vicadex07:


At least we can see the evidence of isreals supremacy till date.

What is the evidence of the power wielded by the so called "benin empire" in today's Nigeria?

When you compare both cultures, and people considering their achievements and influence till date, who do you think wields more superiority?

If a war was to break out between benin people and the Yoruba, who would be Victor?

Of what political influence is the Bini people today if they were so powerful back then?

If we are both linked by blood which seems to be so considering some similarities in culture and etymology, which culture appears more dominant?

All the so called supremacy attributed to the benin empire is embeded in "historical fiction" and as we all know history is subject to perception. My own account of an event we both witness will be different from yours putting human sentiments, bias and personal ability to recall events into consideration.

The political or economic power of ancient kingdoms like Ghana kingdom, Songhai, Bini empire, Egypt, Ethiopia, e.t.c are not necessarily related to their current political influence, otherwise, Egypt would have been the most successful nation on earth. Rome, not even Italy would have been the most successful nation in today's Europe. Where is Rome today?.

Egypt brought civilization to the world; where is Egypt today?. Ethiopia was so powerful in the past that they were not colonized; where is Ethiopia today?.

Some ancient great kingdoms are not even heard of today, cause nothing is left of their former selves. Where is Songhai today?. It's just a name in the history books!.

Kingdoms fall!. Kingdoms rise!. Kingdoms reach a height at specific time in their history, and that's what the Bini empire did up to the 1800 century AD. As a matter of fact, the Bini Kingdom is globally recognized as one of greatest empire of the ancient world, not just in Africa.

Ife or and Oyo empires were an offshoot of the Bini empire, and that doesn't diminish the power wielded by the Oyo empire at their prime.

I try to avoid this kind of thread cause it leads to ethnic bashing, something I don't want to be part of. However, my theory about the cause of this incessant argument on Nairaland about who was greater or not, is that Yorubas today are more educated than the Bini's and could re-write history to their favour. Afterall, after the British committed so much crime all over the world, Mr. Oscar Wilde told them not to worry, because according to him "the only thing we owe to history is to re-write it".

The greatest African kingdoms before the coming of Europeans. See http://www.africason.com/2016/02/great-african-kingdoms-before-coming-of.html

musicwriter:


The political or economic power of ancient kingdoms like Ghana kingdom, Songhai, Bini empire, Egypt, Ethiopia, e.t.c are not necessarily related to their current political influence, otherwise, Egypt would have been the most successful nation on earth. Rome, not even Italy would have been the most successful nation in today's Europe. Where is Rome today?.

Egypt brought civilization to the world; where is Egypt today?. Ethiopia was so powerful in the past that they were not colonized; where is Ethiopia today?.

Some ancient great kingdoms are not even heard of today, cause nothing is left of their former selves. Where is Songhai today?. It's just a name in the history books!.

Kingdoms fall!. Kingdoms rise!. Kingdoms reach a height at specific time in their history, and that's what the Bini empire did up to the 1800 century AD. As a matter of fact, the Bini Kingdom is globally recognized as one of greatest empire of the ancient world, not just in Africa.

Ife or and Oyo empires were an offshoot of the Bini empire, and that doesn't diminish the power wielded by the Oyo empire at their prime.

I try to avoid this kind of thread cause it leads to ethnic bashing, something I don't want to be part of. However, my theory about the cause of this incessant argument on Nairaland about who was greater or not, is that Yorubas today are more educated than the Bini's and could re-write history to their favour. Afterall, after the British committed so much crime all over the world, Mr. Oscar Wilde told them not to worry, because according to him "the only thing we owe to history is to re-write it".

The greatest African kingdoms before the coming of Europeans. See http://www.africason.com/2016/02/great-african-kingdoms-before-coming-of.html

nice

musicwriter:


The political or economic power of ancient kingdoms like Ghana kingdom, Songhai, Bini empire, Egypt, Ethiopia, e.t.c are not necessarily related to their current political influence, otherwise, Egypt would have been the most successful nation on earth. Rome, not even Italy would have been the most successful nation in today's Europe. Where is Rome today?.

Egypt brought civilization to the world; where is Egypt today?. Ethiopia was so powerful in the past that they were not colonized; where is Ethiopia today?.

Some ancient great kingdoms are not even heard of today, cause nothing is left of their former selves. Where is Songhai today?. It's just a name in the history books!.

Kingdoms fall!. Kingdoms rise!. Kingdoms reach a height at specific time in their history, and that's what the Bini empire did up to the 1800 century AD. As a matter of fact, the Bini Kingdom is globally recognized as one of greatest empire of the ancient world, not just in Africa.

Ife or and Oyo empires were an offshoot of the Bini empire, and that doesn't diminish the power wielded by the Oyo empire at their prime.

I try to avoid this kind of thread cause it leads to ethnic bashing, something I don't want to be part of. However, my theory about the cause of this incessant argument on Nairaland about who was greater or not, is that Yorubas today are more educated than the Bini's and could re-write history to their favour. Afterall, after the British committed so much crime all over the world, Mr. Oscar Wilde told them not to worry, because according to him "the only thing we owe to history is to re-write it".

The greatest African kingdoms before the coming of Europeans. See http://www.africason.com/2016/02/great-african-kingdoms-before-coming-of.html

At least all those countries and ancient empires you mentioned as examples fill up a country or even countries and they have reigned in farther distant years than the benin empire...but the world acclaimed benin empire with historical records up till the 19th century cannot boast of just one state in Nigeria.

They cannot even be said to be the 4th, 5th, 6th, or 7th largest and most influential ethnic group in Nigeria.

To me, their so called greatness was just overstated and exaggerated. Meanwhile....

PeterKbaba:
[b]My simple questions for the Benins will be:

How long did a runaway price from Benin take to walk from Benin to Ife (Probably 3 months).
How did he survive without food and water for this period?
How can a man so dirty and tired after walking for months, be able to convince the people in Ife, he came from the sky (A better place lol)?
What language did their prince speak to the Yoruba's in Ife when he got there and how were they able to understand?
How did the Benin know that their prince was alive in Yorubaland?

If the Benin claim they own the OBA title, Why did they have to change from Ogiso Dynasty to a new Oba Dynasty?
If you believe that Oduduwa was a prince from Ogiso, there should be no reason for the Dynasty change, you guys would have continued with the Ogiso.....

My Opinion is that, the Benin knew that the was no royal Male blood to carry on from the last Ogiso Dynasty. The was serious trouble in the Kingdom, so they called for help from their closest Spiritual/Prosperous Ife people to send a Royal male to impregnate their Royal princess, so the kingship could continue (Since kingship is from the Male blood line).

Unfortunately, Since a new Male Royal Blood from Ife arrived, they had to change Dynasty from Ogiso to Obaship.
End of Story[/b]

vicadex07:


At least we can see the evidence of isreals supremacy till date.

What is the evidence of the power wielded by the so called "benin empire" in today's Nigeria?

When you compare both cultures, and people considering their achievements and influence till date, who do you think wields more superiority?

If a war was to break out between benin people and the Yoruba, who would be Victor?

Of what political influence is the Bini people today if they were so powerful back then?

If we are both linked by blood which seems to be so considering some similarities in culture and etymology, which culture appears more dominant?

All the so called supremacy attributed to the benin empire is embeded in "historical fiction" and as we all know history is subject to perception. My own account of an event we both witness will be different from yours putting human sentiments, bias and personal ability to recall events into consideration.

I just had time to respond to this post of yours. First of all, Israel just became a country only as recently as in 1948, while the kingdom of Benin is of many African kingdoms that existed many centuries ago. This should explain to you why one still exists till today and the other does not.

You should also realize that nations rise to power and fall. This is history. Egypt was once a world power but today it is not. Rome once rose to power and influence but today it is a shadow of its former self. Benin empire was a great influential kingdom, wielding influence over Bini land, parts of Yoruba territory, parts of Igbo territory etc. This is WELL DOCUMENTED in history. The Benin empire was defeated by the British after it was invaded, destroyed and the king sent to exile. If not for this, I would expect the Bini kingdom to continue to exist till today.

I see attempts to belittle the Bini kingdom by some people on this forum or even more so to re-write history and undermine the influence it had.

Your question about if war breaks out between Bini and Yoruba does not even make sense in this question because you are assuming that the greater population of Yoruba would make sure they win, while forgetting that today wars are much less of physical fighting than in the past and are more of use sophisticated weapons. Also, having allies on your side can assist a country in winning its wars.

Whether you choose to accept it or not, the Bini people had a GREAT kingdom, and wielded great influence over several areas, including Yoruba land. You don't have to agree with history and you are entitled to your own beliefs. But do not try to belittle someone else's influence or claim someone else's influence as yours just because it does not belong to you.

bigfrancis21:


I just had time to respond to this post of yours. First of all, Israel just became a country only as recently as in 1948, while the kingdom of Benin is of many African kingdoms that existed many centuries ago. This should explain to you why one still exists till today and the other does not.

You should also realize that nations rise to power and fall. This is history. Egypt was once a world power but today it is not. Rome once rose to power and influence but today it is a shadow of its former self. Benin empire was a great influential kingdom, wielding influence over Bini land, parts of Yoruba territory, parts of Igbo territory etc. This is WELL DOCUMENTED in history. The Benin empire was defeated by the British after it was invaded, destroyed and the king sent to exile. If not for this, I would expect the Bini kingdom to continue to exist till today.

I see attempts to belittle the Bini kingdom by some people on this forum or even more so to re-write history and undermine the influence it had.

Your question about if war breaks out between Bini and Yoruba does not even make sense in this question because you are assuming that the greater population of Yoruba would make sure they win, while forgetting that today wars are much less of physical fighting than in the past and are more of use sophisticated weapons. Also, having allies on your side can assist a country in winning its wars.

Whether you choose to accept it or not, the Bini people had a GREAT kingdom, and wielded great influence over several areas, including Yoruba land. You don't have to agree with history and you are entitled to your own beliefs. But do not try to belittle someone else's influence or claim someone else's influence as yours just because it does not belong to you.

The fact remains that evidence of that your acclaimed greatness was/is not present here and so because both yorubas and binis have no valid written history, it will be good for us to assume the present situation to judge. That is my own point.

pdpchangeapc:


The fact remains that evidence of that your acclaimed greatness was/is not present here and so because both yorubas and binis have no valid written history, it will be good for us to assume the present situation to judge. That is my own point.

For starters, I am not Bini but I do not need to be Bini to speak on Bini history.

@bold...please do not drag Bini into this your self-acclaimed history revision. If you think Yorubas do not have a valid written history, the Binis DO have a valid written history and do not drag the Binis down to that level of yours.

=en&sa=X&ve

The UK is undoubtedly greater than Nigeria even if the population of both countries differ considerably in favour of Nigeria. Am not really saying bini is, but your excuse is insensible.

omonnakoda:
Sango lo ma paa iya re. Beere lo ma rin lo won ko de ni ri mo. Dandan ni pee awon obi re o ni jere re.
Only a bastard and not a true omoluabi will go picking unnecessary and foolish fights.
Edo are brothers of Yoruba one way or another . We do not have any dispute with them. If you think it is funny or a cheap thrill you better go and find something to do. If there is any misunderstanding with Edo we will resolve it with Iwa pele that real Yoruba are know for not like the descendants of slave masquerading as Yoruba

how does this portrayed iwapele?

Our father's says beti o ba gbo yingin, inu oni baje. You are questioning his position about Ife empire, are you Oyo?

If so, Oyo is ife's brother somewhere and they can find somewhere to settle their difference.

vicadex07:
cc;

OPCNAIRALAND

BOKOHALAL

AREWAFEDERATION

ABSOLUTESUCCESS

Many are the new versions of Yoruba history, we need to keep abreast of the ones yet to come from the enemies' camp.

Some Yoruba writers preferred local version of Oduduwa, and they want to stick to the east too, so Bini comes to the picture.

When you dump the East, dump the 'East line of story'. Dump Oduduwa, and dump Ile Ife, don't try to inherit it, don't plagiarize, it will haunt you as 'quacks' unable to tell a good story.

To the acclaimed Igbo Republican, 'east' and partisan sympathy to Bini cause is political, a new dimension of 'east versus west' camouflaged as 'history'.

There is this Igbo proverb I know:

'Yoruba are cowards'

they says,

But since the beginning of Yoruba writers at the turn of the last two centuries, Yoruba never wrote their history with cowardice perspective.

From Crowther to Biobaku, none went to the grave thinking they were suppressing a Bini connection anyway, this new bini variant never existed.

That a group of people has turned 'Job comforters' shows that the enemies can never be loved so as to change.

The Yoruba is not a 'Yoruba empire', it is a 'Yoruba race'.
Let Bini be whatever empire suits her, we are but Yoruba race.

We are a civilization that was planted with everything that makes for a civil and organized city-states from the onset.
We have checks and balance.

Yoruba history is in a class of its own. Where did you read a Yoruba history written in two chapters of a book of a funny title?

When did Yoruba King became a Yoruba historian? Even my books on Yoruba historical traditions are of 'hundred pages not enough'.

History of a great people always have an aura of greatness about it. And Yoruba history is part of her greatness.

People should be ashamed to have read Pauline epistles and fail in their own stories 2000 years later.

And you still think its not cowardly to call the history book of a great empire by a funny name?

If you can't be great by this token, how have you told men of your greatness?

We are the envy of others.

Adie funfun,

aayo Olodumare.

sunkieisland:
Been reading this Benin kingdom and yoruba race arguments for a couple of weeks now and i think that the supporters of the Benin kingdom are myopic in their assessment of the discourse.




The Yoruba kingdom extends as far as Dahomey, Ilorin and some parts of Ghana. And amongst Oduduwa's children, oba of Benin was definitely not the first.




The originator of these arguments also failed to mention some children of Oduduwa, like Onipopo of Popo, onisabe of Isabe.




BTW, i don't favour one tribe


#IamfromZion

tribal rant can never take the place of sound historical discourse. There was nothing like 'yoruba kingdom'

Armaggedon:
tribal rant can never take the place of sound historical discourse. There was nothing like 'yoruba kingdom'

Yes you're right, nothing like Yoruba kingdom.
Yoruba had an empire not a kingdom.
Benin had a kingdom while Yoruba had an empire.
Benin/Edo is an enclosed tribe within a single Nigeria State while Yoruba is a race in Africa and beyond.
Between a kingdom and an empire which one is superior? Here is the dictionary meaning of the two:
An empire is an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.
A kingdom is a country, state, or territory ruled by a king or queen.

kaythomas:

Yes you're right, nothing like Yoruba kingdom.
Yoruba had an empire not a kingdom.
Benin had a kingdom while Yoruba had an empire.
Benin/Edo is an enclosed tribe within a single Nigeria State while Yoruba is a race in Africa and beyond.
Between a kingdom and an empire which one is superior? Here is the dictionary meaning of the two:
An empire is an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.
A kingdom is a country, state, or territory ruled by a king or queen.

oyo was a kingdom not an empire

we now know better

kaythomas:

Yes you're right, nothing like Yoruba kingdom.
Yoruba had an empire not a kingdom.
Benin had a kingdom while Yoruba had an empire.
Benin/Edo is an enclosed tribe within a single Nigeria State while Yoruba is a race in Africa and beyond.
Between a kingdom and an empire which one is superior? Here is the dictionary meaning of the two:
An empire is an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.
A kingdom is a country, state, or territory ruled by a king or queen.

oyo was a kingdom not an empire

Armaggedon:
oyo was a kingdom not an empire

we now know better

Oyo? a kingdom and not an empire? You've got to be kidding.

Since the Yoruba language arrived in West Africa, it upstaged others. That language was the language of the Ife Ibinu now known as Benin which was used throughout the empire that was an Ife successor empire no different from Ijesa, Oyo, Ijebu and etc. The closest languages to the language of the Benin empire would be Ilaje and Itsekiri in my opinion but nowadays the capital of the old Benin empire now speaks an Edoid language. That is their dilemma. We Yorubas also had old Akokoid languages totally different from what we now speak but we have all adopted Yoruba. If the Benin empire had lasted for long enough, all of the empire today up to Ogba land, Onitsha and etc would have been Yoruboid speakers.


So the Benin of the past was Yoruboid while today is Edoid. They are not really thesame. If a people are representative of the Benin empire in language and culture, those will be the Ilaje and Itsekiri and other Eastern Yoruba not the indigenes of Benin city. There was an Edoid empire that predated the Yoruba one of Benin, that one was named Igodomigodo and would have used a proto Edoid language while earlier Ife people used proto Akokoid.

The Edoid people in Benin want to claim the Benin empire but that empire was Yoruba and not Edoid, the founders of that empire would not have been saying they are not from Ife as the benin now say.

vicadex07:


Guy, those curses are for your parents. I no come here to fight. Am here to put benin people in their place. We are not your mates

a Benin person can still defeat more than a thousand of your tribe.

In ur dreams. The so called benin empire has been decimated to the extent that u cant get just one state to call your own in todays Nigeria, while the Yorubas occupy a whole region, the South West, with five states and anexes in kwara and kogi state.

ritababe:



a Benin person can still defeat more than a thousand of your tribe.

vicadex07:
If the ancient Benin kingdom was ever greater than the Almighty Yorubas, Why cant there population in present day Nigeria fill up at least one state?

And where did you hear this crap?

Answer my question first. At least it isnt a lie

Oluwamuyeewa:




And where did you hear this crap?

I'm yoruba and I agreed Benin empire at it's height was the greatest in Nigeria by far.