huxley:

Part 1


Part 2

Part 3

What this guy is trying to say in a metaphorical way is that what he is spewing from his gob is utterly meaningless. He couldn't drop the hint more heavily. The video is actually entitled Meaninglessness. lol.

But on a more serious note. This guy hasn't thought through what he is trying to say properly at all. He reminds me of the way I used to think when I was a teenager and in my twenties.

1)I think that the first thing that he has got to realise is that MEANING is a reference. Meaning Means reference/inference. What do I mean by that? When you ask me what I mean you are in fact asking to what am I refering. If I said to you 'Je suis medicin' and you asked what does that Mean, and someone explained that it means that 'I am a doctor', basically that Means that the French words 'Je suis medicin' is connected and signifies and is a reference to the english words 'I am a doctor'. Meaning is a reference. It implies that there is an interconnectivity between different object and events in the world.

For example, The sky is grey with dark clouds. This MEANS that it is going to rain. The event of rainfall is intimately connected to the event of the darkening of the skies, such that one can be said to mean the other. If I make marks and sigils (alphabets) on a computer screen those sigils are a reference to something else whether concepts or words or whatever. The writings are therefore said to have meaning.

2)The quest for meaning is actually an instinct. It can be overridden (as he obviously noticed) by such occasions as the birth of his baby. However Human beings have an instinctive need for meaning. It is hard wired into the way our brain works. If you witnessed something that didn't make sense to you, your first instinctive reaction would be to try to make sense out of it. The fact that you are making sense suggests that it is a creative process that occurs in the brain and not something that is inherent in the event itself.

This instinct for meaning, for finding connections between events, is the driving force of modern scientific inquiry. We seek to understand the interconnections between events because we instinctively believe that events are interconnected, ie they make reference and point to each other. This is a big subject in it's own right based around Causality etc. It seems the belief in causality is instinctive even before we see any kind of proper evidence for it.

Not only do Science seek the way actual events refer to each other. There is a deeper instinct in ALL humans that makes us act as if (if not believe) that events we observe also refer to other events that we do not observe and we can never ever observe. Examples of these events include Theories (scientific and otherwise), Laws (scientific and otherwise), concepts, abstractions etc etc etc.

Rocks fall to the Earth Means that there is something called Force that is pulling the Rock to the earth. Now, no one has ever seen a force, gravitational or other wise. We see events that Imply (point to) the existence of such a thing as force.

I feel like I'm rambling, but this guy is so wrong on such a basic level that it is hard to address any specific points. It is the whole general premise of his arguments that just leave me spinning.
I guess I should have stopped watching from about the 58th second where he talks about the meaning of life. Since the entirety of my existence and experiences is MY LIFE how can my life have meaning. What is left for life to be referring to since life is all I am? A part of one's life can have meaning but not Life in it's entirety.

Then he confuses things further when he says Meaning is something external that 'gives life purpose and content'. Please just what does that Statement mean?

I ain't watching any of the other parts.

The guy who started this thread has abandoned it as he is wont to do. Or maybe it's a metaphorical demonstration of meaninglessness. All contributions are meaningless and anyone who bothers to concern themselves with the issues posted is just wasting his meaningless time.

Hello Huxley, Long time no see, i have been busy keeping body soul and family together. I am unable to access your links cause of the terrible connection i have, but from Pastor AIQ's response, i get the drift. And I agree partially with the pastor. Please i want to to get a very good book i am reading right now on the meaning of existence itself from a scientific angle. You will love it.
The title of the book is " The Dancing Wu Li Masters", it tallies with what pastor is trying to say. Also i suggest pastor should read it also.

Pastor AIO:

What this guy is trying to say in a metaphorical way is that what he is spewing from his gob is utterly meaningless. He couldn't drop the hint more heavily. The video is actually entitled Meaninglessness. lol.

But on a more serious note. This guy hasn't thought through what he is trying to say properly at all. He reminds me of the way I used to think when I was a teenager and in my twenties.

1)I think that the first thing that he has got to realise is that MEANING is a reference. Meaning Means reference/inference. What do I mean by that? When you ask me what I mean you are in fact asking to what am I refering. If I said to you 'Je suis medicin' and you asked what does that Mean, and someone explained that it means that 'I am a doctor', basically that Means that the French words 'Je suis medicin' is connected and signifies and is a reference to the english words 'I am a doctor'. Meaning is a reference. It implies that there is an interconnectivity between different object and events in the world.

For example, The sky is grey with dark clouds. This MEANS that it is going to rain. The event of rainfall is intimately connected to the event of the darkening of the skies, such that one can be said to mean the other. If I make marks and sigils (alphabets) on a computer screen those sigils are a reference to something else whether concepts or words or whatever. The writings are therefore said to have meaning.

2)The quest for meaning is actually an instinct. It can be overridden (as he obviously noticed) by such occasions as the birth of his baby. However Human beings have an instinctive need for meaning. It is hard wired into the way our brain works. If you witnessed something that didn't make sense to you, your first instinctive reaction would be to try to make sense out of it. The fact that you are making sense suggests that it is a creative process that occurs in the brain and not something that is inherent in the event itself.

This instinct for meaning, for finding connections between events, is the driving force of modern scientific inquiry. We seek to understand the interconnections between events because we instinctively believe that events are interconnected, ie they make reference and point to each other. This is a big subject in it's own right based around Causality etc. It seems the belief in causality is instinctive even before we see any kind of proper evidence for it.

Not only do Science seek the way actual events refer to each other. There is a deeper instinct in ALL humans that makes us act as if (if not believe) that events we observe also refer to other events that we do not observe and we can never ever observe. Examples of these events include Theories (scientific and otherwise), Laws (scientific and otherwise), concepts, abstractions etc etc etc.

Rocks fall to the Earth Means that there is something called Force that is pulling the Rock to the earth. Now, no one has ever seen a force, gravitational or other wise. We see events that Imply (point to) the existence of such a thing as force.

I feel like I'm rambling, but this guy is so wrong on such a basic level that it is hard to address any specific points. It is the whole general premise of his arguments that just leave me spinning.
I guess I should have stopped watching from about the 58th second where he talks about the meaning of life. Since the entirety of my existence and experiences is MY LIFE how can my life have meaning. What is left for life to be referring to since life is all I am? A part of one's life can have meaning but not Life in it's entirety.

Then he confuses things further when he says Meaning is something external that 'gives life purpose and content'. Please just what does that Statement mean?

I ain't watching any of the other parts.

I saw this and took and deep breath and a long sighed for the sheer vacuity of the above.

Meaning in this sense is synonimous with PURPOSE not linguistic meaning as in "What is the meaning of the word allegro". Let me simplify it for you with the following questions:

1) What is the purpose of the life of an ameoba or a lion or a kangaroo or a chimpazee? These organisms have life, I suppose. So what is the purpose of their life?

2) Amid the vastness of the cosmos, to what extend is life in the universe meaningful in the grand scale of the universe?

3) Wind the clock back 100 millions years when dinosaurs roamed the planet. What was the meaning of life then? If there was no meaning then, at what point did meaning emerge?

wirinet:

Hello Huxley, Long time no see, i have been busy keeping body soul and family together. I am unable to access your links cause of the terrible connection i have, but from Pastor AIQ's response, i get the drift. And I agree partially with the pastor. Please i want to to get a very good book i am reading right now on the meaning of existence itself from a scientific angle. You will love it.
The title of the book is " The Dancing Wu Li Masters", it tallies with what pastor is trying to say. Also i suggest pastor should read it also.

Hello Wirinet. Nice to see you again. Hope you are well.

It is a shame you are not able to access the links above as I feel the author touches on some very pertinent points. The Pastor's response above misss the mark completely and I would urge you to visit these links to get the picture for yourself.

As per the book you suggested above, I first became aware of it about a month ago when I saw a fellow passenger in a train reading it. I later check the reviews on Amazon, only to discover that it is a blend of science and eastern religion and mysticism. These sort of books are fast becoming fashionable, satisfying a desire for those unfulfilled by traditional religion. It would be presumptious to dismiss it offhand without reading it myself, but I generally do not read such books. Could you oblige me by sharing some of the most cogent lessons you have learnt form this book?

huxley:

I saw this and took and deep breath and a long sighed for the sheer vacuity of the above.

Meaning in this sense is synonimous with PURPOSE not linguistic meaning as in "What is the meaning of the word allegro". Let me simplify it for you with the following questions:

1) What is the purpose of the life of an ameoba or a lion or a kangaroo or a chimpazee? These organisms have life, I suppose. So what is the purpose of their life?

2) Amid the vastness of the cosmos, to what extend is life in the universe meaningful in the grand scale of the universe?

3) Wind the clock back 100 millions years when dinosaurs roamed the planet. What was the meaning of life then? If there was no meaning then, at what point did meaning emerge?

As I am too vacuous for you, I will need you to explain to me in the most simplistic terms what are the fundamental differences between Meaning as in a reference, and Meaning as in Purpose. While you're at it perhaps you could squeeze in a definition of Intent too.

hi, my name is ola, i saw your most mind boggling question you posted, indeed it affects all mankind that has life, in case you forget, you asked that what is the purpose of life, yes ! I have asked this questions from almost all religious bodies but they end up asking the same question.

well from my personal research, i find that the answer to this question is not hidden or far away from us.
we can find answer to this question, Many feel that it is up to the individual to determine for himself the purpose of life. By contrast, some who believe in evolution teach that there is no ultimate meaning in life.

Really, though, the most logical way to discover the purpose of life is to consult the Life-Giver, Jehovah God. Consider what his Word has to say on the subject

What the Bible Says

A person needs a clearly defined purpose in life
The Bible teaches that Jehovah God had a specific purpose for man and woman when he created them. Jehovah gave the following command to our original parents.

Genesis 1:28. “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

God purposed that Adam and Eve and their children make the whole earth a paradise. He did not intend that humans grow old and die; nor did he want mankind to harm the environment. However, because of the poor choices made by our first parents, we have inherited sin and death. (Genesis 3:2-6; Romans 5:12) Even so, Jehovah’s purpose has not changed. Soon the earth will be a paradise.—Isaiah

Jehovah created us with both the physical and the intellectual capacity to fulfill his purpose. He did not create us to live independently of him. Note how God’s purpose for us is defined in the following Bible passages.

Ecclesiastes 12:13. “The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments. For this is the whole obligation of man.”
Micah 6:8. “What is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?”

Matthew 22:37-39. “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’”
How the Bible’s Answer Brings Real Peace of Mind

Jesus teaches us how to gain peace of mind
For any complex piece of machinery to work properly, it must be used for the purpose and in the manner that its maker intended. Likewise, if we are to avoid damaging ourselves—be it spiritually, mentally, emotionally, or physically—we need to use our life in the way that our Maker intended. Consider how our knowing God’s purpose can bring us peace of mind in the following areas of life.

When establishing priorities, many today devote their lives to accumulating wealth. However, “those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and hurtful desires,” warns the Bible.—1 Timothy 6:9, 10.

On the other hand, those who learn to love God rather than money discover the secret of contentment. (1 Timothy 6:7, They appreciate the value of hard work and know that they have an obligation to provide for their own physical needs. (Ephesians 4:28) But they also take seriously Jesus’ words of caution: “No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches.”—Matthew 6:24.

Therefore, instead of making secular work or the pursuit of wealth their top priority, those who love God make the doing of his will their primary concern in life. They know that if their life revolves around the doing of God’s will, then Jehovah God will take care of them. In fact, Jehovah considers himself honor-bound to do so.—Matthew 6:25-33.

When dealing with people, many put themselves first. Today, the world lacks peace, in large measure because so many people have become “lovers of themselves, . . . having no natural affection.” (2 Timothy 3:2, 3) When someone disappoints them or disagrees with their viewpoint, they give vent to “anger and wrath and screaming and abusive speech.” (Ephesians 4:31) Rather than bringing peace of mind, such a lack of self-control only “stirs up contention.”—Proverbs 15:18.

By contrast, those who obey God’s command to love their neighbor as themselves are “kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving one another.” (Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:13) Even when others do not treat them kindly, they endeavor to imitate Jesus, who when being reviled “did not go reviling in return.” (1 Peter 2:23) Like Jesus, they appreciate that it brings true fulfillment to serve others, even those who may not appreciate what is being done for them. (Matthew 20:25-28; John 13:14, 15; Acts 20:35) Jehovah God gives his spirit to those who imitate his Son, and this spirit produces in their life a genuine sense of peace.—Galatians 5:22.

huxley:

Hello Wirinet. Nice to see you again. Hope you are well.

It is a shame you are not able to access the links above as I feel the author touches on some very pertinent points. The Pastor's response above misss the mark completely and I would urge you to visit these links to get the picture for yourself.

As per the book you suggested above, I first became aware of it about a month ago when I saw a fellow passenger in a train reading it. I later check the reviews on Amazon, only to discover that it is a blend of science and eastern religion and mysticism. These sort of books are fast becoming fashionable, satisfying a desire for those unfulfilled by traditional religion. It would be presumptious to dismiss it offhand without reading it myself, but I generally do not read such books. Could you oblige me by sharing some of the most cogent lessons you have learnt form this book?

Hello huxley'
Sorry i could not respond earlier, i was out of station for a few days and only got back yesterday.

Although i am only half way through the book, i have not seen it as a science, eastern religion and mysticism. Also i do not agree with some of its assertions and conclusions but it explains perfectly, the link between the material universe and our effect on it.

My friend i have read a lot of books, and i understand physics and the relativistic aspect of particle physics extremely well. and i am coming to terms with quantum physics right now, and it is excitingly mind boggling. Please read more on quantum physics and you will discover that is postulations are in the realm of science fiction, but it has been experimentally confirmed to be the most accurate model of the sub atomic universe. I know you will find it hard to accept (even einstein, a co-discoverer of quantum mechanics disagreed with its conclusions until its death, and is regarded as the greatest mistake Einstein made). Since you said you are studying cosmology, i would urge you to read the book, and on quantum mechanics in general.

Later my friend.

huxley:

I saw this and took and deep breath and a long sighed for the sheer vacuity of the above.

Meaning in this sense is synonimous with PURPOSE not linguistic meaning as in "What is the meaning of the word allegro". Let me simplify it for you with the following questions:

1) What is the purpose of the life of an ameoba or a lion or a kangaroo or a chimpazee? These organisms have life, I suppose. So what is the purpose of their life?

2) Amid the vastness of the cosmos, to what extend is life in the universe meaningful in the grand scale of the universe?

3) Wind the clock back 100 millions years when dinosaurs roamed the planet. What was the meaning of life then? If there was no meaning then, at what point did meaning emerge?

Pastor AIO:

As I am too vacuous for you, I will need you to explain to me in the most simplistic terms what are the fundamental differences between Meaning as in a reference, and Meaning as in Purpose. While you're at it perhaps you could squeeze in a definition of Intent too.

Since you will not bite I'll offer to explain why they are essentially the same and to see a difference is actually an indication of superficiality.

Meaning suggests that there is a connection between different events, whereby one event implies another.

One of the things that confers meaning on events is a Purpose or an Intent. There is a connection between boiling a pot of water and drinking of cup of tea. Recognising this I can go and boil myself a pot of water with the INTENT of making myself a cup of tea. If you walked into my kitchen and see a pot of water boiling you might ask, "What is the meaning of all this"? To which I might respond, ' Oh, I was thirsty and wanted a cup of tea'.

I repeat that we instinctively believe that there is a connection between events in the cosmos and that the impulse for scientific discovery is driven by this belief that there is a connection between events. The structure of those connections are the laws of the cosmos.

Purpose or Intent attempts to bring about a particular event by performing prior events. The prior event is performed because it is connected to the eventual desired event.

Now, is there Intent in the universe? As a human being, would you say that your actions were full of intent. Why would you see intent in the actions of humans but not in the other events that occur in the world? What makes human behaviour different from the other events that occur in the world?

Intent gives a perspective and a context to events.

Ostensible Meaning is a function of context! To a man desperately trying to get to the other side of town. A traffic jam means delay.

To a guy who doesn't actually want to be at work the same traffic jam is the perfect excuse for lateness.

To a civil engineer the traffic jam could indicate serious flaws in the planning of the city.

All these meanings are valid. Just because they are not absolute and pertain to everyone does not mean that they do not actually exist or that there is no meaning in the world. It means that Meaning is a lot more subtle than you realise.

Meaning (ostensible) in a particular context is a derivation and an extrapolation from Essential meaning.

LIFE
In the Bible, is either natural, Ge 3:17; spiritual, that of the renewed soul, Ro 8:6; or eternal, a holy and blissful immortality, Joh 3:36; Ro 6:23. Christ is the great Author of natural life, Col 1:16; and also of spiritual and eternal life; Joh 14:6; 6:47. He has purchased these by laying down his own life; and gives them freely to his people, Joh 10:11,28. He is the spring of all their spiritual life on earth, Ga 2:20; will raise them up at the last day; and make them partakers for ever of his own life, Joh 11:25; 14:19.

Pastor AIO:


All these meanings are valid. Just because they are not absolute and pertain to everyone does not mean that they do not actually exist or that there is no meaning in the world. It means that Meaning is a lot more subtle than you realise.

Meaning (ostensible) in a particular context is a derivation and an extrapolation from Essential meaning.

I want to address what I said in bold above about meaning being more subtle than you realise and connect it to the other thread about critical thinking. To think critically one has to be aware of subtleties in an issue rather than making sweeping blanket statements.

ps. I don't see why this thread can be in the religion section yet the Thread on critical thinking is moved out of the religion section.

@huxley , bla bla bla bla . . .still 2morrow you can't get the meaning - bla bla bla . . .

Life has no meaning without the HOLY BIBLE: the True WORD of GOD

Life has no meaning without Jesus Christ

Life has no meaning without Life - Jesus is Life. We Love You Lord!

God the begining of Life and End of life

Huxley,

Life is a transition. The meaning of life is tied on two ends and if you understand those two ends then you will understand the transition in between them.

1. Birth; 2. Death.

Do you understand these two ?