When Olodumare created humans as reflections of itself, moral beings who can differentiate good from evil, masters of the universe, higher and different from other living beings because we are moral beings, Olodumare also instituted Esu for the purpose of keeping us on the narrow path of rationality. Esu is a servant of Olodumare, not Satan who is depicted by Abrahamic religions as an opponent of God, working against God. In all original human culture, no deity works against God, just like there is no institution set up in an Earthly Kingdom or empire for the sole purpose of undermining that empire or kingdom. Other deities may have aspects applicable to lower animals. Ogun is courage and innovation, Osun is fertility, Oya is dissent or division. Animals exhibit all these traits too but Esu has nothing to do with animals, only human beings. This may be why Esu is regarded as the most important orisa by many. Esu is from Ilare quarters in ancient Ife. Esu is the force of balance but I prefer to call it the orisa of contemplation which is why its abode is in junctions and its sacrifice is placed at junctions symbolically. We are always at junctions, we are always contemplating and there Esu is always waiting for us to test our integrity. This is why Esu is a messenger of Olodumare.

Other beings, like animals who do not know good from bad, right from wrong are not patronised by Esu. People who are not perfect will be taught hard lessons continually by Esu, however Esu is a guide to the upright, rational person operating with iwa pele or gentle character. Esu's image is always carved at the edge of all Ifa divination tray as the connection between our world and the other world.

Anybody keeping you on the right path, challenging your integrity, challenging your morality, like an opposition party to a ruling party and etc is Eshu incarnate to you, you must sacrifice to Esu or pay the consequences!

If any orisa has been most mauled and abused by renegade Abrahamic religionists, that is Esu who is depicted by them as Satan, the opponent of God. It is like depicting a favourite child as an outcast. A very unfortunate development. Olodumare has no opponent and Laaroye (Iba o!) Is his messenger.

ORIKI ESU

Laaroye!
Adijale takete
Baba orita!
A fi bi dire A fi re dibi
Ma se mi o.
Ma so beeni mi di beeko
Ma so beeko mi di beeni
Ojowu Okunrin
Laaroye Ogiri oko
Elekun nsunkun, Laaroye nsun eje
Onimi nsu mi, Laaroye nsu ifun.

A rin lanja lanja laalu
A jo lanja lanja laalu
Ode ibi ija de mole
Ija ni otaru ba dele Ife
Ti o fi de omo won
Oro Esu to to to akoni
A o fi ida re lale
Esu ma se mi o
Omo elomiran ni ko se
Pa ado asubi da
Na ado asure s i wa
Iba o Baba!
Ase Edumare!
Edumare Ase!

TRANSLATION

PANEGYRICS OF ESU

Laaroye!
He instigates a fight and stands by to watch.
The old man at the junction.
He blocks evil with good and good with evil.
Do not manipulate me!
Do not turn my Yes to No
Do not turn my No to Yes
The jealous man.
Laaroye, hard like a rock!
The bereaved is weeping tears while Laaroye weeps blood
While one passes excreta, Laaroye passes intestines!
He walks with a graceful gait
He dances with a graceful gait
He knows and regulates the stage of a conflict.
Otaru arrived Ife in the midst of a fight
He bound their children
Esu's matter should be approached with caution. It is hard.
We will scare people away by brandishing his sword
Esu do not manipulate me
Go and manipulate other people
Go and manipulate my enemies
Reverse the evil talisman
Point the good talisman to us
Iba o Baba!
Ase Edumare
Edumare Ase.

May Olodumare assist us. Ase.

Infact I love you.
Where on NL have you been hiding all this years ?

lawani:


Other beings, like animals who do not know good from bad, right from wrong are not patronised by Esu.

Are you sure that animals do not know good from bad? When my dog stole a piece of meat and I caught it in the act, I could swear that that was a guilty look on it's face.

I've also seen monkeys look guilty and even ashamed.

PastorAIO:


Are you sure that animals do not know good from bad? When my dog stole a piece of meat and I caught it in the act, I could swear that that was a guilty look on it's face.

I've also seen monkeys look guilty and even ashamed.

It can hardly be denied that apart from language, the power we have that makes us different from lower animals is that of contemplation which makes us moral beings. That is the aspect of Eshu. It may not be totally absent in animals but it is largely absent while it dominates in humans. Animals are ruled more by instinct while humans contemplate at junctions where Laaroye (Iba o!) Waits.

God Almighty is Olorun Olodumare. Satan, Devil on earth, also refered to as Esu in Yoruba culture is the Director of Engineering Services and Quality controller for God. The very recognisable samples of his duties we see in the Book of Job, in the Gospels and in the many references to humans in the Bible. In all original human culture, no deity works against God. The Spirit of Goodness of God is the "Orisa" for development, improvement, enlargement, innovation etc and "Ogun" is a surbodinate spirit in that department. Life is a Holy Spirit for actions, interactions and movements. "Osun" is a surbodinate spirit(Orisa) responsible for fertility in the department of Life. The Faith is the Spirit of Religion and belief. "Oya" the "Orisa" of dissent or division is in the department of The Faith. Satan is the Director of Engineering Services and Quality Control for God. Devil(Esu) is a Manager as you said in that department.

Anybody keeping you on the right path, challenging your integrity, challenging your morality, is satan to the Job in you and Judas to the Jesus in you. Worship God(Olodumare) with all your Heart, your Soul, your Mind and all your Strength. This is the universal message of all Religion. That's all you need.

orisa37:
God Almighty is Olorun Olodumare. Satan, Devil on earth, also refered to as Esu in Yoruba culture is the Director of Engineering Services and Quality controller for God. The very recognisable samples of his duties we see in the Book of Job, in the Gospels and in the many references to humans in the Bible. In all original human culture, no deity works against God. The Spirit of Goodness of God is the "Orisa" for development, improvement, enlargement, innovation etc and "Ogun" is a surbodinate spirit in that department. Life is a Holy Spirit for actions, interactions and movements. "Osun" is a surbodinate spirit(Orisa) responsible for fertility in the department of Life. The Faith is the Spirit of Religion and belief. "Oya" the "Orisa" of dissent or division is in the department of The Faith. Satan is the Director of Engineering Services and Quality Control for God. Devil(Esu) is a Manager as you said in that department.

Anybody keeping you on the right path, challenging your integrity, challenging your morality, is satan to the Job in you and Judas to the Jesus in you. Worship God(Olodumare) with all your Heart, your Soul, your Mind and all your Strength. This is the universal message of all Religion. That's all you need.

While Satan depicted in the book of Job approximates Esu, it does not fit the general Satan in Abrahamic religions as an opponent of God. The description in the book of Job is different and that one is like Esu.

If you say God must be worshipped, how do you suggest that should be done? That is the beginning of the psychopathy that has infected Christianity and Islam. You worship God only by being nice to your neighbours and treating them well, being grateful for your life. You deify something to use it for selfish ends. That is my view

I say this is nonsense, and it has no basis.

How do you know that animals are ruled by instinct but men aren't. There have been lots of experiments done where animals have shown the capacity to solve problems.
What do you mean by morality? I understand morality as a system of preferences that guides our behaviour when faced with choices. you seem to have a different understanding of the word. Please how do you understand morality?

lawani:


It can hardly be denied that apart from language, the power we have that makes us different from lower animals is that of contemplation which makes us moral beings. That is the aspect of Eshu. It may not be totally absent in animals but it is largely absent while it dominates in humans. Animals are ruled more by instinct while humans contemplate at junctions where Laaroye (Iba o!) Waits.

PastorAIO:
I say this is nonsense, and it has no basis.

How do you know that animals are ruled by instinct but men aren't. There have been lots of experiments done where animals have shown the capacity to solve problems.
What do you mean by morality? I understand morality as a system of preferences that guides our behaviour when faced with choices. you seem to have a different understanding of the word. Please how do you understand morality?

Instincts are more basic than emotions. Only humans do evil, only humans cheat. Very complex behaviours are peculiar only to humans. Eshu rules this realm that involves contemplation and complex decision making. Those are junctions. They may occur in animals but it is obviously to a much lesser extent.

lawani:


Instincts are more basic than emotions. Only humans do evil, only humans cheat. Very complex behaviours are peculiar only to humans. Eshu rules this realm that involves contemplation and complex decision making. Those are junctions. They may occur in animals but it is obviously to a much lesser extent.

I asked 'How' you know. You've only responded with more assertions.

furthermore, you contradict yourself. first you say ' only humans' do this that and the other, and then you say that they 'may occur in animals but to a lesser extent'. So what is it, Do they do, or do they don't?

PastorAIO:


I asked 'How' you know. You've only responded with more assertions.

furthermore, you contradict yourself. first you say ' only humans' do this that and the other, and then you say that they 'may occur in animals but to a lesser extent'. So what is it, Do they do, or do they don't?

For me, I believe no Eshu for animals or even children but if you say there is, then it may be to a lesser extent. Eshu is only for people that have reached an age of accountability.

lawani:


For me, I believe no Eshu for animals or even children but if you say there is, then it may be to a lesser extent. Eshu is only for people that have reached an age of accountability.

So it is just something that you believe for yourself, it's not that you have any objective evidence to demonstrate it.

PastorAIO:



So it is just something that you believe for yourself, it's not that you have any objective evidence to demonstrate it.

That animals and little children don't do evil seem apparent but if you have any evidence to the contrary, clear observable evidence, that would be scientific journal material.

lawani:


That animals and little children don't do evil seem apparent but if you have any evidence to the contrary, clear observable evidence, that would be scientific journal material.

First we would have to define Evil. Many people have various definitions of what is Evil.

Are we talking about killing another creature (whether of the same species or another species)? If Killing is evil then at least half the animals on this planet, not to mention virus and bacteria etc, are very very evil.

If you say that they only kill for food, or for survival, I can happily refer you to a neighbours cat which kills for the sheer fun of it. She doesn't go straight for the kill but first she will first torture the poor mice before finally concluding her game.

Is stealing evil? What about the animals that steal the prey that other animals have worked hard to kill?


And as for Children, surely you are not serious. Were you not a child once? Weren't you at nursery school? Don't you see children at play everyday?
If for any reason you don't understand what I mean then let me refer you to a book called Lord Of The Flies.

Clear, carefully planned, premeditated and deliberate wrong is evil to humans. It is the extreme of an adult treating others the way they will not like to be treated. Examples are cannibalism, using humans for rituals, preying on those who trust you, posing as a clergy man when you are infact a human ritualist, lying to those who trust you. Then there are wrongs, which are less extreme forms of treating others the way you will not like to be treated. Examples are stealing, lying and etc.

Animals and children do most things they do based on base instincts. They are not bound by morals or empathy. They don't do contemplating, they go and do whatever they want to do just like that. Eshu is to do with contemplating. A kindergarten kid does not contemplate before taking actions. Adult animals have empathy for their kind inbuilt in them, so most animals are not cannibals because of that.

Whether animals kill for fun or for food, it is always based on instinct and not for any other ulterior motive. Jackals do pick a lion to gang up up on, drive it away from its kill or even kill it, but not before a few of them have been torn apart by the lion, but all based on natural instinct, not on hatred or for rituals. Only adult humans do that.

When you can control your base instinct, that's when you have Eshu as your ally, that is when you become a full human. Animals and children are not under any such constraint.

When you get into trouble while trying to outsmart others, while trying to take advantage of others, after discarding expert advise, Eshu will laugh you to scorn.

Please what do you think of this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPznMbNcfO8

PastorAIO:
Please what do you think of this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPznMbNcfO8

Most animals defend territory. They have territorial instinct. It is still a base instinct. Lions and etc behave in such a manner as well. Being unable to speak and articulate themselves is a big hamper but adult animals behave in a bit more complex manner than human toddlers. I don't think this video serves to prove chimpanzees are humans and can take human decisions. Once they can do that, they are on their way to becoming PhDs and eventually Nobel laureattes.

lawani:

Most animals defend territory. They have territorial instinct. It is still a base instinct. Lions and etc behave in such a manner as well. Being unable to speak and articulate themselves is a big hamper but adult animals behave in a bit more complex manner than human toddlers. I don't think this video serves to prove chimpanzees are humans and can take human decisions. Once they can do that, they are on their way to becoming PhDs and eventually Nobel laureattes.

Menh, I never said chimpanzees were humans. I don't know where you got that from. Please watch the video again.

There was nothing territorial about the video. please watch it again.

They attacked a member of their own group, and killed him. It was premeditated. It was deliberate.

Human beings are territorial too. That's why we have countries. That doesn't mean that humans must be devoid of reasoning, 'well thought out deliberate' actions when carving out their territories.

Humans are territorial. Chimpanzees are territorial.
Human fulfil their territorial instincts in a premeditated manner. Chimpanzees fulfil their territorial instincts in a premeditated manner.

You seem to be afraid of Chimpanzees having PhDs and nobel laureates. I wonder why. Anyway luckily that has nothing to do with our discussion.

the behaviour of human infants is not complex probably because they are too weak physically to exhibit complex behaviour, but that doesn't mean that their thought processes aren't complex and sophisticated.

PastorAIO:


Menh, I never said chimpanzees were humans. I don't know where you got that from. Please watch the video again.

There was nothing territorial about the video. please watch it again.

They attacked a member of their own group, and killed him. It was premeditated. It was deliberate.

Human beings are territorial too. That's why we have countries. That doesn't mean that humans must be devoid of reasoning, 'well thought out deliberate' actions when carving out their territories.

Humans are territorial. Chimpanzees are territorial.
Human fulfil their territorial instincts in a premeditated manner. Chimpanzees fulfil their territorial instincts in a premeditated manner.

You seem to be afraid of Chimpanzees having PhDs and nobel laureates. I wonder why. Anyway luckily that has nothing to do with our discussion.

the behaviour of human infants is not complex probably because they are too weak physically to exhibit complex behaviour, but that doesn't mean that their thought processes aren't complex and sophisticated.

Let me re clarify my position my position then since you agree chimpanzees are not humans. I will say humans are humans because they engage in complex decision making and it is Eshu that facilitates this. It is the orisa sitting at the crossroads or junction of complex decisions. Is that better?

I am not afraid of Chimpanzees becoming PhDs and Nobel laureattes, I would be happy if they could measure up, it would make them human. I was merely stating what hampers them from achieving such feats

lawani:

Animals and children do most things they do based on base instincts. They are not bound by morals or empathy. They don't do contemplating, they go and do whatever they want to do just like that. Eshu is to do with contemplating. A kindergarten kid does not contemplate before taking actions. Adult animals have empathy for their kind inbuilt in them, so most animals are not cannibals because of that.

You talk as if you are an animal, or you have been an animal before and so you are very familiar with whether or not they contemplate.

As for me, I see animals do premeditated stuff all the time. It has even been demonstrated scientifically.

I would say that humans are humans because of a certain 23 pairs of chromosomes.

Subsequently Chimpanzees attaining PhD will not become humans. They will just be very academic chimpanzees.

lawani:

Let me re clarify my position my position then since you agree chimpanzees are not humans. I will say humans are humans because they engage in complex decision making and it is Eshu that facilitates this. It is the orisa sitting at the crossroads or junction of complex decisions. Is that better?

I am not afraid of Chimpanzees becoming PhDs and Nobel laureattes, I would be happy if they could measure up, it would make them human. I was merely stating what hampers them from achieving such feats

lawani:

Let me re clarify my position my position then since you agree chimpanzees are not humans. I will say humans are humans because they engage in complex decision making and it is Eshu that facilitates this. It is the orisa sitting at the crossroads or junction of complex decisions. Is that better?

I am not afraid of Chimpanzees becoming PhDs and Nobel laureattes, I would be happy if they could measure up, it would make them human. I was merely stating what hampers them from achieving such feats

Are you sure the crossroads just signifies complex decisions? Somepeople say it represents the interface between the physical world and the spiritual world.

Any being that can use language and is capable of taking complex decisions would be regarded as human by scientists even if it is a different specie entirely from us, so a chimpanzee like that would be regarded as human.

Eshu obviously rules contemplations in Yoruba theology.

lawani:
Any being that can use language and is capable of taking complex decisions would be regarded as human by scientists even if it is a different specie entirely from us, so a chimpanzee like that would be regarded as human.

Eshu obviously rules contemplations in Yoruba theology.

This your style of just landing assertions gbolaa!!!! just like that is a real wa. So an entirely different species can also be human according to scientists. Which scientist exactly? Can you quote anyone?


It's not so obvious to me that eshu rules contemplation. I would first think of Obatala before any other orisha if someone asked me about contemplation and yoruba orisa.

PastorAIO:


This your style of just landing assertions gbolaa!!!! just like that is a real wa. So an entirely different species can also be human according to scientists. Which scientist exactly? Can you quote anyone?


It's not so obvious to me that eshu rules contemplation. I would first think of Obatala before any other orisha if someone asked me about contemplation and yoruba orisa.

The word may not be human but person. Any being with those attributes is a person. You may research non human persons. Regardless of whether we are thesame specie, a being that can make complex decisions is a person even if not Homo Sapiens.

Obatala is not the orisa of contemplation represented by junctions. That is Esu. Obatala represents government at its best. Obatala is a benevolent ruler.
Oba patapata lode Iranje
Anire niwa aniwa nire
A fun nini gba fun aini
O so enikan di igba eni
Iba o

That is government or a perfect ruler.
You might also say wisdom. Obatala encompasses everything. Obatala is also like a vegetarian and etc.
Esu is the one at the junction of contemplations. At the point you are choosing to do either good or evil is where Esu waits.

Musiwa and Gatiano everywhere I face.

I know tpia is 9jacrip girlfriend but never knew pastoraio got interest in fellow man. . . That man is lawani.

Lawani speaks some truth but he is always confusing. I dont usually know which direction he is coming from.

lawani:

The word may not be human but person. Any being with those attributes is a person. You may research non human persons. Regardless of whether we are thesame specie, a being that can make complex decisions is a person even if not Homo Sapiens.

But doesn't this destroy your case? I looked up non human person and this is what I found:

A number of non-human animals, including the great apes, cetaceans (i.e. dolphins and whales), elephants, and parrots, exhibit characteristics and tendencies consistent with that of a person's traits like self-awareness, intentionality, creativity, symbolic communication, and many others.
-http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/RNHP

So we have it confirmed that certain animals like apes, dolphins and elephants etc can be self aware AND have intentionality. In other words they just don't act instinctively like you claim. If they can therefore make deliberations then that makes a nonsense of your claim that Esu only deals with humans cos humans alone make deliberations.
Further more it does not tally with the yoruba way of thinking in which we communicate and engage with various animals and even plants as if they were autonomous conscious beings. We seek to persuade them and negotiate with them. Often yorubas will leave an ebo at the foot of Iroko tree and ask him to help them appease this sisters the Iyami.

FOLYKAZE:
Musiwa and Gatiano everywhere I face.

I know tpia is 9jacrip girlfriend but never knew pastoraio got interest in fellow man. . . That man is lawani.

Lawani speaks some truth but he is always confusing. I dont usually know which direction he is coming from.

Pls call me out anywhere you think I am wrong. We are all learning.

PastorAIO:



You talk as if you are an animal, or you have been an animal before and so you are very familiar with whether or not they contemplate.

As for me, I see animals do premeditated stuff all the time. It has even been demonstrated scientifically.

GOD

PastorAIO:


This your style of just landing assertions gbolaa!!!! just like that is a real wa. So an entirely different species can also be human according to scientists. Which scientist exactly? Can you quote anyone?


It's not so obvious to me that eshu rules contemplation. I would first think of Obatala before any other orisha if someone asked me about contemplation and yoruba orisa.

I'm done.

FOLYKAZE:
Musiwa and Gatiano everywhere I face.

I know tpia is 9jacrip girlfriend but never knew pastoraio got interest in fellow man. . . That man is lawani.

Lawani speaks some truth but he is always confusing. I dont usually know which direction he is coming from.

That aunty wey be everybody girlfriend, always stalking and trolling.

I'm not sure about uncle Lawani speaking truth but I know he believes completely in whatever opinion he holds about something and would never capitulate even in the face of obvious holes in his assertions.

I have already said maybe Eshu interferes with animals' decisions but never on thesame scale as humans. I am not know it all like christians and muslims. If you say the power of contemplation or that of making complex decisions is thesame in animals as in humans, I won't be arguing that back and forth with you.