The coming of Jesus as predicted several times in the bible is much later than it's supposed to be according to Jesus himself and his early disciples.  Here's what the bible has to say about this:

Source: http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm

Jesus’ Predictions:

1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming.  Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”.  This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead.  Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.

"But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'"  (Matthew 26:64 NAB)
Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'"  (Mark 14:62 NAB)

2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.  (Matthew 23:36 NAB)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.  "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.  In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB)

3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon.  Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”  Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers.  The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense.  Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.

4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes.
Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Mark 13:30-31 NAB)

He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power."  (Mark 9:1 NAB)

5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.

"Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27 NAB)

6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)

7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will occur within the lifetime of his listeners.  He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one.  Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred.  Luke 21:25-33

"There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves.  People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand."  He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees.  When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Luke 21:25-33 NAB)

[Editor's note:  Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel:  "When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  (Matthew 10:23 NAB)]


John’s Predictions

John believes “the time is at hand,” and that the things that he writes about in Revelation will “shortly come to pass.”  Revelations 1:1-3

9) John quotes Jesus (1900 years ago) as saying he will come “quickly.” Revelations 22:7, 12 & 20

10) John thinks he is living in “the last times.”  He “knows” this because he sees so many antichrists around.  1 John 2:18

11) John says that the antichrist was already present at the time 1 John was written.  1 John 4:3

12) John quotes Jesus (1900 years ago) as saying he will come “quickly.”  Revelations 3:11, 22:7, 12 & 20


Paul’s Predictions

13) Paul thought that the end was near and that Jesus would return soon after he wrote these words.  Philippians 4:5

14) Paul believes he is living in the “last days.”  Hebrews 1:2

15) Paul believed that Jesus would come “in a little while, and will not tarry.” Hebrews 10:37

16) In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Paul stated: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord.”  Paul shared the delusion, taught by Jesus, in that he expected to be snatched up bodily into heaven with other saints then living, who would, thus, never taste death. The use of “we” clearly proves as much.  It is difficult to deny that Paul was certain that the end of the world was coming in the lifetime of his contemporaries.


Other Prophecies About Armageddon:

17) James thought that Jesus would return soon.  James 5:8

18) Peter wrongly believed that he was living in the “last times” and that “the end of all things is at hand.”  1 Peter 1:20 & 4:7

Source:  http://www.evilbible.com/end_times.htm

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From these passages, it's obvious that Jesus wanted his early disciples believe that he was going to come back in their lifetimes or at worst the lifetimes of their children.  Despite that, they have been dead for almost 2000 years and Jesus is yet to return "in the coulds of heaven".  So why have people not abandoned Christianity?

ko i yewon, yi o ye won lola!

By the way, as a muslim I do believe that Jesus (AS) will come back. Not as anything that he was never was. He will come back as one of the signs of the last period of man on this earth. he will kill the Antichrist (the accursed), he will enter the Muslim place of worship in jarusalem at the time of sunset. He will join the Muslim prayer and pray behind the Imam. Even though be was given the position to lead the prayer, he will refuse it because that was not his position.

If Saul/Paul (the accursed) was not a prophet but a teacher, then i wonder what is it that makes the christians enter his writing in the Bible, when the same christians believe that the Bible is exclusively the word of God. This entry of Paul's writing therefore diestroy the hypothesis of truly and strictly Word of God. This also lead to the truth of the Qur'an which says that the Bible is corrupt. I wonder how many similar entries in substance and in form are in the Bible.

Second Coming Of Jesus: Almost 2000 Years Late?

God knows best , . . . .

@olawale, i am not critisciinf ooo, just want i think i should point out.

"what qualifies a particular writing to be included in the bible?"

Does every writing in the bible have to be from a prophet to qualify entry in the bible?.


if you were looking into paul alone, what about david?, he wrote psalms and he was a king, solomon was a king, he wrote the songs of solomon, job was an upright man, he wrote the book of job, he was never a prophet. Luke was a doctor, and a disciple, never a prophet.

@naijacutee, thanks for that insight, it was a good one.

@gbengaijot; You can have any entry from any classification of entities, however do not say the whole Bible is strictly the word of God since you have just stated in your statement that others different from Prophets had entries in the Bible. I believe that Jesus performed his duties without shorking it, there was no reason for the entries of paul who was not a prophetto have been considered as word of God. Really, Paul work should never be in the same league as that of Jesus (AS). So that you know, we in Islam regard David, Solomon, Job (AS) as prophets and you in christianity may not.

may i ask?, what qualifies someone as a prophet?.


The bible is the inspired word of God. It was written under inspiration of the holyspirit. every words written was for a specific purpose. paul wrote the book of corinthians as a letter to the people of corinth. likewise he wrote to other people in colosia, macedonia, e.t.c.

David was a poet, and each time God does something miraculous, he write poetry in praises unto God.

I guess you have the notion that every word has to be written by a prophet to get qualification to be included in the bible.

The bible is a collection of books that teaches, inspires and explain the concept of God and his Mind.

The people that wrote the collections wrote it at different times at different place under different circumstances. Paul wrote some of his letters in jail, under house arrest, John wrote the book of revelation on an island, sometime after he escaped been fried in palm oil, David wrote psalms in the comfort of his palace, God wrote the 10 commandments himself with hands of fire, Daniel wrote the book of daniel as a eunuch in babylon. they all happened at different times with spaces that strecthed over hundreds of years.

I still don't understand what you are stressing. is it that a book has to be written by a prophet for it to be included in the bible?.

What justification for that  do you have?

How did u know that that is God's standard for a selection?


I believe we are all equal in the sight of God. Just as elisha was, so was moses, so was deborah, so was paul e.t.c they are all equal before God. They only had different assignment.

The bible is complete, it talks about love, prophecy, chastitity, teaching, poetry, miracles, law, e.t.c. God is not a one way traffic. that is why he allowed the variation. I wonder what it will look like if the bible does not talk about a particular aspect of your life. christianity is a way of life, not a religion.

if you are in a specific faith and it talks about religious things rather than it affecting your way of life, then i consider it incomplete!


I noticed in your first post that you said paul/saul (was accursed), dont you think that amounts to judging him?, remember what the bible says, "to them that accept him, to them he gave the power to become sons and daughters of God".

Paul was a persecutor, he repented and he was redeemed of his sins, he bore the consequences of his sins because he was persecuted more than he persecuted.


so what are we talking about?

It is impossible to deny that all those verses point to an early second coming. Jesus said so many times and in so many ways that some of the people listening to him at that time would not die until he returned in the clouds. That was what they understood by "soon" in those days. So why has "soon" become 2000 years?

@gbengaijot; Thanks my brother. The greatest quality that a prophet has is that God commissions him. All prophets are males, there is no single female. Prophethood ended over 1400 years ago, with muhammad, the Makkan/madinan as this last prophet and the seal of messengership. Prophet may not be messenger, but a Messenger is always a prophet. There were about240000 prophets starting from Adam our father and ending with Muhammad (AS). From this group, ther were less than 314 messengers. From this group there were about 13 who were given written revelations. The best known amoung these messengers were Noah, Ibrahiim, Moses, Jesus son of mary and Muhammad. Moses was given the Torah, David was given the Sabur, Jesus was given the good news/Injil and muhammad was given the Qur'an. There were physical signs of prophethood, it includes the seal/stamp of prophethood in the back of the ptophet, this mark is between the shoulder blades of the prophet. You need to read the life hitory of muhammad to appreciate this.

Paul/Saul did not have any of these. Most importantly, each succeding prophet does not say anything that is tantamously opposite to his predecessor. For example, Jesus stated that he came to fulfill the laws of Moses and not even ajot of it will be disregarded by him. The law of Moses stated that God is one and nothing is like HIM. Paul on the other hand goes against Jesus in this regard postulation three in one hypothesis, and equating God to man nature. There was no single prophet, including jesus who said this horrible thing that came from pauline movement, after jesus was lifted to heaven.

Paul and his cronies began to bastardize the ministry of Jesus and the concept of trinity crept in and in time became acceptable to the Pagan Europe.

You will agree with me that if you were to tell me something which I recorded for the purpose of repeating it and following the instructions it contained. If at a later date, my friend were to have listened to it, but did not copy it down word for word, if then he reads what he wrote down,you happen to have heard it, will this new wording/piece be your dictated statement to which was record. No, because it will not be it word for word. It may be be so in idea, but it has lost its originality in wording. Then if this was the corripted even further that anew idea was injected into it, will it still remain your recorded statement. the answer is no. For if you play back your recorded message and this new writing is read, you will see the changes are clear and easy to see. Now the bible had gone through these two stages as I illustrated them above. Furtehr, what we now have as present day bible are offshoots from this greater corrupted manuscript, if I could call it that. Compare the Catyholic Bible with the Protestant's. They are very dissimilar. Further you can compare many protestant Bibles, you will see difference based on time it was printed, every so many decades and whatever that specific group believes in. KJV/NKJV, American version and others. Which is the real Bible.


If I could not change your statement, how then some people or someone change the word of God and still acceptable as completely the word of God. Can you imagine that person giving you a subjective instructions and passing them as from God. What a confusion and going astray. If the purity of the Book is the only yardstick for going to paradise or Hellfire, imagine the billions of souls that are already perished . I believe that this is the greatest yardstick, for if you do not have a pure book, then all instructions from impure book, regardless of how much you try and sincere about it, it is a gamble. Unfortunately, people who are presently alive, a good portion do not see this, plainly.

@Seun; Yes Jesus son of mary (AS), will come back. His arrival on earth is one of the signs of the end of the world. However, jesus can not know when that time is, it is entirely the decision of the Lord of the world. Jesus did his job, performed his duties excellently, but it not include predicting exactly when he is coming back.

@ Seun

From these passages, it's obvious that Jesus wanted his early disciples believe that he was going to come back in their lifetimes or at worst the lifetimes of their children. Despite that, they have been dead for almost 2000 years and Jesus is yet to return "in the coulds of heaven". So why have people not abandoned Christianity?

Good question.

It is the question I always ponder in terms of black people especially, why do we not look for our original spirituality, the spirituality of our ancestors? why do we settle for something that really has done us no good?

No harm intended towards the Christians but I think I have a right to say what I am saying. I used to be a Christian for 22 years. It has now been 10 years and growing that I no longer claim Christianity.

I left Christianity alone when I began to discover that it was plagiarized African religion which was now covered in a "Eurocentric Motive".

Now I just believe in God and oh, did I mention that I also believe in the Goddess

I have just found my soulmate!I felt and acted exactly the same way.
Christianity,i discovered,is trying to alienate me from my african self and is trying very hard to turn me into something that i can never be,a pseudo judeo-european. So i decided to drop it like a bag of bad potatoes and try to regain my african spirituality.I became a much more fullfilled person ever since.
Christianity is very anti african,and that to me is unacceptable.

Sista:

@ Seun


Good question.

It is the question I always ponder in terms of black people especially, why do we not look for our original spirituality, the spirituality of our ancestors? why do we settle for something that really has done us no good?

No harm intended towards the Christians but I think I have a right to say what I am saying. I used to be a Christian for 22 years. It has now been 10 years and growing that I no longer claim Christianity.

I left Christianity alone when I began to discover that it was plagiarized African religion which was now covered in a "Eurocentric Motive".

Now I just believe in God and oh, did I mention that I also believe in the Goddess

Or Jesus christ never made those predictions at all during his ministery.Those predictions could all easily have been interpolations by dubious gospel writers."Pious fraud" it was called in those days,and it was rampant in the early days of christianity.

Seun:

It is impossible to deny that all those verses point to an early second coming. Jesus said so many times and in so many ways that some of the people listening to him at that time would not die until he returned in the clouds. That was what they understood by "soon" in those days. So why has "soon" become 2000 years?

If that's the case, then how do we know that those same pious gospel writers didn't insert other things like into the bible that aren't real. Things like, um, the alleged ressurection?

You people are just reveling in ignorance.

@Seun,

I would have chosen not to contribute anything on this thread, but I realise I will be debating with you for the very first time.  I also suppose you are not given to blind condemnation of the scriptures as some are wont to do, and as such i will oblige you with some answers.

Before I go to the scriptures, let us go to the words of the man called Muhammad compiled in the compendium called the Koran.  Since that is your final authority, I will give you something to ponder upon.  According to your faith, the Gospels and the Torah were sent from God.  However, you have all claimed contrary to the Koran, that God's Word has been changed.  Going by your book, God's Word can never be changed under any circustance, and so I wonder how the Gospels and the Torah have now suddenly become corrupted by men.  Here are your references from the Koran:

006.115
YUSUFALI: The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.
PICKTHAL: Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR: And the word of your Lord has been accomplished truly and justly; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.


006.034
YUSUFALI: Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers.
PICKTHAL: Messengers indeed have been denied before thee, and they were patient under the denial and the persecution till Our succour reached them. There is none to alter the decisions of Allah. Already there hath reached thee (somewhat) of the tidings of the messengers (We sent before).
SHAKIR: And certainly messengers before you were rejected, but they were patient on being rejected and persecuted until Our help came to them; and there is none to change the words of Allah, and certainly there has come to you some information about the messengers.


010.064
YUSUFALI: For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.
PICKTHAL: Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter - There is no changing the Words of Allah - that is the Supreme Triumph.
SHAKIR: They shall have good news in this world's life and in the hereafter; there is no changing the words of Allah; that is the mighty achievement.


So who is the liar now?  You or your Koran? I will address the points you mentioned from the Bible as you give me the answer to the one I just raised from the Koran. That will be on subsequent postings however.

@jungulabi

I have just found my soulmate!I felt and acted exactly the same way.
Christianity,i discovered,is trying to alienate me from my african self and is trying very hard to turn me into something that i can never be,a pseudo judeo-european. So i decided to drop it like a bag of bad potatoes and try to regain my african spirituality.I became a much more fullfilled person ever since.
Christianity is very anti african,and that to me is unacceptable.

Jungulabi, I am very happy for you that you were able to excape. Christianity is very unhealthy for black people.

I am sure that a lot of false guilt has been lifted and you are now a free man.

Just think about all the Africans that came to America on the good ship. They were indoctrinted with Christianity through force by fear. This is why I can't understand why Christianity is running so wild and Rampant in Africa right now as we speak. I thought Africans in America had already done the suffering for all black people as far as religion goes but the suffering and smiling does not seem to be going away, the fear is so strong. I can't believe that missionaries are still putting their claws into African people in an attempt to rid them completly of what they alaready had, an African spirituality. Do you see how black Christians react when anyone is not saying something good about Christianity? they act like they want to kill you. It's very scary.

I also believe that Islam is not the answer either. After all there wouldn't be Africans pryaing to Allah if it wasn't for the Arab invaders who also enslaved African people and also indoctrinated them. Any religion that one recieves in the name if Death, rape, stealing and fear is not natural.


I am very happy for you. Spiritual liberation is true freedom.

@Sista,

Perhaps you misunderstand Christianity or you are mixing with the wrong crowd. Or maybe, your thought of what Africa is and should be is just plain unrealistic. Culture, like everything else is subject to change and the african culture is no exception. The European culture you talk about has been and will continue to be dynamic, so when you insists that as Africans, we are meant to do things a certain way, like it's been done over the years, I just see that as absolute unrealistic.

Christianity is not about a change of your culture. Rather, christianity teaches the diversity of people and of nations and the fact that God made it to be so. Christianity is all about faith, forgiveness and love; or rather righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. All these can be expressed within the confines of our culture. The only thing that christianity is againsts will be anything that is diametrically opposed to the elements I mentioned above.

Christianity is not new in Africa as you may be wont to believe. Rather, it dates back to the very beginning of christianity in the day of pentecost where the bible records that ll nations and tongues were presnet at teh advent of the church. 3,00 people were saved on that day and it includes men of all nations. However, the first individual conversion to christianity by an African is recorded in Acts 8:27-39. Please note that this was a decision of choice and it is written that the Eunuch went his way rejoicing. This is what christianity does. it gives joy where none exists and a reconcialiation of man to God. Here is the refernce passage for your perusal:
8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

@TayoD:
Why are you quoting the Quran to prove a point to me. I am not a muslim, I'm an atheist.

An excerpt.

The Second Coming - When is it?
Perhaps no event in the history of the world has been more anticipated than the Second Coming. Every generation of believers, including believers in the New Testament, has strongly believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 tells us, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come." Some are mistakenly frightened that they have missed the Second Coming. Others doubt that it will ever occur, "They will say, 'Where is this "coming" he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation" (2 Peter 3:4). So, we must avoid both extremes: (1) believing that the Second Coming has already occurred, and (2) believing that the Second Coming will never occur.

Many Bible teachers have made guesses as to when the Rapture and Second Coming will occur. They have all been incorrect. The Bible declares, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" (Matthew 24:36). The Bible describes several events which must occur before the Second Coming (Matthew 24:4-29; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation chapters 6-18). So, we are to anticipate the Second Coming, but have a biblical understanding of it. We are not to set dates and times, but live our lives as if it could happen any day, any moment. Matthew 25:19-21, "After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them…His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'"

The mere fact that there are atheists attest to the veracity that there is indeed God for without the existence of God there would have been no need for some individuals struggling to disprove his existence.

In other words there would be no atheists without God.

Having said that,I have heard of people give their lives to Christ on their death bed,I have never heard of any one renounce Gods existence or dissociate from their Christian faith and embrace atheism on their death bed.
That must tell us something.

Studies also show that most atheists had a traumatic experience in life before turning so ranging from abuse to you name it.

The Bible says of that hour we do not know,it would be sad for one to find out on the day of judgement.
Only Christ can open the eyes of people to his ways and his word.
I'll hate to say,lets wait and see,now is the time of salvation,tomorrow may be too late.

Studies also show that most atheists had a traumatic experience in life before turning so ranging from abuse to you name it.

Can you provide us with links to these purported studies?

In other words there would be no atheists without God.

This is not a smart thing to say. This is like saying that
- There'll be no non-muslims if Islam isn't the truth.
- There'll be no non-believers in aliens if aliens are not real.
- There'll be no muggles if the witchcraft in Harry Potter wasn't real.
- THere'll be no Star Wars haters if "the force" was not real.

@Seun,

I'm surprised you claim to be an atheist. I can almost swear I read you refer to muslims somewhere on nairaland as your fellow brothers, which I translated to mean you are a muslim. Please pardon my mistake and leave the Quranic quotes to the other muslims justling for visibility here to provide clarity.

I'll treat the issues you raise as I have the time.

@TayD

I can almost swear I read you refer to muslims somewhere on nairaland as your fellow brothers, which I translated to mean you are a muslim. Please pardon my mistake and leave the Quranic quotes to the other muslims justling for visibility here to provide clarity.

You do not have to be a Muslim in order to refer to Muslims as your fellow brethren. Nor do you have to be a Christian in order to refer to a Christian as your fellow brethren. All you have to do is love people and accept them as they are.

i will answer this the day seun writes something negative about islam. obviously the guy is scared :p

I don't believe in Islam, but I don't feel qualified to criticize the religion because I know nothing about it.

@TayoD; It is true that the Qur'an confirms that God sent down the Torah to Moses, the Injil to Jesus. It is true that the Qur'an confirms that God's words are unchanging. It therefore proves that no one is permitted to change it, even the receivers themselves.

In this case it is not permissable for Jesus to change whatever he received from God, word for for. It is also true that even Jesus can not change whatever was sent to Moses, before Jesus was raised up to minister to the children of Israel. This was one of the reasons Jesus declared that not even a jot of what came down to Moses will be changed.

A jot is even smaller and less important than a single word. If Jesus was this precise about preserving the body of revelation, in the exact wording that came down to Moses, then I want you to consider which is the true BIBle;

Why do you have so many different Bibles; for example the Catholic Bible is diffirent from the protestants.

Then there are the othodoxy denominations. What happens to the ever so often revisions, in every few generations. There are so many bible that i wonder will the real Bible please stand up.

It is because from the time that Paul enter the ranks of the Original companions of Jesus (AS), that the corruptions, indeed in actions and in word, as it satisfies the new Intent of the writer. In this case Paul being the chief of them, with the hypothesis of Trinity, a paganic concept, etc.

Mr seun you said you are an atheist,
Well everybody is free to believe or belie anybody/anything.
You also said you know nothing about Islam, then, pls try to go to this site, atleast to have more knowledge about your chosen way and Islam.

I wish you goodluck

http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refutation_atheism.php

Mr. Seun, your first statement that Jesus made a prediction to Caiaphas is wrong. There is never such a statement in the Bible. Well, pretending to be an atheist, you'd do anything to disprove Jesus the Lord. All said in the spirit of sportsmanship.

@olabowale,

First, let me attest that the Koran is not confirming anything about the Gospels nor the Torah, rather, it tries to copy what the Bile says from hearsay, and it did a fantastic job of muddling it all up.

Your explanation of the Koranic verse I quoted above is so intellectually hollow that not even a 2 year old will find it acceptable. Your Koran says God's Word CANNOT be changed, and not IS NOT ALLOWED to be changed as you have chosen to misinterprete it. It says none can alter the decrees of Allah, not none is permitted to alter his decrees. In other words, you need to provide us with something more reasonable as you all have claimed that the Koran can only be understood in the realm of logic and intelligence. Your explanation do not pass any logic and intelligence criteria.

And by the way, Jesus did not say not even a jot of the Torah is permitted to be changed. Rather, He said not a jot of the law and the prophets will go unfulfilled. Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Why are you misquoting and deliberately changing what the scriptures have said? I guess you take your cue from Mohammed, and he is the one that has deceived the whole lot of you.

We do not have so many different Bibles. Rather we have different translations of the same Bible. May I ask you, how come you guys also have difrent Korans in the sense of YUSUFALI, PICKTHAL and SHAKIR just to name a few? Arent you being hypocritical when you make such a statement? The different translations are just what it is: translations. The king James Bible for instance is almost anachronistic in its style of presentation because of the language. We do not speak such English today, and it is only logical that other translations will be required. Each translations has its style with respect to the language and that is only the difference. All are translated from the same manuscripts but the style of delivery is just the only difference. For instance, here are other translations of that same Matthew 5:18. If you are honest, you will see that the message is the same, only the delivery is different.

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. (New Revised Standard Version)

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. (American Standard version)

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (New Internationsal Version)

I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved. (New Living Translation).

So tell me, isnt the message the same in all? And while you are at that, please explain the difference in the Koranic translations by YUSUFALI, PICKTHAL and SHAKIR.

You people have claimed so much that the Bible is changed and I wonder, can you guys just provide us the real Bible? I ask, at what point was it changed? Where are the ones available before that time? Obviously, Mohammed must have believed the Bible available at his time was authentic for him to have said in Surah 29.046
YUSUFALI: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."
PICKTHAL: And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
SHAKIR: And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One, and to Him do we submit.

You all are just as confused as your Prophet.

I'll deal with the issue of Paul subsequently.

@Seun,

May I ask you what translation of the Bible you are using? Is the NAB refering to the New American Version or the American Standard Version. I need to have this clarified. But in any case, you have misread those verses because Jesus' prophecy wasn't directed at Caiaphas or any one in the room for that matter. Jesus just mentioned an event that will happen in the future, and He didn't say when exactly and who exactly will see those.

However, we know Jesus is on the right hand of the majesty on high now. Stephen for one saw this when he was matyred and we know of John's revelation in the Book of Revelation. You have only tried to play with the use of words in stating your point, but I have no doubt that if Jesus was refering to Caiphas, He would have mentioned His name. Jesus was never a coward.

Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34
Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36 NAB)

You are deliberately making the wrong conclusions Seun. Matthew 23:36 is not saying anything at all about Jesus second coming. It was all about how isreal mis-treated God's prophets and the fact that that generation will suffer the consequences of such action. It seems to me you are just plain mischievous by this obvious twisting of facts.

Matthew 24:34 on the other hand refers to the genration that witnesses the parable of the fig tree as mentioned in verse Matthew 24:32. Again, you just need to read the Bible in context before picking phrases that suits your agenda.

I hope you will go back and repost or rephrase your questions again as you have only suceeded in showing a lack of scholarship and understanding of biblical terms. I will repsond as much as I feel your postings deserve a response.

Your posting does not deserve a response. You didn't notice that I didn't compose the first post.