Sheikh Ahmad Abubakar Gumi, a Kaduna-based Islamic scholar, is also a public affairs commentator who often says it as it is in his analysis of the nation’s socio-political problems. In this interview with IBRAHEEM MUSA, Gumi takes exception to the way and manner President Muhammadu Buhari is fighting corruption, and paints a less than flattering picture of the country’s state of affairs. Excerpts:
In the run up to the last election, you had expressed fears that there will be violence during or after the polls. To forestall it, you had advised both President Goodluck Jonathan and General Muhammadu Buhari, the flag bearers of PDP and APC respectively, to sacrifice their ambitions in the interest of peace. However, the elections were conducted peacefully in spite of your predictions. Will you say that your fears were misplaced?
No, I wouldn’t that my analysis was misplaced; in fact it was confirmed by events. Everybody was surprised how the former president, Dr Goodluck Jonathan conceded defeat. It was an action that turned him from the bottom rock of failure to an international hero and a statesman.
It’s not usual for an African leader, with all the instruments of government, who can manipulate things, to just stay aloof until when he is drowned by evidences that he can not continue in office. So, he chose the path of peace despite the gross failure of his administration.
Had he not chosen that path, the situation in Nigeria would have been a completely different story. People prayed and preached for peace. And when God wanted to work, He changed the mind of the former president. On him, our prayers worked and he turned overnight from one of the worst presidents Nigeria ever had, to one of the best presidents that history will register as having handed over power peacefully, disregarding all the consequences.
Critics at the time had argued that as an Islamic cleric, you should have called for prayers for a peaceful transition instead of raising the red flag.
No. I called for prayers and also called for the right step to be taken. We are paying a price for that, after PDP mismanaged Nigeria for a long time, we have to swallow the bitter pill. There is nothing we can do. Right now, instead of having a united peaceful Nigeria, we have an apprehensive country.
Every one is on edge; no one can predict what will happen tomorrow. I mean within the human ability to predict. This is bad for the economy, bad for progress. So, Nigeria is not a stable country now even after the election. The parties are not stable; not even APC is stable.
PDP is in disarray. A stable Nigeria is a country which has two strong stable political parties, equally respected, to be able to check each other. Now, PDP’s image is so much damaged and destroyed and this is not good for Nigeria’s democracy. APC is not a stable party because they have not yet started ruling.
It is still a one man show. So, Nigeria is still in the woods. However, there is evidence of improvements from the mismanagement of the past because when you reach the lowest ebb of degeneration, this is what happens. Even if Jonathan had continued, things must improve because they had nowhere else to descend to. If you can remember, before he handed over, the military had started taking over the local governments that Boko Haram had earlier seized.
Ibn Khaludun said that when a government is almost collapsing, the leaders will use the remaining period that they have in trying to correct their mistakes but that time it will be too late. So , as it is now, Nigeria has no depth to fall further into. So, we must expect some changes.
But will the changes endure? They can only hold out if the right steps are taken and the right people are chosen and intelligence is brought to bear and not sentiments. Vengeance should not come in, hateful speeches should have no place and worst still, self righteousness should be out of place.
Nigeria needs men that will forget the past, that was why I wanted a new page for the country; clear the field completely and start a new Nigeria without looking back. Once you start looking back, that will be the recipe for failure. For one, how far back are you going to look? We need Nigerians that look forward, who are forgiving and merciful.
President Muhammadu Buhari’s government has just spent 100 days in office. How will you assess it?
I think it is wrong to asses any government after 100 days, truly speaking. But looking at the policies, the direction and the composition of the government, from there you can predict the likely outcome of the administration. Nigeria is volatile in the sense that we have people of different religions and ethnic groups and even differences in civilisation.
Even economic differences. If you apply an economic law in Nigeria, it will favour a section of the country and disfavour the other. So, there need is for a kind of balance. But the kind of leader that will succeed in Nigeria is one who is accommodative; someone with a large heart. Someone who can pacify, motivate and instil love not fear. This is the kind of leader that can bring Nigeria out of the woods.
Some people are arguing that Nigeria needs a strong leader who can lead by the force of his personal example, because the problems are endemic. But from what you are advocating, it seems that you wanted someone who will not rock the boat but allow the status quo to continue. Is that correct?
Not at all. You see, if you have a headmaster that is a strict disciplinarian, the school will be quiet but the moment he goes out of the school, there will be noise again. We don’t need that. What we need is to educate and convince people that it is wrong to make noise. Allow them to make mistakes so that they can learn slowly but not through the cane or fear.
If your children fear you, if you are not in the house they will do exactly what you don’t want them to do. So, remove fear out of the equation. You don’t lead by fear, you lead by love. Look at our Prophet Muhammad (SAW), his companions loved him.
They didn’t fear him. They challenged him if they didn’t understand an issue and he listened to them. He also took advice from them; that’s leadership. So we need to build institutions that will guide the nation and not rule by fear. Fear works just temporarily.
But don’t you think that in the fight against corruption, the president has to be very firm and stern in order to send the right message that it is no more business as usual?
Corruption is evil but not every evil is one hundred per cent evil. And not everything good is one hundred per cent good. Water which is the basis of life, if it’s too much, it kills. Like alcohol, it is said in the Qurán that it has some good and some bad but the disadvantages outweigh the good. That is why it is forbidden.
But there is something good in alcohol; it can be used as preservative and it can be used as a solvent and it is used in hospitals. Like I said, corruption is evil but unfortunately now, the world is corrupt. And unfortunately, this corruption has become the cement of society.
So, if you want to fight corruption, you have to bring something that will gradually replace corruption, that will bind people together. In particular, in Nigeria, what has kept this country together, unfortunately, is this corruption. A Yoruba man, the Igbo and Hausa man are together on the same table, the Christians, the Muslims and Pagans and everybody is there taking from the national cake. That’s what has kept Nigeria one, not because of any ideology or principles. The only thing that binds Nigeria is that we have oil which is feeding everybody and that kept the nation together.
So, what we should do is to go about the fight against corruption gradually. If you push hard it will fail. So, what I’m saying is that corruption crept into Nigeria gradually and if you want to cure it, you have to remove it gradually. To fight corruption, we should institute a check and balance system and go about educating people.
In America, it is not that people don’t want to steal but there is no way to do so. In a shop, every item is marked by a bar code; there is no way to steal. This is the kind of check that stops people from corruption and not the fear of some kind of head teacher who is watching over the society.
As a Muslim cleric, I’m surprised that you are against fighting corruption. I want us to be clear on this, are you faulting the way and manner that the present administration is fighting corruption?
No. The present administration was brought in by the masses to do exactly what it is doing. In fact, it is not doing it to their expectation because of the reality it saw. It is on the banner of fighting corruption that they came into power. So, they were elected by about 16 million voters to do so.
But the reality is that there is an equal number, or more Nigerians that are not looking at it that way. I mean the beneficiaries of this corruption. So, it is not even a popular mandate from the vast majority of Nigerians that corruption should be fought. Most want it to continue because they benefit from it. But I’m not faulting the government for trying to fight corruption or fighting it.
What I’m saying is that the 16 million people that voted for fighting corruption don’t know how to go about fighting corruption. So, how can 16 million people dictate to us how to run a nation of about 160 million people?
In your view, which is the correct way to fight corruption in Nigeria?
The correct way is that whatever comes slowly should go slowly. Diseases like leprosy and tuberculosis that come slowly are treated slowly but illnesses like malaria that are acute are treated acutely. Corruption crept into Nigeria slowly and so, it must be treated slowly.
And we must go about fighting corruption in a very intelligent way because most of it is being perpetrated by leaders because they want to maintain power and influence. Even the masses are so corrupt now that you need money in order for them to follow you.
Sometimes, it is the system that makes people corrupt. For example, you cannot be a governor if you don’t have billions of naira. So, the way out of it is education and good governance. Let’s not put the bar of anti-corruption too high that we keep emphasising it.
The appointments that President Muhamadu Buhari has so far made have been criticised as favouring the northern part of the country. Although he has not appointed ministers yet, what is your opinion about the president’s team?
Honestly speaking, I don’t think there is anything lopsided about the appointments so far because they cut across all regions. But as I told you, the appointments were geared towards fighting corruption and bringing credibility in governance. The president is not looking for one hundred per cent clean people but better people.
But in my view, this is not the priority of Nigeria. The priority is to bring everybody on board, whether they are clean or unclean people, in order to stabilise the polity. Let people feel relaxed, let the economy start growing as it was doing before. At this embryonic stage of a government, the very serious allegation of marginalisation can break a nation.
A section of the country can say that we will go our way because you are governing without us. So, let’s downplay this war against corruption. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not condoning corruption but let me give you an example with a doctor in the hospital.
When an accident patient is brought to the hospital emergency unit with fractures all over the body and bones protruding, you will see the doctor very calm. He will go about looking for the patient’s pulse and measuring his BP, trying to get intravenous fluid into his body.
The doctor will not look at the fractures. But a lay man will panic over the multiple fractures. The doctor will come to them maybe after two weeks. All that he wants to do at the initial stage is to make sure that the blood volume is enough to sustain life first. So, a government that inherited a battered society first has to bring the nation together, so that everybody will have a sense of belonging.
The government should make the good and the bad feel relaxed, not stir fear in the polity. When I heard that the former National Security Adviser who controlled all the security forces apart from the president was under house arrest, I became worried.
You mean it was wrong to have put Col Sambo Dasuki (rtd) under house arrest even when the government had a court order?
Yes, it was wrong for whatever reason. He was in charge of the whole security of the nation and they handed over power peacefully; even for that, you have to respect his courage. This is not how you should pay back. So, what I’m saying is that nobody condones corruption but how do you deal with it? Like I mentioned in the example of a doctor, it is not as if doctors are not concerned about fractures. They are. But when a patient is in a state of shock, he is concerned about his heart so he leaves the fractures.
Nigeria’s problem is not one hundred per cent corruption. What the country requires now is to bring people of different persuasions and orientations in order to build peace and confidence. So, we have to be careful with what we do; radicalism is not the solution to corruption.
The only thing that can reverse this is good education and gradual enlightenment. Let’s not be in a hurry, let’s not be saints and angels in one day because we are not. Allah said that if He will judge people on the basis of what they do, He will not leave even an animal on earth.
So, it means all human beings are sinners. So, we should approach the war on corruption with mercy and gradually. We thank God that there was a peaceful change of government. There were people who prayed and worked tireless for this to be achieved and you have to appreciate that.
Whatever they did in the past, they deserve appreciation. It’s part of thanking people. Allah said that if you do not thank people, you will not thank God. As a government, no matter how good a policy is, if it will stir rancour or discord and fight, it is bad for the nation.
Are you in support of this administration probing former President Goodluck Jonathan?
He cannot be probed. Who will do the probing? It sounds good if it can be done but it can’t be done. You cannot put a former President and Commander-in-Chief in prison for stealing money. You cannot do that!
Why sir?
Where has it ever been done? In Egypt, Mubarak was put in jail because he killed more than 800 protesters; because of blood, not because of corruption. Mubarak will one the day be out and those people who are condemning him now will be in prison. So, there are things that are possible and things that are not.
So, let’s not deceive ourselves. Do you think you will put Jonathan in prison and your government will continue just like that? You think his people will not react? We are not children please. Whatever people have stolen, leave them with God if you have faith in Him.
Do you think that they will escape? No. Leave them with their conscience. Nigeria is a very rich country. When the British were here, they built railways linking Kano, Gusau, Maiduguri to Port Harcourt and Lagos to get our raw materials to the sea so that they will take them to their country. Nigeria has been milked by different people; whoever comes will milk Nigeria and still the country is a land of plenty. Let’s forget the past and build a strong nation now.
Don’t you think that this kind of amnesty that you are proposing will send a wrong signal to corrupt people? They will still loot the country, knowing that they will be forgiven.
But what will you do if God forgives them? You can steal all the things in this world and God can forgive you. Then why should a human being not forgive? So, the only way to stop corruption is to build institutions.
But don’t you think that these things can go side-by-side, educating people and building institutions on the one hand and punishing culprits on the other hand?
When you say that you want to punish culprits, the question is, are you stable enough to punish them? Will you not be stirring another problem that will uproot you? Murtala Mohammed attempted to stamp out corruption, but how long did he live? Even the first military regime of Buhari that was anti-corruption, did it last?
So, why will this one last? So, don’t clap for him to do something which is wrong. I want General Buhari to succeed; his success is my success because I have children. If he crashes, we will all crash. What I’m saying it that he shouldn’t be taken in by the applause of the masses and do the wrong thing.

source: newtelegraphonline.com/buhari-should-forget-about-corruption-sheikh-gumi/

Gumi & Kukah are on same page regard fighting corruption but nevertheless corruption cases ain't a thing we should just sweep under the carpet.

The zoo is a country were religious leaders talk more about politics than religion.

They spend more time with politicians than with their members.

They also live more lavish life than celebrities, even jay z and Beyonce are learners when they start their formings .

let Gumi continue to channel his resources into praying for the Government and Nigeria as a whole and stop interfering into the activities and the Government. Guess he as not forgotten how most clergies in Nigeria created a false impression.....

Maalam Why?

It's like You are always on the other side.


But There is no way PMB will forget about fighting corruption. Even if the corruption fights back we have enough shock absorbers to withstand the heat.


Your fear i believe is just because of the way corruption is fighting back with bomb blast.


NLC President comrade Ayyuba Wabba call for investigating the so called militants from Niger delta they could be responsible for the blasts just to picture Nigeria not a safe heaven for investors.


The multiplier effect is to equally show that government is not achieving or recording any success.


God pass them and Nigeria must be free.



God bless Nigeria and Nigerians.

The war against corruption is not genuine. All na scam.

pls sumones shud summarize all this text book fr me.