Trottle:
Anything related to Islam always gives this "truthman" of a guy a hardon

I'm always uncomfortable seeing people believing clear LIES in the quran. Look at the OP now, how can a reasonable person believe the quran?

truthman2012:


I'm always uncomfortable seeing people believing clear LIES in the quran. Look at the OP now, how can a reasonable person believe the quran?

A reasonble person would believe in the Quran if he or she has carefull studied it without a biased mindset.

Trottle:
A reasonble person would believe in the Quran if he or she has carefull studied it without a biased mindset.

With your unbiased mindset and a careful study of the quran, can you provide answers to the questions in the OP?

I dont argue with muslims most of the time cos i have most of them as relatives........however ive discussed with some of them on the issue of 72 virgins....
God is a spirit as they also believe, and when one dies the flesh goes to dust, the soul and spirit goes to heaven.....Now the big question is since spirits exists as neither male nor female, do spirits also have sex with each other ......many of them get dumbfounded at this point.

winner01:
I dont argue with muslims most of the time cos i have most of them as relatives........however ive discussed with some of them on the issue of 72 virgins....
God is a spirit as they also believe, and when one dies the flesh goes to dust, the soul and spirit goes to heaven.....Now the big question is since spirits exists as neither male nor female, do spirits also have sex with each other ......many of them get dumbfounded at this point.

God is "God" not a "spirit" and the Islamic God is different from what the Christian call God. (Prophet Issa).I challenge any Christian to tell me who is God according to their understanding. when we die(believe it or not) we are questioned and blessed and punished accordingly even if you buried,eaten by wild animals etc. spirits still exists and assume the gender of the deceased. I don't know of your bible preaches a "genderless" spirit but it is not present in the holy qur'an. And on the day of resurrection(at God's appointed time) humans woupd be judged according to his/her deeds. those worthy of heaven would be admitted there, vice versa. and Allah has promised the (fortunate) ones who who gets admitted into paradise what no human have heard of ,seen or their heart has concieved. so y got it wrong from where you mentioned that spirits are genderless. 'Spirts 'in Islam and Christianity is theologically different. and stop mixing christianity with Islam, they don't mix.

truthman2012:


With your unbiased mindset and a careful study of the quran, can you provide answers to the questions in the OP?

Stop tryong to distort whatever you have no knowledge of.

Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. [Qur'an 22:52]



They call this the ‘lapse’ of Muhammad (sa) (nauzubillah). This refutation will explore the sources of the missionary argument and find out if the story holds water.


Sources of the Missionary argument

The missionaries have two major sources:

(1) Ibn Sa'd
(2) Ibn Jarir al-Tabari




It is worthy to note that the alleged story was transmitted from al-Waqidi ( Muhammad Ibn Umar ) to Ibn Sa'd who was a known fabricator of events, Imam Al-Shafi'i who was a comtemporary of al-Waqidi and knew him personally has this to say :

“Al-Waqidi is a liar.”

and also:

“In Madeenah there were seven people who used to forge chains of narration. One of them was al-Waqidi.”

Imam Ibn Hanbal says thus about al-Waqidi:

“Al-Waqidi is a liar”

Imam Bukhari who collectted and compiled the most authentic book of ahadith, Shahih Bukhari said he didn't write a single letter by Al-Waqidi. So the credibility of of the story transmitted by al-Waqidi to Ibn Sa'd is zero. Now we'll turn to al-Tabari:

Al-Tabari mentions the so-called[b] 'Satanic verses'[/b] story in his Tarikh as well as an important set of statements in the introduction of his book, which states:


Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us.


( Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk p. 550.)


So what Al-Tabari is basically saying is that don't blame him if what he records sounds fishy, which makes this story unreal. Another element in why the story is not credible from al-Tabari is because , Karen Armstrong in her book Muahmmad [sa] devotes a whole chapter to this subject. In it she says Al-Tabari:

‘In his history Tabari preserves a tradition which gives a very different version of the story ’ (p.113)

Thus both transmitters of this story are unreliable.

Other Problems with the Story

Other than the reliability of the transmitters there are also many other problems with this story;

It is mentioned in the story that after reciting the so called 'Satanic Verses' verse 52 of Surah al-Hajj were revealed in connection with the story, but in reality Surah al-Hajj was revealed 7 or 8 years later which completeley shreads this story to piecies. It is obvious to any rational person that this story is pure fantasy and furthermore, Ibn Hisham who wrote an exahaustive biography of the prophet (sa) never mentiones this story at all.


References:
* Islamic-Awareness
* Karen Armstrong
* Other Texts
difference between Muhammad and Other prophet

a. A High-Quality Human Being

Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) is a human being, yet he is a very high-quality and eminent human being. This eminence has been recorded by The Supreme Creator and declared to us. When one looks at his life generally, it is seen in the first place that he acted in control by the Supreme Creator’s revelation, that he did not wait any remuneration for his duty, he was sincere to the utmost degree, he invited people to believe in Allah’s existence and oneness and that his aim and goal was immensely clear.

b. Protected

Allah the Glorious protected His Honorable Messenger from sins and made him an untainted and flawless being. He also protected him from all kinds of dangers which could come from people. He saved him and eliminated all kinds of complots resorted by enemies at many dangerous points when he faced death and it was impossible to escape.
He presented a clear example of coexistence in peace and with differences in community which is needed by our modern world and he shared the same city with people of different religions and beliefs.

c. His Prophethood is Universal

Yes, he is the last prophet. His prophethood is not limited to a country or a specific period of time; but his prophethood is a Universal one covering all times and places. Besides, he is the prophet of the jinn, too.
Not only people believing in him but also other people could not hide their admiration of his unsurpassable supreme character and respected this invaluable gift of the sky to the earth. For instance, Michael Hart put him in the first place in his book titled “The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History”. Great German Statesman Bismarck put his admiration of him into words as “O Muhammad (pbuh), I regret of not living in the same time with you!” and in International Law Congress in1927 showed their admiration in him by adding the following statement to the statement of result: “The humankind is proud of Hazrat Muhammad; because although he was illiterate, he developed such a great law system 13 centuries ago that we, the Europeans, would be happy if we could reach its value and truth two thousand years later.”


d His Miracles

The Lord of the Universe is a human being. However, he is a human being with a single finger pointing of whose the Moon divided into two, a human being in the palm of whose the pebbles talked, for whom the trees rooted off and walked towards saying “Salutations to you o the Messenger of Allah!”, a human being who filled up three hundred people with a few handfuls of date, in whose hands a jug of milk became abundant enough to fill lots of people, water flew through his fingers when he sank his fingers into a bowl and three hundred people took ablution with that water, for whom the log – on which he sermonized once upon a time until a pulpit was made for him – cried so loud that everybody heard it, a human being who was saluted by trees and stones on his way, who eased Ali’s pains by touching him and then Ali had never felt any pain again, besides whom the dumb children started to speak all of a sudden and said “You are the Messenger of Allah.” He was a human being, with whose touch the salty waters became mild, and whom even wild animals such as wolves and lions recognized and obeyed…
should I go on??

Trottle:

God is "God" not a "spirit" and the Islamic God is different from what the Christian call God. (Prophet Issa).I challenge any Christian to tell me who is God according to their understanding. when we die(believe it or not) we are questioned and blessed and punished accordingly even if you buried,eaten by wild animals etc. spirits still exists and assume the gender of the deceased. I don't know of your bible preaches a "genderless" spirit but it is not present in the holy qur'an. And on the day of resurrection(at God's appointed time) humans woupd be judged according to his/her deeds. those worthy of heaven would be admitted there, vice versa. and Allah has promised the (fortunate) ones who who gets admitted into paradise what no human have heard of ,seen or their heart has concieved. so y got it wrong from where you mentioned that spirits are genderless. 'Spirts 'in Islam and Christianity is theologically different. and stop mixing christianity with Islam, they don't mix.

They cant mix, im only being logical here. If God is not a spiritual Being, how come he isnt visible in the physical, ...the physical body is what differentiates a male from a female, what evidence is shown in the quran that spirits exists as male or female....How come sex with numerous virgins is considered a reward...seems to me the prophet was just engrossed in perversion....Or will you also say heavenly beings engage in sexual acts

I challenge all of you to provide answer to this question with biblical verse
- Who is God: Is he a human or a deity or both?
- Did God have a son or not?
- Where in the bible were the christians commanded to go to church on Sunday?
- where in the bible were you commanded to go to jerusalem for pilgrimage?
Answer to these questions any christian "intellectual"?

Trottle:
I challenge all of you to provide answer to this question with biblical verse
- Who is God: Is he a human or a deity or both?
- Did God have a son or not?
- Where in the bible were the christians commanded to go to church on Sunday?
- where in the bible were you commanded to go to jerusalem for pilgrimage?
Answer to these questions any christian "intellectual"?

is that the answer to this thread? Create your own thread, don't derail this one. Evasive strategy!

winner01:
They cant mix, im only being logical here. If God is not a spiritual Being, how come he isnt visible in the physical, ...the physical body is what differentiates a male from a female, what evidence is shown in the quran that spirits exists as male or female....How come sex with numerous virgins is considered a reward...seems to me the prophet was just engrossed in perversion....Or will you also say heavenly beings engage in sexual acts

What I was trying to differentiate is that God in Islam is Different from that of Christianity. Christians refer to Jesus(a.s) as God even though he is human (doesn't that flaws your notion of spirituality?) As humans on earth created in pairs(male and female). even when we die it doesn't change chapter 49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted". Allah did not state that humans would assume a Uni-Gender after death so individual souls still assumes its original gender while on earth.

The translation by Yusuf Ali

And all things have We preserved on record. (29)

"So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall We grant you, except in Punishment." (30)

Verily for the righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the Heart's) desires; (31)

Gardens enclosed, and Grape-vines; (32)

[/b]Companions of equal age[b]; (33)

And a Cup full (to the Brim). (34)

Humans whom were fortunate to make heaven would be granted their heart desires(sex inclusive) . So if you do not believe in 'heavenly beings' having sex then it is due to yr believe and that is your own cup of tea.

Trottle:
What I was trying to differentiate is that God in Islam is Different from that of Christianity. Christians refer to Jesus(a.s) as God even though he is human (doesn't that flaws your notion of spirituality?) As humans on earth created in pairs(male and female). even when we die it doesn't change chapter 49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted". Allah did not state that humans would assume a Uni-Gender after death so individual souls still assumes its original gender while on earth.

The translation by Yusuf Ali

And all things have We preserved on record. (29)

"So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall We grant you, except in Punishment." (30)

Verily for the righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the Heart's) desires; (31)

Gardens enclosed, and Grape-vines; (32)

[/b]Companions of equal age[b]; (33)

And a Cup full (to the Brim). (34)

Humans whom were fortunate to make heaven would be granted their heart desires(sex inclusive) . So if you do not believe in 'heavenly beings' having sex then it is due to yr believe and that is your own cup of tea.

The essence of this thread is to prove that anything the quran says about Jesus and Christianity is a lie.

truthman2012:


The essence of this thread is to prove that anything the quran says about Jesus and Christianity is a lie.

Its pointless arguing with you. Now go back and read my posts well. this time slowly. and answer my questions listed above in your next reply.

Trottle:
What I was trying to differentiate is that God in Islam is Different from that of Christianity. Christians refer to Jesus(a.s) as God even though he is human (doesn't that flaws your notion of spirituality?) As humans on earth created in pairs(male and female). even when we die it doesn't change chapter 49:13: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted". Allah did not state that humans would assume a Uni-Gender after death so individual souls still assumes its original gender while on earth.

The translation by Yusuf Ali

And all things have We preserved on record. (29)

"So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall We grant you, except in Punishment." (30)

Verily for the righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the Heart's) desires; (31)

Gardens enclosed, and Grape-vines; (32)

[/b]Companions of equal age[b]; (33)

And a Cup full (to the Brim). (34)

Humans whom were fortunate to make heaven would be granted their heart desires(sex inclusive) . So if you do not believe in 'heavenly beings' having sex then it is due to yr believe and that is your own cup of tea.

Lol as much as you try to water down the perversion of one having numerous sexual partners in heaven, The sex-craze just keeps getting more glaring.....According to your reply, souls and spirits have sex , for multiplication or for pleasure Do Angels also have sex...Little wonder the prophet took for himself and endorsed many wives for his followers even on earth. The apple dosent fall far from the tree, does it;-\.........As much as i dont wanna compare Jesus (cos i dont want to derail this thread)...Jesus is God in the flesh(Body)...Let us make man in our image, (soul, spirit,body=1 man)...God the father,God the Son/Word(Body), God the Holy spirit(spirit)= 1 God (three persons).....Your question tilts to how he can or why he should appear in the flesh, that was a divine plan by God to redeem man from Sin. Open a new thread, ill give answers to your question. But before then, answer the questions on sex in "heaven" posed to you.

Trottle:
Its pointless arguing with you. Now go back and read my posts well. this time slowly. and answer my questions listed above in your next reply.

Asking me questions when you could not address the questions raised in the OP? No!

Address the OP and stop using diversionary tactics.

winner01:
Lol as much as you try to water down the perversion of one having numerous sexual partners in heaven, The sex-craze just keeps getting more glaring.....According to your reply, souls and spirits have sex , for multiplication or for pleasure Do Angels also have sex...Little wonder the prophet took for himself and endorsed many wives for his followers even on earth. The apple dosent fall far from the tree, does it;-\.........As much as i dont wanna compare Jesus (cos i dont want to derail this thread)...Jesus is God in the flesh(Body)...Let us make man in our image, (soul, spirit,body=1 man)...God the father,God the Son/Word(Body), God the Holy spirit(spirit)= 1 God (three persons).....Your question tilts to how he can or why he should appear in the flesh, that was a divine plan by God to redeem man from Sin. Open a new thread, ill give answers to your question. But before then, answer the questions on sex in "heaven" posed to you.

firstly, I made it clear tha spirits are not uni-gender lile you were implying, also, I said humans would be given all they desire. moreso, having multiple wives in Islam means that y must have the means to sustain them and be just to them as humanly as possible. talking about sexual perversion? lets examine songs of solomon;

Let us look at Song of Solomon 8:10 "Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full� And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."
She is a virgin with full swelling breasts. When her lover meets her, he will be satisfied from those swelling breasts! Obviously, she is referring to licking, sucking and other pornographic things that I can't mention here. Believe me this verse is not talking about them worshiping GOD Almighty together when they meet!! It is clearly and indisputably referring to graphic sex that involves her swelling breasts and other things such as intercourse.

Let us look at Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
Let us look at Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts."
Praising the bed that they had sex on: Let us look at Song of Songs 1:16 "How handsome you are, my lover! Oh, how charming! And our bed is verdant"
Let us look at Song of Songs 1:2-4 "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!" I don't think this would be appropriate for a kid under 18 to read. Also, I don't think it is appropriate to have such open sexuality in a divine book anyway.
His right arm sexually feeling her body: Let us look at Song of Songs 2:6 "His left arm is under my head, and his right arm embraces me."
Let us look at Song of Songs 3:4 "Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother's house, to the room of the one who conceived me." So in other words, she was not married to him, and when she found him, she took him back to her bed room to have illegal sex with him? If she were married to him, she wouldn't take him to her "mother's house". She would take him to their house.
Let us look at Song of Songs 3:10 "Its posts he made of silver, its base of gold. Its seat was upholstered with purple, its interior lovingly inlaid by the daughters of Jerusalem." Why does the Bible teach young men to spend all of their time and effort to try to impress all of the girls in their town so they can possibly end in bed with them?



3- Fantasizing about a girl he calls his "sister". Her vagina tastes like wine for him. And they had sex all night long. After he satisfied her really good, she wished if he were her brother (her biological brother nursed by her "mother's breast" as she said) so she doesn't have to take him home secretly:

Note: Even though she may not be his biological sister, but calling her a "sister" in a pornographic and sick situation as shown in details below is not proper, and may suggest that the sick pervert would fantasize about his biological sister if he had one.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:9 "You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace." Fantasizing about his sister? at least he shows in this verse that he would!.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:10 "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!" Making love to his own sister? "pleasing is your love (making) than wine"?
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:12 "You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride; you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain."


Showing off her breasts and vagina to him:

Sleeping with his sister: Let us look at Song of Songs 5:4 "I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: 'Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night.' I have taken off my robe (i.e., she showed his breasts and vagina to him. Underwears and bras didn't exist back then!) must I put it on again? I have washed my feet, must I soil them again? My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him." What a disgusting way for someone to talk so pervertly about his sister and/or about her brother like that!!


Also, the bible sanctioned polygamy!

1- A brief look at polygamy in the Old Testament:

Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy:

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."

There are a lot more verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy, but I think that the above are sufficient enough to prove my point.

So "God" willingly allowed himself to be crucifed? So the 'father God' impregnated mary to Give birth to the 'Son God'. by the way, differentiate between the spirit and soul. Christians do say that Jesus died for their sin. then it means they can commit any sin without repercussion now?
It does not make sense at all. To me Jesus wasa prophet of God sent to propagate his message on earth. and he ascended to heaven and destined to return to earth to live a human liveand undergoes the human cycle of living.
Sex in Heaven lets examine it.

More and more we hear of ignorance from Christians who criticize Islam for claiming that Paradise will have physical pleasures in it similar to the ones that we have here on earth. Personally, I've heard cheap comments before about the 70 Houris for men in Heaven and how the Prophet, peace be upon him, "promised Hot desert men" sex in Paradise.
Bashing is easy, and believe me, nothing is easier than bashing the gospel of porn bible for claiming that women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and that sisters can look lustfully at their biological brothers and wish to have sex with them in bed. All of the quotes from the gospel of porn are locate at: X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.
Note: The exact number of 70 Houris is not mentioned in the Noble Quran. It is only mentioned in the Hadiths (collections of the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him). But Houris were mentioned in the Noble Quran. So the number is most likely true, even though the Hadiths were collected centuries after the natural death of the Prophet. In other words, the possibility of the Hadith being corrupt (most of the Bible is mostly corrupt), is slim because the Noble Quran supports the narration by mentioning the Houris as shown at the end of the article. Please visit: What parts of the Hadiths and Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, and Why?
Now having said all of that, let us now get technical here. The answer to the questions above is quite simple and requires no 50-page lengthy article to prove it.


Pleasures in the Islamic Heaven: Spiritual or Sensual?
Ever wondered why Christian missionaries come up with all kinds of stupid arguments in their bid to confuse the Truth? The answer is simple. For years they have been envious of the steady and deep inroads Islam has made into the hearts and minds of the people in the West. Decades ago, Adolf Hitler said;

“… it may be remarked that the progress made by the missions in spreading the Christian Faith abroad was only quite modest in comparison with the spread of Mohammedanism.” (Mein Kampf, Translated and annotated by James Murphy, Hurst & Blackett Ltd., Dec. 1939 p. 225)

And for a surety recently these wounds of envy have only got deeper. And the outcome is all the slandering campaign against the most demonized and yet the most rapidly growing religion.

Objections about Islamic Heaven:

The Heaven, they say, as represented in Qur’an and Hadith, Islam’s primary sources, is too sensuous and devoid of any spiritual fervor.

Christians take exception to the idea of palaces, maidens and other material delights in the Islamic heaven. Their main trouble lies with concept of spouses in the paradise. They argue as to how one can have sex in the ‘presence of God’?

Why material and physical delights?

We are humans, and even after resurrection we shall be humans, no doubted perfected but humans still. In wake of this reality John Davenport makes a valid observation;

“Another charge brought against Mohammed is the sensual character of the joys promised by him in his Paradise to those who shall receive his Law, and conform their lives to the precepts it contains; but, upon reflection, it will be found that there is nothing so absurd in this as is generally imagined by Christians, when it is considered that our bodies will, as we are told, assume, at the resurrection, a form so perfect as infinitely to surpass all that we can conceive, and that our senses will acquire so extraordinary an activity and vigour as to be susceptible of the greatest pleasures, each according to the difference of their objects, for, indeed, if we take away from those faculties their proper exercise, if we deprive them of the fit objects to please and gratify them, it cannot be otherwise than supposed that they have not only been given us to no purpose, but even to inflict upon us continual disappointment and pain. For, in fact, by supposing that the soul and body are restored to us, as must necessarily be the case if our bodies are restored in a perfect state, it is not clear upon what grounds it can be supposed that the senses should not have objects to exercise upon, in order to be capable of bestowing and of tasting all the pleasures which they may be capable of affording. Can there be any sin, crime, shame or degradation in the enjoyment of such pleasures?”

(John Davenport: An Apology for Muhammed and the Koran, J. Davy and Sons, London pp. 144-145)

On material delights in general:

Before I come to the question of wide-eyed-maidens let us talk about the other material delights like palaces and ‘lavish eatables’.

Heaven will be a place of eternal and total delight. And as a person is neither merely soul nor just body he will be provided with everything that soothes his spirit or the body.

The skeptical notions about the issue arise from the fact that most people do not understand Islam’s approach to life and humankind. In Islam there is no dichotomy of spiritual and the mundane. And if they can both go hand in hand in this world, why be allergic to the same in the hereafter?

Are material delights opposed to Spirituality?

It seems that to a Christian mind, spirituality cannot be retained in the face of material delights and even needs. This is perhaps the reason why celibacy is so much celebrated as being devoted to God (See Rev. 14: 1-5)

While Jesus (PBUH) walked this Earth he did eat and drink. People of his time saw him eating and drinking and hurled the charge of being a ‘glutton and winebibber’.

Can you guys please stop derailing this thread? This is what the muslims want to happen.

Trottle:
firstly, I made it clear tha spirits are not uni-gender lile you were implying, also, I said humans would be given all they desire. moreso, having multiple wives in Islam means that y must have the means to sustain them and be just to them as humanly as possible. talking about sexual perversion? lets examine songs of solomon;

Let us look at Song of Solomon 8:10 "Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full� And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."
She is a virgin with full swelling breasts. When her lover meets her, he will be satisfied from those swelling breasts! Obviously, she is referring to licking, sucking and other pornographic things that I can't mention here. Believe me this verse is not talking about them worshiping GOD Almighty together when they meet!! It is clearly and indisputably referring to graphic sex that involves her swelling breasts and other things such as intercourse.

Let us look at Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."
Let us look at Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts."
Praising the bed that they had sex on: Let us look at Song of Songs 1:16 "How handsome you are, my lover! Oh, how charming! And our bed is verdant"
Let us look at Song of Songs 1:2-4 "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!" I don't think this would be appropriate for a kid under 18 to read. Also, I don't think it is appropriate to have such open sexuality in a divine book anyway.
His right arm sexually feeling her body: Let us look at Song of Songs 2:6 "His left arm is under my head, and his right arm embraces me."
Let us look at Song of Songs 3:4 "Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother's house, to the room of the one who conceived me." So in other words, she was not married to him, and when she found him, she took him back to her bed room to have illegal sex with him? If she were married to him, she wouldn't take him to her "mother's house". She would take him to their house.
Let us look at Song of Songs 3:10 "Its posts he made of silver, its base of gold. Its seat was upholstered with purple, its interior lovingly inlaid by the daughters of Jerusalem." Why does the Bible teach young men to spend all of their time and effort to try to impress all of the girls in their town so they can possibly end in bed with them?



3- Fantasizing about a girl he calls his "sister". Her vagina tastes like wine for him. And they had sex all night long. After he satisfied her really good, she wished if he were her brother (her biological brother nursed by her "mother's breast" as she said) so she doesn't have to take him home secretly:

Note: Even though she may not be his biological sister, but calling her a "sister" in a pornographic and sick situation as shown in details below is not proper, and may suggest that the sick pervert would fantasize about his biological sister if he had one.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:9 "You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace." Fantasizing about his sister? at least he shows in this verse that he would!.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:10 "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!" Making love to his own sister? "pleasing is your love (making) than wine"?
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:12 "You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride; you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain."


Showing off her breasts and vagina to him:

Sleeping with his sister: Let us look at Song of Songs 5:4 "I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: 'Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night.' I have taken off my robe (i.e., she showed his breasts and vagina to him. Underwears and bras didn't exist back then!) must I put it on again? I have washed my feet, must I soil them again? My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him." What a disgusting way for someone to talk so pervertly about his sister and/or about her brother like that!!


Also, the bible sanctioned polygamy!

1- A brief look at polygamy in the Old Testament:

Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy:

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."

There are a lot more verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy, but I think that the above are sufficient enough to prove my point.

You had to go seekfor answers from www.answering-christianity.com/x_rated.htm......just to hide "the best prophet's" sexual pervasion....Solomon was also a prophet ryt....typical of mohammedans.

Trottle:
So "God" willingly allowed himself to be crucifed? So the 'father God' impregnated mary to Give birth to the 'Son God'. by the way, differentiate between the spirit and soul. Christians do say that Jesus died for their sin. then it means they can commit any sin without repercussion now?
It does not make sense at all. To me Jesus wasa prophet of God sent to propagate his message on earth. and he ascended to heaven and destined to return to earth to live a human liveand undergoes the human cycle of living.
Sex in Heaven lets examine it.

More and more we hear of ignorance from Christians who criticize Islam for claiming that Paradise will have physical pleasures in it similar to the ones that we have here on earth. Personally, I've heard cheap comments before about the 70 Houris for men in Heaven and how the Prophet, peace be upon him, "promised Hot desert men" sex in Paradise.
Bashing is easy, and believe me, nothing is easier than bashing the gospel of porn bible for claiming that women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and that sisters can look lustfully at their biological brothers and wish to have sex with them in bed. All of the quotes from the gospel of porn are locate at: X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.
Note: The exact number of 70 Houris is not mentioned in the Noble Quran. It is only mentioned in the Hadiths (collections of the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him). But Houris were mentioned in the Noble Quran. So the number is most likely true, even though the Hadiths were collected centuries after the natural death of the Prophet. In other words, the possibility of the Hadith being corrupt (most of the Bible is mostly corrupt), is slim because the Noble Quran supports the narration by mentioning the Houris as shown at the end of the article. Please visit: What parts of the Hadiths and Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth, and Why?
Now having said all of that, let us now get technical here. The answer to the questions above is quite simple and requires no 50-page lengthy article to prove it.


Pleasures in the Islamic Heaven: Spiritual or Sensual?
Ever wondered why Christian missionaries come up with all kinds of stupid arguments in their bid to confuse the Truth? The answer is simple. For years they have been envious of the steady and deep inroads Islam has made into the hearts and minds of the people in the West. Decades ago, Adolf Hitler said;

“… it may be remarked that the progress made by the missions in spreading the Christian Faith abroad was only quite modest in comparison with the spread of Mohammedanism.” (Mein Kampf, Translated and annotated by James Murphy, Hurst & Blackett Ltd., Dec. 1939 p. 225)

And for a surety recently these wounds of envy have only got deeper. And the outcome is all the slandering campaign against the most demonized and yet the most rapidly growing religion.

Objections about Islamic Heaven:

The Heaven, they say, as represented in Qur’an and Hadith, Islam’s primary sources, is too sensuous and devoid of any spiritual fervor.

Christians take exception to the idea of palaces, maidens and other material delights in the Islamic heaven. Their main trouble lies with concept of spouses in the paradise. They argue as to how one can have sex in the ‘presence of God’?

Why material and physical delights?

We are humans, and even after resurrection we shall be humans, no doubted perfected but humans still. In wake of this reality John Davenport makes a valid observation;

“Another charge brought against Mohammed is the sensual character of the joys promised by him in his Paradise to those who shall receive his Law, and conform their lives to the precepts it contains; but, upon reflection, it will be found that there is nothing so absurd in this as is generally imagined by Christians, when it is considered that our bodies will, as we are told, assume, at the resurrection, a form so perfect as infinitely to surpass all that we can conceive, and that our senses will acquire so extraordinary an activity and vigour as to be susceptible of the greatest pleasures, each according to the difference of their objects, for, indeed, if we take away from those faculties their proper exercise, if we deprive them of the fit objects to please and gratify them, it cannot be otherwise than supposed that they have not only been given us to no purpose, but even to inflict upon us continual disappointment and pain. For, in fact, by supposing that the soul and body are restored to us, as must necessarily be the case if our bodies are restored in a perfect state, it is not clear upon what grounds it can be supposed that the senses should not have objects to exercise upon, in order to be capable of bestowing and of tasting all the pleasures which they may be capable of affording. Can there be any sin, crime, shame or degradation in the enjoyment of such pleasures?”

(John Davenport: An Apology for Muhammed and the Koran, J. Davy and Sons, London pp. 144-145)

On material delights in general:

Before I come to the question of wide-eyed-maidens let us talk about the other material delights like palaces and ‘lavish eatables’.

Heaven will be a place of eternal and total delight. And as a person is neither merely soul nor just body he will be provided with everything that soothes his spirit or the body.

The skeptical notions about the issue arise from the fact that most people do not understand Islam’s approach to life and humankind. In Islam there is no dichotomy of spiritual and the mundane. And if they can both go hand in hand in this world, why be allergic to the same in the hereafter?

Are material delights opposed to Spirituality?

It seems that to a Christian mind, spirituality cannot be retained in the face of material delights and even needs. This is perhaps the reason why celibacy is so much celebrated as being devoted to God (See Rev. 14: 1-5)

While Jesus (PBUH) walked this Earth he did eat and drink. People of his time saw him eating and drinking and hurled the charge of being a ‘glutton and winebibber’.

Still copy and paste...cant you reason for yourself.....if All of God's moves make sense to you, how then are you not equal to Him......the rest of your copy and paste is crap, If you want to probe how King solomon lived his life, open a thread for that.

Jagoon:


And to the glory of God millions are leaving islam every year despite their evil apotasy laws. the bolded above is very apt.

With xtianity having several conversion from other religions after 9/11 that's what makes xtianity the fastest growing religion in the world.

Good night muslims.

But before you sleep keep pondering on 'why did allahh say something that is false in the quran'?

Happy night rest.

Good morning muslims.

Your way will be prosperous today but remember, when you face kaaba for solat you are offending the true God. Allah has as in the OP lied to you.

Don't remain deceived.

Trottle:
Stop tryong to distort whatever you have no knowledge of.

Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. [Qur'an 22:52]



They call this the ‘lapse’ of Muhammad (sa) (nauzubillah). This refutation will explore the sources of the missionary argument and find out if the story holds water.


Sources of the Missionary argument

The missionaries have two major sources:

(1) Ibn Sa'd
(2) Ibn Jarir al-Tabari




It is worthy to note that the alleged story was transmitted from al-Waqidi ( Muhammad Ibn Umar ) to Ibn Sa'd who was a known fabricator of events, Imam Al-Shafi'i who was a comtemporary of al-Waqidi and knew him personally has this to say :

“Al-Waqidi is a liar.”

and also:

“In Madeenah there were seven people who used to forge chains of narration. One of them was al-Waqidi.”

Imam Ibn Hanbal says thus about al-Waqidi:

“Al-Waqidi is a liar”

Imam Bukhari who collectted and compiled the most authentic book of ahadith, Shahih Bukhari said he didn't write a single letter by Al-Waqidi. So the credibility of of the story transmitted by al-Waqidi to Ibn Sa'd is zero. Now we'll turn to al-Tabari:

Al-Tabari mentions the so-called[b] 'Satanic verses'[/b] story in his Tarikh as well as an important set of statements in the introduction of his book, which states:


Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us.


( Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk p. 550.)


So what Al-Tabari is basically saying is that don't blame him if what he records sounds fishy, which makes this story unreal. Another element in why the story is not credible from al-Tabari is because , Karen Armstrong in her book Muahmmad [sa] devotes a whole chapter to this subject. In it she says Al-Tabari:

‘In his history Tabari preserves a tradition which gives a very different version of the story ’ (p.113)

Thus both transmitters of this story are unreliable.

Other Problems with the Story

Other than the reliability of the transmitters there are also many other problems with this story;

It is mentioned in the story that after reciting the so called 'Satanic Verses' verse 52 of Surah al-Hajj were revealed in connection with the story, but in reality Surah al-Hajj was revealed 7 or 8 years later which completeley shreads this story to piecies. It is obvious to any rational person that this story is pure fantasy and furthermore, Ibn Hisham who wrote an exahaustive biography of the prophet (sa) never mentiones this story at all.


References:
* Islamic-Awareness
* Karen Armstrong
* Other Texts
difference between Muhammad and Other prophet

a. A High-Quality Human Being

Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) is a human being, yet he is a very high-quality and eminent human being. This eminence has been recorded by The Supreme Creator and declared to us. When one looks at his life generally, it is seen in the first place that he acted in control by the Supreme Creator’s revelation, that he did not wait any remuneration for his duty, he was sincere to the utmost degree, he invited people to believe in Allah’s existence and oneness and that his aim and goal was immensely clear.

b. Protected

Allah the Glorious protected His Honorable Messenger from sins and made him an untainted and flawless being. He also protected him from all kinds of dangers which could come from people. He saved him and eliminated all kinds of complots resorted by enemies at many dangerous points when he faced death and it was impossible to escape.
He presented a clear example of coexistence in peace and with differences in community which is needed by our modern world and he shared the same city with people of different religions and beliefs.

c. His Prophethood is Universal

Yes, he is the last prophet. His prophethood is not limited to a country or a specific period of time; but his prophethood is a Universal one covering all times and places. Besides, he is the prophet of the jinn, too.
Not only people believing in him but also other people could not hide their admiration of his unsurpassable supreme character and respected this invaluable gift of the sky to the earth. For instance, Michael Hart put him in the first place in his book titled “The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History”. Great German Statesman Bismarck put his admiration of him into words as “O Muhammad (pbuh), I regret of not living in the same time with you!” and in International Law Congress in1927 showed their admiration in him by adding the following statement to the statement of result: “The humankind is proud of Hazrat Muhammad; because although he was illiterate, he developed such a great law system 13 centuries ago that we, the Europeans, would be happy if we could reach its value and truth two thousand years later.”


d His Miracles

The Lord of the Universe is a human being. However, he is a human being with a single finger pointing of whose the Moon divided into two, a human being in the palm of whose the pebbles talked, for whom the trees rooted off and walked towards saying “Salutations to you o the Messenger of Allah!”, a human being who filled up three hundred people with a few handfuls of date, in whose hands a jug of milk became abundant enough to fill lots of people, water flew through his fingers when he sank his fingers into a bowl and three hundred people took ablution with that water, for whom the log – on which he sermonized once upon a time until a pulpit was made for him – cried so loud that everybody heard it, a human being who was saluted by trees and stones on his way, who eased Ali’s pains by touching him and then Ali had never felt any pain again, besides whom the dumb children started to speak all of a sudden and said “You are the Messenger of Allah.” He was a human being, with whose touch the salty waters became mild, and whom even wild animals such as wolves and lions recognized and obeyed…
should I go on??

There are no answers to the questions in the OP in the length trash you posted up there.

The questions are simple as follows:

1. Allah said after Muhammad had married the wife of his adopted son, it no more a sin for believers to do the same. Why did he say the believers could marry their adopted sons' wives since he knew he was going to cancel children adoption?

2. Allah also said marrying the wives of adopted sons was the practice of the people of old. Who were the people of old who married the wives of their adopted sons?

3. The quran confirms satan cast words into Muhammad's mouth and he (allah) said the same thing happened to other prophets too but he moved to cancel such words. Who were the other prophets who spoke satan's words in error in the name of God, which God moved to cancel?

You left all the questions unanswered and started talking irrelivances. Absolute nonsense.

.

Bismillahi rahmanir rahim, for your questions, Marriage to the divorcee of ones so to say adoptes child is not bad. Islam does not give room for adoption and Allah commands that all child should bear the fathers name. I am not saying that people should not take care of orphans or other people children but they must not carry the name of the guardian but that of their father. The reason is because they do not have the same blood.

Abt surah hajj verse fifty two, prophets of Allah are human. Their action are righteous , but sometimes when judging things from a human point of view, a suggestion may come to their mind and it would be good to have power or wealth for furthring Allah s cause. In fact Allah s plan is opposite and He would cancel it and strengthen his commad through signs and revelation. An example is jonah who disobeyed Allah and Allah called him back to his cause through imprisoning him in the fish. Pls talk factually next time. Islam is the way of life. Ma salam

What I see here amongst the Muslims is now a case of pride. They can't bring themselves to admit that allah is Satan and that their noble prophet was used by satan.
If you were doing something you thought was right, then later you came by info that explains the truth, it'll be foolish to keep doing that wrong thing. That's why we do researches.
Many Muslims now know the truth. Islam is false and build on falsehood. There's nothing about mohammed to make him a prophet. The questions raised by OPs are a pointer to that fact.
The Islamic Apologists on NL are ashamed to show their faces. The only two here are very lame. One is trying to derail the thread.
Make Hay when the Sun shines. Don't let shame or apostacy law keep U. Jesus is the Truth.

Anas09:
What I see here amongst the Muslims is now a case of pride. They can't bring themselves to admit that allah is Satan and that their noble prophet was used by satan.
If you were doing something you thought was right, then later you came by info that explains the truth, it'll be foolish to keep doing that wrong thing. That's why we do researches.
Many Muslims now know the truth. Islam is false and build on falsehood. There's nothing about mohammed to make him a prophet. The questions raised by OPs are a pointer to that fact.
The Islamic Apologists on NL are ashamed to show their faces. The only two here are very lame. One is trying to derail the thread.
Make Hay when the Sun shines. Don't let shame or apostacy law keep U. Jesus is the Truth.

you do not understand english or u have a stubborn mind that u donot want to learn anything again;(

dijam:
Bismillahi rahmanir rahim, for your questions, Marriage to the divorcee of ones so to say adoptes child is not bad. Islam does not give room for adoption and Allah commands that all child should bear the fathers name. I am not saying that people should not take care of orphans or other people children but they must not carry the name of the guardian but that of their father. The reason is because they do not have the same blood.

This does not answer the questions in the OP. Go back and read the thread with understanding and come to give answers. No muslims are capable of answering so far.

dijam:
Bismillahi rahmanir rahim, for your questions, Marriage to the divorcee of ones so to say adoptes child is not bad. Islam does not give room for adoption and Allah commands that all child should bear the fathers name. I am not saying that people should not take care of orphans or other people children but they must not carry the name of the guardian but that of their father. The reason is because they do not have the same blood.

This does not answer the questions in the OP. Go back and read the thread with understanding and come again to give answers if you can. No muslims are capable of answering so far.

truthman2012:


This does not answer the questions in the OP. Go back and read the thread with understanding and come again to give answers if you can. No muslims are capable of answering so far.

it was not his so called adoped son s wife but his divorcee. They divorced before the prophet married her so I dont get ur point