chuna1985:

I don't want to suffer for any human being. God has given me life, that's all am interested in.

No one is asking you to suffer for humanity(Christ did that already); what we are talking about is that towards the end of days,the witnesses of the gospel of Christ shall be persecuted for their faith.
The interpretation here is that as Christ died for humanity,so should his followers be ready to die for him,toward the apocalypse.

EVarn:
No one is asking you to suffer for humanity(Christ did that already); what we are talking about is that towards the end of days,the witnesses of the gospel of Christ shall be persecuted for their faith.
The interpretation here is that as Christ died for humanity,so should his followers be ready to die for him,toward the apocalypse.

Pain is repulsive and nobody wants to suffer pain if they can avoid it. But believers can't divorce themselves from trials

vooks:

Pain is repulsive and nobody wants to suffer pain if they can avoid it. But believers can't divorce themselves from trials

Indeed,even christ prayed to God to make the cup of tribulations pass over him.Nobody wants to suffer pain,it is a weakness of the flesh that is common to even the holiest children of God.

EVarn:
No one is asking you to suffer for humanity(Christ did that already); what we are talking about is that towards the end of days,the witnesses of the gospel of Christ shall be persecuted for their faith.
The interpretation here is that as Christ died for humanity,so should his followers be ready to die for him,toward the apocalypse.

There is nothing like Apocalypse.

vooks:
Highcuerayte

The two witnesses are two men.
A basic and sensible approach to Revelation is to take everything literally unless there are sufficient reasons not to. The biggest mistake one can make in Revelation is interpreting a literal event or person or entity as symbolic and then interpreting this 'symbol'. The result is epic confusion. Equally erroneous is interpreting a symbol as literal.

Why are they men?
1. They are called thus
2. They preach the gospel
3. Their description is amidst other men
4. They are killed
5. They are resurrected
6. There is NOTHING suggesting they are not.

Please observe they are killed by the Beast yet the Beast only shows up in chapter 13.

Please summarize why you think the two witnesses are two groups of individuals and not two men

Assumption I supposed has been and is the problem of many believers of which unfortunately you fall into the category. You made one major erroneous assumption which umbrella minor assumptions, and that is "They are men."

The Scripture says and I quote "I will give power to my two witnesses and they shall prophesy" Not "I will give power to two men and they shall preach the Gospel"

To understand the Scripture quoted above we need to underline the subject of focus. Which are: "Witnesses" and "Prophecy"

Now witnesses, what and what are used to describe the two witnesses?

- Olives trees (Symbolic description)
- Candlesticks (Symbolic description)

Now what is the literal presentation of "Olives trees"? Paul wrote of the Church as the Olive trees of which branches (People) are taken off (The Jews) that wild branches (People) may be grafted in (Gentiles). And here we have two Olives trees symbolically representing two Churches. Remember Christ in the vision addresses seven churches (Churches in the Seven continents of the world) five are failing (Ephesus,Symrna,Pergamos,Sardis and Laodiceans) which Christ called for their repentance and two stand (Thyatira and Philadelphia) which Christ told to hold firm till he come with these promises given to them:

- Churches in Thyatira : I will give him power over nations (same with the two witnesses; they have power over the nations )

- Churches in Philadelphia: I will keep thee from the hour of tribulation which shall come over the whole world (Same with the two witnesses no one was able to harm them: thus they are safe)

Now what is the literal presentation of Candlestick? Christ in the visions explained the mystery of the seven candle sticks he called them "Seven Churches." But the two witnesses are only two out of the seven candle sticks; Two out of the seven churches each present in the seven continents of the world.

We have now established what two olives trees and two candlesticks stands for, they are two out of the seven churches. Understand that the two witnesses are both the Olives and Candle stick presenting one thing. The double usage of symbolism is to confirm their identity as the two churches.In other words the olives trees are the candle sticks and the candle sticks the olive trees meaning the two witnesses are the two witnesses (Substituting that identity). These presents us with a fact I just learn from the Lord as I write this, 5/7 of the Christian population will be killed in the tribulation while 2/7(two witnesses) will be preserved to prophecy for the latter 3½ years of the tribulation.

Also I will let you know this the beast exist before the two witnesses were born (The man-child) only they have not began the killing of Christians . The birth of the man child (which is the two witnesses revealed by the Scripture as two churches of God throughout the continent) caused Satan and his angels (Mistaken for aliens) to be casted out from the second heaven( outer space) down to this earth (Satan will be physically present on earth). Their casting out results in persecutions of Christians that the angel cried out "Woe to earth." It is during the latter 3½ years that the mark of the beast will be enforced resulting in great persecution of the Church of which 5/7 will fall but the 2/7 will be safe prophesying and afflicting the nations with their power. But at the end of the 3½years the beast will make war against them throughout the whole continents of the world having finished their missions they will surrender thier life and be killed.Note: The city is symbolically called Egypt and Sodom where their Lord was crucified. Now Christ was Crucified in Golgothat and not Jerusalem which is not a City. Sodom and Egypt by presentation denotes Place of immorality and Captivity and only one City in the Bible carry both title, "The Great Babylon" which explained is present on the seven mountains which are seven continents of the world.

The question here my brother is do you want to be part of the conquered Victor ( The 5/7 churches) or victorious Victor (2/7 churches)?

If the latter is your choice then it's time you come out of Babylon City of deception. Rip off the lies you have been fed in churches and read the Scripture for yourself. For I tell you we are already in the early 3½ years of the great tribulation.

vooks:

Pain is repulsive and nobody wants to suffer pain if they can avoid it. But believers can't divorce themselves from trials

In flesh it is but when you attain the stature of Christ it's not.

Highcuerayte:


Assumption I supposed has been and is the problem of many believers of which unfortunately you fall into the category. You made one major erroneous assumption which umbrella minor assumptions, and that is "They are men."

The Scripture says and I quote "I will give power to my two witnesses and they shall prophesy" Not "I will give power to two men and they shall preach the Gospel"

You are full of assumptions and you think to teach others on how not to assume.
The very word WITNESS. What else is a witness other than men?

To understand the Scripture quoted above we need to underline the subject of focus. Which are: "Witnesses" and "Prophecy"

Now witnesses, what and what are used to describe the two witnesses?

- Olives trees (Symbolic description)
- Candlesticks (Symbolic description)

Now what is the literal presentation of "Olives trees"? Paul wrote of the Church as the Olive trees of which branches (People) are taken off (The Jews) that wild branches (People) may be grafted in (Gentiles). And here we have two Olives trees symbolically representing two Churches. Remember Christ in the vision addresses seven churches (Churches in the Seven continents of the world) five are failing (Ephesus,Symrna,Pergamos,Sardis and Laodiceans) which Christ called for their repentance and two stand (Thyatira and Philadelphia) which Christ told to hold firm till he come with these promises given to them:

Faulty thinking and wild assumptions are your forte
1. Paul wrote of ONE tree with Jews being naturals and Gentiles being grafted in. Not two trees, one for Jews and one of Gentiles
2. The seven churches are in Achaia/Asia a province in Roman Empire somewhere in modern Turkey and not SEVEN continents

- Churches in Thyatira : I will give him power over nations (same with the two witnesses; they have power over the nations )

Which Bible are you reading?
Thyatira is given power over nations AFTER they overcome to the end while the witnesses are given power. Stop adding to the Word

- Churches in Philadelphia: I will keep thee from the hour of tribulation which shall come over the whole world (Same with the two witnesses no one was able to harm them: thus they are safe)

Nonsense. The witnesses are KILLED. So what killed them? Did they commit suicide?

Now what is the literal presentation of Candlestick? Christ in the visions explained the mystery of the seven candle sticks he called them "Seven Churches." But the two witnesses are only two out of the seven candle sticks; Two out of the seven churches each present in the seven continents of the world.

Fertile thinking. Who told you they are TWO out of SEVEN? They are TWO. And who told you the seven represent continents? He seven churches are LITERAL seven Chuches in Asia Minor.

We have now established what two olives trees and two candlesticks stands for, they are two out of the seven churches.

No you haven't . You have just made wild guesses

Understand that the two witnesses are both the Olives and Candle stick presenting one thing. The double usage of symbolism is to confirm their identity as the two churches.

You have ONE Church the body of Christ and not two churches. That's heresy.

In other words the olives trees are the candle sticks and the candle sticks the olive trees meaning the two witnesses are the two witnesses (Substituting that identity).

Ok

These presents us with a fact I just learn from the Lord as I write this, 5/7 of the Christian population will be killed in the tribulation while 2/7(two witnesses) will be preserved to prophecy for the latter 3½ years of the tribulation.

Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormons and claimed he learnt it from God. Your visions,dreams and imaginations MUST be subjected to scriptures. 5/7 and 2/7 is fertile imagination overworked

Also I will let you know this the beast exist before the two witnesses were born (The man-child) only they have not began the killing of Christians .

Not necessarily. I'd say the beast was readying himself for the kill long before the two witnesses got power.

The birth of the man child (which is the two witnesses revealed by the Scripture as two churches of God throughout the continent) caused Satan and his angels (Mistaken for aliens) to be casted out from the second heaven( outer space) down to this earth (Satan will be physically present on earth).

Fertile imagination. You have just made the two witnesses the man child. The man child never dies but the witnesses die for 3.5 days

Their casting out results in persecutions of Christians that the angel cried out "Woe to earth." It is during the latter 3½ years that the mark of the beast will be enforced resulting in great persecution of the Church of which 5/7 will fall but the 2/7 will be safe prophesying and afflicting the nations with their power. But at the end of the 3½years the beast will make war against them throughout the whole continents of the world having finished their missions they will surrender thier life and be killed.Note: The city is symbolically called Egypt and Sodom where their Lord was crucified. Now Christ was Crucified in Golgothat and not Jerusalem which is not a City.

Jesus was crucified right outside Jerusalem. Do you have the name of the City he was crucified other than Jerusalem?

John 19:20 (KJV)
This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin

Sodom and Egypt by presentation denotes Place of immorality and Captivity and only one City in the Bible carry both title, "The Great Babylon" which explained is present on the seven mountains which are seven continents of the world.

Where was Jesus crucified? In the seven continents?
[b]Revelation 11:8-13 King James Version (KJV)

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.[/b]

So how could an earthquake in Golgotha a hill, a walking distance from Jerusalem kill 7000?

The question here my brother is do you want to be part of the conquered Victor ( The 5/7 churches) or victorious Victor (2/7 churches)?

A better question is, why do you listen to lying vanities and pass them as the voice of Holy Spirit?

If the latter is your choice then it's time you come out of Babylon City of deception. Rip off the lies you have been fed in churches and read the Scripture for yourself. For I tell you we are already in the early 3½ years of the great tribulation.

In short I should discard scriptures and pursue your visions?

Highcuerayte:
In flesh it is but when you attain the stature of Christ it's not.

It was equally painful for Jesus. Have you attained the 'stature of Christ'? And exactly what is the 'stature of Christ'?

vooks:

It was equally painful for Jesus. Have you attained the 'stature of Christ'? And exactly what is the 'stature of Christ'?

The stature of Christ is exercising the fruit "Self control" Perfectly. Solitude,Hunger,Pain,Tongue,Emotions and Sexual Urge. That is the stature of Christ and those to be chosen as the two witnesses will have perfect control over these things.

vooks:

You are full of assumptions and you think to teach others on how not to assume.
The very word WITNESS. What else is a witness other than men?


Faulty thinking and wild assumptions are your forte
1. Paul wrote of ONE tree with Jews being naturals and Gentiles being grafted in. Not two trees, one for Jews and one of Gentiles
2. The seven churches are in Achaia/Asia a province in Roman Empire somewhere in modern Turkey and not SEVEN continents



Which Bible are you reading?
Thyatira is given power over nations AFTER they overcome to the end while the witnesses are given power. Stop adding to the Word


Nonsense. The witnesses are KILLED. So what killed them? Did they commit suicide?


Fertile thinking. Who told you they are TWO out of SEVEN? They are TWO. And who told you the seven represent continents? He seven churches are LITERAL seven Chuches in Asia Minor.


No you haven't . You have just made wild guesses


You have ONE Church the body of Christ and not two churches. That's heresy.

Ok


Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormons and claimed he learnt it from God. Your visions,dreams and imaginations MUST be subjected to scriptures. 5/7 and 2/7 is fertile imagination overworked


Not necessarily. I'd say the beast was readying himself for the kill long before the two witnesses got power.

Fertile imagination. You have just made the two witnesses the man child. The man child never dies but the witnesses die for 3.5 days


Jesus was crucified right outside Jerusalem. Do you have the name of the City he was crucified other than Jerusalem?

John 19:20 (KJV)
This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin


Where was Jesus crucified? In the seven continents?
[b]Revelation 11:8-13 King James Version (KJV)

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.[/b]

So how could an earthquake in Golgotha a hill, a walking distance from Jerusalem kill 7000?

A better question is, why do you listen to lying vanities and pass them as the voice of Holy Spirit?


In short I should discard scriptures and pursue your visions?

lol......no need to explain things to you again seeing you don't even understand the Scriptures you are quoting.

Highcuerayte:
lol......no need to explain things to you again seeing you don't even understand the Scriptures you are quoting.

You have nobody but your fertile imagination and familiar spirits to blame for your delusion

Highcuerayte:
The stature of Christ is exercising the fruit "Self control" Perfectly. Solitude,Hunger,Pain,Tongue,Emotions and Sexual Urge. That is the stature of Christ and those to be chosen as the two witnesses will have perfect control over these things.

Where is that in the scriptures? Did some spirits whisper this to you?
And are you one of those chosen 'as the two witnesses'?

Why do Nigerians fall in love with every brand of madness?

chuna1985:


There is nothing like Apocalypse.

Indeed?

EVarn:
Indeed?

why should the extinction of man bring about d end of the world Is man the only living thing that exist on earth/Universe

Even in d bible, earth was existing before man was created by God. Earth n d universe will continue to exist when we are all gone.

chuna1985:



why should the extinction of man bring about d end of the world Is man the only living thing that exist on earth/Universe

Even in d bible, earth was existing before man was created by God. Earth n d universe will continue to exist when we are all gone.

I believe that the extinction of man itself is the apocalypse.

EVarn:
I believe that the extinction of man itself is the apocalypse.

No, d end of man will not be apocalypse ... The universe is beyond man.

chuna1985:


No, d end of man will not be apocalypse ... The universe is beyond man.

You believe in alien extra-terrestial humanoids?

EVarn:
You believe in alien extra-terrestial humanoids?

I think they might be around or maybe they don't exist...I'm indifferent about dem for now.

chuna1985:



I think they might be around or maybe they don't exist...I'm indifferent about dem for now.

I once heard a theory that both God and satan are extra-terrestial reptilian humanoids who will one day seek to forcefully colonize humanity.
It is quite far-fetched.

EVarn:
I once heard a theory that both God and satan are extra-terrestial reptilian humanoids who will one day seek to forcefully colonize humanity.
It is quite far-fetched.

Even though I don't know the truth, I don't think Satan n God will one day return to colonize us.

Im just interested in living my life, making money, helping d needy, And doing any other thing that will push humanity forward, especially in Africa.

chuna1985:

Even though I don't know the truth, I don't think Satan n God will one day return to colonize us.
Im just interested in living my life, making money, helping d needy, And doing any other thing that will push humanity forward, especially in Africa.

Thats nice enough.
Though acknowledging and believing God is an added backup: afterall,when we all die,we've got to go somewhere.
Someone once said that believing in God is a form of assurance or backup for humanity,if we get old,die and discover that their is no God,then we will at least know that we did something to avoid going to hell.
There is God though.

EVarn:
Thats nice enough.
Though acknowledging and believing God is an added backup: afterall,when we all die,we've got to go somewhere.
Someone once said that believing in God is a form of assurance or backup for humanity,if we get old,die and discover that their is no God,then we will at least know that we did something to avoid going to hell.
There is God though.

I'm not an Atheist, Am kinda Agnostic. I believe in God, But he's just unknowable.

chuna1985:



I'm not an Atheist, Am kinda Agnostic. I believe in God, But he's just unknowable.

Thats understandable.