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See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede - Religion - Nairaland

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See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by leunamme93(m): 4:32pm On Sep 25, 2015
So I decided to read more on the incident that happened in Mecca recently because of this comment. I find his statement racial which has not been different from his fellow Princes.
https://www.nairaland.com/2622402/saudi-prince-blames-african-pilgrims

The presence of the convoy of the son of the Saudi
King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud in central
Mina prompted the stampede that killed hundreds of
pilgrims on the outskirts of the holy city of Mecca, a
report says.
The Arabic-language daily al-Diyar said in a report on
Thursday that the convoy of Prince Mohammad bin
Salman Al Saud played a central role in the deadly
crush on the third day of the annual Hajj pilgrimage
earlier in the day.
The report said that Salman, who had sought to
attend the huge gathering of pilgrims in Mina, a large
valley about five kilometers (three miles) from
Mecca, arrived at the site early on Thursday
accompanied by a huge entourage.
The report said 200 army forces and 150 police
officers escorted the prince.
The report said the presence of the prince in the
middle of the population prompted a change in the
direction of the movement of the pilgrims and a
stampede.
The Lebanese daily further said that Salman and his
entourage swiftly abandoned the scene, adding that
the Saudi authorities seek to hush up the entire story
and impose a media blackout on Salman’s presence
in the area.
However, officials in Saudi Arabia have denied the
report, calling it "incorrect." The Saudi health minister
has blamed the pilgrims for the tragedy. "If the
pilgrims had followed instructions, this type of
accident could have been avoided," Khaled al-Falih
said.
According to Iran's Hajj and Pilgrimage Organization
more than 1,300 people, including 125 Iranians, were
killed in the crush. This as Saudi officials put the
death toll at 717 and the number of injured at 863.
Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister for Arab and African
Affairs Hossein Amir-Abdollahian said on Thursday
that Saudi Arabia should be held accountable over the
death of the pilgrims. He said that the fatal crush
started after Saudi security forces blocked two streets
while the pilgrims were walking towards the final ritual
of the Hajj.
"We can by no means remain indifferent towards Saudi
Arabia's irresponsible behavior," said Amir-
Abdollahian, adding, “The tactlessness on the part of
relevant Saudi authorities to provide security for the
pilgrims cannot be overlooked.”

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/09/24/430582/Saudi-stampede-hajj-prince-Salman

The head of Iran's Hajj organisation, Said Ohadi, said
that, for "unknown reasons," two paths had been
closed off near the site of a symbolic stoning of the
devil ritual where the stampede occurred.
"This caused this tragic incident," he said on state
television, according to the Associated Press news
agency.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/iran-slams-saudi-arabia-hajj-stampede-150924140959859.html

Here in Wikipedia link you will see The disaster
Nationalities of victims. Arabian countries suffered the most with a figure higher than the combination of all Africans nations together.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Hajj_stampede
I just hate authorities shifting responsibility.
Rip to all.

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 11:03pm On Sep 25, 2015
Blame games and politics should set aside for now.

Focus now should be about asking forgiveness for the dead and restore hope for the families.
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 5:10am On Sep 26, 2015
Empiree:
Blame games and politics sould set aside for now.

Focus now should be about asking forgiveness for the dead and restore hope for the families.


I'm sorry, but I prefer that they focus on investigating to find the cause of such a tragedy. It would even give the grieving families some closure as to what happened to their fallen loved ones.

The Saudi government has to be held responsible until we know the true cause.

1 Like

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by kevoh(m): 5:51am On Sep 26, 2015
Iranian governmemnt is holding the Saudi authorities responsible while my colleague/friend who happens to be a fulani muslim kept on finding ways to support the statement by Saudi authorities that the stampede was caused by African pilgrims, with statements like Africans don't like following order. undecided SMH

2 Likes

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 6:45am On Sep 26, 2015
Empiree:
Blame games and politics sould set aside for now.

Focus now should be about asking forgiveness for the dead and restore hope for the families.

So you want the investigations to be buried, and the so-called prince applaud for his stupid comments? Perhaps that explain how African pilgrims are being treated like thrash:

3 Likes

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 6:52am On Sep 26, 2015
AlBaqir:


So you want the investigations to be buried, and the so-called prince applaud for his stupid comments? Perhaps that explain how African pilgrims are being treated like thrash:


Don't mind him. We have seen educated muslims and responsible islamic organisations asking for proper investigation to the matter.

I don't understand why some Africans are bending over backwards to defend the Saudi government instead of taking them to the task.

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Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by llaykorn: 7:17am On Sep 26, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:



Don't mind him. We have seen educated muslims and responsible islamic organisations asking for proper investigation to the matter.

I don't understand why some Africans are bending over backwards to defend the Saudi government instead of taking them to the task.

WORD!

1 Like

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 11:42am On Sep 26, 2015
AlBaqir:


So you want the investigations to be buried, and the so-called prince applaud for his stupid comments? Perhaps that explain how African pilgrims are being treated like thrash:
Not at all. Investigations have to go on. I just feel like politics is being played gradually. I basically ignore any criticism of Saudi authority until conclusive evidence shows that authority was at fault. That was my position. Then late last night I read about the prince. That's something to look in to actually.

2 Likes

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 11:45am On Sep 26, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:



I'm sorry, but I prefer that they focus on investigating to find the cause of such a tragedy. It would even give the grieving families some closure as to what happened to their fallen loved ones.

The Saudi government has to be held responsible until we know the true cause.
I didnt deny investigating the tragic incident. I just dont want blind blame games. No, I am not bending over. Just dont want political games which is what i suspected earlier.
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 12:39pm On Sep 26, 2015
Empiree:
I didnt deny investigating the tragic incident. I just dont want blind blame games. No, I am not bending over. Just dont want political games which is what i suspected earlier.



Who are you trying to deceive here? The saudi government must be on the hot seat. Two tragedies happened in their different holy sites.

The blame game is perfect on this matter- the Saudi govt must account for what happened.
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 5:05pm On Sep 26, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:
Who are you trying to deceive here?
No one.


The saudi government must be on the hot seat.
Of course no one denies this.


Two tragedies happened in their different holy sites.
Yea, things happen. They had no foreknowledge of it.

The blame game is perfect on this matter- the Saudi govt must account for what happened.
Empiree is indifferent. What he's saying is to allow investigations take it course. Either way, Saudi govt will pay the price but the way folks play politricks is what I detest. Let the govt do investigations and persecute company charged with this responsibilities. Is that too much to wait on?.
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by leunamme93(m): 8:50pm On Sep 26, 2015
Was watching PressTv news this evening and some Islamic human rights were advocating for a private investigation. Do you think the authorities would allow that?
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by leunamme93(m): 9:03pm On Sep 26, 2015
AllNaijaBlogger:



Don't mind him. We have seen educated muslims and responsible islamic organisations asking for proper investigation to the matter.

I don't understand why some Africans are bending over backwards to defend the Saudi government instead of taking them to the task.
There they see the government as gods and would in a second turn a blind eye, low self esteem has eaten Africa. Some muslims here were not even interested in finding out what had caused the incident.
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by leunamme93(m): 9:24pm On Sep 26, 2015
Empiree:
Blame games and politics sould set aside for now.

Focus now should be about asking forgiveness for the dead and restore hope for the families.
You are sounding as if your pilgrimage is not yearly. Peradventure similar Incident should occur in the nearest future(God forbid) the only solution you could offer would be asking for forgiveness and restore hope. Did it occur to you that the most important thing, the bereaved would want is to find out the cause and ensure that there is no repeat whatsoever. I see you are still playing religious here.
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 4:58pm On Sep 27, 2015
leunamme93:

I'm not sure how answering that will make you answer the question I asked.
Well, one of the qualities of being muslims is to submit to Allah - The Creator. The incidents during Hajj is extraordinary event. Muslims know too well that hajj related incidents (death) are rewardable afterlife. This is common knowledge.

One of the purposes of hajj is unification of adherents of islam. There should be absolutely no room for bickering if we truly believe. Death incidents at Arafah is of two (2) realities that are opposite of each other.

First reality is that of painful deaths with bodies everywhere, whether it was mistake, negligence or deliberate. Loved ones sob, mourn and count their lost. This is material reality.

Second reality is base on iman (faith) and (qadar) fate. Muslims know too well the "benefits" of dying in Islam Holiest site especially during Hajj. There are tremendous rewards for those people. There are evidences in islamic text to support this.

Hajj Wipes Off Past Sins:

Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet (SAW) said: "He who performs Hajj for Allah's pleasure and avoids all lewdness and sins will return after Hajj free from all sins as he was the day his mother gave birth to him. " (Bukhari & Muslim)


Abdullahi in Mas'ud narrated that the Prophet (SAW) said: "Alternate between Hajj and Umrah (regularly), for these two remove poverty and sins just as the blacksmith's bellows removes all impurities from metals like iron, gold and silver. The reward for Hajj Mabrur is nothing short of paradise. " (Nasai and Tirmizhi, who what's it sounds hadith)

The Reward For Hajj Is Paradise:

Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet muhammad (SAW) said: " All sins committed in between the performance of one Umrah and another are expiated and erased, and the reward of Hajj Mabrur is nothing save Paradise."

In another sound hadith in Jorail relates from Jabir that the Prophet(SAW) said: " This House of Allah (the Ka'bah) is the pillar of islam, so whoever heads to it with the intention of performing Hajj or Umrah is under Allah's security. If he should die (during his trip) he is granted Paradise, and if he returns home safely, he returns with reward and gain. "

The above are enough evidences to do away with silly politics, blame games and sectarianism.

In islamic epistemology, the dead bodies of pilgrims we saw are nothing but shells. The souls of the dead looked at it and snubbed. They smile and rejoice at great rewards ahead while you and I critisize, cry, mourn and bicker. But the Angels are saying to them (the dead) "fear not this is the reward which you are promised"

That said, does that mean investigations should be avoided and possible negligence, mistakes etc should not be persecuted?, no sir. Investigations should proceed. If it was act of negligence by entity responsible, or that a Prince who thinks he's above the law caused stampede surge should be brought to book.

I do not buy the idea that pilgrims did not follow instructions. They are thousands of people at the Arafah and I can't stomach such a silly lie. I also frown at the way bodies piled up showing less regards for them. Bodies should be treated with respect. If this had been non-religious related issues, I would support blaming govt outright. But this is extraordinary event (Hajj) where muslims converge and set aside differences. Its purpose must be fulfilled.

In conclusion, you may say everything I said up there is bs, that's your prerogative. Yes, we learn from our mistakes. Preventive measures should be observed by next Hajj.


Eld Mubaraq!

2 Likes

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by leunamme93(m): 6:38am On Sep 28, 2015
Empiree:
Well, one of the qualities of being muslims is to submit to Allah - The Creator. The incidents during Hajj is extraordinary event. Muslims know too well that hajj related incidents (death) are rewardable afterlife. This is common knowledge.

One of the purposes of hajj is unification of adherents of islam. There should be absolutely no room for bickering if we truly believe. Death incidents at Arafah is of two (2) realities that are opposite of each other.

First reality is that of painful deaths with bodies everywhere, whether it was mistake, negligence or deliberate. Loved ones sob, morn and count their lost. This is material reality.

Second reality is base on iman (faith) and (qadar) fate. Muslims know too well the "benefits" of dying in Islam Holiest site especially during Hajj. There are tremendous rewards for those people. There are evidences in islamic text to support this.

Hajj Wipes Off Past Sins:

Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet (SAW) said: "He who performs Hajj for Allah's pleasure and avoids all lewdness and sins will return after Hajj free from all sins as he was the day his mother gave birth to him. " (Bukhari & Muslim)


Abdullahi in Mas'ud narrated that the Prophet (SAW) said: "Alternate between Hajj and Umrah (regularly), for these two remove poverty and sins just as the blacksmith's bellows removes all impurities from metals like iron, gold and silver. The reward for Hajj Mabrur is nothing short of paradise. " (Nasai and Tirmizhi, who what's it sounds hadith)

The Reward For Hajj Is Paradise:

Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet muhammad (SAW) said: " All sins committed in between the performance of one Umrah and another are expiated and erased, and the reward of Hajj Mabrur is nothing save Paradise."

In another sound hadith in Jorail relates from Jabir that the Prophet(SAW) said: " This House of Allah (the Ka'bah) is the pillar of islam, so whoever heads to it with the intention of performing Hajj or Umrah is under Allah's security. If he should die (during his trip) he is granted Paradise, and if he returns home safely, he returns with reward and gain. "

The above are enough evidences to do away with silly politics, blame games and sectarianism.

In islamic epistemology, the dead bodies of pilgrims we saw are nothing but shells. The souls of the dead looked at it and snubbed. They smile and rejoice at great rewards ahead while you and I critisize, cry, mourn and bicker. But the Angels are saying to them (the dead) "fear not this is the reward which you are promised"

That said, does that mean investigations should be avoided and possible negligence, mistakes etc should not be persecuted?, no sir. Investigations should proceed. If it was act of negligence by entity responsible, or that a Prince who thinks he's above the law caused stampede surge should be brought to book.

I do not buy the idea that pilgrims did not follow instructions. They are thousands of people at the Arafah and I can't stomach such a silly lie. I also frown at the way bodies piled up showing less regards for them. Bodies should be treated with respect. If this had been non-religious related issues, I would support blaming govt outright. But this is extraordinary event (Hajj) where muslims converge and set aside differences. Its purpose must be fulfilled.

In conclusion, you may say everything I said up there is bs, that's your prerogative. Yes, we learn from our mistakes. Preventive measures should be observed by next Hajj.


Eld Mubaraq!




Good to know. Not biased.
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 9:18am On Sep 28, 2015
HOW SAUDI STAMPEDE HAPPENED. . . . . Emir of Argungu !

Kebbi State Amirul Hajj and Emir ofArgungu, Isma’il Muhammad Mira has said the tragedy in Mina last Thursday occurred when Saudi security blocked the way which thousands of pilgrims were passing for the symbolic rite of devil stoning.He said the ensuing crush was as aresult of the stumble from the barricade by the Saudi security officers.The emir, who narrowly survived the stampede, was speaking with BBC Hausa on Saturday.He described how a Justice with the Abuja Division of the Appeal Court, Abdulkadir Jega became a victim out of their 16-member teamthat headed for the stoning.“We reached Mina around 3a.m., and we said our early morning prayers there. By 6a.m., we left our tent for the Jamarat to do the stoning.“We were walking up to around 10:30a.m., when we stumbled. In front of us, about 50-100 metres, we sighted Saudi security officers barricaded the road. That was how everybody stumbled. Those at the back were not aware that the front was no longer moving, and those atthe front were stopped by the Saudi security,” he said.That, according to the emir, happened when the sun was too hot. “I noticed it was 10:30a.m. at the time, because the sun was so hot and I was even talking to the late Justice Abdulkadir that it was not up to 12 noon, it was just 10:30a.m., but look at how the sun is so hot.“That was how the crush continuedup to the time people began to climb up to whatever that was there. Those at the back stepped on those in their fronts to climb. And the security officials were being increased in number to ensure that they effectively blocked pilgrims from passing through.“Then, comes cry from everywhere.Some male pilgrims desperately trying to escape even naked. And corpses litter everywhere. Those people (securities) stopped us amidst the corpses.“I did not get out of the place until 3p.m. It was God that saved me outof the place. And out of our group, 16 of us, only Justice died. But the kind of horror that we witnessed, could not be imagined.“To say that the corpses totalled 700 is just ridiculous. As an Amirul Hajj, in one of the hospitals we visited trying to determine our victims, the list of the dead people in that hospital alone was more than 1,200. And a long queue of ambulances was still there.“Only God knows what they planned and what happened at the place. But what we know is that they barricaded our way. They werethe only ones who know the reasons.”Asked whether he thinks the Saudi authorities are to bear the responsibility of the incidence, he said “All the vehicles and the security officers that stopped us belonged to Saudi Arabia.”On the plea by Nigeria for a thorough investigation on how the stampede occurred, the emir said “This is not the plea of Nigeria alone. This is the plea of the international community, because many nationals are involved.“That was how they stocked us in that area: young, aged, males and females. It’s hard to imagine, unless for one who witnessed it.”He then advised that to forestall future recurrence, there was the need of “A proper preparation and arrangement of the process, and may be the issue of quota system, like women could be supplanted bytheir male counterparts. May be that will help.“Secondly, I think all the countries need to be part of the Hajj preparation, because these people only think that the Hajj is for them alone, they arrange it the way they like. If all the Muslim countries would have a stake in the way the Hajj, preparation and the security arrangement are done, I think that will help

http://www.dailytrust.com.ng/news/general/how-saudi-stampede-happened-emir-of-argungu/112700.html

2 Likes

Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 11:42am On Sep 28, 2015
Re: See Who's Responsible for the Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 9:46am On Sep 29, 2015
Amir Hajj of Kebbi State says "Allah Ya isa" to the Saudis.

He gives amazing eye witness account. :

"We were about 50 metres from the exit, together with Justice Abubakar Jega (Court of Appeal Judge who also lost his life in the stampede) & were commenting on how hot it was, when the Saudi security forces blocked the exit with their cars and ambulances. The surge of pilgrims, from both directions created panic & stampede, people trampled on top of one another.
All along the security forces just stood & watched, they didn't make, any move. Whatever it is that they plotted against us, ALLAH YA ISA.
And the (official) casualty figures 700, are a mockery. In the single hospital we visited alone, the tally with pictures of those that died was about 1200. "

-HRH Emir of Argungu Alhaji Samaila Muhammadu Mera (BBC Hausa, evening news programme 26/9/2015)

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