Sagamite:

Only the inferiority complexed race (Black, especially Africans) decides that they need to dump their languages and adopt another before they feel good about themselves and you see their kids blowing fone in the UK and might even speak Spanish/French (to the glee of the parents) but knows nothing about his mother tongue.

Itz mostly seen in west african countries. Look at the somalians as backward as they are you can never see them speak english to each other irrespective of where they were born. Same with Ethopians and Eriterians.

Somebody said its globalization. I said itz complex/colomentality and that is what it is.

Pidgin English for real!

presido1:

Itz mostly seen in west african countries. Look at the somalians as backward as they are you can never see them speak english to each other irrespective of where they were born. Same with Ethopians and Eriterians.

Somebody said its globalization. I said itz complex/colomentality and that is what it is.

I couldn't agree more. The Somalis especially.

Lenny5000:

Pidgin English for real!

All dis Waffi boys sef!

@Sagamite
You don't seem to get my point, I'm not against being bilingual, I'm all for it
What I'm against here is having Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa as your first and basic language, it's just not the way forward.

You can scream 'patriotism' all you can but we cannot use our kids to correct the mistakes of our founding fathers.
If you really want me to put Yoruba as a priority over English in my home, start from making this Yoruba a language to reckon with in 'Formal Nigeria'
Why raise my kid with a language he can't use once he puts on a suit?? Kids with English as their basic language have an understandably clear advantage in Nigerian schools . . . heck even the proceedings in MOST business circles in Lagos are done in English.
English is Nigeria's first language. You have to accept that, and I'll rather my child had that as his basic language too.
Five years old above, then I can add Yoruba (I'd rather he picked up Spanish though) as his next.

You lot act like Globalisation is such a weird concept, it's simple, fifty years ago, the Nigerian Challenge Cup was the only thing my granddad cared about, now every Ade, Obi and Ahmed has a Fly Emirates replica kit. What do we blame??
In the early 1900s, British food was 'British', the average Brit restaurant is more French that what you'll see in Paris . . . Globalisation
The spread of this Anglais, is too fast for us to ignore, my cousin studies in Ukraine, they teach him in English. We're lucky to have the world's widest spread language as our official lingo, let's embrace it.

German kids, Arab kids, Greek kids, Italian kids, Spanish kids, Urdu kids, Hindi kids, Chinese kids?? Stop listing countries that have these languages as their official language . . . this logic is so flawed
At the end of the day, if Yoruba were to be my country's official language,I will most definitely not be here speaking English.

You're talking about Welsh and Gaelic, some schools and universities teach a few courses in Welsh, this is how to get your kids speaking in these languages, not sitting at home telling me to raise my kids up with Yoruba as a first language in a country were non-English speakers are considered illiterate.

eldee:

@Sagamite
You don't seem to get my point, I'm not against being bilingual, I'm all for it
What I'm against here is having Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa as your first and basic language, it's just not the way forward.

You can scream 'patriotism' all you can but we cannot use our kids to correct the mistakes of our founding fathers.
If you really want me to put Yoruba as a priority over English in my home, start from making this Yoruba a language to reckon with in 'Formal Nigeria'
Why raise my kid with a language he can't use once he puts on a suit?? Kids with English as their basic language have an understandably clear advantage in Nigerian schools . . . heck even the proceedings in MOST business circles in Lagos are done in English.
English is Nigeria's first language. You have to accept that, and I'll rather my child had that as his basic language too.
Five years old above, then I can add Yoruba (I'd rather he picked up Spanish though) as his next.

You lot act like Globalisation is such a weird concept, it's simple, fifty years ago, the Nigerian Challenge Cup was the only thing my granddad cared about, now every Ade, Obi and Ahmed has a Fly Emirates replica kit. What do we blame??
In the early 1900s, British food was 'British', the average Brit restaurant is more French that what you'll see in Paris . . . Globalisation
The spread of this Anglais, is too fast for us to ignore, my cousin studies in Ukraine, they teach him in English. We're lucky to have the world's widest spread language as our official lingo, let's embrace it.

German kids, Arab kids, Greek kids, Italian kids, Spanish kids, Urdu kids, Hindi kids, Chinese kids?? Stop listing countries that have these languages as their official language . . . this logic is so flawed
At the end of the day, if Yoruba were to be my country's official language,I will most definitely not be here speaking English.

You're talking about Welsh and Gaelic, some schools and universities teach a few courses in Welsh, this is how to get your kids speaking in these languages, not sitting at home telling me to raise my kids up with Yoruba as a first language in a country were non-English speakers are considered illiterate.

Could not agree more

Sagamite:

I am yet to see any human being that does not respect himself but yet is respected by others.

Because I don't speak Hausa doesn't mean I don't respect myself
Obama doesn't speak anything Kenyan . . . that argument is irrelevant

Sagamite:

Lets face the facts, the vast majority of people that refuse to speak mother tongue to their child do so because of inferiority complex (want to seem posh, and not seen as 'bush'). The secondary one is the belief that the child will not get far if they don't come across as highly westernised.

Wrong!!! It's simply because, being able to converse in English in Nigeria is something that's more known with the literate.
You're blaming them?? My country's educational system is English-based

Sagamite:

I will speak only Yoruba to my kids at home because it is important for a human being to know and feel they belong somewhere, and being able to speak the language helps. No doubt they will learn English as they will have to go to school, so learning English is inevitable.

True say, but most people (moi included) would rather teach them English at home and give them a headstart
When they're 9-10 years of age and a strong foundation has been built, then Yoruba can come in. I started learning Pidgin English at 15, it took time, but I got it right, I wouldn't have that kind of opportunity with English.

Sagamite:

In regards to them not being able to speak English fluently because it was not spoken to them at home, that to me is clunking bollocks.

I spoke Yoruba at home, learnt English in school and read novels in english. I am a horibble linguist. I mean horrrrrrrrrible linguist. I can't learn another language apart from the two I already know. But yet, I have always got the highest mark for any English test, even for exams set by UK-based examination boards.

Also, I have lived in the UK for years now. I am not the type to be blowing fone to please anybody or to assume some stuuuuuuppid accent to prove I am UK-based. When I speak to non-Nigerians, they normally have absolutely no clue where I am from because I have no British (be it Queen's, cockney) accent, American accent or African accent. I speak clean english, to the point people tend to ask me "where are you from"?

I am able to communicate with the most advance white person in a business environment in such a way that it has never affected my progress career wise. So I think, I stand as evidence that the secondary reason of not speaking the mother tongue to your child is weak. I have a solid foundation in English despite speaking Yoruba at home and growing up in Yoruba state and being utterly useless in learning languages. Also, I didn't even go to posh expensive private schools in Nigeria, I went to ordinary schools.

Hmmn . . .quite an interesting story
But you forgot to tell me how this your research is representative of the wider population
Also, you failed to explain to me why it's so easy to pick out thousands of so-called graduates that can't speak basic English.

I'm also waiting to understand why your research draws sharp contrasts to the one BBC did on children that speak English as a second language needing extra help to cope in school.
But I guess, we have to ignore research that was done on over 800,000 kids and accept your lone-man research as valid.

Sagamite:

Mandela, Achebe, Ban ki Moon, Aung San Suu Kyi, Yunus, Lashkmi Mittal all have an accent but they are globally respected.

How many times do I have to emphasize that I'm not talking accents here??

Sagamite:

You know what, why don't we even change the names of our town's and cities to English names to know we are adapting to globalisation.  

Let my hometown Sagamu (or Sagamu-ewa if you want to be conc) be changed to Sagasville, Sagingham or Sagahampton to satisfy this dude's interpretation of globalisation.  

When I say the Economic meltdown affects the whole world, do I mean it's good??
Try to be objective here . . . please

eldee:

@Sagamite
You don't seem to get my point, I'm not against being bilingual, I'm all for it
What I'm against here is having Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa as your first and basic language, it's just not the way forward.

You can scream 'patriotism' all you can but we cannot use our kids to correct the mistakes of our founding fathers.
If you really want me to put Yoruba as a priority over English in my home, start from making this Yoruba a language to reckon with in 'Formal Nigeria'
Why raise my kid with a language he can't use once he puts on a suit?? Kids with English as their basic language have an understandably clear advantage in Nigerian schools . . . heck even the proceedings in MOST business circles in Lagos are done in English.
English is Nigeria's first language. You have to accept that, and I'll rather my child had that as his basic language too.
Five years old above, then I can add Yoruba (I'd rather he picked up Spanish though) as his next.

You lot act like Globalisation is such a weird concept, it's simple, fifty years ago, the Nigerian Challenge Cup was the only thing my granddad cared about, now every Ade, Obi and Ahmed has a Fly Emirates replica kit. What do we blame??
In the early 1900s, British food was 'British', the average Brit restaurant is more French that what you'll see in Paris . . . Globalisation
The spread of this Anglais, is too fast for us to ignore, my cousin studies in Ukraine, they teach him in English. We're lucky to have the world's widest spread language as our official lingo, let's embrace it.

German kids, Arab kids, Greek kids, Italian kids, Spanish kids, Urdu kids, Hindi kids, Chinese kids?? Stop listing countries that have these languages as their official language . . . this logic is so flawed
At the end of the day, if Yoruba were to be my country's official language,I will most definitely not be here speaking English.

You're talking about Welsh and Gaelic, some schools and universities teach a few courses in Welsh, this is how to get your kids speaking in these languages, not sitting at home telling me to raise my kids up with Yoruba as a first language in a country were non-English speakers are considered illiterate.

Sad, Sad, Sad!. Cant you teach your kids both your native dialect along with English Language? The black man can scream globalization at the top of their voice to 'justify' their disdain/reasons for abandoning their native dialect, but please tell me, are we more globalized that the Chinese who are so proud of their culture that they speak Mandarin Chinese impeccably, while their command of English Language is not as fluent, in some cases as the black man?

eldee:

@Sagamite
You don't seem to get my point, I'm not against being bilingual, I'm all for it
What I'm against here is having Yoruba, Igbo or Hausa as your first and basic language, it's just not the way forward.

I am not saying you should have any of these 3 basic languages as I am pretty sure you are Ishan. Unfortunately, if Ishan people gathered I bet you will not hear a word. If I and friends are celebrating something with our Yoruba culture you will only be looking in envy as you are unlikely to be able to do one in Ishan that you call your own.

There are tons of people that have Yoruba as their first and basic language that have gone far more than forward. So I don't see why you will object to it as by all indications it shows it makes you feel complete.

eldee:

You can scream 'patriotism' all you can but we cannot use our kids to correct the mistakes of our founding fathers. If you really want me to put Yoruba as a priority over English in my home, start from making this Yoruba a language to reckon with in 'Formal Nigeria'
Why raise my kid with a language he can't use once he puts on a suit??

I am not screaming 'patroitism', I am screaming 'identity'. You are nothing if you don't have an identity that you can scream to the world. It is a strong part of human psychology.

eldee:

Kids with English as their basic language have an understandably clear advantage in Nigerian schools . . . heck even the proceedings in MOST business circles in Lagos are done in English.
English is Nigeria's first language. You have to accept that, and I'll rather my child had that as his basic language too.
Five years old above, then I can add Yoruba (I'd rather he picked up Spanish though) as his next.

The world is not all about suits. The world is not all about career. The world is not all about financial acquisition. I feel more happy and comfortable when I sit amongst people that speak Pidgin English even if they are from Ghana, Sierra Leone or Cameroun. I feel I am part of something, I know where I am from. This is the thing missing from a lot of Nigerian kids that grew up in the UK without home recognition who in later years start thinking of trying to identify with Nigeria when it is almost too late.

In regards to business circles, there are tons of UK people and white for that matter that can't compete with some of us that have English as a secondary language. At the end of the day, it is your reasoning and analytical abilities as well as the a threshold on English that will make you excel in business circles.

Top companies are heading to India (IIT universities) to hirer the best thinkers irrespective of their tonation as long as they can communicate reasonably in English. They are not after the English per se, they are after the brain power.

eldee:

You lot act like Globalisation is such a weird concept, it's simple, fifty years ago, the Nigerian Challenge Cup was the only thing my granddad cared about, now every Ade, Obi and Ahmed has a Fly Emirates replica kit. What do we blame??
In the early 1900s, British food was 'British', the average Brit restaurant is more French that what you'll see in Paris . . . Globalisation
The spread of this Anglais, is too fast for us to ignore, my cousin studies in Ukraine, they teach him in English. We're lucky to have the world's widest spread language as our official lingo, let's embrace it.

Bollocks, if the Nigerian FA cup and league was up to scratch, people will forget this whole premeirship stuff. Unfortunately, they have given up on local football due to several years of its ridiculous quality and the Prem just filled the vacuum. I don't think people in Germany, Turkey, Holland, Belgium or Ukraine give a toss about Premiership as they have their own.

And English food is horrible, one of the worst in the world (how many delicacies can you do with liver?), that is why French food has taken over, it filled a vacuum.

eldee:

German kids, Arab kids, Greek kids, Italian kids, Spanish kids, Urdu kids, Hindi kids, Chinese kids?? Stop listing countries that have these languages as their official language . . . this logic is so flawed
At the end of the day, if Yoruba were to be my country's official language,I will most definitely not be here speaking English.

You're talking about Welsh and Gaelic, some schools and universities teach a few courses in Welsh, this is how to get your kids speaking in these languages, not sitting at home telling me to raise my kids up with Yoruba as a first language in a country were non-English speakers are considered illiterate.

My point for listing the countries is that, I don't see them being at a disadvantage in speaking English or studying in English despite having another local language as their first language (whether it is an official language or not). And don't forget that they lived all their lives in the UK but knew they should NEVER forget their identity.

So why not let your child follow the same model except because of colomentality.

eldee:

Because I don't speak Hausa doesn't mean I don't respect myself
Obama doesn't speak anything Kenyan . . . that argument is irrelevant

What kind of argument is this?

He is mixed race, has never lived in Kenya, was raised by White grandparents in Hawaii (and partly in Indonesia). How is he going to speak a Kenyan language?

No doubt, he feels a part of him is missing because of his distance from everything Kenyan. That is why he went there looking for his roots despite all his money and success. As I said, school, career and finances are not everything.

eldee:

Wrong!!! It's simply because, being able to converse in English in Nigeria is something that's more known with the literate.

It might shock you that there are some proud ones amongst us that can converse in English and our local dialect that are extremely literate and known to be so. ^{[size=2]Ala Wole Soyinka[/size]}

So it is not a strong excuse for saying you wouldn't teach your kids your local language. They can learn both but to really learn the local one normally requires it takes precedence in the home.

eldee:

You're blaming them?? My country's educational system is English-based
True say, but most people (moi included) would rather teach them English at home and give them a headstart

Everything is not about school, academics and career. If push comes to shove, I can go to any part of Yoruba land and assimiliate and be successful. And I can do the same, even probably more than you, in any English land. Just like the kids from the countries I listed.

eldee:

When they're 9-10 years of age and a strong foundation has been built, then Yoruba can come in. I started learning Pidgin English at 15, it took time, but I got it right, I wouldn't have that kind of opportunity with English.

You have to hope, they don't already have the mentality that being westernise is better than showing where they are from.

Learning Pidgin English is very much different and easier than learning Ishan or Yoruba.

eldee:

Hmmn . . .quite an interesting story
But you forgot to tell me how this your research is representative of the wider population
Also, you failed to explain to me why it's so easy to pick out thousands of so-called graduates that can't speak basic English.

I'm also waiting to understand why your research draws sharp contrasts to the one BBC did on children that speak English as a second language needing extra help to cope in school.
But I guess, we have to ignore research that was done on over 800,000 kids and accept your lone-man research as valid.
How many times do I have to emphasize that I'm not talking accents here??
When I say the Economic meltdown affects the whole world, do I mean it's good??
Try to be objective here . . . please

Extra-help to cope with what? Every subject or just English?

Was the research done for those that have reached adulthood or was it only for those that are kids?

Did it not include migrant johnny-just-come kids that live on giro? Why won't a child with that background need extra help to cope?

Have they done the same research exclusively for children of Continental Europeans with high flying jobs in London that speak both their local language and English? They all head to Oxford and Cambridge.

I know a group of Nigerian kids (from at least 15 different families) that grew up in Italy.

They ALL speak fluent Yoruba, fluent Italian and fluent English, and are all academically successful. No colomentality in their parents. The parents ensured they learnt Yoruba and English by speaking it to them as well as taking them to Yoruba party gatherings and ensuring the bible they read is in Yoruba.

Most of them have only been to Nigeria once or twice in their lives. But now, they are set up to go to Nigeria if they desire and assimiliate even if they choose to live in Oshogbo.

All of them want to marry Nigerians, and with the upbringing it has been very easy for them to get along with Nigerians that grew up in Nigeria.

Bottom point, the average child can learn 2-3 languages side by side without any problem. You don't need to eliminate one for the benefit of another except you are just colomenting. I don't buy the argument.

It is easy to pick out thousand of graduates that can't speak English because of our poor educational system, NOT the fact that we try to be bilingual.

Here is the profile of the First black CEO of a FTSE 100 company (i.e. the biggest 100 companies in UK).

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/movers_and_shakers/article5941323.ece

Please note the very first paragraph.

He does not speak good English!

I repeat, people are after your brain power (analytical, visionary and dynamic) as long as you meet a threshold in communicating in English.

And since he was born in 1962 in CIV and returned there to be Minister, one can safely assume he speaks his local language as a first and basic language.

I have been to job interviews where I will forget a word in English (I have a bad memory) and I will laugh (it is not as much a big deal as we colomentalist make it) and ask my interviewers to remind me. And I still get the job offers.

The excuse of not teaching your kids local language because it will limit their achievement is lame. It is just subconcious colomentality.

Be proud of who you are and where you are from. . . . . . . . .Be complete.

@Ndipe
I've told you before that you cannot use China as a case-study
How can you compare Yoruba to a China's official language??
How dare you blame modern day Nigerians for not using a language that's basically useless once you step into a South-Eastern state??
This will be the last time I'll reply anyone that's not putting forward valid arguments.

@Sagamite
If you don't mind, I'll prefer answering your posts in points, it's saves so I won't need to edit quotes

1. I'm half Yoruba, half Ishan . . . The only reason I concentrated on Ishan is because it's my mum's native language.
And I do speak basic Yoruba, but I only picked it up after I'd already built a foundation in English.
As I said, I'm not against being bilingual, I'm against having backyard language as my first language.
As I said before, for every ten people that have 'gone far' I'll point out thousands that have been inhibited because of the language factor.

2. Identity?? I share beliefs of common ancestry (Except when you start talking of Odudua's snailshell and cock story), I share many of your values (like being religious and honesty), and I share most customs (except when it's superstion). How does thinking in the world's most important language take away my identity??

Erm, now let's me step out of the picture and be objective here . . . do you think Black-British don't have a sense of ethnic identity??Oh, you think the Jesse Jacksons and MLKs don't feel like they belong somewhere??
Whether you like it or not these same Black-British people have managed to form a culture with a very distinct set of norms and values compared to traditional Africans. Just like how White-Americans are different from their British cousins.
You can attack them if you want to, but you'll be no different from small minded racist pricks.

3. We seem to have different ideals in life, maybe it's because I'm much younger than you are.
Or maybe it's because I've been schooled by these capitalists, but I believe the most important legacy you can give to your child is anything that helps him stand on his own in the future.

And you keep mentioning brain power and all that, am I arguing against the importance of brainpower?? That point is highly irrelevant. I'll ignore that.

4. Hehehe . . . funniest thing I heard all year, Ukranians don't worship the Premiership??
Religiously followed by over half a billion people, so the over 200 countries that watch the EPL don't have good leagues??
You are an intellingent man, but this your arguments are weak.

You accuse me of having a black African mentality, here you are displaying it at the highest level.
I mentioned food as an example of the power of Globalisation, and you're here talking bout liver.
Think outside the box, it helps.

Oh boy! de tin tire me, na so i enter villa last xmas, i come notice say about 70% of the pikin no sabi our dialect especially all dis my mama tell me say i be ibo. e dey annoying, de only tin be say our mothers abeg "FIRST THING FIRST" make una dey first teach our pikin dem mama tongue b4 teaching dem english cos our pple say CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME, tnx

Thank God for my life, though I'm not 100% fluent in bini language even though my parents are typical bini people, they made sure they communicated with us in our local dialect, we all went to school to learn both english and in the process, we also learnt how to speak yoruba. My dad was the only one who couldn't speak yoruba. My mom and the rest of us can speak 4 languages. bini, english, yoruba and pidgin, Infact I can even speak some funny yoruba too (eno). Yoruba so much affected my bini that I ended up mixing yoruba with bini each time I try speaking bini. The day we went for a burial in benin, it was so embarrassing when I was being laughed at while speaking my diluted bini. But then they still understood me altogether. I will never shy away from teaching my kids how to speak my dialect and at the same time make sure they learn the rest from school and the environment. I so much envy bisi olatilo, that man can speak more than 20 languages, like 10 of nigerian languages and 10 foreign ones. It's a big plus to me that I can speak these 4 languages almost to perfection. If I am in a yoruba land, I will belong, if I am in edo state, I will also belong, if I find myself in an english country, I'll also belong and if I also find myself in my fellow west african countries, I'll represent too, Too whose's advantage It's definitely mine and I'm proud of it. If possible, I don't mind learning ibo, hausa, spanish and Uhm maybe french. NEVER IGNORE YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE FOR ANOTHER BECAUSE YOUR KIDS MIGHT END UP NEVER KNOWING HOW TO SPEAK IT AND IT MIGHT DISCONNECT THEM FROM THEIR ROOT WHEN AT "HOME".

eldee:

@Sagamite
If you don't mind, I'll prefer answering your posts in points, it's saves so I won't need to edit quotes

1. I'm half Yoruba, half Ishan . . . The only reason I concentrated on Ishan is because it's my mum's native language.
And I do speak basic Yoruba, but I only picked it up after I'd already built a foundation in English.
As I said, I'm not against being bilingual, I'm against having backyard language as my first language.
As I said before, for every ten people that have 'gone far' I'll point out thousands that have been inhibited because of the language factor.

Sorry, but the 'backyard' language defines me. It is my identity as much as my 'backyard' accent and skin. I will always carry them as first and second to none.

I am really yet to see anyone, talkless of thousands, that have been inhibited mainly because they have a local language as their first language. You might be mixing up the scenarios where people have no access to, or poor education in, English (or overall) due to poverty and poor guidance in life, hence end up with only the local language and hence can't advance themselves. Transpose those scenarios into the council flats of Blackpool and you get the same results even though they speak English as local language.

I grew up in middle class communities where all spoke local languages as primary languages and I have not seen anyone inhibited in life because of this. I have seen several in the lower class (cleaners, drivers, cook's children) get inhibited and do have a strong accent but I am pretty sure the inhibition can be attributed to the lower quality of education and the support structures that will make them excel academically, not because they (like me) have a local language as primary language.

When I went to secondary school, I met a lot of posh kids that could not speak any local language and blowed fone from morning til night. Review of our lives now has not shown any significant advantages they have over those that were 'backyard' orientated.

Actually, some of them were so distracted about their coolness to the point they lost their way academically and never recovered. Whilst 'backyard' ones were studying hard and achieving academically.

eldee:

2. Identity?? I share beliefs of common ancestry (Except when you start talking of Odudua's snailshell and cock story), I share many of your values (like being religious and honesty), and I share most customs (except when it's superstion). How does thinking in the world's most important language take away my identity??

But you are comfortable with:
- a man walking on water (but one no fit use snailshell)
- a woman getting pregnant without intercourse (no one checked to be sure. If my daughter told me that today I go wire im face with a slap)
- a man living in a Whale for 40 days (and nights if I remember correctly  )
- a man dividing the sea into two with a mere stick (and probably his long beard)
- a man packing an Ark with a pair of every living thing on earth (so he IDENTIFIED and caught all of them? Over a million, by hand?)
- one man being strong because of the length of his hair? (and you don't believe in cock story?  )



Well, at least those ones came from 'frontyard' people, so it is more believable, chop whatever they feed you. No, it is not superstitions. 

Go for your 'Salvation' and block the expressway.

eldee:

Erm, now let's me step out of the picture and be objective here . . . do you think Black-British don't have a sense of ethnic identity??Oh, you think the Jesse Jacksons and MLKs don't feel like they belong somewhere??

Whether you like it or not these same Black-British people have managed to form a culture with a very distinct set of norms and values compared to traditional Africans. Just like how White-Americans are different from their British cousins.
You can attack them if you want to, but you'll be no different from small minded racist pricks.

They do feel like they belong somewhere because they have come to the reality that they can never change the past and regain what they have lost, hence they have created something new and over time acclimatize to it.

If given the option to find out the real truth as to where they were from, right up to the village and descendents of their African ancestors, believe me, they will jump at it. And will gladly pick up aspects of the traditions that is not detrimental.

eldee:

3. We seem to have different ideals in life, maybe it's because I'm much younger than you are.
Or maybe it's because I've been schooled by these capitalists, but I believe the most important legacy you can give to your child is anything that helps him stand on his own in the future.

What are you trying to say?  You are younger and more handsome than me? 

I am schooled by the capitalists too as I have been in the UK for more than a decade and did university here. I am just an indivdual that ask very key questions and scrutinize thoughts to the limits because I believe there are 3 types of people:

1) Morons
2) Smart people that are mentally lazy
3) Smart people that try and use their brain consistently

A lot of people fall in (2) and just don't apply what they have upstairs until they are challenged to do.

My stance is that learning your local language as a primary language does not in any way inhibit you providing your child the highest quality tools for standing on their own.

Ban Ki Moon can hardly speak English you understand but he was appointed UN Secretary General.

Do you think 2face would have won MTV awards if he was trying to sing like Brian Mcknight? No, he won because of his originality and locality.

Nigerian music industry is reaching new heights because we went back to our roots to dig up what we are and sell it to the world, not trying to be americanas.

Go and ask the moronic wannabes of Alex O and likes how far they got with their americana.

eldee:

And you keep mentioning brain power and all that, am I arguing against the importance of brainpower?? That point is highly irrelevant. I'll ignore that.

It and lack of threshold English is the only thing that can inhibit your child.

eldee:

4. Hehehe . . . funniest thing I heard all year, Ukranians don't worship the Premiership??
Religiously followed by over half a billion people, so the over 200 countries that watch the EPL don't have good leagues??
You are an intellingent man, but this your arguments are weak.

Watching something is different from worshipping something. EPL is better quality football than most other leagues hence I will expect they watch it also in Ukraine and even Germany.

But because I will happily watch Brazil vs Argentina does not mean I worship their national teams. The only national team I worship is Super Eagles.

Ukrainians might watch EPL but they will worship teams in their league. Unlike Nigerians that worship EPL, they might watch Spanish or Italian leagues but they do not worship those. There is a difference in watching and worshiping. The EPL filled a vacuum that does not exist in the likes of Ukraine.

EPL, whether watched or not, whether better or not, will not dominate in countries like these because their is no vacuum to fill:

Ukraine
Brazil
Argentina
Turkey
Holland
Uruguay
Mexico
Colombia
Chile
Equador
Egypt
Tunisia

But it will in likes of:

Nigeria
India
Thailand
Singapore
Iraq
Jamaica
Albania
Qatar

Can you see the thinking now?

Almost the same as our music industry, we still listen to American music based on the vacuum they filled before but our focus is now returning to our own naija ones that is now up to scratch.

eldee:

You accuse me of having a black African mentality, here you are displaying it at the highest level.
I mentioned food as an example of the power of Globalisation, and you're here talking bout liver.
Think outside the box, it helps.

I don't get you here but I am a Strategist, so I get paid for thinking outside the box and challenging opinions like I am doing here, son.

And my primary language is Yoruba but yet I can stand in front of and present to Directors and Board members in London because my English meets their expectations and they respect my opinions.

And I no dey speak fone, I am allergic.

1. I knew you'ld come up with something that smart, that's why I used BBC's research as an example.
At least, we know it cuts through social class.

In mainstream settings, native speakers, for whom English is nearly automatic, can focus primarily on the cognitive tasks of an assignment—learning new information, procedures, etc—however, the student with limited ability in English must focus on both cognitive and linguistic tasks—learning new vocabulary, structures and academic discourse” (Anstrom, 1997:5).

I don't know why you're using your own one-man research when I'm using researches from BBC, The Sun and a lot of other sources. . . Having English as a second language in an English Language based educational system . . . It's a no-brainer, I wonder why people even do research on it.

2. For someone that claims to be a strategist, I'm not surprised that with the you assume a lot.
Anyways, why do you think I'm comfortable with that??

3. Bla, bla, bla You seem to think belief in common ancestry is the only aspect of identity?? Infact, I think I should be jamming in Mecca right now, afterall that's where my forefathers were from.

And that thing about finding out where they're from, it's simply people being adventurous, it's not like they pick up traditions when they find out, nah, they go sober for two days, and voila, they're black American again.
These people have forged a different culture that takes bits from both the Western culture and remains of the African heritage and forged a new form of ethnic identity that even you cannot identify with.
At the end of the day, Martin Luther King is one of the most recognisable names in America . . . and he ain't African, he's African[b]American[/b].\

4. Yes nah, see this old papa ooh

Ban Ki Moon is a Havard graduate, his Anglais is better than mine.

Believe it or not, American music has over-influenced the Nigerian Music scene . . . Pop is Western, Tuface is a pop artiste, so whatchu talking bout??
Don't use the Nigerian Entertainment industry to back up that point, that's a simple piece of advice.

5. You really want to go into a football argument with me??
I used 'worship' for Ukraine, first hand experience . . .

And your argument is getting weaker by the minute, does it have to be worshipped to be a regarded as a global event??
Mister, you're stepping more and more into my comfort zone, aiite let me explain to you, over 600 million homes watch the EPL every week, now, we forgot to count the African countries where people have viewing centres and pubs to watch football. These 600 million homes have regular followers.

An estimated 1 billion people watch the two Arsenal Vs Man Utd matches every season, the rest are the passive followers.
And you say this is not Globalisation??

6. I've told you to stop using your success story as a case-study for the wider population.
Various researchers have put time and effort into proving my point and you're busy telling me bout how you met Sir Alan Sugar

eldee:

1. I knew you'ld come up with something that smart, that's why I used BBC's research as an example.
At least, we know it cuts through social class.

In mainstream settings, native speakers, for whom English is nearly automatic, can focus primarily on the cognitive tasks of an assignment—learning new information, procedures, etc—however, the student with limited ability in English must focus on both cognitive and linguistic tasks—learning new vocabulary, structures and academic discourse” (Anstrom, 1997:5).

I don't know why you're using your own one-man research when I'm using researches from BBC, The Sun and a lot of other sources. . . Having English as a second language in an English Language based educational system . . . It's a no-brainer, I wonder why people even do research on it.

No. 1, don't ever quote The Sun or any other tabloid as you reliable source. That is just laughable.

When people do research, you have to have the courage to question it and not just chop it at face value.

You have to understand their motives for the research as that will provide you with an understanding of their most likely data gathering approach. And in most cases, you will find that it is hard to transfer the "facts" of their research to support arguments of an alternative motive.

That was why I asked you the series of questions above.

Finally, when someone provides you with research results that says A is better than B, it is important to seek the quantification so as to understand the significance.

Have you not seen the loads of rubbish research about how eating chocolate is good for you heart and all other jargons of that genre from universities? By the time you ask for quantification of the goodness, you will find it is insignificant.

So a child with a language other than English as primary language needs to focus on both cognitive and linguistic task rather than just cognitive? And so? Quantify? How many more seconds or minutes does it take to do the extra task? Is the limitation, even though it exists, significant to even be bothered about?

That was why I asked you earlier whether the research went as far as looking into adulthood because that is the true test of how damaging it has been. Has that stopped them from achieving?

People that do research are not Gods.

eldee:

2. For someone that claims to be a strategist, I'm not surprised that with the you assume a lot.
Anyways, why do you think I'm comfortable with that??

You no dey do Holy Ghost?    

Fire!!! 

eldee:

3. Bla, bla, bla You seem to think belief in common ancestry is the only aspect of identity?? Infact, I think I should be jamming in Mecca right now, afterall that's where my forefathers were from.

And that thing about finding out where they're from, it's simply people being adventurous, it's not like they pick up traditions when they find out, nah, they go sober for two days, and voila, they're black American again.
These people have forged a different culture that takes bits from both the Western culture and remains of the African heritage and forged a new form of ethnic identity that even you cannot identify with.
At the end of the day, Martin Luther King is one of the most recognisable names in America . . . and he ain't African, he's African[b]American[/b].\

They don't pick it up because it is way too late, frankly has no relevance in their day to day life and they are set in their ways. If they have an option, they would prefer their identity but they have learnt to accept their fate and destiny which is not that bad.

Humans have a psychological limit of what they will fight for.

eldee:

4. Yes nah, see this old papa ooh

O iti da mo. You never see my pictures. 

eldee:

Ban Ki Moon is a Havard graduate, his Anglais is better than mine.

What has Harvard graduate got to do with anything? You said you do not want your kid to have a bush accent by having a local language as first language because you think it will affect their progress in English fluency which will risk their future/life.

If your English accent is worse than this, then I wonder how you want to teach you pikins those fone wey you want make them speak:

[flash=450,300]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/i3X70Jwzf7A[/flash]

The man can't pronounce "tuberculosis" but yet is a respected UN Sec Gen. His local accent has not stopped him on the world stage.

Don't forget that OBJ was a strong contender for UN Sec Gen job, and he has an accent.

Sergei Brin (Google founder) first langauge is Russian and he is fluent in English.

Jerry Yang (Yahoo founder) first langauge is Chinese and he is fluent in English.

Bayo Ogunlesi (Top IB banker) first langauge is Yoruba and he is fluent in English.

Chinua Achebe (Top novelist) first langauge is Ibo and he is fluent in English.

Tidjane Thiam (Top strategist) first langauge is from CIV and he is not fluent in English.

All of these people have lived and succeeded in UK or USA with a local language as their first language.

I can go on and on and on with names.

Their parents did not "risk" their lives as you think it is if a parent allows a child to have a local language as first language. They, like millions of Nigerians with a local first langauge and good education, can get a job and excel in life without having to lose their identity.

Your problem right from the start is that you jumped into conclusions by using the poor Nigerians you look down on (your mother couldn't bare you having Egbado accent) as your proof that accent from first language affects progress. NO!

Lack of adequate upbring and support academically is what will affect progress. Even those with English as first language, that are white in the UK, still struggle when the two aforementioned are present in their lives. It is not because they have a Yoruba accent.

eldee:

Believe it or not, American music has over-influenced the Nigerian Music scene . . . Pop is Western, Tuface is a pop artiste, so whatchu talking bout??
Don't use the Nigerian Entertainment industry to back up that point, that's a simple piece of advice.

It has influenced, just as African beats have influenced some American music. That is music.

Yahoozee, Jagajaga, Danfo Driver, Timaya, Gongo Aso are undeniably Nigerian. And that is what is selling out Africa wide.

eldee:

5. You really want to go into a football argument with me??
I used 'worship' for Ukraine, first hand experience . . .

And your argument is getting weaker by the minute, does it have to be worshipped to be a regarded as a global event??
Mister, you're stepping more and more into my comfort zone, aiite let me explain to you, over 600 million homes watch the EPL every week, now, we forgot to count the African countries where people have viewing centres and pubs to watch football. These 600 million homes have regular followers.

An estimated 1 billion people watch the two Arsenal Vs Man Utd matches every season, the rest are the passive followers.
And you say this is not Globalisation??

Brazilians will rather watch Corinthians vs Vasco da Gama anyday
Argentines will rather watch River Plate vs Boca Juniors anyday
Ukrainians would rather watch Kiev vs Donesk anyday
Nigerians would rather watch Man U vs Arsenal anyday (vacuum filled)

eldee:

6. I've told you to stop using your success story as a case-study for the wider population.
Various researchers have put time and effort into proving my point and you're busy telling me bout how you met Sir Alan Sugar

90% of high-flying Nigerian boys in the UK I know will blow into their Yoruba/Igbo or whatever anytime. That is talkless of the HSMP Nigerians expats. I party with them and dance yahoozee with them.

Having a local language as their first language has not hindered their progress and they know where they are from and they know their stuff at work.

Their parents didn't have to force them to speak only English first to get them there. And the ones that the parents probably did did not have a record of doing better in life, rather they lost out on thier identity and some are still trying to get it back now.

@ Sagamite

Long time bros ! I sent you an urgent email,please reply as soon as you can. Thanks

Hi kadman,

Nice to hear from you.

I will pick it up and reply ASAP.

Regards.

eldee:

2. For someone that claims to be a strategist, I'm not surprised that with the you assume a lot.
Anyways, why do you think I'm comfortable with that??

3. Bla, bla, bla You seem to think belief in common ancestry is the only aspect of identity?? Infact, I think I should be jamming in Mecca right now, afterall that's where my forefathers were from.

Sagamite those highlighted are they English? Wonder what your mum thought you.

UN SEC GEN speaks English more that you? Then you are a failure as far as English Lang is concerned. You better go and learn Ishan and Yoruba to belong somewhere dude. Again what has going to HU got to do with the argument?.

A fair mixture of both will do.

1. I named different sources and mentioned countless researchers . . . attack the message not the messenger. The Sun only tried out what many other sources have confirmed, in other words, the research, not Rupert Murdock is high in reliability.

Good point . . . thing is, Offsted reports have come out every now and then to point out that schools with more ESL pupils attain poorer grades, even the schools come out to agree with this.
Now that's the UK, problems like that are attended to as soon as possible . . . apply that same scenario to a school in Lagos. Nigerian schools don't have time to give extra attention, they just label them as dumb kids, end product?? Self-fulfilling prophesy.
When this comes into play, people like you just call it 'poor edcational system' but you forget that we have as much influence on the social institutions.

3. Same way I should be blending into my Saudi identity, but I'm not, because my forefathers decided to leave Mecca for Ife over a tiny little riot.
What?? You think I won't prefer to live with the Saudi customs?? But nah, it's too late, we already invented a new identity.
You get my drift ??

4. Egbon . . . leave fine-boy for youngers like us,your era's gone jare

5. This UN Sec-Gen speaks two major world languages, his communication abilities will probably trash everyone else on this thread.
That comes to my point, Yourba will not help anyone outside Nigeria, why risk my english for that??

You want to play the name-game??

Unemployment in the UK is highest among the ESL communities.
Millions of Nigerians end up unemployed after schooling because they lack fluency in English.
That's a proven FACT. You can mention all the names you want but I'll drop facts here like Rafa did to Fergie.

6. Tell me you're just trying to be the devil's advocate here, because this your argument against globalisation is irrelevant.
You are an intelligent man, if I wanted to go into needless arguments, chikeobi is not too far away.
Global influence, which is stronger, Nigerian music VS American Music?? You're here telling me Jagajaga??

7. I don't know how to explain to you that globalisation is the only reason why millions of people will be watching the same thing in 200 countries at different time zones all around the world.
You're begining to sound less Sagamite and more chikeobi

chikeobi:

Sagamite those highlighted are they English? Wonder what your mum thought you.

UN SEC GEN speaks English more that you? Then you are a failure as far as English Lang is concerned. You better go and learn Ishan and Yoruba to belong somewhere dude. Again what has going to HU got to do with the argument?.

It's obvious that you totally incapable of engaging in a reasonable debate . . . hell I'll put my money on Paris Hilton to beat you in a chess match.
What is wrong with 'belief in common ancestry'??

You want to question my English when you cannot write in basic sentence in Anglais to save your mum's life.
'UN SEC GEN speaks English more than you?' . . . damn, these blasts hit faster than Pacquiao's hooks

native language. But they should not forget teaching them english

I hold the believe that every child that belong to a family irrespective of tribe will understand  his/her local language-mother tongue in as mush that people in the community speak it. For, parent i believe English language should be used at home to train up the child and in later life when the child grow s up to maturity automatically he/she will understand the native language. more so English language gives a child courage an hedge among contemporaries.

obadairo:

I hold the believe that every child that belong to a family irrespective of tribe will understand  his/her local language-mother tongue in as mush that people in the community speak it. For, parent i believe English language should be used at home to train up the child and in later life when the child grow s up to maturity automatically he/she will understand the native language. more so English language gives a child courage an hedge among contemporaries.

Number 1 - The logic in this argument is pathetic.

Number 2 - If this is the English (including the structure) you were taught at home to, in as "mush"(sic), give you "an hedge"(sic) over your contemporaries, then Lord have mercy.

We shouldnt abandon our native dialect in favor of English language, no matter what! We have to recognize our roots. Come, look at some of these chinese, and mexican folks who express a sense of pride in conversing in their native language and some dont even give a hoot about their mastery of English language. Yet, they are surviving in the USA, they get good jobs and all that. I went for an interview some months ago for a position in advertising/sales, and the woman who interviewed me, one (I think) Mexican woman. Gosh, she was so hoity toity, because of what? She was the manager, yet, her English was not that fluent, but she is a manager at this organization. Yet, I did not get the job, even though I can at least speak passable English. So, folks back home who are tempted to think that speaking the queen's language is a gateway to a great job with perks in America are obviously suffering from inferiority complex.

obadairo:

I hold the believe that every child that belong to a family irrespective of tribe will understand  his/her local language-mother tongue in as mush that people in the community speak it. For, parent i believe English language should be used at home to train up the child and in later life when the child grow s up to maturity automatically he/she will understand the native language. more so English language gives a child courage an hedge among contemporaries.

true talk especially @ bolded.

Most kids who speak English in the home, are still able to understand their mother tongue as long as they interact with people who speak it around them.

I've noticed kids in particular will understand the parent's language to some extent even if they cant speak it. There are so many Nigerians born and raised abroad who dont speak their parents' language but can understand when it's spoken.

And when you go to Nigeria, you learn the language by hook or by crook.

If the parents are worried about their children being ridiculed by other Naijas if they dont speak the language, the kids will still be ridiculed anyway, for being foreign and having foreign mannerisms. Its something they just have to learn to deal with.

which ever is suitable for u to use with ur kids. it only matters to the extent that u personally want it to

tpiah:

true talk especially @ bolded.

Most kids who speak English in the home, are still able to understand their mother tongue as long as they interact with people who speak it around them.

I've noticed kids in particular will understand the parent's language to some extent even if they cant speak it. There are so many Nigerians born and raised abroad who dont speak their parents' language but can understand when it's spoken.

And when you go to Nigeria, you learn the language by hook or by crook.

If the parents are worried about their children being ridiculed by other Naijas if they dont speak the language, the kids will still be ridiculed anyway, for being foreign and having foreign mannerisms. Its something they just have to learn to deal with.

I highly doubt a child's inability to speak their native dialect in Nigeria will be scorned. Rather, they will be embraced and held to high standards for not being 'local' but being an ajebutta.

Ndipe:

I highly doubt a child's inability to speak their native dialect in Nigeria will be scorned. Rather, they will be embraced and held to high standards for not being 'local' but being an ajebutta.

I meant they'll still be ridiculed even if they speak their parents language.

Because their attitude and behavior will be different.


This happens until they learn how to blend in, and can still continue afterwards.


maybe some parts of Nigeria dont have this problem sha.

tpiah:



I meant they'll still be ridiculed even if they speak their parents language.

Because their attitude and behavior will be different.


This happens until they learn how to blend in, and can still continue afterwards.


maybe some parts of Nigeria dont have this problem sha.

I dont know which part of Nigeria you hail from, but as an Akwa Ibomite, I can tell you with utmost confidence that such a child will not be ridiculed, but will be upheld as the dream child every parent would yearn for, especially if they are verbose in English language, and totally refrain from anything relatable to the indigenous culture.

Ndipe:

I dont know which part of Nigeria you hail from, but as an Akwa Ibomite, I can tell you with utmost confidence that such a child will not be ridiculed, but will be upheld as the dream child every parent would yearn for, especially if they are verbose in English language, and totally refrain from anything relatable to the indigenous culture.

tpiah is not talking about what the old parents and village thinks.
she's speaking from the child's perspective and how they will blend in with their peers and keep from ridicule.

dream child this, ideal child that. always comparing ur kids with other parent's children

If the parents are worried about their children being ridiculed by other Naijas if they dont speak the language, the kids will still be ridiculed anyway, for being foreign and having foreign mannerisms. Its something they just have to learn to deal with.

according to ndipe, the parents are not worried for the kids. they're worried abt themselves and how they'll become the envy of the village. lol