johnydon22:


Did you miss the part i said "according to the [size=20]biblical fabel[/size]
so biblical fable now sounds like an online article to you?

biblical means from the bible.. (Now i am beginning to doubt you comprehension ability)

Bible is based purely on history unlike that useless and contradictory book called Qur'an. To assert that the historical book of God in history, how we can use history to relate with the present and the promise of living with Him in future is a book of myth, you have to have absolute knowledge of those for and against, then drawing logical conclusion due to weakness of those pro Bible to assert it as a complete fable. I am not asking for much, all I demand for is that after juxtaposing between the two views, what are the things you have that makes you assert that Bible is a complete and undiluted myth which is not different from Krishna and Zeus?

Misogynist2014:
Bible is based purely on history unlike that useless and contradictory book called Qur'an. To assert that the historical book of God in history, how we can use history to relate with the present and the promise of living with Him in future is a book of myth, you have to have absolute knowledge of those for and against, then drawing logical conclusion due to weakness of those pro Bible to assert it as a complete fable. I am not asking for much, all I demand for is that after juxtaposing between the two views, what are the things you have that makes you assert that Bible is a complete and undiluted myth which is not different from Krishna and Zeus?

Of course their are not different... If i may ask what are you reasons for asserting krishna and zeus are myths?

Abuamam:


I have heard all the contemptible arguments by people who look at Islam in a very cursory way, from as far back as the 19th century. These assertions have no basis in objective reality. They merely served to pretend contempt for Islamic values through misrepresentation and deliberate falsehood.
One reason why I like religious discussions with atheists is that; as oppossed to people of aggressive missionary bent, they purport to look at events from a logical or reasonable viewpoint. If you wish to prove the 'contradictions', and 'falsehoods' in the Quran, by all means open a thread to do so. However, do so using reason and logic based on how Muslims really understand their religion, and not how you believe they understand it; nor using stale viewpoints from ageing philosophers who knew almost nothing about the religion they love to vilify.

André Servier[edit ]
André Servier was an historian who lived in French Algeria at the beginning of the 20 th
century.
Islam is Christianity adapted to Arab mentality, or, more exactly, it is all that the unimaginative brain of a Bedouin, obstinately faithful to ancestral practices, has been able to assimilate of the Christian doctrines. Lacking the gift of imagination, the Bedouin copies, and in copying he distorts the original. Thus Musulman law is only the Roman Code revised and corrected by Arabs; in the same way Musulman science is nothing but Greek science interpreted by the Arab brain; and again, Musulman architecture is merely a distorted imitation of the Byzantine style.
Former Muslim turned to atheist Ibn Warraq writes:
We are told that [Abraham] was born in Chaldea, and that he was the son of a
poor potter who earned his living by making little clay idols. It is scarcely
credible that the son of this potter went to Mecca, 300 leagues away in the
tropics, by way of impassable deserts. If he was a conqueror he no doubt aimed
at the fine country of Assyria; and if he was only a poor man, as he is depicted,
he founded no kingdoms in foreign parts. — Voltaire
For the historian, the Arabs are no more the descendents of Ishmael, son of
Abraham, than the French are of Francus, son of Hector. — Maxime Rodinson
It is virtually certain that Abraham never reached Mecca. — Montgomery Watt
The essential point ... is that, where objective fact has been established by
sound historical methods, it must be accepted. — Montgomery Watt
According to Muslim tradition, Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, the cube-like
structure in the Sacred Mosque in Mecca. But outside these traditions there is
absolutely no evidence for this claim - whether epigraphic, archaelogical, or
documentary. Indeed Snouck Hurgronje has shown that Muhammad invented the story
to give his religion an Arabian origin and setting; with this brilliant improvisation
Muhammad established the independence of his religion, at the same time
incorporating into Islam the Kaaba with all its historical and religious associations for
the Arabs. (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim [Prometheus Books, Amherst NY
1995], p. 131; bold emphasis ours)
Finally, Islamicist Alfred Guillaume notes:
"... there is no historical evidence for the assertion that Abraham or Ishmael was ever
in Mecca, and if there had been such a tradition it would have to be explained how all
memory of the Old Semitic name Ishmael (which was not in its true Arabian form in
Arabian inscriptions and written correctly with an initial consonant Y) came to be
lost. The form in the Quran is taken either from Greek or Syriac sources." (Alfred
Guillaume, Islam [Penguin Books Inc., Baltimore, 1956], pp. 61-62)

johnydon22:


Of course their are not different... If i may ask what are you reasons for asserting krishna and zeus are myths?

You are an atheist, you neither believe in Krishna nor Zeus. I am the one asserting that one of your myths is actually not a myth like others. You're the one to tell me if you've removed Krishna and Zeus from the list of your myths and why?

Misogynist2014:
You are an atheist, you neither believe in Krishna nor Zeus. I am the one asserting that one of your myths is actually not a myth like others. You're the one to tell me if you've removed Krishna and Zeus from the list of your myths and why?

Nope i didn't. . . i just want to know your reason for classifying them as myths?

Still on page 2 going to page 3 and no single muslim wanna drop d prove dat Abraham built d "kabba" of kogi
Lol, where re d imamz and d alfaz of dis section
Dey shld come out from their holes!

Misogynist2014:
André Servier[edit ]
André Servier was an historian who lived in French Algeria at the beginning of the 20 th
century.
Islam is Christianity adapted to Arab mentality, or, more exactly, it is all that the unimaginative brain of a Bedouin, obstinately faithful to ancestral practices, has been able to assimilate of the Christian doctrines. Lacking the gift of imagination, the Bedouin copies, and in copying he distorts the original. Thus Musulman law is only the Roman Code revised and corrected by Arabs; in the same way Musulman science is nothing but Greek science interpreted by the Arab brain; and again, Musulman architecture is merely a distorted imitation of the Byzantine style.
Former Muslim turned to atheist Ibn Warraq writes:
We are told that [Abraham] was born in Chaldea, and that he was the son of a
poor potter who earned his living by making little clay idols. It is scarcely
credible that the son of this potter went to Mecca, 300 leagues away in the
tropics, by way of impassable deserts. If he was a conqueror he no doubt aimed
at the fine country of Assyria; and if he was only a poor man, as he is depicted,
he founded no kingdoms in foreign parts. — Voltaire
For the historian, the Arabs are no more the descendents of Ishmael, son of
Abraham, than the French are of Francus, son of Hector. — Maxime Rodinson
It is virtually certain that Abraham never reached Mecca. — Montgomery Watt
The essential point ... is that, where objective fact has been established by
sound historical methods, it must be accepted. — Montgomery Watt
According to Muslim tradition, Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, the cube-like
structure in the Sacred Mosque in Mecca. But outside these traditions there is
absolutely no evidence for this claim - whether epigraphic, archaelogical, or
documentary. Indeed Snouck Hurgronje has shown that Muhammad invented the story
to give his religion an Arabian origin and setting; with this brilliant improvisation
Muhammad established the independence of his religion, at the same time
incorporating into Islam the Kaaba with all its historical and religious associations for
the Arabs. (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim [Prometheus Books, Amherst NY
1995], p. 131; bold emphasis ours)
Finally, Islamicist Alfred Guillaume notes:
"... there is no historical evidence for the assertion that Abraham or Ishmael was ever
in Mecca, and if there had been such a tradition it would have to be explained how all
memory of the Old Semitic name Ishmael (which was not in its true Arabian form in
Arabian inscriptions and written correctly with an initial consonant Y) came to be
lost. The form in the Quran is taken either from Greek or Syriac sources." (Alfred
Guillaume, Islam [Penguin Books Inc., Baltimore, 1956], pp. 61-62)

the story of Abraham and Ishmael building the Kaaba wasn't invented nor did it start with the Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW),it has been part of Arab history all along

Who built d kabba of kogi
Still no answer from a "wise" islamist

johnydon22:


Nope i didn't. . . i just want to know your reason for classifying them as myths?

I classify them as myth because you classify them as myth.

mujahid1339:
the story of Abraham and Ishmael building the Kaaba wasn't invented nor did it start with the Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW),it has been part of Arab history all along

Part of Arab history or Arab mythology?

Why do the Jewish scholars not make mention of this 'fact'?

Is there any reference to Abraham being in Mecca made by non-Muslim or non-Arab authors?

mujahid1339:
the story of Abraham and Ishmael building the Kaaba wasn't invented or start with the Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW),it has been part of Arab history all along

Even if you have no proof is this statement, you still believe it's true, isn't it?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he
be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of
his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and
lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they
received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.

Misogynist2014:
I classify them as myth because you classify them as myth.

Meaning you do not have any tangible reasons for classifying them as mythology.. So to say..

I wonder how you classify fables from other civilizations and cultures as mythology including ur own native mythology and dismiss them but cry tooth and nail to assert jewish mythology is true... Lol.. funny folks tho.

Misogynist2014:
Bible is based purely on history unlike that useless and contradictory book called Qur'an. To assert that the historical book of God in history, how we can use history to relate with the present and the promise of living with Him in future is a book of myth, you have to have absolute knowledge of those for and against, then drawing logical conclusion due to weakness of those pro Bible to assert it as a complete fable. I am not asking for much, all I demand for is that after juxtaposing between the two views, what are the things you have that makes you assert that Bible is a complete and undiluted myth which is not different from Krishna and Zeus?

Forrest Gump is a story based around real events but that does not mean that the tale itself is true.

Anyway, much of the Bible is nonsense, the claim that the whole world was flooded is one.

There may be records of a 'Herod' but no other source records a massacre of children.

There are several other fallacies in the Bible, proof that it is no better than the Koran.

mmsen:


Forrest Gump is a story based around real events but that does not mean that the tale itself is true.

Anyway, much of the Bible is nonsense, the claim that the whole world was flooded is one.

There may be records of a 'Herod' but no other source records a massacre of children.

There are several other fallacies in the Bible, proof that it is no better than the Koran.

On what are you basing your stories? Isn't it on articles read online? After reading these articles, what are the loopholes you found in its rebuttals?

mmsen:


Part of Arab history or Arab mythology?

Why do the Jewish scholars not make mention of this 'fact'?

Is there any reference to Abraham being in Mecca made by non-Muslim, non-Arab authors?

i said Arab history.Jewish scholars?with their favouritism,who made themselves the only son of Abraham,still there are mentions of Mecca/Bakka in the bible and even the zamzam spring.and the bible even talks of the burial of Abraham by both Ishmael and Isaac so to say they weren't in contact before then is simply improbable.

Misogynist2014:
On what are you basing your stories? Isn't it on articles read online? After reading these articles, what are the loopholes you found in its rebuttals?

The same accusations that you have made against the Koran can and have been made against the Bible. Both Muslims and Christians fall back on faith because of a complete lack of credible evidence.

If you wish to talk about Biblical fallacies then open a new thread, this thread is about the Kaaba.

mujahid1339:
i said Arab history.Jewish scholars?with their favouritism,who made themselves the only son of Abraham,still there are mentions of Mecca/Bakka in the bible and even the zamzam spring.and the bible even talks of the burial of Abraham by both Ishmael and Isaac so to say they weren't in contact before then is simply improbable.

Both Islam and Christianity came after Judaism and borrowed from it.

None of this takes away from the fact that there is a complete dearth of evidence.

johnydon22:


Meaning you do not have any tangible reasons for classifying them as mythology.. So to say..

I wonder how you classify fables from other civilizations and cultures as mythology including ur own native mythology and dismiss them but cry tooth and nail to assert jewish mythology is true... Lol.. funny folks tho.

What I find unique in the Bible is its applicability, let me tell you a short story.
Some time and times ago, I went to a man, who organizes tutorials in which I also once attended to help me out on my admission, there met I one of my former teachers, I greeted him, he answered with a sad tone, he didn't know I wasn't there for tutorials, he went back to the whiteboard and wrote on it words of encouragement which I knew was directed at me. This did not deter me from acting as one who was told to sit among them, I acted as if I was there for tutorials (was a English language teacher), I listened patiently, asked questions, noted mistakes and even answered questions. I was later called by the man, and after leaving, went for my bag. The teacher on seeing this asked where I was going, wondering if I wouldn't finish the lesson, I smiled and replied him, 'I have my admission Sir, only came here for a little help from him'. He was surprised, howbeit, I kept my calm, seeing the disbelief on his face and that of the students that this guy that sat as one of us is actually above us! I waved at them and left with my head held high! I could easily have taken the back seat and playing games, which might have gotten me the fury of the teacher, who would have sent me out with much shame for me to contend with.
" 7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they
chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.
8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a
more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou
begin with shame to take the lowest room.
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade
thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in
the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall
be exalted."

Misogynist2014:
What I find unique in the Bible is its applicability, let me tell you a short story.
Some time and times ago, I went to a man, who organizes tutorials in which I also once attended to help me out on my admission, there met I one of my former teachers, I greeted him, he answered with a sad tone, he didn't know I wasn't there for tutorials, he went back to the whiteboard and wrote on it words of encouragement which I knew was directed at me. This did not deter me from acting as one who was told to sit among them, I acted as if I was there for tutorials (was a English language teacher), I listened patiently, asked questions, noted mistakes and even answered questions. I was later called by the man, and after leaving, went for my bag. The teacher on seeing this asked where I was going, wondering if I wouldn't finish the lesson, I smiled and replied him, 'I have my admission Sir, only came here for a little help from him'. He was surprised, howbeit, I kept my calm, seeing the disbelief on his face and that of the students that this guy that sat as one of us is actually above us! I waved at them and left with my head held high! I could easily have taken the back seat and playing games, which might have gotten me the fury of the teacher, who would have sent me out with much shame for me to contend with.
" 7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they
chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.
8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a
more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou
begin with shame to take the lowest room.
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade
thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in
the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall
be exalted."

..chai.. LoL

Misogynist2014:
André Servier[edit ]
André Servier was an historian who lived in French Algeria at the beginning of the 20 th
century.
Islam is Christianity adapted to Arab mentality, or, more exactly, it is all that the unimaginative brain of a Bedouin, obstinately faithful to ancestral practices, has been able to assimilate of the Christian doctrines. Lacking the gift of imagination, the Bedouin copies, and in copying he distorts the original. Thus Musulman law is only the Roman Code revised and corrected by Arabs; in the same way Musulman science is nothing but Greek science interpreted by the Arab brain; and again, Musulman architecture is merely a distorted imitation of the Byzantine style.
Former Muslim turned to atheist Ibn Warraq writes:
We are told that [Abraham] was born in Chaldea, and that he was the son of a
poor potter who earned his living by making little clay idols. It is scarcely
credible that the son of this potter went to Mecca, 300 leagues away in the
tropics, by way of impassable deserts. If he was a conqueror he no doubt aimed
at the fine country of Assyria; and if he was only a poor man, as he is depicted,
he founded no kingdoms in foreign parts. — Voltaire
For the historian, the Arabs are no more the descendents of Ishmael, son of
Abraham, than the French are of Francus, son of Hector. — Maxime Rodinson
It is virtually certain that Abraham never reached Mecca. — Montgomery Watt
The essential point ... is that, where objective fact has been established by
sound historical methods, it must be accepted. — Montgomery Watt
According to Muslim tradition, Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, the cube-like
structure in the Sacred Mosque in Mecca. But outside these traditions there is
absolutely no evidence for this claim - whether epigraphic, archaelogical, or
documentary. Indeed Snouck Hurgronje has shown that Muhammad invented the story
to give his religion an Arabian origin and setting; with this brilliant improvisation
Muhammad established the independence of his religion, at the same time
incorporating into Islam the Kaaba with all its historical and religious associations for
the Arabs. (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim [Prometheus Books, Amherst NY
1995], p. 131; bold emphasis ours)
Finally, Islamicist Alfred Guillaume notes:
"... there is no historical evidence for the assertion that Abraham or Ishmael was ever
in Mecca, and if there had been such a tradition it would have to be explained how all
memory of the Old Semitic name Ishmael (which was not in its true Arabian form in
Arabian inscriptions and written correctly with an initial consonant Y) came to be
lost. The form in the Quran is taken either from Greek or Syriac sources." (Alfred
Guillaume, Islam [Penguin Books Inc., Baltimore, 1956], pp. 61-62)

Mere speculation.

johnydon22:


..chai.. LoL

At least I have something to gain believing a myth with so much knowledge and experience to gain. What do you gain being an atheist?

Misogynist2014:
At least I have something to gain believing a myth with so much knowledge and experience to gain. What do you gain being an atheist?

So you wanna tell me you cant figure out what is right or wrong or what you want on your own

Hhmmm thats quite sad tho..

Abuamam:


Mere speculation.

Which of these two statements do you expect to be spoken by GOD?

By the night as it cancels [the light]; by the day as it appears in glory; by the Creation of male and female.


"I swear by Myself, says the LORD."

As proof of their position, Muslims refer to genealogies written around 770-775 A.D. by Ibn Ishak.
What he has written is simply not true.  Ishmaelite tribes, especially the tribe of Nebaioth from which, according to Ibn Ishak, Mohammed is said to have come, were nomadic tribes who lived in the Sinai and Fertile Crescent deserts. These tribes disappeared after the 7th century B.C.
Mohammed's family was a Sabaean Yemeni family, while the Ishmaelites, who lived in the deserts of the Fertile Crescent, became extinct many centuries before Mohammed's family left Yemen.

Historians say that the family of Mohammed was a  family which lived in Saba-Yemen. In the 5th century A.D., Qusayy Bin Kilab, the 8th ancestor of Mohammed, gathered an alliance of many Yemeni families forming Quraish, the tribe from which Mohammed later came.  These families only came to occupy Mecca in the 5th century A.D. The city of Mecca was built by the tribe of Khuzaa'h in the 4th century A.D.
 Mohammed’s family is not connected to any Ishmaelite tribe because Mohammed’s family didn’t leave Yemen until the 5th  century A.D., and that’s about  1,100 years  after the Ishmaelites disappeared. Mohammed’s tribe could not have lived in the same locations as the Ishmaelite tribes at any time throughout history.

The genealogy fabricated by Ibn-Ishak contradicts the sayings of Mohammed, who expressed his ignorance about his ancestors prior to his 17th ancestor.

Ibn Ishak was considered by the Muslim scholars of his time as being guilty of forgery and fabricating false genealogies.[1][i]
Long before Ibn Ishak, Muslims who lived in Mohammed’s own time also fabricated genealogies in an attempt to connect Mohammed to the descendants of Ishmael.  Mohammed, himself, rejected all of these false genealogies, and he put limits regarding the genealogy of his ancestors. Regarding Mohammed’s own rejection of the false genealogies, Amru bin al-As wrote:
Mohammed genealogized himself regarding his ancestors until he reached al-Nather bin Kinaneh, then he said, “anyone who claimed otherwise or added further ancestors, has lied.”[2][ii]
By this, Mohammed confessed that neither he, nor anyone else, knew about his ancestors beyond al-Nather bin Kinaneh. Nather bin Kinaneh is the 17th ancestor in the genealogy which Mohammed recognized as true. Other narrations of the customs, or sayings, of Mohammed, called Hadiths, show Mohammed refused to be genealogized prior to Maad,  معدwho some suggested, was the 4th ancestor prior to al-Nather bin Kinaneh.[3][iii]. Am just do tired with the lies of Islam. Fabrications every where. The same Mohammed, at first rejected the fabrications, but when he was told it earn him credibility, he changed his mind and accepted the fabrications. The man was the False prophet Christ warned us about.

those who are insisting that after the flood/rain of destruction of disbelievers that Nuh [AS] prayed for and in the time of Ibrahim [AS] that he didnt build the Kaaba in Makka, the fact that the children of Israel [jews of today] say that arabs are their cousins of common grandfather Ibrahim/Abraham at least shamed the christians on nairaland who are ignorantly proposing lies [in case they are not intentionally lying] and if there is any jew on nairaland, same condition applies to you as the lying christians.


the atheists can be excused because the reason above does not apply to them. but they are shamed because they can not certainly say when and who built it the very first time since it has been rebuilt many times on part of the foundation that Ibrahim and his first son Ismail [AS] built it when they did.

One thing we can be sure of the arabs and the muslims are not claiming any structure from any of the world wonders. and Kaaba which they claim which is situated on a harsh makkan of almost 100% rocky floor valley land is nothing more than a simple structure. the significance of it before the Islam of Muhammad [SA] was not more than a place of security where all wars, battles and killings were forbidden. it was a symbol of obedience to God as He was the One that commanded Ibrahim [AS] to do so, and his son Ismail [AS] assisted him as son would have. Ibrahim {AS] after its completion was commanded to call humans to its pilgrimage and God inclined the heart of believers to go to it. from among the children of Israel, prophets [AS] made the pilgrimages, until the first idol [Hubal gotten from the giant Harmilekites of syria].

The pagan arabs of Makka and other tribes in the hijaz knew they were arabized arabs and have dominated the original owners of the language from Yemen [The jurdum that lived in the valley of Makka with Ismail [AS] and his mother Hajar [AS] and from them Ismail got the arab culture, language and his first wife] and knew that they were children of Ibrahim, through his son Ismail [AS to both great believers].

The prophet [SA] in inviting the makkan elites to Islam reminded them to return to the religion of their forefather Ibrahim and Ismail [AS]. no single time from any of the elites in the many occasions he [SA] mentioned their forefathers as monotheistic muslims did anyone of them said it was not so. their reasons for refusing to follow him [SA] is similar in some part the very reason late trumpeter Miles Davies refused to accept Islam, the reason syrian christian emperor/king who was visiting Jerusalem when the letter of invitation to islam arrived in Jerusalem from Madina and other reasons include political and dubious financial influences that will erode. some did not want to be in the same 'way' a the poor, the slaves since it filled out the gap of class differences and make 1 brotherhood of all.



All elites and enemies from Makka never accused of wanting power or lying. they convinced themselves of other reasons to not become muslim. Abu Jahal [lana] did so because of clan rivalry between his abu mazum and the prophet's hashim clan. the christian rule of syria said to the Quraish, if you affirm that Muhammad [SA] would not lie when it comes to gold and silver, how do you think he [SA] lie when it comes to God? he also stated to them that he knew from their christian book that there is a prophet being expected to appear about that time, but he didn't know that it would be from the arabs. he further predicted that his movement will rule Jerusalem in not time and about 9 years, in the time of Umar [RA], Jerusalem was opened for Islam of Muhammad [SA]. Al Negus of Ethiopia said to another Quraishi, how do you expect me to allow you to kill the emissary of the one who the same Angel that brings revelation to Moses also brings revelation to him [SA] from God [pointing his finger to heaven].


Nothing Muhammad [SA] said has not been fulfilled in its time, to include the destruction of Persian empire, which is now really islamic, the opening of syria/greater syria, etc. if Muhammad [SA] stated a limited ancestors, relatively current/close to his existence, he never denied he was from Ibrahim [AS] through Ismail [AS]. no arabs worth its blood ever denied it. In the victory over makka, all idols were destroyed, cleansing the Kabba to its original, as Ibrahim [AS] by the Command of God intended it. There is a place around the kaaba called the Makum [station] of Ibrahim [AS] with clear pair of footprints. if any or all of these are not evidence about Ibrahim [AS], the bring your evidence that will make sense, not just a writing of an english man talking about arabs when he does not have revelation from God to do so!

Misogynist2014:
Which of these two statements do you expect to be spoken by GOD?

By the night as it cancels [the light]; by the day as it appears in glory; by the Creation of male and female.


"I swear by Myself, says the LORD."

Please stop quoting me if you only want to trade dumb anecdotes.

Abuamam:


Please stop quoting me if you only want to trade dumb anecdotes.

All I need is for you to choose, what is your answer? Why will you stay in a religion that flares up when simple questions are asked? I ask again, A or B?

Misogynist2014:
All I need is for you to choose, what is your answer? Why will you stay in a religion that flares up when simple questions are asked? I ask again, A or B?

All religions do that.

They tell people to depend on faith and not evidence - that will always lead to internal frustration.

mmsen:


All religions do that.

They tell people to depend on faith and not evidence - that will always lead to internal frustration.

I can defend my religion. Help him choose the best answer if he's too naive to choose one. A or B?

mmsen:


As far as I am aware there is no evidence of Abraham (as described in the Bible) ever having existed. As such there is no evidence that this same unproven Abraham built the Kaaba.

And that would be your own problem. you know Abraham doesnt exist, so why are you asking for who built the kaabah. Do you expect a different answer now? we will keep saying abraham nd yu will keep saying NO. so what was the need for your thread.
lets just say Who built it? WURAOLA. end of matter

Misogynist2014:
Which of these two statements do you expect to be spoken by GOD?

By the night as it cancels [the light]; by the day as it appears in glory; by the Creation of male and female.


"I swear by Myself, says the LORD."

God owns everything so we dont care what He swears by. Himself, His creations..ko matter. They hav the effect of letting one know He means to give a strict warning. gaskiya. why do little irrelevant thinhs matter to you people? cant you get busier? like find out what might happen to you in case you are wrong

babylolaroy:

And that would be your own problem. you know Abraham doesnt exist, so why are you asking for who built the kaabah. Do you expect a different answer now? we will keep saying abraham nd yu will keep saying NO. so what was the need for your thread.
lets just say Who built it? WURAOLA. end of matter

If you have no proof, just say that you have no proof.

And go back to hiding behind your faith.

Thank you.