Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,151,970 members, 7,814,284 topics. Date: Wednesday, 01 May 2024 at 10:30 AM

Truth About John 1:1 - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Truth About John 1:1 (582 Views)

Lessons From The Birth Of Jesus (3) - John 1:1-14 / What's Incorrect About King James' Rendering Of John 1:1? / John 1:1 According To Greek And Aramaic Translation (2) (3) (4)

(1) (Reply) (Go Down)

Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:52am On Feb 27, 2016
The following traditional rendering of the beginning of the Johannine Prologue comes from the New King James Version
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:53am On Feb 27, 2016
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:53am On Feb 27, 2016
These words are most probably regarded as the most profound words ever spoken by the anonymous New Testament author of the fourth gospel (that we conveniently dub “John”) that Trinitarians are most excited by, because they see in this verse the full revelation of Jesus’divinity and his second personhood in the Trinity.
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:54am On Feb 27, 2016
The most obvious stumbling block for the Trinitarian interpretation is that the verse, as any ordinary person can see, does not actually say that the “word” is Jesus Christ. This good point is emphatically noted by Trinitarian systematic theologian at Fuller Theological Seminary Dr. Colin Brown. Commenting on John 1:1, he writes:
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:54am On Feb 27, 2016
“It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John’s Gospel to read it as if it said: “In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God” (John 1:1).”
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:56am On Feb 27, 2016
Over 50 translations of the Bible as noted by Buzzard do not presume that John 1:1 speaks ofa second person in a Triune Godhead



.[2]So he is clearly not a lone wolf in his view that the ‘logos’ in John 1:1 is the mind or the plan of God rather than a being or an entity existing pre-eternally with the Father as Jesus, the Son.“For 50 translations which did not assume that logos was a second Person, see Focus on the Kingdom of July, 2004, atrestorationfellowship.org.These translations give us the pronoun “it”, not “he” for word.”The ordained Anglican priest and Cambridge theologian, Prof. Cupitt writes:“John’s words ought to be retranslated: “The Word was with God the Father and the Word was the Father’s own Word,” to stress that the Word is not an independent divine being, but is the only God’s own self-expression. If all this is correct, then even John’s language about Jesus still falls within the scope of the King-ambassador model.”[



3]Andrew Cooper Fix points out that the archaic Reijnier Rooleeuw (published in 1694) translation of John 1:1 reflects a Socinian Christological view of Jesus that is antithetical to the Trinitarian view of the verse:“And the word was a god.
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:57am On Feb 27, 2016
And the German literature is reeked with translations that give credence to Rooleeuw’s rendering:Firstly, we point out that it is a documented fact, that the Sahidic Coptic MSS renders John 1:1c as “the word was a god” with “a god” in the “indefinite form.” If the Sahidic community had wanted to convey the Supreme Deity in the definite form, they most certainly had the grammatical tools to do so, but they chose to specifically write John 1:1c as “the word was a god” despite being Trinitarians themselves. This indicates that they saw the word as distinct from the father and that it did not share the same quality of Supreme Deity. If the Sahidic Coptic Christians had believed that the Word shared in equal divinity with the Father, they would certainly have designated the word with the phrase “the god” (with the definite article) and not as “a god.” The original Sahidic Coptic script is as follows:
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 7:57am On Feb 27, 2016
ϨΝ ΤЄϨΟΥЄΙΤЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝϬΙΠϢΑϪЄ, ΑΥѠ ΠϢΑϪЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝΝΑϨΡΜ ΠΝΟΥΤЄ. ΑΥѠ ΝЄΥΝΟΥΤЄ ΠЄ ΠϢΑϪЄ
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:01am On Feb 27, 2016
The key section that is understood as “and the word was a god” in the Sahidic Coptic variant above is “ΑΥѠ ΝЄΥΝΟΥΤЄ ΠЄ ΠϢΑϪЄ.”
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:02am On Feb 27, 2016
And the German literature is reeked with translations that give credence to Rooleeuw’s rendering. A quick overview of over fourteen different German, Greek Orthodox and English translations, most of which, render John 1:1 in a similar way to the Sahidic Coptic rendering:
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:02am On Feb 27, 2016
(37) Rittenlmeyer, 1938, “selbst ein Gott war das Wort” [itself a God/god was the Word/word]; (38) Lyder Brun (Norw. professor of NT theology), 1945, “Ordert var av guddomsart” [TheWord was of divine kind]; (39) Pfaefflin, 1949, “war von gottlicher Wucht” (godlike Being/beinghad the Word/word]; (41) Smit, 1960, “verdensordet var et guddommelig vessen” [ the word of the world was a divine being]; (42) Menge, 1961, “Gott (=gottlichen Wesens) war das Wort” [God (=godlike Being/being) was the Word/word]; (43)Haenehen, 1980, “Gott (von Art) war der Logos” [God (of Kind/kind) was the Logos/logos]; (44) Die Bibel in heutigem Deutsch, 1982, “Er war bei Gott und in allem Gottgleich” [He was with God and in all like God]; (45) Schultz, 1987, “ein Gott (oder: Gott von art) war das Wort” [a God/god (or: God/god of King/kind) was the Word/word]. (47) William Temple, Archbishop of York, 1933, “And the Word was divine”; (48) John Crellius, Latin form of German, 1631, “the Word of Speech was a God”; (49) Greek Orthodox/ Arabic translation, 1983, “the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god”; (50) Ervin Edward Stringfellow(Prof. of NT Language and Literature/Drake University), 1943, “And the Word was Divine”; (51) Robert Harvey, D. D., 1931 “and the Logos was divine (a divine being).”
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:06am On Feb 27, 2016
Except for Die Bibel in heutigem Deutsch and Schultz in 1987, the rest seem to support the Sahidic Coptic reading and we may also pick up on a rather interesting translation above that is given by the Greek Orthodox Church in their Arabic Bible which renders John 1:1 as “the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god.” Apart from refuting the falsehood that Allah is a foreign deity that is disdained by Christians (they proclaim God as ALLAH in this translation), the verse gives credence to the Sahidic Coptic translation. Should it have thought the word to be co-equal with the Father, it would surely have identified the word” as being “God” with a capital “G” which it does not.
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:06am On Feb 27, 2016
.The rendering “and the word was a god” finds safe harbour in Archbishop Newcome’s translation and commentary of the New Testament indicating the great probative value that this rendering continue to hold throughout the ages.“THE WORD was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.”[7]Commenting on the third section of John 1, i.e., John 1:1c, he writes:” and the Word was a god.] “was God,” Newcome. Jesus received a commission as a prophet of the Most High, and was invested withextraordinary miraculous powers. But in the Jewish phraseology they were called gods to whom the word of God came. John x. 35. So Moses is declared to be a god to Pharaoh. Exod.vii. 1. Some translate the passage, God was the Word. q. d. it was not so properly be that spake to men as God that spake to them by him. Cappe, ibid. See John x. 30, compared with xvii. 8, 11, 16; iii. 34; v. 23; xii. 44. Crellius conjecturedthat the true rendering was, the Word was God’s,q.d. the first teacher of the gospel derived his commission from God. But this conjecture, however plausible, rests upon no authority.”
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:07am On Feb 27, 2016
Newcome cites Crellius (even though what he opines here according to Newcome relies on noauthority) who interpreted and understood John 1:1c as saying “the Word” belongs to God, i.e., “the Word was God’s”. This would most certainlyrest squarely within the Islamic framework, i.e., ultimately everything belongs to God, but since itis only Crellius’ conjecture, we may simply leave it aside for a moment as an interesting trinket and hang it as a decorative mantelpiece that comes from a non-Christian, extra-Qur’anic source that coincidentally gives credence to what Islam believes.In Newcome’s understanding of John 1:1, Jesusplays the role of God’s representative, his spokesperson. As a close or intimate ambassador and mouthpiece of God, He revealed Himself by Jesus (“Jesus is so called because God revealed himself or his word by him.”; take note of the preposition which may seem minor, but it does in fact impart a meaningthat is significantly different than if it were “God revealed himself or his word IN him”[9]). Newcome does not see John 1:1c as the word being labelled with the exact same epithet as the Father, therefore, making him co-equal and co-eternal as the Father. Instead, he sees this asJohn’s belief that Jesus is God’s messenger, butbecause of his supreme position as God’s instrument, he is bestowed the divine title “god” just as Moses is given the exact title in Exodus 7:1.
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:08am On Feb 27, 2016
When John 1:1c is rendered as “a god”, it loses the intensity that is exuded by “God” with a capital “G”, which seems to excite Trinitarians so much, with which they would proclaim the divinity of Jesus. Once John 1:1c is translated inthe indefinite form, theos loses its traction as a proof text for deifying Jesus and he now seems more like an agent (a Shaliach), acting on behalfof God just like Moses in Exodus 7:1.In close, we refer to the ancient Vatican manuscripts, in its literal rendering by the scholar Herman Heinfetter, which reveals how profoundly the “orthodox” rendering of John 1:1 has departed from true monotheism.“In commencing this Dispensation, the command was existing, i.e., had been spoken, yet the command was with the God, he having to fulfil it, as a God the command was, i.e., had relation to, this God was existing in commencingthis Dispensation with the God,” (John 1:1-2)Commenting on the “logos” which he translates as “the command” Heinfetter writes,
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:08am On Feb 27, 2016
“In vindication of my Translation of this verse, I would inquire. 1st. What Rule, Usage, or Customary Form of Exprssion, does it Ttransgress? 2nd. What better Form of Greek could be employed to express the Sense that I have given, than that which is in the original. 3rd.In relation to the Sense this verse is commonly regarded to afford, I would inquire, Where is there any authority for a Word preceded by the Article in the commencement of a record, without any explicit Definition, being regarded asan Appellation of an Individual, when such Word is not only, not previously well known as an acknowledged Appellation of the Individual, but is, on no other occasion, ever applied as an Appellation of the Individual. To admit such to be the casem is to admit the Article is a nullity. Rev. xix. 13, Is not the same Appellation. It is not, And his name is called the word, but, And hisname is called the word of God. To say nothing of its having been written, 28 years afterwards
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:09am On Feb 27, 2016
Commenting on his choice translation “A God”, he writes:
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:14am On Feb 27, 2016
“A God. Was this used as an Appellation of Almighty God, the Article would certainly have been expressed before it; its omission therefore determines, that it must be used as an Appellation of some other, and this other, I judge from the context to be what I have expressed in the paraphrase. I judge my view to be somewhat strengthened by the 2nd verse, which would otherwise be mere repetition of the 3rd Clause of the first verse.”
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:14am On Feb 27, 2016
Fear not, I shall try to break down the technicalities that may have blurred your readingof Heinfetter’s translation and interpretation above. In a nutshell, Heinfetter posits that since there is no indication that the word should be described as “the God” or one that shares equal power and majesty with the Father, it is only suitable and fitting that he interprets this “word” as being “a god” with a small “G” whose role was that of God’s “command.” Since the appellation (a god) is without the definite article that is given to the Father, in John 1:1b (ton theon), therefore, it is only fitting that this being, if it is a being, be stripped of the reverence that one would afford the Being in John 1:1b. In short, Heinfetter, rebukes the Trinitarian view that the “word” should be seen as the person “Jesus Christ” or as the “Son of God” who is supposedly “God” in this instance. He is in concert with Colin Brown and Anthony Buzzard after him in the view that Jesus was God’s “grand design” or His “plan” and as such he may correctly be designated the small “g”, “god” just as his brother prophet Moses was designated with in Exodus 7:1.
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by DeathStroke007(m): 8:15am On Feb 27, 2016
And finally, let us closely consider the latest translation of John 1:1 by the able scholar of theGreek language and New Testament theologian,SirAnthony F. Buzzard:“In the beginning there was God’s grand design, and that declaration was with God, related to Him as His project, and it was fully expressive ofGod Himself.”[12]In sum, we should not put Jesus on the same pedestal of divinity with the Father as he does not belong there. To place Jesus on equal footing with the Father is to create a usurper to the Divine Throne and Jesus is no usurper. Nor is he an upstart of any kind. He has ever been and shall ever be God’s supreme messenger that walked humbly in God’s shadow and adhered to every letter of His command as an obedient servant, even unto death (after his second coming).
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by Nobody: 8:25am On Feb 27, 2016
Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory - the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.
John 1:14

read ur bible before posting rubbish
Re: Truth About John 1:1 by Scholar8200(m): 1:33pm On Feb 27, 2016
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelations 19:13,14

Op, your source over laboured itself on just one verse and panel beated it beyond recognition! In so doing, a basic principle of Bible study was broken thus rendering your efforts (or the author's) void ab initio! Here, The Word is clearly shown as a Real Person, not some grand design!

In case you will claim this is a metaphor, the prophesy being fulfilled here dates back to the OT:

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zechariah 14:5

(1) (Reply)

Photos:pastor Climbs On Church Members Makes Them Eat Carpet / Malawi President Comes For T.B Joshua, Calls Him A Liar And A Fake / How Often Have You Doubted Your Beliefs ?

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 38
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.