JeSoul:

Resurrected! _{just returning the favor you've been doing others}

Since atheists don't believe prayers work/make a difference, why does it bother you when others do it?

davidylan:

i wonder why the prayer bothers him so much.

Tudór:

In nigeria, theres no travelling bus people don't pray before the journey yet we have a very high accident rate on our roads. Well it seems like the more you pray the greater your chances at an accident- thank goodness they don't pray in airplanes. . . .

Chrisbenogor:

ROTFLMAO
Girl if you were missing me you could have given a call lol you know na

I just wonder the rationale behind the whole kini jo, like someone said if
they pray and no accident , God saw us through
they pray and nearly got an accident, God prevented it from happening
they pray and get an accident, God prevented anyone from getting hurt
they pray still get an accident and some people died, God prevented the rest from dying

seems like twisted logic, but you get the point

JeSoul:

hehe na real miss I was scrolling thru old topics and stumbled upon yours and figured since you've been resurrecting topics all over the joint, someone should raise yours too since as I see it didn't get much justice done to it.

You know I was thinking of this exact same thing while pondering another matter recently. The fact is many of us can put our total trust in praying to God because we have seen God do things we thought were impossible. Situations have dramatically turned around and doors opened that had seemed immovable.

Now does God always answer prayer? No. Infact I am finding that out each day I pray for something and still don't see it happen 2.5 years and counting now. But does it stop me from still praying? no. Because I know whether or not God chooses to grant a request He does so for my own benefit, for my own good.

Now I understand from the secular point of view you see it as impossible to tell if God "answered" the prayer or not. But from our perspective regardless of what happens,"whether we live or die, it is in God's hands" and that's what's really important. The peace and confidence in leaving it all in His hands and for His glory and His will.

Chrisbenogor:

Are you sure, I will make a good christian oh,

My sentiments exactly, you ever heard of the great prayer experiment?

Chrisbenogor:

ROTFLMAO
Girl if you were missing me you could have given a call lol you know na

I just wonder the rationale behind the whole kini jo, like someone said if
they pray and no accident , God saw us through
they pray and nearly got an accident, God prevented it from happening
they pray and get an accident, God prevented anyone from getting hurt
they pray still get an accident and some people died, God prevented the rest from dying


seems like twisted logic, but you get the point



When you pray sincerely, you are committing yourself and whatever situation occurs into the hands of the almighty God. It is He who decides what course he wants our lives to take.

Chrisbenogor:

ROTFLMAO
Girl if you were missing me you could have given a call lol you know na

I just wonder the rationale behind the whole kini jo, like someone said if
they pray and no accident , God saw us through
they pray and nearly got an accident, God prevented it from happening
they pray and get an accident, God prevented anyone from getting hurt
they pray still get an accident and some people died, God prevented the rest from dying


seems like twisted logic, but you get the point

JeSoul:

hehe submit your application once you obtain that qualification
No I haven't. Please, enlighten me.

JeSoul:

Resurrected! _{just returning the favor you've been doing others}

Since atheists don't believe prayers work/make a difference, why does it bother you when others do it?

Bota:


When you pray sincerely,[b] you are committing yourself and whatever situation occurs into the hands of the almighty God. [/b]It is He who decides what course he wants our lives to take

toneyb:

Prayer is just a call for help when you are in need and you feel helpless, it makes people feel they are doing something when actually they are doing nothing because there is absolute NO evidence to show that prayer works in any way. Those that pray and those that do not all suffer the same harm and misfortune. There is absolute NO evidence to show that those that pray are better protected than those that do not.

Prayer DOES NOT work. Anything that human beins need to do must be done by humans themselves, no god has ever done anything for humanity.

Chrisbenogor:

Well it was an experiment to test the proposition that praying for sick patients improves their health. The patients were assigned, strictly at random, to an experimental group (received prayers) or a control group (received no prayers). Neither the patients, nor their doctors or caregivers, nor the experimenters were allowed to know which patients were being prayed for and which patients were controls. The team of researchers spending $2.4 million of Templeton money under the leadership of Dr Herbert Benson, a cardiologist at the Mind/Body Medical Institute near Boston. Dr Benson was earlier quoted in a Templeton press release as 'believing that evidence for the efficacy of intercessory prayer in medicinal settings is mounting'. Dr Benson and his team monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals, all of whom received coronary bypass surgery. The patients were divided into three groups. Group 1 received prayers and didn't know it. Group 2 (the control group) received no prayers and didn't know it. Group 3 received prayers and did know it. The comparison between Groups 1 and 2 tests for the efficacy of intercessory prayer. Group 3 tests for possible
psychosomatic effects of knowing that one is being prayed for. Prayers were delivered by the congregations of three churches, one in Minnesota, one in Massachusetts and one in Missouri, all distant from the three hospitals.
The results, reported in the American Heart Journal of April 2006, were clear-cut. There was no difference between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not. What a surprise. There was a difference between those who knew they had been prayed for and those who did not know one way or the other; but it went in the wrong direction. Those who knew they had been the beneficiaries of prayer suffered significantly more complications than those who did not.

manmustwac:

It bothers me coz if am in a taxi travelling from lagos to warri in nigeria i have to close my eyes and pretend to pray like everybody else and after praying the driver will be driving like a stuntman even though he had prayed for a safe journey. A safe journey depends on a safe driver with a car in good working condition good roads and good weather not prayers.

JeSoul:

  Would you be suprised to learn that the bible has the same position as you do? with one addition in that God can & will sometimes supernaturally act to prevent an accident. The bible teaches to pray AND act, not just pray alone and I challenge you or anyone else to show me otherwise from the bible.

This is the real problem: Nigerians have completely abused & misunderstood the purpose of prayer. I'll keep saying it, turn to the bible and read what it teaches NOT what people are saying and 'doing' what it is errorneously purported to teach.

Chrisbenogor:

Well it was an experiment to test the proposition that praying for sick patients improves their health. The patients were assigned, strictly at random, to an experimental group (received prayers) or a control group (received no prayers). Neither the patients, nor their doctors or caregivers, nor the experimenters were allowed to know which patients were being prayed for and which patients were controls. The team of researchers spending $2.4 million of Templeton money under the leadership of Dr Herbert Benson, a cardiologist at the Mind/Body Medical Institute near Boston. Dr Benson was earlier quoted in a Templeton press release as 'believing that evidence for the efficacy of intercessory prayer in medicinal settings is mounting'. Dr Benson and his team monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals, all of whom received coronary bypass surgery. The patients were divided into three groups. Group 1 received prayers and didn't know it. Group 2 (the control group) received no prayers and didn't know it. Group 3 received prayers and did know it. The comparison between Groups 1 and 2 tests for the efficacy of intercessory prayer. Group 3 tests for possible
psychosomatic effects of knowing that one is being prayed for. Prayers were delivered by the congregations of three churches, one in Minnesota, one in Massachusetts and one in Missouri, all distant from the three hospitals.
The results, reported in the American Heart Journal of April 2006, were clear-cut. There was no difference between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not. What a surprise. There was a difference between those who knew they had been prayed for and those who did not know one way or the other; but it went in the wrong direction. Those who knew they had been the beneficiaries of prayer suffered significantly more complications than those who did not.

JeSoul:

   I'm not suprised at the results. God is not in the business of "proving" Himself to anyone. He chooses to answer prayers when He wants and[b] how [/b] He wants. And no amount of human coaxing - especially for the wrong reasons - will persuade Him otherwise.

Chrisbenogor:

LOL
Ok I forgot God always tends to disappear when there is a call on him to show himself lol. Prayers make no difference.

duduspace:

This is an untruth JeSoul, when exactly did god tell you this? assuming what you say is true, why then did he ask Gideon to put skins out for a sign? and why did Elijah have to call down fire from heaven into water? that looks to me like a god who wants to prove himself to people. Only problem is that he is a very inconsistent god who is totally unpredictable and therefore cannot be spoken for by any man.

JeSoul:

  Your opinion.

  A quick search of bible commentaries will quickly show why millions of christians view and understand those verses you're refering to quite differently.

JeSoul:

Your opinion.

My life and experiences and supernatural occurences in impossible circumstances prove beyond all doubt to me that the God I serve and love and will lay my life down for is real.

duduspace:

Your original statement was that god is not in the business of proving himself to anyone which those particular stories from the bible clearly contradicts no matter what the bible commentaries say. Be man/woman enough to accept your original statement was either wrong or God is inconsistent. You can't eat your cake and have it.

JeSoul:

As to your examples of Gideon and Elijah, the answer is very simple. Were Elijah and Gideon believers in God? yes. They weren't secular, atheist, researchers who aren't genuinely looking for God but moreso another reason to mock God & His believers. God does not go about looking to prove Himself to people like that. and the bible could not be clearer
Rm 1:28 "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind

Chrisbenogor:

Yeah I know the whole personal experience thingy, it may be real to you but I am sure you cannot sell it to us or can you?

Chrisbenogor:

em Jesoul the templeton foundation is a christian foundation, the top three religious british scientists were involved, maybe not up to the status of Gideon but they could suffice no?

JeSoul:

  Yes, and Creflo Dollar, Paula White, TB Joshua, Oyakhilome and co are all christians too.

The mere fact that they put on a study to see if prayer "works" is a mountain of evidence that this so-called christian foundation do not even know the faith they proclaim to profess.

JeSoul:

None of the above.

My original statement was that "God is not in the business of proving Himself to anyone" was in the context of replying to Chris' scenario of the research that was done purporting to see if "God really answers prayers".

As to your examples of Gideon and Elijah, the answer is very simple. Were Elijah and Gideon believers in God? yes. They weren't secular, atheist, researchers who aren't genuinely looking for God but moreso another reason to mock God & His believers. God does not go about looking to prove Himself to people like that. and the bible could not be clearer
Rm 1:28 "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind

duduspace:

In what way are they different from Gideon? isn't Gideon asking for proof some sort of study in his own way?

duduspace:

Why would God need to prove himself to those who already believe in him? isn't that some sort of contradiction? If Gideon already beleived, why ask for a sign?
The proof was not for those who already beleived it was for those who did not, at least according to the story.