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If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? - Religion - Nairaland

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If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 11:40pm On Nov 04, 2015
And peter had a wife (1 Corinth 9:5, Matthew. 8 : 14). When did popes stop having wives?
If the Bible says that a bishop MUST be the husband of one wife( Timo 3:2). And the pope is the bishop of Rome...... And the catholic leadership stems from the early church. When did it become forbidden for bishop and priest to marry?
Just thinking..........

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 11:48pm On Nov 04, 2015
Good question!

Catholic church traditions hold more weight than the bible

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 11:55pm On Nov 04, 2015
If Peter was the first pope and he erred in Gal 2:11-14, when did catholic popes become infallible.
Still thinking..........

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by jamex93(m): 12:02am On Nov 05, 2015
I don't argue faith
I only do DAT which is ryt to me

make I no from there go sin

1 Like

Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 12:12am On Nov 05, 2015
If the word for Pope means `father`, why choose it as a title for so sensitive a position, considering matt 23: 9? Considering that Peter was part of the audience. Would Peter ever had accepted such a title? ( 1 Peter 5:1, Peter had a title!).
......thinking still...

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 1:04am On Nov 05, 2015
If Peter said that all believes were priests( 1 Peter 2: 5,9) , and he was the first pope, when did the rules change?

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 1:07am On Nov 05, 2015
Seems everybody's gone to sleep, good night folks.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Ubenedictus(m): 2:53am On Nov 06, 2015
accountable:
If Peter said that all believes were priests( 1 Peter 2: 5,9) , and he was the first pope, when did the rules change?
the rules didn't change, d doctrines never change. The catholic church still teaches that all believers are priests. So u dont know dat?

1 Like

Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Ubenedictus(m): 2:59am On Nov 06, 2015
accountable:
If Peter was the first pope and he erred in Gal 2:11-14, when did catholic popes become infallible.
Still thinking..........
infallibility is a matter of teaching not practice! The popes can be sinners and imperfect like Peter, but they can not authoritatively teach heresy like peter, his authoritative teachings are infallible.
Hope that clarify ur confusion.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:12am On Nov 06, 2015
accountable:
And peter had a wife (1 Corinth 9:5, Matthew. 8 : 14). When did popes stop having wives?
If the Bible says that a bishop MUST be the husband of one wife( Timo 3:2). And the pope is the bishop of Rome...... And the catholic leadership stems from the early church. When did it become forbidden for bishop and priest to marry?
Just thinking..........
u are reading d bible wrong, timothy says 'd bishop should b a husband of one wife', d emphasis is on 'ONE'. That is he must not practice polygamy. There are still married priests in d catholic church till date.

Celibacy is a discipline not a dogma.

2 Likes

Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 10:39am On Nov 06, 2015
accountable:
And peter had a wife (1 Corinth 9:5, Matthew. 8 : 14). When did popes stop having wives?
If the Bible says that a bishop MUST be the husband of one wife( Timo 3:2). And the pope is the bishop of Rome...... And the catholic leadership stems from the early church. When did it become forbidden for bishop and priest to marry?
Just thinking..........


There is not a shred of evidence that Peter was ever ordained Bishop of Rome.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 6:35pm On Nov 06, 2015
@ Ubenedictus Celibacy is a discipline not a dogma.
I guess that:-) by this statement u mean to tell us that Catholic priests can now freely choose whether to marry or not. I wish that were true. What do u say to quote below.

"""During and after the Council, the Magisterium of the Catholic Church has repeatedly re-affirmed the permanent value of the discipline of obligatory clerical celibacy in the Latin Church.[48] Pope John Paul II, synthesizing the deliberations of Ordinary General Assembly VIII of the Synod of Bishops held in 1990, wrote in Pastores dabo vobis (1992), section 29:

The synod fathers clearly and forcefully expressed their thought on this matter in an important proposal which deserves to be quoted here in full: "While in no way interfering with the discipline of the Oriental churches, the synod, in the conviction that perfect chastity in priestly celibacy is a charism, reminds priests that celibacy is a priceless gift of God for the Church and has a prophetic value for the world today. This synod strongly reaffirms what the Latin Church and some Oriental rites require that is, that the priesthood be conferred only on those men who have received from God the gift of the vocation to celibate chastity (without prejudice to the tradition of some Oriental churches and particular cases of married clergy who convert to Catholicism, which are admitted as exceptions in Pope Paul VI's encyclical on priestly celibacy, no. 42). The synod does not wish to leave any doubts in the mind of anyone regarding the Church's firm will to maintain the law that demands perpetual and freely chosen celibacy for present and future candidates for priestly ordination in the Latin rite"""

Or do u mean the DESCIPLINE of OBLIGATORY clerical celibacy as in the above quote? If it is an obligatory descipline then we are saying the same thing.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 7:46pm On Nov 06, 2015
@ ubenedictus. You are right that the emphasy of 1 timo 3:2 is on monogamy. Appears that ur understanding of scriptures is commendable. So do u agree that obligatory celibacy is unscriptural? Just answer based on scripture not church doctrine.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 8:26pm On Nov 06, 2015
Celibacy is not unscriptural. It is fully scriptural .

Do some bible study.

Remember the discussion between David and The Priests. What did the priests ask David?
Read 1 Samuel 21 : 1 - 4
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 8:53pm On Nov 06, 2015
@joliano
The priest speaking was a married man. His son Abiathar became one of the high priest after. The man he is speaking to David already had wives at this time. The passage is not about celibacy but sexual purity. They are two different things. The question is not even about celibacy being scriptural but OBLIGATORY celibacy.

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 9:58pm On Nov 06, 2015
accountable:
@joliano
The priest speaking was a married man. His son Abiathar became one of the high priest after. The man he is speaking to David already had wives at this time. The passage is not about celibacy but sexual purity. They are two different things. The question is not even about celibacy being scriptural but OBLIGATORY celibacy.

After Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 19 on divorce and remarriage, the
disciples exclaimed, "If such is the case between a man
and his wife, it is better not to marry" (Matt 19:10). This
remark prompted Jesus’ teaching on the value of celibacy "for the sake of the kingdom":
"Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it
is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they
were born so; some, because they were made so by
others; some, because they have renounced marriage for
the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this
ought to accept it" (Matt. 19:11–12).
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 10:01pm On Nov 06, 2015
Even Peter who was married, left the wife to follow Jesus and to function as the Bishop of Rome.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 10:30am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:
Even Peter who was married, left the wife to follow Jesus and to function as the Bishop of Rome.
Do u have scripture to support this Purely catholic tradition?
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Scholar8200(m): 10:34am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:
Even Peter who was married, left the wife to follow Jesus and to function as the Bishop of Rome.
As at the time Paul wrote 1Corinthians (between 53-57 AD) , Peter was still married! And he died around AD 67,68

1 Corinthians 9:5
Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 10:41am On Nov 07, 2015
[
Scholar8200:

As at the time Paul wrote 1Corinthians (between 53-57 AD) , Peter was still married!

Peter was still married because divorce is a sin. Peter ceased to live with her as an husband, in other words, there was no sexual intercourse between them. As Jesus said, Some to whom it has been given, will make themselves celibate for the sake of the Kingdom.

1 Corinthians 9:5
Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord and Cephas


Actually, in the Greek with which it was written. What Paul said was sister not wife. Do your research.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 10:42am On Nov 07, 2015
Peter was still married because divorce is a sin. Peter ceased to live with her as an husband, in other words, there was no sexual intercourse between them. As Jesus said, Some to whom it has been given, will make themselves celibate for the sake of the Kingdom.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Scholar8200(m): 10:44am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:
[


Actually, in the Greek with which it was written. What Paul said was sister not wife. Do your research.
This effort of your mocks that passage!

I did my research though! smiley

5 3361 [e]
5 mē
5 μὴ
5 no
5 Adv
3756 [e]
ouk
οὐκ
not
Adv
2192 [e]
echomen
ἔχομεν
have we
V-PIA-1P
1849 [e]
exousian
ἐξουσίαν
authority
N-AFS
79 [e]
adelphēn
ἀδελφὴν ,
a sister
N-AFS
1135 [e]
gynaika
γυναῖκα ,
a wife

N-AFS
4013 [e]
periagein
περιάγειν ,
to take about
V-PNA
5613 [e]
hōs
ὡς
as
Adv
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
also
Conj
3588 [e]
hoi
οἱ
the
Art-NMP
3062 [e]
loipoi
λοιποὶ
other
Adj-NMP
652 [e]
apostoloi
ἀπόστολοι ,
apostles
N-NMP
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
3588 [e]
hoi
οἱ
the
Art-NMP
80 [e]
adelphoi
ἀδελφοὶ
brothers
N-NMP
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
of the
Art-GMS
2962 [e]
Kyriou
Κυρίου ,
Lord
N-GMS
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
2786 [e]
Kēphas
Κηφᾶς ?
Cephas
N-NMS
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/9-5.htm
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Scholar8200(m): 10:46am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:
Peter was still married because divorce is a sin.
Peter ceased to live with her as an husband, in other
words, there was no sexual intercourse between
them. As Jesus said, Some to whom it has been
given, will make themselves celibate for the sake of
the Kingdom.
But Paul said they led about their wives! Just like some pastors are followed by their wives to events today!
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Nobody: 10:47am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:


After Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 19 on divorce and remarriage, the
disciples exclaimed, "If such is the case between a man
and his wife, it is better not to marry" (Matt 19:10). This
remark prompted Jesus’ teaching on the value of celibacy "for the sake of the kingdom":
"Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it
is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they
were born so; some, because they were made so by
others; some, because they have renounced marriage for
the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this
ought to accept it" (Matt. 19:11–12).

There are few scripture the talk about celibacy. Matthew 19 and 1 Corinth 7. There is non that makes celibacy compulsory for occupying any spiritual office.

1Co 7:1-2 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
In matt 19, Jesus said that some men MADE THEMSELVES eunuch, not that God demanded it because He does not contradict himself:*[[Gen 2:18]]And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 10:50am On Nov 07, 2015
accountable:
Do u have scripture to support this Purely catholic tradition?
“The Church here in Babylon, united with you by God’s election, sends you her greeting, and so does my son, Mark” --1 Pet. 5:13.
Babylon is the code name of Rome. Check the book of Revelations.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 11:06am On Nov 07, 2015
Scholar8200:
This effort of your mocks that passage! I did my research though! smiley 5 3361 [e] 5 mē 5 μὴ 5 no 5 Adv 3756 [e] ouk οὐκ not Adv 2192 [e] echomen ἔχομεν have we V-PIA-1P 1849 [e] exousian ἐξουσίαν authority N-AFS 79 [e] adelphēn ἀδελφὴν , a sister N-AFS 1135 [e] gynaika γυναῖκα , a wife N-AFS 4013 [e] periagein περιάγειν , to take about V-PNA 5613 [e] hōs ὡς as Adv 2532 [e] kai καὶ also Conj 3588 [e] hoi οἱ the Art-NMP 3062 [e] loipoi λοιποὶ other Adj-NMP 652 [e] apostoloi ἀπόστολοι , apostles N-NMP 2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj 3588 [e] hoi οἱ the Art-NMP 80 [e] adelphoi ἀδελφοὶ brothers N-NMP 3588 [e] tou τοῦ of the Art-GMS 2962 [e] Kyriou Κυρίου , Lord N-GMS 2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj 2786 [e] Kēphas Κηφᾶς ? Cephas N-NMS http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/9-5.htm
The Greek is "adelphaen gunaika" not "adelphaen,gunaika".
The first one means SISTER. When you add a comma, you note turn to
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Scholar8200(m): 11:09am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:


The Greek is "adelphaen gunaika" not "adelphaen,gunaika".


The first one means SISTER. When you add a comma, you note turn to
I am sure you have a source for your claims; post it let's see! The one I used has the comma there. and what does gynaika mean? Remember that Songs of Solomon used the same, " my sister, my spouse"?!
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 11:13am On Nov 07, 2015
Scholar8200:

This effort of your mocks that passage!
I did my research though! smiley
5 3361 [e]
5 mē
5 μὴ
5 no
5 Adv
3756 [e]
ouk
οὐκ
not
Adv
2192 [e]
echomen
ἔχομεν
have we
V-PIA-1P
1849 [e]
exousian
ἐξουσίαν
authority
N-AFS
79 [e]
adelphēn
ἀδελφὴν ,
a sister
N-AFS
1135 [e]
gynaika
γυναῖκα ,
a wife

N-AFS
4013 [e]
periagein
περιάγειν ,
to take about
V-PNA
5613 [e]
hōs
ὡς
as
Adv
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
also
Conj
3588 [e]
hoi
οἱ
the
Art-NMP
3062 [e]
loipoi
λοιποὶ
other
Adj-NMP
652 [e]
apostoloi
ἀπόστολοι ,
apostles
N-NMP
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
3588 [e]
hoi
οἱ
the
Art-NMP
80 [e]
adelphoi
ἀδελφοὶ
brothers
N-NMP
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
of the
Art-GMS
2962 [e]
Kyriou
Κυρίου ,
Lord
N-GMS
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
2786 [e]
Kēphas
Κηφᾶς ?
Cephas
N-NMS
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/9-5.htm

The Greek is "adelphaen gunaika" not "adelphaen,gunaika".

The first one means SISTER. When you add a comma, you now turn it to two words "SISTER, WIFE".


Even the grammar shows this, adelphi means sister. So if Paul wanted to write sister separately from wife, why didn't he use adelphi which is a noun, rather than adelphaen which is an adjective.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Scholar8200(m): 11:16am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:


The Greek is "adelphaen gunaika" not "adelphaen,gunaika".

The first one means SISTER. When you add a comma, you now turn it to two words "SISTER, WIFE".


Even the grammar shows this, adelphi means sister. So if Paul wanted to write sister separately from wife, why didn't he use adelphi which is a noun, rather than adelphaen which is an adjective.
In summary the apostles ,Peter included, led about a sister (among the brethren) who was their wife.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 11:26am On Nov 07, 2015
Scholar8200:
In summary the apostles ,Peter included, led about a sister (among the brethren) who was their wife.

No they didn't. They had women who assisted them in their ministry just as Jesus had. The women were not wives.
Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Scholar8200(m): 11:34am On Nov 07, 2015
Jolliano:


No they didn't. They had women who assisted them in their ministry just as Jesus had. The women were not wives.
Now you want to remove gynaika all of a sudden after accepting that it was there!!!

When you edit the scriptures like this you forge a contradiction of the same Scriptures:
As to sisters who help the saints:

Romans 16:6,12
6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us. 9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved. 10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus’ household. 11 Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord. 12 Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord

Wouldnt it be a lie to say they received no help (like you are claiming) while this was written elsewhere by Paul?

The Apostles,Peter included, led about a WIFE.

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Re: If Peter Was The First Pope.......................? by Jolliano: 11:46am On Nov 07, 2015
Actually I'm not removing or forging anything.

Gynaika means wife but mainly woman.
It's simply that makes it refer to wife used in this format ( Jacob's woman = Jacob's wife). Before you argue, read in Greek and English, read Luke 7:44,50, Luke 14:26.

Scholar8200:
Now you want to remove gynaika all of a sudden after accepting that it was there!!!
When you edit the scriptures like this you forge a contradiction of the same Scriptures:
As to sisters who help the saints:
Romans 16:6,12
6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us. 9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved. 10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus’ household. 11 Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord. 12 Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord
Wouldnt it be a lie to say they received no help (like you are claiming) while this was written elsewhere by Paul?
The Apostles,Peter included, led about a WIFE.
Actually I'm not removing or forging anything.

Gynaika means wife but mainly woman.
It's simply that makes it refer to wife used in this format ( Jacob's woman = Jacob's wife). Before you argue, read in Greek and English, read Luke 7:44,50, Luke 14:26.

Read the 1 Corinthians 9 from verse 1, Paul is defending his right to move about with the sisters you have mentioned. He is saying that if others have sisters that accompany and help them, why can't he?

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