dolphinheart:
Does the belief by some that the Catholics compiled the bible now become the pillar for their use of images, expecially that of mary?
What is the correlation between compiling the bible and the use of mary's images?.

the use of images is found from the correct interpretation of scriptures.

ByfireByfire:


Catholic Church gave birth to God, breastfed him,put him in nursery and even wrote the Bible. In fact the Catholic Church is greater than God.

Mary gave birth to Jesus(GOD) not church gave birth to Him, Dont betray yourself as a despirado, Quote me on this if you haven't lied on this.

The people that lived with Him, are they not Catholics?

The people that gave you the bible, are they not Catholics?

Do you know the bible more than Catholics that made it and gave it to you?

Out of 15 claims I made , you rejected 3 meaning I get it 80 percent spot on.

Shame for you!!!

ByfireByfire:


Catholic Church gave birth to God, breastfed him,put him in nursery and even wrote the Bible.
You lie better than the devil.

Can you quote me where I said these?

Heavenly hypocrisy! Derailment to the heaven s.

I smell jealousy and envy, keep twisting my post to suit your hypocrisy.

dolphinheart:


Which scrolls sis, can you mention them ?

The books of John, Peter and even all the epistles of Paul are all scroll, It is the Catholic church that picked some of them and called it bible.

They were called scroll because modern paper materials have not been put to use then.

dolphinheart:

What is the correlation between compiling the bible and the use of mary's images?.

The answer is simple.
Since the Catholic church is perfect to compile a perfect bible, they are also perfect to compile the uses of Mary's image.
I drop my pen.

dolphinheart:


Which scrolls sis, can you mention them ?

You should probably search it out yourself. Google has made information a lot easier to get you know.

Kamxin:


Mary gave birth to Jesus(GOD) not church gave birth to Him, Dont betray yourself as a despirado, Quote me on this if you haven't lied on this.

The people that lived with Him, are they not Catholics?

The people that gave you the bible, are they not Catholics?

Do you know the bible more than Catholics that made it and gave it to you?

Out of 15 claims I made , you rejected 3 meaning I get it 80 percent spot on.

Shame for you!!!

Go learn how to speak english and how not to lie. Afterwards we can talk.

Ubenedictus:
are you aware that when Jesus was alive the Jews the jews didn't have a concluding canon of the old testament? every jew followed his rabbi on what book to accept. the church didn't have a definite new testament for over 300yrs. so my dear even the church called in rev didn't have bibles. the bible was collected by the church fathers canonize at the council of hippo and cathage.

Where you there? Did you witness it. Several reference to the old testament scriptures were made in the new testament.


Jesus himself stated in the new testament that the scripture cannot be broken jn. 10:35. So if there was anything wrong with the sacred scriptures then Jesus or his apostles would have spotted it and condemned it as they condemned a lot of unwholesome practices in their day.


I reject every Catholic Church history trying to make the scripture irrelevant or trying to allude that Roman Catholic wrote or compiled the scripture.


As far as neither you nor I were there to witness it such claims are false especially when they are made by a backsliden, idolatrous church.

ByfireByfire:


Go learn how to speak english and how not to lie. Afterwards we can talk.

Don't derail this thread, prove and disprove with fact and figure as Jesus did.

You appears to be strong on vitriol but weak on substance. How can you stand something on nothing and expect it to stand?

Still SHAME for you , you disagree with 20 percent of my claims with no substance to support your stand. Shameful indeed.

@ Ubenedictus(m)

yeah, during the making of the temple the bible records that several images were added which were never commanded by God, they include bulls, flowers and several winged creatures which God never commanded yet after the building of the temple God rested therehe didn't reject it, he didn't scream idolatry as you guys scream today. if God as was against those images that he didn't command, why then
did he not reject the temple that contained them?

BROS, us the scriptures, use it to list these images, let's look at them, and let's see if its similar to the use of the image of mary. My request is simple enough. Show us the images with the use of the scriptures!

you are grasping at straws, the people made those images for them selves under God's instruction and when they built the temple they made several more without Gods instruction

Use the scriptures to show us which image you are talking about and we will look at the similarity between them and marys image

haahahahah, so what about the images made in the temple
without the express permission of God?[/quote]
I was talking about the images earlier mentioned in which they were said to bow down to.
If you have new images you want to talk about pls show us using the scriptures.

simple after God gave
commands that images should
be made even the isrealites
understood that God was not
against all images but only
against idols so when the
temple was built they put there
several images.
let me ask you, do you know
what happened after the ark
was lost? there was no ark in
thetemple when Jesus was
alive, Do you know that yet
people including Jesus went
there to pray, do you know what
was there? a drawing made on
a cloth.... that was it, there was
no ark yet Jesus went to a
temple and called it a house of
God a house of prayer when all
that was there was a mere
image on a cloth. even Jesus
must be laughing at you, the
jews will be laughing at you
because it seems those ancient
rabbis understood the bible
better than you do, it seems
Jesus understood it much
better.
how is ur day going?

Bro, I dnt know what happened to the ark, do you?

How do you know that there was no ark in the temple when jesus was alive?
And how do you know what was in the most holy when the ark was not there?
It was called house of god cus god approved, annointed that house,not because the ark was in it!.
My day went well, thank you.

Ubenedictus:
the use of images is found from the correct interpretation of scriptures.

Now use those scriptures, mention those images and let's see if there is similarities between its use and that of the use of marys image.

Kamxin:


The books of John, Peter and even all the epistles of Paul are all scroll, It is the Catholic church that picked some of them and called it bible.

They were called scroll because modern paper materials have not been put to use then.

So which scroll did they not pick and why? As you said they "picked some".

Kamxin:


The answer is simple.
Since the Catholic church is perfect to compile a perfect bible, they are also perfect to compile the uses of Mary's image.
I drop my pen.

Yep, they where also perfect to support hitler during the war, perfect to do what they did in south America, perfect to support the crusade, perfect to kill galelio(?) .
How was mary compiled ?

ByfireByfire:

As far as neither you nor I were there to witness it such claims are false especially when they are made by a backsliden, idolatrous church.

Thank God, he has shot himself on the foot, Any claim he didn't witness is fallacious, quoting the book of John which is fallacious is a double standard. He didn't witness John writing it, so speak from the both side of same mouth, heap fallacy upon fallacies. He just entered a cul-de-sac.

By now it is no longer obvious to everyone that this one is no longer lying in but prostrating in state.

dolphinheart:


So which scroll did they not pick and why? As you said they "picked some".

There are many written by Paul, Peter, multiple apostles etc Google can help you see few of them as most is destroyed already during Roman Empire prosecution.

Not all books are divinely inspired, e.g writing down all the route that will take Paul from Athens to Rome, or how best to preserve written script. That why some are picked through the guidance of the holy spirit which Jesus promised He would send to His church and which would be with the church till He return.

dolphinheart:


Yep, they where also perfect to support hitler during the war, perfect to do what they did in south America, perfect to support the crusade, perfect to kill galelio(?) .
How was mary compiled ?

Perfect to produce the bible means perfect in doctrine and not perfect in sports and politics, Perfect in religion and perfect in NairaBET are not samething.

Uses of Mary's image is written in books of Catholic doctrine. It is in the market but I wonder if your church have doctrine at all, you have been here picking holes in Catholic doctrine, without pointing to any better doctrines your church have to so that we Catholics can look at it as a reasonable alternative. Or mention the Name of your church so that I can Google it.


Do you say that the Catholic church supported hitler to kill Catholics, that statement is a paradox. Please quote any pope writing that support your accusations.

Mind you the Jews were safer when the Catholic church is more powerful especially before protestants came to existence.

Kamxin:


There are many written by Paul, Peter, multiple apostles etc Google can help you see few of them as most is destroyed already during Roman Empire prosecution.

I dnt want many, just mention a few . Some of the dropped scrolls you know.

Not all books are divinely inspired, e.g writing down all the route that will take Paul from Athens to Rome, or how best to preserve written script. That why some are picked through the guidance of the holy spirit which Jesus promised He would send to His church and which would be with the church till He return.

if a book is not inspired, it wunt be in the scriptures, does not matter what the church says or do.
So even if the catholic church said they compiled the scriptures, any lay man could have achieved that cus all the scriptures are inspired. If it is not inspired , it wunt be there or picked.
So therefore, what did the catholic church do that is awe inspiring to call them perfect. Did they drop an uninspired book? Or did they not compile all inspired book. ?

dolphinheart:

I dnt want many, just mention a few . Some of the dropped scrolls you know.

if a book is not inspired, it wunt be in the scriptures, does not matter what the church says or do.
So even if the catholic church said they compiled the scriptures, any lay man could have achieved that cus all the scriptures are inspired. If it is not inspired , it wunt be there or picked.
So therefore, what did the catholic church do that is awe inspiring to call them perfect. Did they drop an uninspired book? Or did they not compile all inspired book. ?

Did you search Google as I instructed you? If you did you should be the one listing the books here.

Can you get get a book written 300 years ago and prove whom the author is talk more of if the holy spirit inspired it or not. Can you prove if the words of Nigerian politicians were edited or not before being published in the national dailies.

Kamxin:


Perfect to produce the bible means perfect in doctrine and not perfect in sports and politics, Perfect in religion and perfect in NairaBET are not something

The bible was compiled by the power of god. He used imperfect people to write, keep it safe and compile it, it does not mean those who did these are perfect as individual or as a body. The authors are not perfect yet the supposed compiler are claiming perfection.
Ur doctrine did not teach you how to handle politics abi?neither did the book you perfectly compiled.
You claim to compile a book, yet you did not read it to follow what it says.

Do you say that the Catholic church supported hitler to kill Catholics, that statement is a paradox. Please quote any pope writing that support your accusations.

Is the pope the church, the church consist of members, did the pope condemn and expelled all members that killed and participated in the war? Both for hitler and otherwise ?

Mind you the Jews were safer when the Catholic church is more powerful especially before protestants came to existence.

Yea yea. We read about the Spanish inquisition.

Kamxin:


Did you search Google as I instructed you? If you did you should be the one listing the books here.

You dnt have the authority to instruct me Bro.
If you believe some where picked, list one or two that where not picked. Prove ur statement to be right. U dnt tell ur accuser to go and look for evidence to acquit you for you.

Can you get get a book written 300 years ago and prove whom the author is talk more of if the holy spirit inspired it or not. Can you prove if the words of Nigerian politicians were edited or not before being published in the national dailies.

Are you saying the church did not know that the book they compiled are inspired? Or that some of the authors of the book where not inspired cus we dnt know who wrote some of the book.?

Ignorance is bad, sometimes I just wish people could just have a mind reset button to use anytime to think clearly:

1st : Christ never instructed anyone to write, except the book of revelations which was told to John to record.

2nd : I want to thank St Luke his first chapter made us understand something "that he just tried to write an orderly account" "I.e there have been different accounts of Christ given by different people".

3rd: Last chapter of John's gospel clearly wrote that all Christ said and did couldn't be put down else, the world will be too small

4th: Before Moses wrote the 1st five books, the only form of communication was spoken language, written language was just starting.

5th: Christianity cannot be judged by what you or I think is correct, the bible never wrote I am the sole source of salvation, funny but true Christ still visits people.

6th: The bible books were written in various languages and not one like u think also it contained fragments and all these fragments were scattered around the various synagogues in Isreal, why? because it was made available to educate people far and wide sometimes portions were duplicated to make certain parts more available until St Jerome later put all the portions into one and termed it bible.

7th: There are up to 15 different gospel accounts some you know and some u haven't heard of eg (Thomas, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Judas Iscariot, John, Barabas, Philip, etc) and other books like eg (the youth of Jesus account according to John, John's Genesis, etc), many of these books didn't make it to what we term today as bible.

8th: Luther removed the book of James and revelation from his bible and later added them back, then he termed them as books of leisure study, do you know why, it's easy PAUL(sorry dats my name) epistles sometimes didn't fully explain things it said, and this sometimes goes against what James wrote e.g PAUL( Faith alone saves), James (Faith without works is dead) and many more. hence dats what prompted him to do so.

Now I hope you get a clearer view of somethings.
Peace

Kamxin:


Thank God, he has shot himself on the foot, Any claim he didn't witness is fallacious, quoting the book of John which is fallacious is a double standard. He didn't witness John writing it, so speak from the both side of same mouth, heap fallacy upon fallacies. He just entered a cul-de-sac.

By now it is no longer obvious to everyone that this one is no longer lying in but prostrating in state.

When you are done mocking yourself and fighting with yourself and when you start speaking some sense I'll know. Until then, I don't even see you. I don't engage kids on this forum.

ByfireByfire:


When you are done mocking yourself and fighting with yourself and when you start speaking some sense I'll know. Until then, I don't even see you. I don't engage kids on this forum.

He is not mocking anyone. He was addressing the point you made that without being a witness one cannot claim to know something. He now applied your same point to the writing of the gospels, an event which you are not a witness of yet you claim to know what is going on.

dolphinheart:

You dnt have the authority to instruct me Bro.
If you believe some where picked, list one or two that where not picked. Prove ur statement to be right. U dnt tell ur accuser to go and look for evidence to acquit you for you.

Brothers, I hope I can put your jousting with Kamxin to rest with this little list:



1-The book of Jubilees
2-Epistle of Barnabas
3-Shepherd of Hermas
4-Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans
5- 1 Clement
6- 2 Clement
7 Preaching of Peter
8 Apocalypse of Peter
9 Gospel According to the Egyptians
10 Gospel According to the Hebrews

There are churches that still include the book of Jubilees in their bible. Mainly The Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

PastorAIO:


Brothers, I hope I can put your jousting with Kamxin to rest with this little list:



1-The book of Jubilees
2-Epistle of Barnabas
3-Shepherd of Hermas
4-Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans
5- 1 Clement
6- 2 Clement
7 Preaching of Peter
8 Apocalypse of Peter
9 Gospel According to the Egyptians
10 Gospel According to the Hebrews

There are churches that still include the book of Jubilees in their bible. Mainly The Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

My question to you is
1. Are these books inspired.?
2. Why where they not added to the one the catholic said they compiled?

dolphinheart:


My question to you is
1. Are these books inspired.?
2. Why where they not added to the one the catholic said they compiled?

A couple of things. My purpose was to put an end to the back and forth bickering between you and kamxin. That purpose has been served.

Secondly, the very form of your questions suggests that you are not aware of my position on issues like this.

1. I have no idea what you mean by this special inspiration that the bible is supposed to have. I believe that the entirety of history and all that it contains would proceed according to the will of an omnipotent being. That includes the words on the newspapers I read in the morning. I can be spoken to from any angle. I can see a flower and receive a 'rhema' from it. Our inability to see the work of God in everything around us is due to our spiritual blindness and not because God concentrated all he has to say into a book.

So my answer to your first question would be Yes. Yes, as with all else they are inspired.

2. You would have to ask the catholics that. Everyone has their agenda in picking texts. The Ethiopian Orthodox church use Jubilees, for instance, but the Catholics don't. Martin Luther King removed the book of James from the bible because it didn't fit into his agenda. To understand why books are added or removed from the bible you have to understand the doctrines of the Church that is using said bible.

dolphinheart:


My question to you is
1. Are these books inspired.?
2. Why where they not added to the one the catholic said they compiled?

You have your work cut out by PastorAIO, I wonder why it is hard for you to throw Google questions to Google.

1. Any book that someone sits down to write, he is inspired by someone or something to write it.

2. They were not added because the holy spirit led the Catholic church not to do so(John 16:13). Is your church led by the holy spirit? If you say yes why?.

But why are you asking , do you accept what the Catholic church have given you hook, line and sinker or do you reject it(bible)?

dolphinheart:

You dnt have the authority to instruct me Bro.
If you believe some where picked, list one or two that where not picked. Prove ur statement to be right. U dnt tell ur accuser to go and look for evidence to acquit you for you.

Why would you throw questions you have you have the answers? Are you Jamb? Don't you have pastor in your church? Take some of these questions to them and give us a reply.

dolphinheart:
Are you saying the church did not know that the book they compiled are inspired? Or that some of the authors of the book where not inspired cus we dnt know who wrote some of the book.?

The Catholic church knows nothing, the holy spirit knows everything, but since Christ sent the holy spirit to her church it has led her to all truth(John 16:13) The actions of spirit can only be authenticated with the help of spirit.

You keep asking questions but can't answer any one I asked you, by the way, what is the name of your church?. Is it led by holy spirit.

Please do not ask any Q again, if you cannot answer any one.

dolphinheart:

Is the pope the church, the church consist of members, did the pope condemn and expelled all members that killed and participated in the war? Both for hitler and otherwise ?

Yea yea. We read about the Spanish inquisition.

These people that orchestrated the war, did they publicly declared themselves Catholic, even Hitler, did you see him in Catholic church?.

Remember, these Germans are the ones that fought the Catholic church through Martin Luther, and have more protestants than Catholic. So the question goes back to you. Did the protestant denominations condemned hitler and his associates or is world wars not part of protestant reformation?

Secondly, during during Spanish inquisition, protestant reformation the state is more powerful than the church, so the church cannot stop them, even modern slave trade, when the Catholic church was the most powerful, it brought salve trade to an end, only for it to restart with protestant reformation.

So the Jews were safe, when the Catholic church is powerful than when protestants were powerful.

ByfireByfire:


Where you there? Did you witness it. Several reference to the old testament scriptures were made in the new testament.


Jesus himself stated in the new testament that the scripture cannot be broken jn. 10:35. So if there was anything wrong with the sacred scriptures then Jesus or his apostles would have spotted it and condemned it as they condemned a lot of unwholesome practices in their day.


I reject every Catholic Church history trying to make the scripture irrelevant or trying to allude that Roman Catholic wrote or compiled the scripture.


As far as neither you nor I were there to witness it such claims are false especially when they are made by a backsliden, idolatrous church.

i'll add ur question as one of d dumbest i have been ask on nl. I don't need to be there, there are available written records dating back to that period. Read up and b enlightened.

There was no new testament during d life time of Jesus, d jews didnt even have a unified canon at the time.

The apostles didnt write a bible they wrote a few individual letters and distributed then to a few churches, it was d church who gathered some of those scattered letters and left some out, added them to the old testament and called it d bible.

dolphinheart:


Yep, they where also perfect to support hitler during the war, perfect to do what they did in south America, perfect to support the crusade, perfect to kill galelio(?) .
How was mary compiled ?

stop lying dear. Nobody killed galileo and the church didnt support hitler in his war.

dolphinheart:

Now use those scriptures, mention those images and let's see if there is similarities between its use and that of the use of marys image.

before i do so, kindly tell me ur point cos u seem to be shifting d goal post every now and then.

Are u saying it is sinful to make any image for religious use, or that it it sinful to make such images without express divine command.

If i dont know ur position then i'll nt know how to respond.