So when Christ paid tax, he "venerated" the people he paid it to? Why are trying to justify your idolatrous practices with something so irrelevant?

Christ paid tax to the church.But your Criminal pastors claim that those who dont pay tithes have robbed God thus making themselves as intermediaries between God and man.

The question is how can yopu pay tithe to God through your pastors yet can't pray to God through them?

Abi when prayers are involved ,it is only for God but when money is involved the pastors come in.bloody hypocrites

So if tithing is so bad, then why did God introduce it in the first place? Was it bad then?

Do a research on those churches that practice tithing, and those who don't and see the difference in terms of growth and development.

I have no problem with systematic giving. The bible says tithing is "holy unto the Lord". Malachi says "if a man refuses to pay tithes he is a robber. "Can a man rob God" asked the prophet? What was the response of the man of God? Read thus:

Malachi 3:8,9 "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."

God said it, its either you believe or you don't.

why did God introduce burnt offering and other jewish rites in the face place/

The scripture explicitly states that the law of moses came to an end with the death and ressurection of Jesus.

All the mosaic laws are consequently abolished (ephesians 2:15,heb 7:18)

Malachi chapter 1 made mention of burnt offerings but noboby is talking about it .bloody criminals even while the jews tithed ,it never involved money and was never a monthly affair.

@ Chukwudi

why did God introduce burnt offering and other jewish rites in the face place/

In order to illustrate the plan of salvavtion that one day the Messiah would have to shed His blood to save humankind.

The scripture explicitly states that the law of moses came to an end with the death and ressurection of Jesus. All the mosaic laws are consequently abolished (ephesians 2:15,heb 7:18)

But unfortunately for you is that the tithing principle predated Moses. Abraham who was not under Moses paid a tithe to Melchizedeck. Joseph also paid a tithe to God.

Malachi chapter 1 made mention of burnt offerings but noboby is talking about it .bloody criminals even while the jews tithed ,it never involved money and was never a monthly affair.

Nobody is talking about that simply because tithing is the topic.

The scripture explicitly states that the law of moses came to an end with the death and ressurection of Jesus.

All the mosaic laws are consequently abolished  (ephesians 2:15,heb 7:18)

Chukwudi, now I know why most Catholics are seen as ignorant hypocrites. When justifying your idolatrous practice of making images and bowing to them, you passionately point to events that happened under the Mosaic law. Now that you want to prove another point, you say the same law is irrelevant

Tithing has been confirmed to be a fraud on chritians on several threads on this forum i wonder why people insist on being scammed. After verifying that it is a scm they now start looking for vague scriptures to justify it such as abraham's one off tithe of war booty that was not his own propety in the first instance. It is really nauseating that some people would prefer to wallow in their stupidity and continue falling mugun even when the biblical truth has been revealed to them.

Me, I'm thinking of killing a fatted calf this afternoon for the remission of my sins. Don't tell me that such sacrifice has been abolished with the mosaic law.

Do you not know that killing of calves predates Moses. Kai, Even since the time of Cain and Abel, was it not the calf of Abel that was acceptable to God. That was before moses.

gen2genius:

Chukwudi, you have come again with shameless display of ignorance. When Jesus paid Temple Tax, did he throw it to God in heaven?

I think we should also consider why Jesus paid his Temple taxes. It was a move designed to keep the peace. He did it so as not to offend people. Not because he thought that there was anything to it.

But unfortunately for you is that the tithing principle predated Moses. Abraham who was not under Moses paid a tithe to Melchizedeck. Joseph also paid a tithe to God.

[quote][/quote]

Mr man circumcission predated moses  yet st Paul vehemently condemmed it as part of the mosaic law since it was equally included .
Also the tithe Abraham paid to melchizedek was done just once,it was out of his own freewill and it never involved money.

If your criminal pastors claim they receive thier tithes in the order of melchizedek ,why don't they quote that passsage where Abraham paid it once yet they continue quoting malach who was talking about the now outlawed levitical tithe.

Mind you melchizedek was not an ordinary human being ,he might as weell have been the pre- incarnate Jesus because we were told he had no begining and end and his priesthood continues forever.We were also told he was greater than Abraham

Chukwudi, now I know why most Catholics are seen as ignorant hypocrites. When justifying your idolatrous practice of making images and bowing to them, you passionately point to events that happened under the Mosaic law. Now that you want to prove another point, you say the same law is irrelevant

[quote][/quote]

The mosaic law requires the images of winged creatures for the temple design ,under the new law it has been replaced with the images of Jesus and the saints.But unlike the mosaic law the new law does not make it compulsory that churches must be decorated with images of christ and the saints on the other hand it does not as well out law them.

Still, you're displaying ignorance. When proving to us that the Mosaic laws have been abolished, you quoted copiously from the Bible. Now, could you quote just ONE passage in the New Testament that supports this view:

The mosaic law requires the images of winged creatures for the temple design ,under the new law it has been replaced with the images of Jesus and the saints

I'm waiting for your "learned" response. Nowhere for idolaters to hide, NOWHERE!

Why dont you prove from the scripture to show that use of images have been abolished.

This is the last time Iwould talk about images here ,If you want us to discuss that create another thread for that this thread is about tithes,.If you want to justify tithes just showme one bible passage where christians(not jews) paid or received tithes. Show me a passage in the NT where Jesus or rhe Apostles paid or received tithes.

I'm not an advocate of forcing anyone to pay any money to God or anybody. So if you think you can start a debate on that with me, you're wasting your time

Now you're saying Mosaic laws have been abolished but making graven images for worship have not been abolished. Funny. Was it not under the Mosaic laws that the Isrealites were commaded to make the winged creatures you mentioned? And if the laws have been abolished, how does that exclude the law to make graven images? Are you so confused?

And as for your question,

Why dont you prove from the scripture to show that use of images have been abolished.

Here is what God says of you:

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, " (Romans 1:21-26).

Man is corruptible. Only God is incorruptible and deserves your worship!
Hope that enlightens you and delivers you from the yoke of idolatry

Here is something to consider:

Take the following True or False quiz to see how much you really understand about tithing. We predict that many of you will be surprised. Record your answers.

1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithe, True or False?

2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught, True or False?

3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed, True or False?

4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ, True or False?

5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe, True or False?

6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible, True or False?

7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests, True or False?

8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent, True or False?

9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament, True or False?

10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone, True or False?

Bonus Question: The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income, True or False?

Here are the answers:

1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithed of His income. This one is false. The Lord Jesus Christ was a carpenter by profession and then after He became 30 years old He was a preacher and teacher. Neither of these professions was required by the Law of Moses to tithe anything.

2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught. This one is false also. Fishermen were not required to tithe anything either. There were only two kinds of professions in ancient Israel that were required to tithe. Farmers and husbandmen (shepherds and cattle herders) were the only tithers in ancient Israel. They only tithed the food they produced.

3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed. It should be evident by now that this one is false also. There were many people with other professions who were not required by the Law to tithe. For instance, the apostle Paul being a tent-maker was not required to tithe. In fact, none of the Twelve apostles would have been tithers because none of them came from the required professions.

4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ. This one is false also. Abraham’s tithe was very different than what the Church practices today. For instance, Abraham only tithed once. The Church tithes continually. Abraham tithed of the spoils of a war. The Church tithes of its income. Abraham had no increase because he gave the other 90% of the spoils of the war back to the original owner. The Church tithes of its increase. There is no commandment or any logic or indication in the New Testament that believers are to tithe anything to the Lord Jesus Christ. Believers are to give generously as God blesses them and whatever is in their heart according to Paul (2 Corinthians 9:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe. False. Christ only makes three statements about tithing. None of these statements say that His disciples should tithe anything. Christ first statement, repeated in two Gospels, is spoken to the Pharisees not to His disciples. (Mattthew 23:23, Luke 11:42) In that statement, Christ says that the Pharisees should continue to tithe mint, dill and cummin. This is a tithe of food not money. He also says that this tithe of food is a part of the Law and says that it is not even an important part of the Law. His other statement is about a self-righteous Pharisee bragging that he tithes. Christ says that the other man who was not tithing who humbled himself was justified in the sight of God. The self-righteous tither was not justified in the sight of God. This is hardly an encouragement for Christ’s disciples to tithe money.

6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible. False. In 4000 years of recorded biblical history there is not a single example of what the Church practices today in tithing money. There are two one-time acts of tithing recorded before the Law. Neither man, Abraham or Jacob, seems to think that they should continue this process beyond the one-time act. Neither man is tithing of their income since each is only involved in a one-time act. Abraham is tithing of the spoils of a war. Neither man seems to teach their children to tithe. All the other tithing recorded in the Bible is found in the Law of Moses. In the Law, money was never used to tithe only food. In fact, when someone wanted to use money rather than bring the produce to Jerusalem, God required a 20% penalty to be added. (Leviticus 27:30-31) In other words, God discouraged the tithing of money.

7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests. False. The New Testament has nothing at all to say about this. This is extra-biblical logic that is not found in the New Testament. In fact, the Book of Hebrews makes it clear that believers are not of the Levitical order of priests. Believers are of a higher order, the order of Melchizedek.

8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent. False. Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament teaches this. This is extra-biblical logic again. First of all, the food tithe in the Old Testament was not ten-percent. It was actually more like 23% annually on average. There were three tithes in the Law of Moses. The first tithe was paid only by agrarian families three times yearly at the feasts to the Priests in Jerusalem. The second tithe was saved by the agrarian families to support these trips. It was called the festival tithe. It was for a family vacation. The third tithe was given every three years to the local storehouse, so it amounted to about 3% annually. This was the poor tithe collected for those in need. This is the tithe that Malachi wrote about. None of these tithes were money. They were only food. Those who earned their livings by other occupations did not pay a tithe of anything. However, they did give offerings required by the Law some of which were in silver, gold, bronze and copper coins. Nowhere does the New Testament change this legal obligation of tithing food for some agrarian Israelites in the Law to money tithing for all Christians. This transformation of the food tithe to a money tithe is done by teaching that our harvest is our income and bringing us under a spiritualized form of the Law of Moses.

9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament, False. The poor had no harvest or flocks to tithe from. They were able to glean the corners of the field of those who were more prosperous.

10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone, False. Tithing is incredibly unfair. Ten-percent of the income of a poor person is a great burden, while ten-percent of the income of a rich person may be no burden at all. If a person only has a $1000 a month income, then $100 of that income will affect their lifestyle and may even impact their ability to take care of their children’s basic needs and pay their bills. If a person has a $10,000 a month income then giving $1,000 per month should have little affect on their lifestyle since they should have a good amount of disposable income beyond their basic needs. If a person has a $100,000 a month income, then $10,000 a month has no appreciable affect on their lifestyle at all. Some continue to teach tithing to poor persons by arguing that if the poor person will give ten-percent of their income then God will bless them. However, coming under a spiritualized form of the Law will hinder God’s blessing in finances. The poor should simply obey the Lord as He guides them in giving.

Bonus Question: The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income, False. The modern practice of tithing has five basic elements expressed as everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. How do Bible facts about tithing actually fit with this teaching? Let’s compare and contrast the modern teaching of tithing with the Bible.

Jesus NEVER paid tithe. May God forgive those whose using Christ's name to cover their ignorance.

It's better to have Christ and Saints' images than to see 'pastors and their wives' images on the walls/banners in the house/churches

Some folks had been brain washed to worship their pastor, not God. Some study their 'Bible' to form new 'church' and tithe rules and regulations.

Topic
I dont think so. . .
Jesus, did you pay tithes

What kind of thread is this?

Tithes were instituted under the Priesthood in the Old Testament. The Old Testament Laws were still in effect when JESUS was alive as a man. He could not do away with the laws of the Old Testament b/c he first had to fulfill them. JESUS has fulfilled the laws of the Old Testament, and now we are under the law of grace and truth. Now, whatever a man give is according to the grace and truth that is in his heart. The Old Testament Laws now serves as a school master and it teaches us about GOD and where HE brought the human society from. GOD said, behold the day will come that I make a New Covenant with my people. GOD/CHRIST has established the New Covenant for all churches through the APOSTLES. If we reject the APOSTLES then we reject GOD/CHRIST. There is no scripture that shows where the APOSTLES enforce tithes, but they did take offerrings for the widows and to support the needy. They did not use the money to buy and store up riches for themselves.

^^^ Don't mind these "MOG" worshiping lot jare!

Bobbyaf: I have to believe you must be a Levite to be quoting Pastors' favorite Bible Chapter Malachi 3, it must be addressed to you because it is not addressed to me either as a Christian or my Gentile status before Christ gave his life for our redemption.

Giving is fundamental to our faith but it doesn't have to be just a "Church" that receives our giving, do as your heart leads you but be sure to help the poor, orphans, widows, strangers, etc around you.

No wonder many of them will leave their parents, siblings, friends, etc hungry because they can't touch "what is for the Church"

"Be wise as serpents and gentle as doves" is our mandate from Christ himself because there are way too many wolves in sheep's clothing out there.

Shalom.

my opinion is; if the ot is irrelevant it should be discarded. But it is contrary for a god to have two testament or wills. Maybe the second is to rectify the first. Even god makes mistakes!

MrCrackles:


Topic
I dont think so. . .
Jesus, did you pay tithes

@MrCrackles

MrCrackles! You still dey?!!

Just wanna say a Joyful New Year in advance.

No oofiense

Let's leave Jesus alone. He must have given it, but either he gave it or not , there is no record in the bible. There are several things that are not recorded

Image123 « #3 on: March 07, 2009, 03:10 PM »
Did Jesus And The Apostles Pay Tithe?
Did the apostles have their bath? prove it

Ask them o. Did Jesus use under wear or perfume? Let's deal with the known area. If God wanted tithes to end , there would have been a prophecy for it. Jesus fulfilled blood sacrifices but tithing has nothing to do with what Jesus fulfilled.
Is there any where in the bible where God stopped tithing ? He spoke against burnt offerings and blood sacrifices coming to an end,but for tithe, God did not stop it. Apart from the fact that it is people's offering to God. It is also a means of making provisions for the work of ministry. If there isn't a single scripture where God condemn tithing, please bring it on.

Hebrews 7:5.They that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people ACCORDING TO THE LAW,, The purpose of Hebrews 7:5 is proof that tithes was instituted under the law, that's why you don't see it being enforced under the New Testament Church in the book of acts, but the people gave as the spirit of GOD/CHRIST moved upon them and the church received much more abundantly. GOD/CHRIST took good care of the New Testament Church with offerings from cheerful givers.

Romans 6:14. For you are not under the law, but under grace.
Galatians 5:18. But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The Mosaic Law and the carnal office of the priesthood had to be set aside. A better hope for effecting full and final removal of sin has been introduced, along with a new way of access to GOD. So if there is proof that tithes was instituted under the law and there is proof that we are no longer under the law, then judge according to scripture if tithes are still in effect.

melijah77:

Hebrews 7:5.They that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people ACCORDING TO THE LAW,, The purpose of Hebrews 7:5 is proof that tithes was instituted under the law, that's why you don't see it being enforced under the New Testament Church in the book of acts, but the people gave as the spirit of GOD/CHRIST moved upon them and the church received much more abundantly. GOD/CHRIST took good care of the New Testament Church with offerings from cheerful givers.

Romans 6:14. For you are not under the law, but under grace.
Galatians 5:18. But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The Mosaic Law and the carnal office of the priesthood had to be set aside. A better hope for effecting full and final removal of sin has been introduced, along with a new way of access to GOD. So if there is proof that tithes was instituted under the law and there is proof that we are no longer under the law, then judge according to scripture if tithes are still in effect.

(please note that this reply is not intended to ague or rubbish your opinion) thank you
Very well said, truely the law has been abrogated and set aside; how? Because Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of the law. Now the phrase “ACCORDING TO THE LAW" in the scripture above does not in actual fact suggess that the practice of tithing was "instituted" under/by the law because if you read the same verse of scripture in another translation you'd observe clearity
"And those of the descendants of Levi eho receive the priesthood are authorized by the Law to take tithes from the people, that is, from their brethren, though these have sprung from Abraham"(WNT)
The law is never credited any where in scripture for instituting the practice of tithing rather the law provided the legitimate and conducive environment it to be effectively practiced i.e if l may paraphrase: “the descendants of Levi--- by the authority of the law took tithes from the people"

Though it is true that the law has been set aside that doesn't outrightly renders everything observed under the law as obliterated as well, remember the law was only a shadow of the real, the new testament was concealed in the old and in the dispensation of the fulness of time, the old was revealed and fulfilled in the new. There are things though under the law, that were based on some generic-encompassing spiritual principles that God has set in motion which stretches beyond the regime of the law. For instance, when the law speaks about honouring your father and mother (Genesis 20:12), this didn't end with the law or do you(melijah77) on a personal ground use that as excuse to dishonour your parents no because we are even reminded not only by Jesus but by the apostle paul:

Ephesians 6:2
"Honour thy father and mother (which is the first commandment with promise)"

Also another example sited under the law is the aspect of stealing, commiting of adultery, killing, bearing false witness, to covet which today in the new testament we don't foolishly take the abrogation of the law as an excuse to begin to indulge in them or do go around killing, stealing ang sleepping with people's spouses promiscuously all in the name of " oh the law of the old testament has been set aside"? The apostle paul made some emphasis

Romans 13:9
"For this, Thou shall not commit adultery, Thou shall steal, Thou shall not bear false witness, Thou shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shall love thy neighbour as thyself"
That is they still are operative but summed up in "thou shall love thy neighbour as thysely"

Ephesian 4:28
"Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth"


Now be that as it may, it is important that we understand that tithing pre-existed the emergence of the law. The first individual recorded in scripture to have given a tithe was papa Abraham to Melchizedek described as "the king of Salam and a priest of the most high God" (Genesis 14:18-20). It is this same Melchizedek of whom it is said that the priesthood of Jesus Christ is likened to (Hebrews 6:20, "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, [even] Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek"
"having become, like Melchizedek, a high priest for ever"(WNT).
The priesthood of Jesus was not likened to those of the priest under the law but rather He bought an end to that order. Now if the priesthood of Jesus Christ is for ever after the order of Melchizedek, then the practices carried out after that order by Melchizedek lives on because the office of his priesthood knows no end.
Thank you

Since the New Covenant has been given by GOD/CHRIST why don't we let that be our judge according to what has been carried over and what has not been carried over from the laws in the O.T, Do you think if tithes was to be enforced in the New Testament that we would have some form of confirmation as other scripture in the New Testament obviously confirm back to the Old Testament? Now, we see where offerings confirm from the N. T. back to the O. T., but there is nothing in the N.T. that I see confirms tithes.

P.S. Reminder, try and be careful with other translations b/c some changes the meaning of the King James Version.

Have a commandment to take tithes of the people ACCORDING TO THE LAW. What this means to me is that whatever law they were under, it was instituted (established) as a commandment according to that law for them to take tithes. I'm thinking that this was established by Abraham since he was the first to pay a tenth of everything to the Priest Melchisedec.

As I said earlier, Jesus came against certain teachings of the law. Eg sabbath, vengeance , hating your friends etc. But he never said anything about tithing negatively. The only time he mentioned it , it was an endorsement. He said rites should be given and other things should not be neglected.

Paul also contrasted the new testament ministry of the church to the old testament ministry in the temple. The work of the ministry was fuelled by the tithes and offerings from the people and also the welfare of the sanctuary workers. The priests In the office were supported through the tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:8-10 says
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. . . . Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that[ there shall] not[ be room] enough[ to receive it].

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Tithe is 10% of your income.
The disciples were not receiving any income as in work done. http://www.ilovegodsite.com/2010/12/greater-glory-moving-to-next-level.html.

And sincerely as believers, we have much more important things discussing as searching for than weather Jesus and the apostles did paid tithe or not. remember the bible (new testament especially) is not a full detailed experience of the disciples. there are many things that are not included. therefore when it comes to tithe or no tithe, Malachi 2 is our major reference - http://www.ilovegodsite.com/

why can't anyone paste a single bible passage where christians paid tithe to buttress their arguments.There was nothing like tithe in the first 500 yrs of christianity until it was instituted by the council of macon in 585 CE

welovegod:

Tithe is 10% of your income.
The disciples were not receiving any income as in work done. http://www.ilovegodsite.com/2010/12/greater-glory-moving-to-next-level.html.

And sincerely as believers, we have much more important things discussing as searching for than weather Jesus and the apostles did paid tithe or not. remember the bible (new testament especially) is not a full detailed experience of the disciples. there are many things that are not included. therefore when it comes to tithe or no tithe, Malachi 2 is our major reference - http://www.ilovegodsite.com/

The same tactics every time! Now you are saying the new Testament is not as COMPLETE as your pastor's account, omase oooo.

WeloveGod(my God is a capital G, don't know about yours)

Are you or your pastor descendants from the tribe of Levi? Malachi 1,2,3,4 was not addressed to the Christians or gentiles and as chukwudi44 humbly asked, why can't you come up with a Biblical reference?