Are born-again Christians, those who have committed their lives to Jesus, capable of sin?  Do they sin?


Is it possible for people who do not sin, and are NOT Christians to be saved?


Is not being "born-again" considered a sin?


Do ALL sins lead to "death"?


What is the more egregious infraction?  Not being born-again and accepting Jesus  OR  committing sins like murder, theft, etc?

tonye-t:

Answering your posts in NL is like creating another warfare in NL, but i'll answer sha not expecting your consenting or otherwise

@topic,

yes a Bornagain xtian can fall into Sin, but there is a difference btw one falling and one living in it

Can you tell us the difference? BTW, how does one really know one is born-again? Could one live under the delusion that one is born-again, whereas God has not really received the individual?

Yes, born again christian do sin, the bible did not say we wont sin at all, but we should run away from sin and seek forgiveness in case of  sin. kindly check Isaiah 64:6.

Good question huxley. . .how does one know his application for born again status has been accepted by god?

You'll receive a dummy confirmation email. I'm sure that's the answer you're looking for.

henrysam:

Yes, born again christian do sin, the bible did not say we wont sin at all, but we should run away from sin and seek forgiveness in case of  sin. kindly check Isaiah 64:6.

So if Born-again christians are able to sin it is usless to be Born-again just to Sin-again.

Very good topic

One that is born again cannot sin but can commit error.

However if he knowing continues to live in the error for a second he is a sinner and is liable to death in Hell fire.

The bible says that believers do NOT sin, as in the follower:


1 John 2: 12

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Believers DO NOT SIN

1 John 3: 6

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5: 18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


But, then again, it says that we all sin


1 John 1: 8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.



So which one is it?

huxley2:

The bible says that believers do NOT sin, as in the follower:


1 John 2: 12

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Believers DO NOT SIN

1 John 3: 6

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5: 18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


But, then again, it says that we all sin


1 John 1: 8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.



So which one is it?

Are born-again Christians, those who have committed their lives to Jesus, capable of sin? Do they sin?

Yes we still have concupiscencee, so we're capable of sinning. However, we are not to wallow in sin and consider sin a 'normal' thing. We are to constantly strive for perfection. We are to ask God for the grace to grow in faith and to keep from temptation. We are also to take the effort to prevent ourselves from falling into sin.
If we do fall into sin we are to confess our sins so that we may be returned to a state of grace.

Is it possible for people who do not sin, and are NOT Christians to be saved?

It is possible for those who do not have full knowledge of the christian faith or have not heard the Gospel to be saved. However if you are fully aware of the christian faith, you truly understand it, and still reject it, well good luck.

Is not being "born-again" considered a sin?

I don't understand you here. How is being 'born-again' a sin?

Do ALL sins lead to "death"?

No. there are sins that are deadly, mortal sins, and sins that are not deadly, venial sin. Mortal sins are what separate you from God, venial sins wound your soul and makes you even more vulnerable to mortal sin.

What is the more egregious infraction? Not being born-again and accepting Jesus OR committing sins like murder, theft, etc?

You cannot fully accept Jesus and his teachings and not be born-again. Those who think they're born-again but deny the teachings of Christ are deluding themselves, they're not born-again. Unfortunately nowadays people interpret what they want ito in the Bible so they can justify in their heads what accepting the teachings of Jesus is.

1 John 2: 12

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Believers DO NOT SIN

1 John 3: 6

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5: 18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


But, then again, it says that we all sin


1 John 1: 8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.



So which one is it?

Both, we are sinners because we are born into a sinful nature and are capable of sin. That's what St. John is talking about in 1 John 1:1-10. We cannot deceive ourselves to thinking we're perfect as humans, we must acknowledge that we are sinners, that is born into a sinful nature. The first passage you quoted 1 John 5:8 speaks of those who've been baptized into the body of Christ, and through baptism have been given sanctifying grace and have more grace to prevent sin. Though we have a sinful nature does not mean that we must act upon it.

So basically do not think you cannot sin, and because you're a part of the body of Christ you should stay away from sin so as to remain in his grace.

Also when a Christian sins, he or she is separating himself from God and is therefore at that time not of God. But through confession of our sins and contrition of our heart we are forgiven and are put back into union with God, and therefore of God.

Hope that helps.

@huxley2

Very simple

1 John 1: 8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This chapter comes before

1 John 2: 12

I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Believers DO NOT SIN

1 John 3: 6

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 5: 18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

The first quote states that if we are to come to God with the beleive that we have not sinned then we make God a liar.


If you read the bible no where did it say

He that saith he liveth in Christ Jesus and sinneth not is a liar and the truth is not in him

The context in which the above was made

Consider this dialogue

Christian: My friend, did you know that “if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin?” I have proved this to be true, and if you will come to Him as I did you may prove it for yourself, and be cleansed from all sin.

Self-Righteous: But I have no sin to be cleansed away; I have no need of the blood of Jesus.

Christian: What? You say you have no sin? “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” Surely you are wrong and self-deceived. You should repent, confess your sins, and be saved, for we read in I John 1 :9. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Self-Righteous: But I have never sinned, and do not feel that I have anything to confess or repent of. I pay my honest debts, and treat my neighbors well, and support my family, and I believe I am just as good as anyone. I am not a sinner, and have never done anything wrong.

Christian: Surely, in saving that, you are making God a liar, for in I John 1:10 it says: “If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him. liar, and His word is not in us.”


A christain Cannot sin

Good one!

Now, without biting around.

The Born Again person has the right to forgiveness,
while the natural man is condemned and has no right to forgiveness.

This forgiveness is by default and does not require asking from God Almighty!
We are his kids and forgiveness is our birthright.

But we have appetite for the word of God and do feed on it, this strengthens
us from the inner man and the appetite for the wrong things are all lost in a process of time.

The natural man will not go to  hell for what he did,
he'll go to hell for who he is.

Remember, Jesus went to hell not for something he did,
but because the sins of the world were laid on his spirit
and He became sin. But we know He defeated the devil right there
in hell and resurrected the 3rd day Hallelujah!

So, being born again is God's gift to the creature called man
whom he loves so much. The gift of Life(Zoe), the God type of life, the righteousness life. Its a new nature that's totally different from the natural man.

Its free, all you need do is confess that Jesus came to earth to die for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day, you've got to believe this truth in your heart of heart. Its true and not a story. This is all you need do to be born again.

HOW DO YOU KNOW ITS NOT COUNTERFEIT?

Well you should know its counterfeit if you do not believe the confession you made. But if you believe that confession, you'll know you are born again for a truth; after all, He's paid for you. hallelujah!

@truth only


You are in Error

I want you to tell me where in the bible backs the qoute below

This forgiveness is by default and does not require asking from God Almighty!
We are his kids and forgiveness is our birthright.

This is a lie from hell there is no modicum of truth in this.

Hey Backslider,

I show you a mystery that is been hid since time past, but is given unto you to know as a believer in Jesus and his sacrifice. You will have to do your own diligent study of the bible portions I will guide you through.

Even the old testament folks received forgiveness for their errors.
And they were never expected to ask for this forgiveness each time they were in error.
The forgiveness was consummated ones in year by the High Priest;

Hebrews 9:7   But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:  


Now see;

Hebrews 9:24   For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Hebrews 9:25   Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Further see;

Hebrews 10:7   Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

 Hebrews 10:8   Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

 Hebrews 10:9   Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 Hebrews 10:10   By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 Hebrews 10:11   And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

 Hebrews 10:12   But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

 Hebrews 10:13   From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

 Hebrews 10:14   For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.  


Hebrews 10:15   Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

 Hebrews 10:16   This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 Hebrews 10:17   And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


Now in conclusion;

If the old testament folks received forgiveness, what then is the difference between the old testament folks and us New Creation. Its clear in Romans 8:1-10


Hebrews 10:18   Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 Hebrews 10:19   Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

 Hebrews 10:20   By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

 Hebrews 10:21   And having an high priest over the house of God;

 Hebrews 10:22   Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 Hebrews 10:23   Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

Backslider,

You will do yourself a lot of good by a diligent study of Hebrews 9 & 10.
Have you received the Holy Spirit?

Please ask whatever questions you have doubts over. I'm here to dissolve doubts and answer hard questions.

You must receive the Holy Spirit to understanding and believe these things.

Remain blessed, Jesus cares so much for your spirit.

For one verse there are a 100 different interpretations by christians {and they all claim to have the 'holy spirit'}.
Its either they are 100 holy ghosts or the latter is a very poor communicator.

@truthonly

I dont see where what you qouted has any relevance to fact that A born shall not sin.

Backslider/Tudor,

Guys, these things are not for your brains to reason out, only your spirit man can receive the WORD of God. We are called believers because we have believed and do believe.

If you search/study scripture with the intention of knowing, you will surely learn, but if you search with the intention to criticize and find faults, you'll be drawn as far away as possible. God and His WORD are one; meaning these WORDS of scripture I am guiding you through are not mere words. It's the WORD OF GOD, and is GOD, It is living and active and knows you and the intents of your heart, nothing is hidden from it.

An unbelieving heart searching/studying scripture may toil on and on only to arrive at confusion-WHY? Because his heart isn't right, his heart has the wrong intentions and unwilling to believe, bible calls it a doubting heart. And the WORD knows this.

Like I said you must receive the Holy spirit to be enabled to grow in the knowledge of this new life in Christ. Its a spiritual kingdom, it's organized, its powerful, it's the most glorious and the greatest thing there is on earth. 

But consider this;

1 Corinthians 2:11   For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

  1 Corinthians 2:12   Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

  1 Corinthians 2:13   Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

  1 Corinthians 2:14   But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Backslider,

The book of Acts - Revelations is a picture of the New creation. It's the mirror of the new man in Christ written in words. We cannot know who we became when we accepted Jesus and His sacrifice except through these bible revelations given by God's spirit.

So everything I showed you in the book of Hebrews in my previous text is a picture of what was obtainable in the old testament/dispensation versus the new testament/dispensation with respect to committing sin and the atonement for sin. they only apply to Born Again people in the New testament.

Tudor,

There is only one interpretation to scripture. The Holy Spirit is not confused. When grown, you don't say "there are many interpretations to scripture"  You come to the knowledge of the Truth, no longer tossed around by every wind of doctrine.

Trust me guys; I tell you the truth only, I do not lie.

@Truthonly
Sorry we cannot take your word for it. How do we know you're telling the truth? How are we sure you have the holy spirit?

Tudór:

@Truthonly
Sorry we cannot take your word for it. How do we know you're telling the truth? How are we sure you have the holy spirit?

Tudor,

Everything I've said here is scripture, no more, no less. I have no words of mine here Tudor.

Just GOD'S WORDS for you !

Is it not from the SAME bible you quoted and made your interpretation that Backslider {a fellow christian} disagreed with your analysis {apparently he has the holy spirit too}

My question is which of you two should i believe? You both claim to have the 'spirit' in you but the both of you can't be right! One person must be wrong!
So, how do i know you're the right one Truthonly?

Well Backslider has not commented since my last submission. I'm sure he'll be diligent to study further and come to the Truth.

Listen Tudor,

God loves man, so much that He sent His son Jesus to die as a sacrifice for the sins of man.

I have said this before, 'No one will go to Hell for what he did, People will go to hell because of WHO they are'

Man was not condemned because of what each person did, but for Adams' sin.

It's religion that teaches praying for forgiveness at each wrong doing(which you cannot possibly tell nor count anyway)

When John wrote in I John 1:8, , he was firstly speaking of people who think they are so good and do not need God's mercy through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Now having come to God in submission, and being Born Again, he goes on to say in I John 2:12 that 'I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you[b] for his name's sake[/b].' And it is his spirit that's Born Again, not his body or mind.

Understand that the Born Again person is not the same as the old man. It is his mind that wants to sin, but his spirit is pure and just before God. He is described as one that is 'created in righteousness and true holiness' (Ephesians 4:24)

In all of this God advices to flee sin WHY? Because its not consistent with our new nature. Not that God will abort you and send you to hell.
No! no! no! The ignorance of this truth is what has made many Christians so ineffective in their Christian walk and cannot have their prayers answered because they cannot receive fro their Father.

If God Almighty could allow Jesus (who did no wrong) go to the cross and die for sinful man, then be sure He can take a man who has accepted that sacrifice, look him in the face and say 'this man is innocent'

Just like the man who isn't Born Again but does all the right things and no wrong(from man's stand point), its his conscience that tells him all is still good, but God sees him as dead(separation from God). The same way a Born Again person who does wrong and asks for forgiveness does this to justify his conscience only, it has no impact to God. God justified that man the day he received Jesus and His sacrifice of death. God called him righteous, holy and a son of God.

Now, no matter how much a man who isn't Born Again prays for forgiveness, it only works for his conscience, he is still condemned.

See;

II Corinthians 5:

19 'To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.'

See Also;

Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

A Born Again person has transcended above the human nature and laws where God is concerned. God sees him righteous, Holy and as His Glory.
So this man has no business looking at what his flesh is engaged in, but is to fix his gaze on what the spirit says concerning him and his new nature, what the WORD has said concerning him in the scripture as revealed in the Epistles/Gospel. 'Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of your faith'. (Hebrews 12:2)

How do you look unto Jesus, because He isn't here with us? You feed on God's WORD continually, because its the WORD that has the power to make your actions right. But if you keep minding the things of the flesh by observing all your wrong actions, boy! you have a hard life to live.

Feed on God's word, feed fat and bare much fruit(have an abundance of God's word believed, understood and stored up in your heart).

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Hallelujah!

KJV, John 3:16 says he gave his only begotten son to die for us, also john 3:18,. Wasn't jesus perfect in everyway? for he did not sin.
1 john 5:18 says , "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.", Jesus is the only begotten son and isn't it true that he did not sin. (1 john 3:5)
rev. 21:7 says , " He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.",
1 John 3:6 says , "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
We Are sinners and isn't it true that we have not seen God nor do we fully know him? but this is the free gift of God that jesus did die for our sins that his righteous can be credited to us even though we are unrighteous. And isn't it true that when we do see God (in heaven)there will be no more sin (rev 21:27).

Y not. Na their sin plenty pass

The answer is YES

how do we recognize a born again is another question