the message and make a decision on it.

Whatever the reason for which they didn't hear the gospel or have the privilege to respond to it in this life; they will hear it in death.

It is a scriptural truth and a held doctrine of the early church. God is a just God.

No one will go to the lake of fire that didn't REJECT God's offer of salvation in Christ Jesus.

And you cannot "reject" unless you were presented with the offer and given the privilege to accept or reject it.

Meaning ALL will hear it, in life or in death.

Shalom

.

@Ayoku777

Wow! Impressive explanation you've got there, though reveals more problems to the question at hand.

You qouted 1 Pt. 4:6 to explain how the dead have the opportunity to hear the gospel and then make a choice of either rejecting or accepting. There are problems here.

First, Eccl 9:5 says, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Clearly in that verse, a dead person is always unconscious, unable to make judgement and totally inactive. How them would they be able to hear the gospel and make decisions without making God's own words imperfect somehow?

Second, 1 Pt. 4:6 is apparently telling what Jesus did during his 3 days in hell. He preached to the dead, contradicting God's word. And no, He is not still in hell preaching. He has resurrected. And what will become of those who died after His resurrection?

Remember, "the righteousness of the righteous shall be his"

Pr0ton:
@Ayoku777

Wow! Impressive explanation you've got there, though reveals more problems to the question at hand.

You qouted 1 Pt. 4:6 to explain how the dead have the opportunity to hear the gospel and then make a choice of either rejecting or accepting. There are problems here.

First, Eccl 9:5 says, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Clearly in that verse, a dead person is always unconscious, unable to make judgement and totally inactive. How them would they be able to hear the gospel and make decisions without making God's own words imperfect somehow?

Second, 1 Pt. 4:6 is apparently telling what Jesus did during his 3 days in hell. He preached to the dead, contradicting God's word. And no, He is not still in hell preaching. He has resurrected. And what will become of those who died after His resurrection?

Remember, "the righteousness of the righteous shall be his"

This is what happens when human knowledge is being paraded as God's word, will always have gaps which can not be filled.

justlove91:

This is what happens when human knowledge is being paraded as God's word, will always have gaps which can not be filled.

Nah. They aint gaps that can't be filled. They are just bullshits that Christians aint ready to give up on!

Pr0ton:


In Christianity, we are told that "the dead has nothing to do with the living."

We are even warned not to speak with the dead. Tough game there.

The book of mormon is what mormon later-day christian saints' follow...

davien:
The book of mormon is what mormon later-day christian saints' follow...

Oh. I see. They are pretty nice.

Pr0ton:
@Ayoku777

Wow! Impressive explanation you've got there, though reveals more problems to the question at hand.

You qouted 1 Pt. 4:6 to explain how the dead have the opportunity to hear the gospel and then make a choice of either rejecting or accepting. There are problems here.

First, Eccl 9:5 says, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Clearly in that verse, a dead person is always unconscious, unable to make judgement and totally inactive. How them would they be able to hear the gospel and make decisions without making God's own words imperfect somehow?

Second, 1 Pt. 4:6 is apparently telling what Jesus did during his 3 days in hell. He preached to the dead, contradicting God's word. And no, He is not still in hell preaching. He has resurrected. And what will become of those who died after His resurrection?

Remember, "the righteousness of the righteous shall be his"

That verse in Eccl 9v5 is talking about man's fate and experience in the context of his earthly existence, not spiritual existence.

The same chapter, just two verses before said:

Eccl 9v2 -All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; ....as is the good, so is the sinner;

Obviously, this verse is not talking in terms of the spiritual. We all know that the spiritual fate of the righteous and good is not the same with that of the unrighteous and the sinner.

It is only in terms of earthly challenges and life's ups and downs that the good and the sinner share experiences. This is the context in which the Ecclesiastes is talking about death.

In earthly context, the dead know not anything, neither have they any reward;

But obviously, in spiritual context, the dead are alive, animate and conscious; and they have a reward for their works.

So Eccl 9v5 does not contradict 1Peter 4v6; context is what differs. Ecclesiastes was talking about death in terms of the earthly fate of the dead, while 1Peter was describing the spiritual reality of the dead. And they are both correct.

Now to your second point about 1Peter 4v6. The verse said:

1Peter 4v6 -For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The emphasis was not on who did the preaching or even on whether the audience were those who died before or after Christ's resurrection. The point was on that the gospel is preached also to them that are dead.

First; you made an errorneous assumption as if Jesus must remain in hell to be able to preach to the spirits. That's your assumption. Jesus doesn't have to be in hell to able to preach.

Secondly, there is nothing that says only Jesus can preach the gospel in death. Actually, it is the Holy Spirit that testifies of Christ (John 15v26).

Even when Jesus himself went to preach; He went by the Spirit.

1Peter 3v18-19 -...being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the SPIRIT: BY WHICH ALSO He went and preached...

Jesus went and preached by the Spirit, and even now after His resurrection; the Holy Spirit is still very much around, testifying of Christ to men -both in life and in death.

So, that Jesus is risen and ascended doesn't mean that the dead can no more be preached to. The Spirit by which Jesus went and preached is still very much around.

Shalom

@Ayoku777

The writer of Eccl. writes about the end of man after his lifetime here on earth. He also included "then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." This is the type of death he stretches out through out his book; that the dead, be it earthy or spiritual, remains inactive till when "God shall bring every work to judgement" Eccl 12:14.

Even, the writer of Daniel speaks of those "that sleep in the dust of the earth" who "shall awake" to judgement. Dan 12:2.

And Jesus in John 5:25 says that a time comes when "the dead will hear his voice and live" unto judgement.

So it contradicts 1 Pt. 4:6.

It is crystal clear in the 1 Pt. 3:18-19 you quoted, where Jesus "preached unto the spirits in prison", that Jesus was the one preaching to the dead in 1 Pt. 4:6.

And I'm yet to see where the Bible says that the Holy Spirit continues to preach to the dead after the resurrection of Jesus (when he left the place of the dead, hell/shoel)

Pr0ton

What is this thread about really?

Because I don't want to be drawn into an endless debate.

Is this about whether people sleep in death or their spirit and souls stays animate and conscious?

Or its about whether there are contradictions in scriptures?

Or whether the gospel can be preached after death or not?

I don't like when people pretend to ask questions; yet they've already made up their mind about what they believe and are closed minded to any opinion.

It makes the whole thing seem like a waste of people's time. Like you're just itching for a debate, or for comments on your thread.

You asked to know what happens to those who die without hearing the gospel. I showed you from scripture how that the gospel can be preached even in death.

Whether its by Jesus, or by the Holy Spirit, or by Angels. One thing is clear, the gospel can be heard after death.

Let's not turn it into a debate of who does the preaching. It looks like a digressional tactic to keep the argument open.

Ayoku777

I asked what the fate of those who weren't able to hear the gospel before they died - young kids, those who died before the gospel could reach, the deaf, dumb and blind - would be. You replied by quoting 1 Pt 4:6 changing the tenses (in your interpretation) to support your idea that the dead have the opportunity to listen to the gospel.

I contended that 1 Pt 4:6 speaks of Jesus three days stay activity in the grave, and not a continual process. The verse states it clearly that he preached and not he preaches. But you kept on trying to distort the verse in order to suit your answer. Apparently you had no answer to provide, except getting verses distorted to get around the question.

I also objected your idea of dead people being able to make decisions after death by quoting verses that disprove your point. Eccl 9:10 makes it clear that we all have one life. We should use it wisely for nothing happens after death... All these disprove your answer - you actually didn't provide an answer