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Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? - Religion - Nairaland

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Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 3:50pm On Dec 18, 2015
Reading a book by Max Lucado-No wonder they call Him the Savior, getting to chapter 16 The Hill of regret which talks about the betrayal of Judas and how he eventually hanged himself in regret. This provoked a thought in me that, if Judas had rather come back like the others and asked forgiveness would he had been forgiven?

Now before I say my thoughts on what I think the bible teaches on forgiveness, would love to hear ur views guys.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by ifewunmy(f): 5:51pm On Dec 18, 2015
PastorOluT:
Reading a book by Max Lucado-No wonder they call Him the Savior, getting to chapter 16 The Hill of regret which talks about the betrayal of Judas and how he eventually hanged himself in regret. This provoked a thought in me that, if Judas had rather come back like the others and asked forgiveness would he had been forgiven?

Now before I say my thoughts on what I think the bible teaches on forgiveness, would love to hear ur views guys.
He would Av been forgiven. Peter also denied Christ,but traced back his steps

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 6:12pm On Dec 18, 2015
ifewunmy:
He would Av been forgiven. Peter also denied Christ,but traced back his steps

Hmm, ok as the scriptures makes us realize no sins is too big for God to forgive. But consider this scripture to ur answer, 'the Son of man goes as it is written, but woe unto him that betray Him for it would have been better if he was never born'( loose translation)
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by vooks: 7:01pm On Dec 18, 2015
PastorOluT:


Hmm, ok as the scriptures makes us realize no sins is too big for God to forgive. But consider this scripture to ur answer, 'the Son of man goes as it is written, but woe unto him that betray Him for it would have been better if he was never born'( loose translation)
That is no different from saying the wicked and the rebellious will end up in the lake of fire. None of that nullifies the fact that IF they repented, they would not end up there

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by analice107: 7:57pm On Dec 18, 2015
if we were to analyze the sin Judas committed and the one Peter committed, they are basically the same. its all denying and rejecting the Christ.
This is my thought. Judas was disillusioned that all his hopes in becoming someone important in the Judaist political sector.was dashed, because, the man whom He strongly believed will make that happen is here talking abt being tortured and killed by ordinary men. this man is fake, he must have thought. So he helped him out of the way quickly.

Peter, heard the master call him Satan. Peter witness this mighty man, who had the guts to call King Herod a fox, being led away by mere men. he watched from afar, how people spat at him, how He just stood there and looked while men did all manner of things to Him. Wait! if this man can stand there doing nothing while this people did this to him, what will he do to save me? he must have thought. the, I think I shd save my neck before its too late. Peter must have reasoned. so he denied Christ.
But peter repents, and returns and asks for forgiveness, but Judas felt his sins were beyond pardon, he hanged himself.

But. I personally have a little challenge with the comparison.
The case of Judas it was prophesied. And what will ensue was already stated.
The case of Peter, it wasnt, and Christ prayed for Peter to overcome.

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by orisa37: 12:08pm On Dec 19, 2015
Yes. He was remorseful but didn't repent. All he needed was to go back to his friends, Peter, James, John etc, explain what he did wrong, ask for their understanding and comradeship back, and endure praying with them till the Pentecost, he would have received the Comforter and not commit suicide, another hellish sin, the way he did. Judas was to Jesus, as the Snake was to Adam and as Satan was to Job. It's all in the record of the son of man. But God is our Instructor, our Director and our Discernment.

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by Oluwason(m): 8:03am On Dec 20, 2015
PastorOluT:
Reading a book by Max Lucado-No wonder they call Him the Savior, getting to chapter 16 The Hill of regret which talks about the betrayal of Judas and how he eventually hanged himself in regret. This provoked a thought in me that, if Judas had rather come back like the others and asked forgiveness would he had been forgiven?

Now before I say my thoughts on what I think the bible teaches on forgiveness, would love to hear ur views guys.

Yes I believe he will be forgiven, but the fact is Judas dont have capacity for repentance which precedes forgiveness.

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 11:12am On Dec 20, 2015
vooks:

That is no different from saying the wicked and the rebellious will end up in the lake of fire. None of that nullifies the fact that IF they repented, they would not end up there

Hmm, if u r sincere enough with urself, according to the scripture will all end up in Hell?
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by vooks: 11:27am On Dec 20, 2015
PastorOluT:


Hmm, if u r sincere enough with urself, according to the scripture will all end up in Hell?
No they won't. How is this relevant?

You are mixing hypothesis with facts. It is a fact Judas rebelled and thus perished, you are hypothesizing his repentance. This can't be mixed with the fact of his perishing
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by judedwriter(m): 1:23pm On Dec 20, 2015
Judas' heart was hard like concrete-there was no room for repentance. This is why the bible warns us of an evil-unbelieving heart.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 3:18pm On Dec 20, 2015
vooks:

No they won't. How is this relevant?

You are mixing hypothesis with facts. It is a fact Judas rebelled and thus perished, you are hypothesizing his repentance. This can't be mixed with the fact of his perishing

It is very relavant cos once we can proof that he will be forgiven, then it will show the
extent God can go in forgiving n the power of forgiveness.

NB It doesnt change the fate of Judas but it sure affect our perception of God

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by vooks: 3:28pm On Dec 20, 2015
PastorOluT:


It is very relavant cos once we can proof that he will be forgiven, then it will show the
exrent God can go in forgiving n the power of forgiveness.

NB It doesnt change the fate of Judas but it sure affect our perception of God
As I said, you are busy, too busy confusing facts with conjecture.
In your imagination, Judas repents. Why would he not be forgiven? Because God had said he would perish, right? But God can't say he will perish if he is going to repent.

In short you are inventing a contradiction, one where Judas repents but God won't forgive him because it is written he will perish.

#KeepDreaming
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 3:43pm On Dec 20, 2015
vooks:

As I said, you are busy, too busy confusing facts with conjecture.
In your imagination, Judas repents. Why would he not be forgiven? Because God had said he would perish, right? But God can't say he will perish if he is going to repent.

In short you are inventing a contradiction, one where Judas repents but God won't forgive him because it is written he will perish.

#KeepDreaming

Smile, u are obviosly only out for arguement not reason. U have a complicated mind making mountain out a mole hill.

NB Note I have not taken a stand on the question but giving room for all to delibrate. Take a chill pill n see life from a simple perception may be ur life will be less complicated?

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by anukulapo: 8:24pm On Dec 20, 2015
The scapegoat can't find its way back.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 9:17pm On Dec 20, 2015
anukulapo:
The scapegoat can't find its way back.

Hmm, what determines the scapegoat, and was it a must that it will be Judas?
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by anukulapo: 9:54pm On Dec 20, 2015
PastorOluT:


Hmm, what determines the scapegoat...?
Truth is, I don't really know. IMO however,I'll say peter and judas are the two extremes if the disciples are to be numbered 1...12.

I've always been of the opinion that our strength and weaknesses are linked.

My opinion of their strength is that Peter has self confidence and he is outspoken (and he's also a risk taker) WHILE Judas is a financial expert hence his being the treasurer.

Peter's self confidence was what made him boast that though others betray Jesus,he will not...but soon enough his weakness surfaced as his strength was tested.

Judas' strength is tied to a much bigger obstacle. That which men will worship without knowing. MONEY. (ye cannot serve God and money at the same time).

The money ruled over him. He was deceived as he didn't know how far it can lead him (as we can see that he also repented. He returned the money BUT couldn't believe how far he had been dragged into the mess so he gave up)


PastorOluT:

... and was it a must that it will be Judas?
Well,I think he was the most suitable (and available person) for the position.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by Chizzled06(m): 10:07pm On Dec 20, 2015
Judas is a vilified hero of Christian mythology.

Without Judas, there's no arrest, no crucifixion, no resurrection and no Christianity.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 6:46am On Dec 21, 2015
anukulapo:

Truth is, I don't really know. IMO however,I'll say peter and judas are the two extremes if the disciples are to be numbered 1...12.

I've always been of the opinion that our strength and weaknesses are linked.

My opinion of their strength is that Peter has self confidence and he is outspoken (and he's also a risk taker) WHILE Judas is a financial expert hence his being the treasurer.

Peter's self confidence was what made him boast that though others betray Jesus,he will not...but soon enough his weakness surfaced as his strength was tested.

Judas' strength is tied to a much bigger obstacle. That which men will worship without knowing. MONEY. (ye cannot serve God and money at the same time).

The money ruled over him. He was deceived as he didn't know how far it can lead him (as we can see that he also repented. He returned the money BUT couldn't believe how far he had been dragged into the mess so he gave up)



Well,I think he was the most suitable (and available person) for the position.

I quite agree with ur summation, bt that Judas repented I dont. He was just being remorseful of his action when one is bound to when he is caught, which do not mean one wont continue if not caught. This is just like the case of an armrobber who when caught would regret his actions bt wouldnt hesitate when another opportunities to rob comes again.

And for him being d most suitable among d 12 to betray d Lord, I agree bt it shouldnt had been him for tho one would be d culprit bt it could be anyone. Judas has every opportunities every other person had, so it wasnt a must for him.

Now d prophecy only reveal d person of Judas not that it compel or made it mandatory for him to betray d master. Him betraying d master was as a result of his person or xter as u rightly pointed out in ur previous post.

Stay blessed bro n compliment of d season

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Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 6:50am On Dec 21, 2015
Chizzled06:
Judas is a vilified hero of Christian mythology.

Without Judas, there's no arrest, no crucifixion, no resurrection and no Christianity.

Sorry bro, its not a must that it should be him. He was just not with Jesus from d beginning, tho he try to blend in, talk, walk n act like the rest.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by vooks: 10:20am On Dec 21, 2015
PastorOluT:


Smile, u are obviosly only out for arguement not reason. U have a complicated mind making mountain out a mole hill.

NB Note I have not taken a stand on the question but giving room for all to delibrate. Take a chill pill n see life from a simple perception may be ur life will be less complicated?

This is your error; hypothesizing.
In your own imagination, Judas has repented. My question is, in that same imagination, has God condemned him to perdition or not?
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by anukulapo: 11:08am On Dec 21, 2015
PastorOluT:


I quite agree with ur summation, bt that Judas repented I dont. He was just being remorseful of his action when one is bound to when he is caught...

I quite agree with you on the "remorse" as against repentance. Here's a commentary by John Macarthur

Judas’s remorse was not repentance of sin, as
the King James version suggests. Matthew did not
use metanoeo, which means a genuine change of
mind and will, but metamelomai, which merely
connotes regret or sorrow. He did not experience
spiritual penitence but only emotional remorse.
Although he would not repent of his sin, he could
not escape the reality of his guilt. Genuine sorrow
for sin (metamelomai) can be prompted by God
in order to produce repentance (metanoeo), as
Paul declares in 2 Corinthians 7:10. But Judas’s
remorse was not prompted by God to lead to
repentance but only to guilt and despair.

Only that in this case also,one must note that the repentance can only be aided by God for no man can come to the father except he (God) draws him to himself. This does not necessarily suggest that God is chasing such away (in deed) but that you can't reach him unless draws you (in deed) to himself.

Take Pharaoh for example. If it was not expressly written that God hardened his heart (after Pharaoh's own evil nature and intent) and somehow someone suggested it, we "might" not accept it because that will make God appear somehow.


PastorOluT:


And for him being d most suitable among d 12 to betray d Lord, I agree bt it shouldnt had been him for tho one would be d culprit bt it could be anyone. Judas has every opportunities every other person had, so it wasnt a must for him.

Now d prophecy only reveal d person of Judas not that it compel or made it mandatory for him to betray d master...

Well,if you ask me,it would have been him. If there is any of the animals that would return to the vomit,it would be the dog. So,if there's a dog among the animals,it doesn't have to be compelled,it will play its role.

PastorOluT:


Stay blessed bro n compliment of d season

Grace to you in Jesus name. Amen.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by dorox(m): 12:02pm On Dec 21, 2015
Judas sin is a classic example of sinning agains the holy spirit, there is no forgiveness for it. Why not? You might wonder. To answer that we must first understand why we sin and why God has made provisions for our sin to be forgiven.
The simple reason why we sin is because of our imperfection which we inherited from Adam. Hence no matter how hard we try to be righteous, we will always remain short of God's righteous standard. That is why Paul in Romans 7:21 said that although he tries to do good, evil is present within him. It is as if there is another law operating within us that pushes us to sin even as we delight in doing what is good.
So we sin not because we want to, but because of the law of the flesh that is within us as a result of our imperfect human condition which makes us susceptible to sin. And God is ready to forgive such sins on the basis of the ransome sacrifice of Jesus if we repent and ask for forgiveness.
Judas sin was not as a result of the weakness of the flesh, it was deliberate and willful just like satan's rebellion against God. On the other hand Peters denial of christ was as a result of human weakness.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by sonmvayina(m): 12:34am On Dec 22, 2015
dorox:
Judas sin is a classic example of sinning agains the holy spirit, there is no forgiveness for it. Why not? You might wonder. To answer that we must first understand why we sin and why God has made provisions for our sin to be forgiven.
The simple reason why we sin is because of our imperfection which we inherited from Adam. Hence no matter how hard we try to be righteous, we will always remain short of God's righteous standard. That is why Paul in Romans 7:21 said that although he tries to do good, evil is present within him. It is as if there is another law operating within us that pushes us to sin even as we delight in doing what is good.
So we sin not because we want to, but because of the law of the flesh that is within us as a result of our imperfect human condition which makes us susceptible to sin. And God is ready to forgive such sins on the basis of the ransome sacrifice of Jesus if we repent and ask for forgiveness.
Judas sin was not as a result of the weakness of the flesh, it was deliberate and willful just like satan's rebellion against God. On the other hand Peters denial of christ was as a result of human weakness.

what is sin?
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by vooks: 7:31am On Dec 22, 2015
sonmvayina:


what is sin?

1 John 3:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by dorox(m): 8:35am On Dec 22, 2015
sonmvayina:


what is sin?
Sin as vooks said is to go against God's law.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 11:08am On Dec 22, 2015
anukulapo:

I quite agree with you on the "remorse" as against repentance. Here's a commentary by John Macarthur

Judas’s remorse was not repentance of sin, as
the King James version suggests. Matthew did not
use metanoeo, which means a genuine change of
mind and will, but metamelomai, which merely
connotes regret or sorrow. He did not experience
spiritual penitence but only emotional remorse.
Although he would not repent of his sin, he could
not escape the reality of his guilt. Genuine sorrow
for sin (metamelomai) can be prompted by God
in order to produce repentance (metanoeo), as
Paul declares in 2 Corinthians 7:10. But Judas’s
remorse was not prompted by God to lead to
repentance but only to guilt and despair.

Only that in this case also,one must note that the repentance can only be aided by God for no man can come to the father except he (God) draws him to himself. This does not necessarily suggest that God is chasing such away (in deed) but that you can't reach him unless draws you (in deed) to himself.

Take Pharaoh for example. If it was not expressly written that God hardened his heart (after Pharaoh's own evil nature and intent) and somehow someone suggested it, we "might" not accept it because that will make God appear somehow.




Well,if you ask me,it would have been him. If there is any of the animals that would return to the vomit,it would be the dog. So,if there's a dog among the animals,it doesn't have to be compelled,it will play its role.



Grace to you in Jesus name. Amen.

Agreed, going by ur example, Judas was a dog amidst d 12 which was why he was the one to betray the master. If we go by that then it would be assumed Judas has no choice right from the onset?

Is that what u mean when u said it must be Judas?
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 11:10am On Dec 22, 2015
dorox:
Judas sin is a classic example of sinning agains the holy spirit, there is no forgiveness for it. Why not? You might wonder. To answer that we must first understand why we sin and why God has made provisions for our sin to be forgiven.
The simple reason why we sin is because of our imperfection which we inherited from Adam. Hence no matter how hard we try to be righteous, we will always remain short of God's righteous standard. That is why Paul in Romans 7:21 said that although he tries to do good, evil is present within him. It is as if there is another law operating within us that pushes us to sin even as we delight in doing what is good.
So we sin not because we want to, but because of the law of the flesh that is within us as a result of our imperfect human condition which makes us susceptible to sin. And God is ready to forgive such sins on the basis of the ransome sacrifice of Jesus if we repent and ask for forgiveness.
Judas sin was not as a result of the weakness of the flesh, it was deliberate and willful just like satan's rebellion against God. On the other hand Peters denial of christ was as a result of human weakness.

Pls what do u mean Judas sin is not as a result of the weakness of the flesh?
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by PastorOluT(m): 11:10am On Dec 22, 2015
vooks:


1 John 3:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by sonmvayina(m): 11:36am On Dec 22, 2015
vooks:


1 John 3:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

whose law?..who makes these laws? And how do we know it is from that person..
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by anukulapo: 11:43am On Dec 22, 2015
PastorOluT:


Agreed, going by ur example, Judas was a dog amidst d 12 which was why he was the one to betray the master. If we go by that then it would be assumed Judas has no choice right from the onset?

Is that what u mean when u said it must be Judas?
Yes,he doesn't. His nature chose him.

If someone was needed to deny Jesus, Peter won't have had a choice. His mouth was available. More like the parrot among birds.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by dorox(m): 1:54pm On Dec 22, 2015
PastorOluT:


Pls what do u mean Judas sin is not as a result of the weakness of the flesh?
How about this example. Imagine this man while carrying doing his job as an airline security employee charged with the duty of bagage inspection, someone offered him a small bribe to allow to him carry a quantity of palm oil that is more than the amount of liquids he is allowed on the flight. Now his better judgement was to decline, but on remembering that his daughter is in desperate need for an operation that he doesn't have the money for, he rationalised that it is just food, there surely can't be any harm done if he allowed the passanger to have his bottle of palmoil, moreover he has pressing needs for the money. Then it was announced after a few hours that the plane blew up half way through its journey. And it was subsequently established that the bomb that brought the plane down was smuggled unto the plane disguised as a bottle of palm oil.
Obviously the security man will feel devastated with guilt that his apparently innocuous lapse of judgement has cost hundreds of lives.
For such a man in the sight of God, I believe there exist a pathway for his savation if he is repentant, remorseful,and reports himself and his actions to the authorities.
Now contrast this tale with another where the security guard knowingly allowed a bomb to be smuggled into a plane after he was offered the kind of money he had always dreamt of having to live a good life.
I believe that a person like that have no path to salvation even if he later comes to regret his action or feel remorseful after seeing hundreds of bodies from the accident on tv.
My point is that Jesus came for the unrighteous humans who by nature will always fall short of God's standard. He did not come to save the wicked pharisee-like people whom he called serpents, broods of vipers. He pronounced woe on them instead of calling for their repentance. Read Matthew chapter 23.
Re: Would Judas Had Been Forgiven If He Asked Forgiveness? by dorox(m): 2:53pm On Dec 22, 2015
ifewunmy:
He would Av been forgiven. Peter also denied Christ,but traced back his steps
Peter in refusing to imperil himself by admitting that he is an associate of Jesus who was already in a perilious state is quite different from Judas who knowingly put him in peril for a few pieces of silver.

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