With the release of the Dutch Safety Board report into the downing of Flight MH17 it is now possible to compare the evidence gathered by the Dutch Safety Board with claims made by the Russian Ministry of Defence in their July 21st 2014 press conference on the downing of Flight MH17. In Bellingcat’s “Russia’s Colin Powell Moment – How the Russian Government’s MH17 Lies Were Exposed” four claims made by the Russian Ministry of Defence during the press conference were examined and shown to either be lies, fabrications, or both. While the Dutch Safety Board report does not cover all aspects of the Russian Ministry of Defence’s July 21st press conference it was still possible to compare the Dutch Safety Board’s conclusions to some of the claims made by the Russian Ministry of Defence.

MH17’s Flight Path

One of the Russian Ministry of Defence’s key claims was that MH17 had been redirected out of its flight corridor, making a significant turn clearly visible on the image they presented of MH17’s flight path, shown below:



Data from the preliminary Dutch Safety Board report published on September 9th 2014 showed that this claimed flight path was a fabrication, with the following comparison created by Bellingcat clearly showing the difference between the Russian Ministry of Defence claim and the Dutch Safety Board’s findings in their preliminary report:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLKOpZycXnQ

The below map is from the final Dutch Safety Board report showing the route of Flight MH17, which confirms the route published in the preliminary Dutch Safety Board report:



This is final confirmation that the Russian Ministry of Defence presented a fake map of Flight MH17’s flight path in their July 21st 2014 press conference, and lied about the flight path during the press conference.

The Ukrainian SU-25 and Radar Data

The Russian Ministry of Defence presented the following image, which they claimed represented aircraft in the area at the time:



The Russian Ministry of Defence then stated the following:

At that time there were 3 civilian aircrafts:

Flight from Copenhagen to Singapore at 17.17;

Flight from Paris to Taipei at 17.24

Flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Besides it, Russian system of air control detected the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft, purposed Su-25, moving upwards toward to the Malaysian Boeing-777. The distance between aircrafts was 3-5 kilometers.

The Russian Ministry of Defence also presented a video of what it claimed was radar data showing aircraft in the sky at the time:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0zUbc67mj4

They then stated the following:

At 17.20 P.M. at the distance of 51 kilometers from the Russian Federation state boundary and the azimuth of 300 degrees the aircraft started to lose its speed obstructively which is quite distinctively to be seen on the table of the aircraft characteristics. At 17.21 35 seconds P.M. with the aircraft speed of 200 km/h at the point of the Boeing crash there is a new mark of the aircraft to be seen. The aircraft was steadily monitored by radar stations of Ust-Donetsk and Butirinskoe during 4 minutes period. Air control officer having enquired the characteristics of newly appeared aircraft couldn’t possibly get them because it is in all likelihood that the aircraft had no secondary deduction system amounted on it, which is put typically for military aircraft. The early detection of this aircraft appeared to be quite impossible because the air situation control is usually performed by radars working in a standby mode which detection possibilities at the given distance are over 5000 m altitude.

As part of the Dutch Safety Board investigation radar data was requested from Ukraine and Russia, with the results of the requests detailed in section 2.9.5 of the report:

Russia was unable to provide any of their raw or process data, only providing a video of the radar screen showing what they claimed was processed primary and secondary data. The Dutch Safety Board states in section 2.9.5.3
Radar russia

Russia claims its data retention policies resulted in the data not being stored, and this is examined in detail in section 2.9.5.3 of the report. Regardless of regulations, and whether or not Russian followed them, it seems extremely odd that a few days after the downing of Flight MH17 Russian would use this data as part of its MH17 press conference, but not save a copy of the data for the Dutch Safety Board investigation, or the criminal investigation.

However, based on the information presented by Ukraine and Russia the Dutch Safety Board was able to come to a conclusion about other aircraft in the air at the time MH17 was shot down. In section 3.4.2 it referenced the second object that appeared on the radar, identified as an aircraft by the Russian Ministry of Defence:
Debris

The Dutch Safety Board made the following conclusions on the presence of other aeroplanes near Flight MH17 in section 10.2:
DSB Conclusion

In conclusion, it is clear to see that the claims of the Russian Ministry of Defence of an SU-25, or other military jet, close to MH17 were totally false, and they purposely misread radar data (also examined by other experts who came to the same conclusion as the Dutch Safety Board) to support their false claim a military jet was near to Flight MH17.

In addition to the above claims made by the Russian Ministry of Defence in their July 21st press conference it has been previously possible to prove the Russian Ministry of Defence lied about three other key claims, detailed here. It is now clearer than ever that the Russian Ministry of Defence’s reaction to the downing of Flight MH17 was to create lies and fabrications and present them to the world, only days after Flight MH17 was shot down, killing 298 people.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/10/15/how-the-dutch-safety-board-proved-russia-faked-mh17-evidence/

Those russians.

Elliot Higgins aka Brown Moses is a discredited amaterish charlatan who has been exposed in the past for his fake data and false reports. He would do anything for his 15 minutes of fame.

Seriously, no one takes this guy seriously!

NairaMinted:
Elliot Higgins aka Brown Moses is a discredited amaterish charlatan who has been exposed in the past for his fake data and false reports. He would do anything for his 15 minutes of fame.

Seriously, no one takes this guy seriously!

I think it would serve you and Russia well to refute the points raised, CNN interviewed the guy Aljazeera listening post have spoken to the guy. So let's face the issues

vedaxcool:


I think it would serve you and Russia well to refute the points raised, CNN interviewed the guy Aljazeera listening post have spoken to the guy. So let's face the issues

Nigguh puhleaaaasseee! Cos he's been invited to CNN & Aljazeera, that makes his information or analyses solid and credible? He has been busted in the past and whatever Ellio Higgins aka Brown Moses has to say is as credible as the words of the street corner h00ker on crack!

Just yesterday CNN, carried Lamar Odom's story whilst passing someone else's picture as is. Point is: the news media don't always get it right and there have been several instances where a so-called expert is invited to spew his r.u.b.bish as long as it correlates with the narrative that that news media is pushing.

Even if the plane wasn't shot down by Russia and her proxies, Believe anything that comes out of Russia at your own peril

This was 1983 after the Soviets shot down Korean Airlines, They came up with "Satellite Footage" and powerpoints to "prove" that they didn't do it. This was after they tried to hide the incident from the world. They later claimed it was a spy plane and the truth only came out after the Soviet union went burst.

Wonder why everyone is skeptical now? It is all too familiar. The truth about MH17 will be out one day but not today

Missy89:
Even if the plane wasn't shot down by Russia and her proxies, Believe anything that comes out of Russia at your own peril. Wonder why everyone is skeptical now? It is all too familiar. The truth about MH17 will be out one day

Missy, even in your heart of hearts, you knew very well that MH17 was a false flag from the very begining. And the investigative inquiry set up was even more dubious, lobsided and bias from the word go. Even common sense should tell us that. What was Belgium, who is not a party to the crash in any form, doing in the investigation? Malaysia who is the primary victim of this horrible crime was initially left out of the investigation, and was only admitted later after much protest and anger by Kuala. The seperatist that were the primry suspect in the said crime were not given a representative in the investigation, and Russia which was alo accused of the said crime was not also represented either. All these are a clear violation of the twin principles of natural justice;

(1) The principle of audi alterem partem- which means, " hear the other side of a dispute, " and

(2) The principle of Nemo Judex in Causa Sua- which mean, " You can not be a judge in your own cause/case".

From the statement of facts as represented by the constitution of the said Dutch investigation panel, Russia and the seperatist claimed to be responsible for the said crime, were not in any way represented in the panel (violation of 1st principle), while Ukraine which is a party to the said crime oweing to its military operation in the conflict zone in the East of that country-scene of the said crime, was seated as a direct member of the said investigation panel. This is outright violation of the 2nd principle.

Furthermore, the evidence relied on by the said investigation panel in arriving at their findings, constituted evidence as tendered by the Ukrainian Governement (who of course is a judge in its own case), whose evidence were accepted as valid, while the ones tendered by the other party (Russia) to the dispute were not admitted for consideration.

Thus, a good judge or a properly constituted criminal court that possesses the spirit of the twin pillars of natural justice, will declare such a case as " null and void ".
The whole process was " void ab initio".


Other instances that shows that the case was fraught with alot of irregularities and bias from the very begining:

- The fact that there was no reference by the panel as to why the path of MH17 was re-directed by the Air traffick control of the Ukrainian government.

-The fact that the investigative panel did not even allude to the whereabout of the air traffick control recordings of that fateful day, especially when Ukraine can not even furnished them.

-The fact that the whereabout of the Spanish air traffick control man manning the Ukrainian air traffick control post could not be found till date.

-The fact that the investigation panel relied on the secondary radar info provided by the Ukrainian junta, instead of the primary radar info, which the Ukrainian government could not provide. (pathetic)

-The fact that the Ukrainian government said that its primary radar was not active during the said period in the East of that country, and so could not furnish such information that would have served as primary evidence. (at this point, i shook my head in pity for the souls that passed on, while bursting out in repulsive laughter as to this clownish excuse of the junta. Your primary radar is not active but your planes are flying and targeting seperatist in the east, monitored ONLY by your SECONDARY RADAR. Is anybody listening? ). What a world.

-The fact that the investigation was conducted in secret and a none disclosure pact was signed by the parties to it.

-The fact that the investigation was even conducted by parties with self interest to the case, instead of being done openly by the United Nations. (i pity the truth)

-The fact that in its final submissions, the investigation panel did not make ANY REFERENCE to the information regarding the BLACK BOX RECORDINGS. ( "thanks to the none disclosure pact" )

-The fact that in its final submissions, the investigation panel could not or did not apportion blame on anyone, not even the much hyped seperatist as being responsible, as they said its not within their power to so do. ( then why did you embark on the excercise at the first place, knowing that you can not even indict anyone, let alone prosecuting or recommending for prosecution? ) wonders shall never end in this world of sin!

-And the fact that if there was anyone apportioned blame by the panel, it was the Ukrainian government for not clearing its air space during such crisis.

So, all you people, know therefore that this whole MH17 drama was a sham from the very begining. A false flag that went completely wrong off scripts, though it succeeded in eliciting the planned emotions against Russia.

Appleyard:
Missy, even in your heart of hearts, you knew very well that MH17 was a false flag from the very begining. And the investigative inquiry set up was even more dubious, lobsided and bias from the word go. Even common sense should tell us that. What was Belgium, who is not a party to the crash in any form, doing in the investigation? Malaysia who is the primary victim of this horrible crime was initially left out of the investigation, and was only admitted later after much protest and anger by Kuala. The seperatist that were the primry suspect in the said crime were not given a representative in the investigation, and Russia which was alo accused of the said crime was not also represented either. All these are a clear violation of the twin principles of natural justice;

(1) The principle of audi alterem partem- which means, " hear the other side of a dispute, " and

(2) The principle of Nemo Judex in Causa Sua- which mean, " You can not be a judge in your own cause/case".

From the statement of facts as represented by the constitution of the said Dutch investigation panel, Russia and the seperatist claimed to be responsible for the said crime, were not in any way represented in the panel (violation of 1st principle), while Ukraine which is a party to the said crime oweing to its military operation in the conflict zone in the East of that country-scene of the said crime, was seated as a direct member of the said investigation panel. This is outright violation of the 2nd principle.

Furthermore, the evidence relied on by the said investigation panel in arriving at their findings, constituted evidence as tendered by the Ukrainian Governement (who of course is a judge in its own case), whose evidence were accepted as valid, while the ones tendered by the other party (Russia) to the dispute were not admitted for consideration.

Thus, a good judge or a properly constituted criminal court that possesses the spirit of the twin pillars of natural justice, will declare such a case as " null and void ".
The whole process was " void ab initio".


Other instances that shows that the case was fraught with alot of irregularities and bias from the very begining:

- The fact that there was no reference by the panel as to why the path of MH17 was re-directed by the Air traffick control of the Ukrainian government.

-The fact that the investigative panel did not even allude to the whereabout of the air traffick control recordings of that fateful day, especially when Ukraine can not even furnished them.

-The fact that the whereabout of the Spanish air traffick control man manning the Ukrainian air traffick control post could not be found till date.

-The fact that the investigation panel relied on the secondary radar info provided by the Ukrainian junta, instead of the primary radar info, which the Ukrainian government could not provide. (pathetic)

-The fact that the Ukrainian government said that its primary radar was not active during the said period in the East of that country, and so could not furnish such information that would have served as primary evidence. (at this point, i shook my head in pity for the souls that passed on, while bursting out in repulsive laughter as to this clownish excuse of the junta. Your primary radar is not active but your planes are flying and targeting seperatist in the east, monitored ONLY by your SECONDARY RADAR. Is anybody listening? ). What a world.

-The fact that the investigation was conducted in secret and a none disclosure pact was signed by the parties to it.

-The fact that the investigation was even conducted by parties with self interest to the case, instead of being done openly by the United Nations. (i pity the truth)

-The fact that in its final submissions, the investigation panel did not make ANY REFERENCE to the information regarding the BLACK BOX RECORDINGS. ( "thanks to the none disclosure pact" )

-The fact that in its final submissions, the investigation panel could not or did not apportion blame on anyone, not even the much hyped seperatist as being responsible, as they said its not within their power to so do. ( then why did you embark on the excercise at the first place, knowing that you can not even indict anyone, let alone prosecuting or recommending for prosecution? ) wonders shall never end in this world of sin!

-And the fact that if there was anyone apportioned blame by the panel, it was the Ukrainian government for not clearing its air space during such crisis.

So, all you people, know therefore that this whole MH17 drama was a sham from the very begining. A false flag that went completely wrong off scripts, though it succeeded in eliciting the planned emotions against Russia.

The fact that an investigation of a plane crash has been conducted without any mention of the contents of the black box...........................................I mean, since the dawn of air flights and black boxes, what's the first place investigators go searching for clues...................................NO WORDS, NO WORDS!!'

NairaMinted:


Nigguh puhleaaaasseee! Cos he's been invited to CNN & Aljazeera, that makes his information or analyses solid and credible? He has been busted in the past and whatever Ellio Higgins aka Brown Moses has to say is as credible as the words of the street corner h00ker on crack!

Just yesterday CNN, carried Lamar Odom's story whilst passing someone else's picture as is. Point is: the news media don't always get it right and there have been several instances where a so-called expert is invited to spew his r.u.b.bish as long as it correlates with the narrative that that news media is pushing.

As if the stars were aligning to drive home my point, see this:


""Fox News analyst arrested for lying about working as a CIA agent"

Ouch...and this happens repeatedly with big players. For instance the author-fraudster of "Three Cups of Tea" to whom Obama donated, and who as a result of his fraudulent work became an adviser to General McChrystal in Afghanistan.

The latest fraudster:

"A Fox News guest terrorism analyst was arrested on Thursday after a grand jury indicted him on charges of falsely claiming to have been a CIA agent for decades, US prosecutors said."

"Wayne Simmons, 62, of Annapolis, Maryland, bogusly portrayed himself as an “Outside Paramilitary Special Operations Officer” for the Central Intelligence Agency from 1973 to 2000, the US Attorney’s Office for Virginia’s Eastern District said in a statement."

"Simmons allegedly tried to use that claim to get government security clearances and work as a defense contractor. At one point he was deployed overseas as an intelligence adviser to senior military officers, the statement said."

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/16/fox-news-analyst-arrested-for-lying-about-working-as-a-cia-agent

NairaMinted:



The fact that an investigation of a plane crash has been conducted without any mention of the contents of the black box...........................................I mean, since the dawn of air flights and black boxes, what's the first place investigators go searching for clues...................................NO WORDS, NO WORDS!!'

Not a single word regarding that area i Am waiting to see the pathetic sons of cain prosecuting anyone without the recorded info from the Black Box.

Pathetic!

NairaMinted:


As if the stars were aligning to drive home my point, see this:


""Fox News analyst arrested for lying about working as a CIA agent"

Ouch...and this happens repeatedly with big players. For instance the author-fraudster of "Three Cups of Tea" to whom Obama donated, and who as a result of his fraudulent work became an adviser to General McChrystal in Afghanistan.

The latest fraudster:

"A Fox News guest terrorism analyst was arrested on Thursday after a grand jury indicted him on charges of falsely claiming to have been a CIA agent for decades, US prosecutors said."

"Wayne Simmons, 62, of Annapolis, Maryland, bogusly portrayed himself as an “Outside Paramilitary Special Operations Officer” for the Central Intelligence Agency from 1973 to 2000, the US Attorney’s Office for Virginia’s Eastern District said in a statement."

"Simmons allegedly tried to use that claim to get government security clearances and work as a defense contractor. At one point he was deployed overseas as an intelligence adviser to senior military officers, the statement said."

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/16/fox-news-analyst-arrested-for-lying-about-working-as-a-cia-agent

You know Uncle Sam is synonymous with criminality.

Locals who don't speak English gave reports to foreign media of Russian soldiers carting away debris from the crash site and some dollop heads still say Russia does not have a role to play in this.

Indications so far keep pointing at Russia,the Dutch who were badly hit are at most neutral to the whole power battle between US and Russia so you can't claim its propaganda when they conduct an independent free and fair investigation into the plane crash.They are bound to release the truth as they see it.

ValerianSteel:
Locals who don't speak English gave reports to foreign media of Russian soldiers carting away debris from the crash site and some dollop heads still say Russia does not have a role to play in this.

Indications so far keep pointing at Russia,the Dutch who were badly hit are at most neutral to the whole power battle between US and Russia so you can't claim its propaganda when they conduct an independent free and fair investigation into the plane crash.They are bound to release the truth as they see it.

Link please?

Appleyard,

Are you talking about the investigation into the cause of crash or the criminal inquiry? If i recall, The criminal inquiry is still on going and the report that was released was to determine the cause of the crash and Russia fully participated in that one

Missy89:
Appleyard,

Are you talking about the investigation into the cause of crash or the criminal inquiry? If i recall, The criminal inquiry is still on going and the report that was released was to determine the cause of the crash and Russia fully participated in that one

Both. And how did Russia fully participated in the investigation?

Appleyard:
Both. And how did Russia fully participated in the investigation?

Few screen shots from the first investigation that was released.

You said Russia's evidence was dismissed. That is false. I added another screenshot from the report where Almaz-Antey's simulation was added to the report and it was concluded that the 3 simulations that was ordered was consistent. ( one independent, one from Ukraine and one from Almaz-Antey the Russian manufacturer of the BUK). It was determined that the missile was fired within an area of 320 square kilometers without assigning blames or confirming the actual place it was fired since more evidence will be needed and it was beyond the scope of the investigation

Flight recorder info was released as well, debunking your earlier claim that it wasn't, that was how it was determined that the missile exploded on top of the plane (screenshot added)

As per not assigning blame, Lets wait for the criminal inquiry, That is another report entirely. This report however blames Ukraine for not protecting her airspace and families of people that died on the plane are suing Ukraine already for the negligence

Appleyard

You said -The fact that the investigation was even conducted by parties with self interest to the case, instead of being done openly by the United Nations. (i pity the truth)
Malaysia proposed this but Russia VETOED it

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/29/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-un-idUSKCN0Q32GS20150729

Not so fast, Missy! You wanna play a fast one but you won't get away with the Houdini trick!

Missy89:


Few screen shots from the first investigation that was released.

You said Russia's evidence was dismissed. That is false. I added another screenshot from the report where Almaz-Antey's simulation was added to the report and it was concluded that the 3 simulations that was ordered was consistent. ( one independent, one from Ukraine and one from Almaz-Antey the Russian manufacturer of the BUK). It was determined that the missile was fired within an area of 320 square kilometers without assigning blames or confirming the actual place it was fired since more evidence will be needed and it was beyond the scope of the investigation

The fact that Russia's submission of its own findings was mentioned (KEYWORD:MENTIONED) in this report doesn't mean it was admissible evidence in determining the reason(s) behind the downing of MH17

Missy89:
Flight recorder info was released as well, debunking your earlier claim that it wasn't, that was how it was determined that the missile exploded on top of the plane (screenshot added)

Nice try, but nah, flight recorder info WASN'T released. What was released was akin to someone saying Missy left Ikoyi at 5am this morning and arrived in Maryland at 12 noon. Who she met with inbetween, how many place(s) she branched off to and how long she stayed in those place(s), we do not know! . Missy, we really are curious to know what transpired between air traffic control and MH17. We wanna know na!

Missy89:
As per not assigning blame, Lets wait for the criminal inquiry, That is another report entirely. This report however blames Ukraine for not protecting her airspace and families of people that died on the plane are suing Ukraine already for the negligence

Somewhere we arrive at some sort of concurrence. Yes, there is the criminal inquiry which I think Russia might actually be a part of but I would need to confirm that but if all evidence submitted by Russia isn't admissible, we are back to that audi alterem partem and Nemo Judex in Causa Sua mumbo jumbo Appleyard mentioned earlier

Missy89:
Appleyard

You said -The fact that the investigation was even conducted by parties with self interest to the case, instead of being done openly by the United Nations. (i pity the truth)
Malaysia proposed this but Russia VETOED it

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/29/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-un-idUSKCN0Q32GS20150729

Like in my reply to MeanandSum in this thread here is my reply again to this action by Russia that has been twisted to be intepreted as something else - a malicious attempt by Russia to obstruct an investigation and get in the way of justice.

Read that Reuters article again. Sentences such as these pop up:

Russia vetoes bid to set up atribunal for downed flight MH17

Russian U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said it was premature to set up an international tribunal.

"This in our view indicates the fact that political purposes were more important for them than practical objectives. This of course is regrettable," Churkin said. "Russia stands ready to cooperate in the conduct of a full, independent and objective investigation of the reasons and circumstances of the crash."

NairaMinted:

Not so fast, Missy! You wanna play a fast one but you won't get away with the Houdini trick!

The fact that Russia's submission of its own findings was mentioned (KEYWORD:MENTIONED) in this report doesn't mean it was admissible evidence in determining the reason(s) behind the downing of MH17

Appleyard said Russia evidence was thrown out. Evidence showed that was a lie. No evidence was admissible since the report wasn't a criminal inquiry. The point was to determine the place the buk was fired. Final report showed that 3 simulation was used to determine the conclusion. One of it Russian.

NairaMinted:

Nice try, but nah, flight recorder info WASN'T released. What was released was akin to someone saying Missy left Ikoyi at 5am this morning and arrived in Maryland at 12 noon. Who she met with inbetween, how many place(s) she branched off to and how long she stayed in those place(s), we do not know! . Missy, we really are curious to know what transpired between air traffic control and MH17. We wanna know na!

This is gibberish. The report mentioned and gave all the details about the flight recorder. The last few seconds was even played in other to determine the sound of the missile when it exploded or explain and strange sound on the cockpit. Screenshot attached

NairaMinted:

Somewhere we arrive at some sort of concurrence. Yes, there is the criminal inquiry which I think Russia might actually be a part of but I would need to confirm that but if all evidence submitted by Russia isn't admissible, we are back to that audi alterem partem and Nemo Judex in Causa Sua mumbo jumbo Appleyard mentioned earlier

This makes no sense as well. The final criminal inquiry is not out you are already crying foul. Till then, analyzing it doesn't make any sense.

NairaMinted:


Like in my reply to MeanandSum in this thread here is my reply again to this action by Russia that has been twisted to be intepreted as something else - a malicious attempt by Russia to obstruct an investigation and get in the way of justice.

Read that Reuters article again. Sentences such as these pop up:

Russia vetoes bid to set up atribunal for downed flight MH17

Russian U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said it was premature to set up an international tribunal.

"This in our view indicates the fact that political purposes were more important for them than practical objectives. This of course is regrettable," Churkin said. "Russia stands ready to cooperate in the conduct of a full, independent and objective investigation of the reasons and circumstances of the crash."

Again, Appleyard said they should have gone to the united nations. Evidence showed that malaysia did But Russia Vetoed it yes or no? If Russia thinks it is premature to set up a tribunal, They could have worked with the sponsors of the bill with a caveat that the tribunal should be set up at a later date. After all, they pressured nation states to change the document from "Shooting down" to" downing"

Making up excuses wont fly.

Missy89:


Again, Appleyard said they should have gone to the united nations. Evidence showed that malaysia did But Russia Vetoed it yes or no? If Russia thinks it is premature to set up a tribunal, They could have worked with the sponsors of the bill with a caveat that the tribunal should be set up at a later date. After all, they pressured nation states to change the document from "Shooting down" to" downing"

Making up excuses wont fly.

No wonder you and your online boyfriend, Shymm3x really do get into it! You have just reiterated what I had earlier provided you as an answer.

"Shooting down" to "Downing" and rightly so cos the cause(s) and not yet been confirmed. It is an absolutely pragmatic and cautious approach to an investigation, madam! What is the malicious intent that you are insinuating?? Huh? I am really confused!

NairaMinted:


No wonder you and your online boyfriend, Shymm3x really do get into it! You have just reiterated what I had earlier provided you as an answer.

"Shooting down" to "Downing" and rightly so cos the cause(s) and not yet been confirmed. It is an absolutely pragmatic and cautious approach to an investigation, madam! What is the malicious intent that you are insinuating?? Huh? I am really confused!

Are u trying to mention him so that he can come here and save you? Loll

Point is, resolutions and motions are passed by cutting deals in the UN. If Russia was interested in a fair criminal inquiry, she can insist that the tribunal be set up at a later date after the political storm not veto it. And malaysia will change the details of the document. Chikena!

Malaysia wanted the un secretary general to appoint the members and judges of the tribunal. What could be more fair than that?

Missy89:


Are u trying to mention him so that he can come here and save you? Loll

Point is, resolutions and motions are passed by cutting deals in the UN. If Russia was interested in a fair criminal inquiry, she can insist that the tribunal be set up at a later date after the political storm not veto it. And malaysia will change the details of the document. Chikena!

Malaysia wanted the un secretary general to appoint the members and judges of the tribunal. What could be more fair than that?

Save ko, safe ni......For the fact that I mentioned him, I now need him abi? .....I am really not cut out for a Mars Vs. Venus kinda discourse... Lets stick to the issue and avoid intentional distractions .....

Whether Russia had mentioned that the tribunal be set up at that point in time at a later date or not, doesn't matter. A veto is a veto. Reasonable explanation why a bill was vetoed is good enough under any sun. Russia is under no obligation whatsoever to suggest, mention or indicate interest in setting up a tribunal at a later date - again, at that point in time.

An investigation is far from complete and you are rushing for a tribunal! Tribunal based on what exactly? Is that the way things work in the United States?


You avoided my "Shooting down" to "Downing" reply...... WINK WINK

NairaMinted:


Save ko, safe ni......For the fact that I mentioned him, I now need him abi? .....I am really not cut out for a Mars Vs. Venus kinda discourse... Lets stick to the issue and avoid intentional distractions .....

Whether Russia had mentioned that the tribunal be set up at that point in time at a later date or not, doesn't matter. A veto is a veto. Reasonable explanation why a bill was vetoed is good enough under any sun. Russia is under no obligation whatsoever to suggest, mention or indicate interest in setting up a tribunal at a later date - again, at that point in time.

An investigation is far from complete and you are rushing for a tribunal! Tribunal based on what exactly? Is that the way things work in the United States?


You avoid my "Shooting down" to "Downing" reply...... WINK WINK

You mean your reasonable explanation?. Bills are vetoed because of personal interest nothing more nothing less.

I don't understand the response you are looking for. When I said shooting down to downing, I was pointing out to how nations work together to get a resolution that will be acceptable to every party passed.

Missy89:


You mean your reasonable explanation?. Bills are vetoed because of personal interest nothing more nothing less.

You see Missy, this is a typical guy versus chic debate/argument where cues are missed, retorts are taken outta context and explanations are misconstrued - hence the Mars Vs Venus comment.

Whether Russia provided a "reasonable" explanation for a veto or not, it don't matter. Of course it for personal interests and perceived threat to national security. The reasonable explanation comment was rhetorical in the sense that Russia didn't really need to provide one, but since you were such a cry baby about their veto, they duh, gave you a "reasonable" one, so take that!

Missy89:
I don't understand the response you are looking for. When I said shooting down to downing, I was pointing out to how nations work together to get a resolution that will be acceptable to every party passed.

You know you are lying. Lets not even go there. Goodnight!

NairaMinted:


You see Missy, this is a typical guy versus chic debate/argument where cues are missed, retorts are taken outta context and explanations are misconstrued - hence the Mars Vs Venus comment.

Whether Russia provided a "reasonable" explanation for a veto or not, it don't matter. Of course it for personal interests and perceived national security. The reasonable explanation comment was rhetorical in the sense that Russia didn't really need to provide one, but since you were such a cry baby about their veto, they duh, gave you a "reasonable" one, so take that!



You know you are lying. Lets not even go there. Goodnight!

Please if u want to argue with me. Post your argument and I will give u my rebuttal. Sex as nothing to do with it. It is not that hard.

Context is always important. I said " if russia wanted a tribunal, they can insist on a later date afterall, they insisted on a change to the first mh17 resolution". So no I am not lying, you just don't have a response. There is nothing to be ashamed about.

Missy89:


Please if u want to argue with me. Post your argument and I will give u my rebuttal. Sex as nothing to do with it. It is not that hard.

Context is always important. I said " if russia wanted a tribunal, they can insist on a later date afterall, they insisted on a change to the first mh17 resolution". So no I am not lying, you just don't have a response. There is nothing to be ashamed about.

Lol! Ashamed?

Anyway, like I said before, Russia is under no obligation to suggest moving the tribunal to another date and you are in no position to suggest that they should have done so. Its that simple!

About the "shooting down" to "downing" advice though, you are saying since Russia advised such, they could have also done same for a tribunal shift right? Thought you were insinuating malicious intent on the part of the Russians.

NairaMinted:


Lol! Ashamed?

Anyway, like I said before, Russia is under no obligation to suggest moving the tribunal to another date and you are in no position to suggest that they should have done so. Its that simple!

About the "shooting down" to "downing" advice though, you are saying since Russia advised such, they could have also done same for a tribunal shift right? Thought you were insinuating malicious intent on the part of the Russians.

Yup

Missy89:


Are u trying to mention him so that he can come here and save you? Loll

Point is, resolutions and motions are passed by cutting deals in the UN. If Russia was interested in a fair criminal inquiry, she can insist that the tribunal be set up at a later date after the political storm not veto it. And malaysia will change the details of the document. Chikena!

Malaysia wanted the un secretary general to appoint the members and judges of the tribunal. What could be more fair than that?

Are you horn.y?

Why do you keep troubling this guy?

Shymm3x:


Are you horn.y?

Why do you keep troubling this guy?

'
Who wants to know?

I was talking to appleyard