Let's check further, this time around, we will be journeying down to John 1: 18 it reads: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Now what does this mean?
Which other God is John talking about? Who declared God?
Have people not seen God?
What's incorrect about Kjv rendering here?

*Note, if the holy spirit would make us understand something, it should be in line what's written in the Holy Book and not totally out of it.

Cc: Marv650, unitysheart, and all.

Op it seems as if you are confuse but in your confusion do not alter the word of God. Thank u

solite3:
Op it seems as if you are confuse but in your confusion do not alter the word of God. Thank u

How? There must certainly be a reason for saying this, bro.
I seek for clarification!

For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,...
Isaiah 9:6

There you have it, straight from the Father! The Son spoken of in John 1:18 is here called the Mighty God by the Father Himself!

tempem:
Let's check further, this time around, we will be journeying down to John 1: 18 it reads: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Now what does this mean?
Which other God is John talking about? Who declared God?
Have people not seen God?
What's incorrect about Kjv rendering here?

*Note, if the holy spirit would make us understand something, it should be in line what's written in the Holy Book and not totally out of it.

Scholar8200:

For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,...
Isaiah 9:6

There you have it, straight from the Father! The Son spoken of in John 1:18 is here called the Mighty God by the Father Himself!

Haven't people seen God( Jesus)?

The Bible says God created man in his own image! How did God create Man? He created him a trinity, i.e Spirit, Soul and Body. Because God created us in his Image, God was already a Trinity. But his own model of trinity is Father, Son and the Spirit. Jesus has been existing from the beginning of time and that was what John was saying and because Jesus is God the Son that means he's also God. As a human being, you are more than mere flesh there's a spirit and a soul, Jesus is God but also there's a God the Father too that is separate from God and there's a Holy Spirit that is separate from The Father and Jesus.

dayowunmi:
The Bible says God created man in his own image! How did God create Man? He created him a trinity, i.e Spirit, Soul and Body. Because God created us in his Image, God was already a Trinity But his own model of trinity is Father, Son and the Spirit. Jesus has been existing from the beginning of time and that was what John was saying and because Jesus is God the Son that means he's also God. As a human being, you are more than mere flesh there's a spirit and a soul, Jesus is God but also there's a God the Father too that is separate from God and there's a Holy Spirit that is separate from The Father and Jesus.

Any part of the scripture to support the bolded?
Thanks in advance, bro.

tempem:
Let's check further, this time around, we will be journeying down to John 1: 18 it reads: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Now what does this mean?
Which other God is John talking about? Who declared God?
Have people not seen God?
What's incorrect about Kjv rendering here?

*Note, if the holy spirit would make us understand something, it should be in line what's written in the Holy Book and not totally out of it.

Cc: Marv650, unitysheart, and all.

It is good that you said that you're a bible student, hence you admitted that you are still learning the truths of the Bible.

In Hebrews 1:1-14, you will read what God Almighty said about Jesus, His Son. Of specific reference for your question is verses 8-11:

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

You can see that there is no contradiction whatsoever with the fact that Jesus is God, as established in John 1:1.

Cross-reference this with the Divine proclamation at the Transfiguration: This is my well-beloved Son!

God can only give birth to none other than God.

The hatred of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law flowed from the fact that the Son called God His Father, meaning that He made Himself to be same with God. they actually understood it more than contemporaries railers, but what was hidden from them is the light of the truth that how can God walk among men.

There are several other examples which you will come across if you diligently give yourself to serious study, and if you are indeed sincere in learning the truth, and not working with an already set position in your mind, which will lead to greater confusion.

tempem:
Any part of the scripture to support the bolded? Thanks in advance, bro.

None of the quoted text was bolded. Part do you need scriptural backing on?

tempem:

Haven't people seen God( Jesus)?

I believe you speak in reference to the highlighted below

tempem:
Let's check further, this time around, we will be journeying down to John 1: 18 it reads: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Now what does this mean?
Which other God is John talking about? Who declared God?
Have people not seen God?
What's incorrect about Kjv rendering here?

*Note, if the holy spirit would make us understand something, it should be in line what's written in the Holy Book and not totally out of it.

Well the passage makes it clear that The So has revealed the Father!Reference to John 14:9,10

Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the ([a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).

mojeer678:


It is good that you said that you're a bible student, hence you admitted that you are still learning the truths of the Bible.

In Hebrews 1:1-14, you will read what God Almighty said about Jesus, His Son. Of specific reference for your question is verses 8-11:

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;



You can see that there is no contradiction whatsoever with the fact that Jesus is God, as established in John 1:1.

Cross-reference this with the Divine proclamation at the Transfiguration: This is my well-beloved Son!

God can only give birth to none other than God.

The hatred of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law flowed from the fact that the Son called God His Father, meaning that He made Himself to be same with God. they actually understood it more than contemporaries railers, but what was hidden from them is the light of the truth that how can God walk among men.

There are several other examples which you will come across if you diligently give yourself to serious study, and if you are indeed sincere in learning the truth, and not working with an already set position in your mind, which will lead to greater confusion.

I laughed when I read your explanation. You said Tempem should study the holy bible more so as to get more accurate knowledge of verses in the bible. That is a very good advise. I only hop that you also would study the bible more to understand what message is being passed down.

First and foremost, Apostle Paul was only quoting what was said in another verse of the bible in Hebrews 1:8 and down. For you to fully understand the context he was using the quotes, it would be nice you proceed to Psalm 45 verse 1 downward. You would notice that the verse where God was referred to in the book was to exalt God in relation to his throne and the king who would rule on that throne. That same throne is the one referred to as the Throne of Judah in other verses of the bible. There were other kings that sat on the throne of Judah, notable among whom is King David. Will David then also be referred to as "God"? That question is very pertinent because David was also promised that someone from his lineage will always occupy the throne of Judah for as long as the throne is allowed to exist and that also, the whole world would be blessed through someone from his lineage.

Let me conclude by saying that, the Hebrews 1:8 to 11 never conferred the title of GOD on Jesus Christ.

Cc: Marv650, unitysheart, and all.

tempem:

How? There must certainly be a reason for saying this, bro.
I seek for clarification!

u are trying to understand heavenly things in earthly way, it doesn't work that way, so John 1:1 according to KJV is very correct. The word is God! There is no contradiction in the bible you don't just understand simple only those with the holy spirit can relate to it.

unitysheart:


I laughed when I read your explanation. You said Tempem should study the holy bible more so as to get more accurate knowledge of verses in the bible. That is a very good advise. I only hop that you also would study the bible more to understand what message is being passed down.

First and foremost, Apostle Paul was only quoting what was said in another verse of the bible in Hebrews 1:8 and down. For you to fully understand the context he was using the quotes, it would be nice you proceed to Psalm 45 verse 1 downward. You would notice that the verse where God was referred to in the book was to exalt God in relation to his throne and the king who would rule on that throne. That same throne is the one referred to as the Throne of Judah in other verses of the bible. There were other kings that sat on the throne of Judah, notable among whom is King David. Will David then also be referred to as "God"? That question is very pertinent because David was also promised that someone from his lineage will always occupy the throne of Judah for as long as the throne is allowed to exist and that also, the whole world would be blessed through someone from his lineage.

Let me conclude by saying that, the Hebrews 1:8 to 11 never conferred the title of GOD on Jesus Christ.

Cc: Marv650, unitysheart, and all.

.

unitysheart:


I laughed when I read your explanation. You said Tempem should study the holy bible more so as to get more accurate knowledge of verses in the bible. That is a very good advise. I only hop that you also would study the bible more to understand what message is being passed down.

First and foremost, Apostle Paul was only quoting what was said in another verse of the bible in Hebrews 1:8 and down. For you to fully understand the context he was using the quotes, it would be nice you proceed to Psalm 45 verse 1 downward. You would notice that the verse where God was referred to in the book was to exalt God in relation to his throne and the king who would rule on that throne. That same throne is the one referred to as the Throne of Judah in other verses of the bible. There were other kings that sat on the throne of Judah, notable among whom is King David. Will David then also be referred to as "God"? That question is very pertinent because David was also promised that someone from his lineage will always occupy the throne of Judah for as long as the throne is allowed to exist and that also, the whole world would be blessed through someone from his lineage.

Let me conclude by saying that, the Hebrews 1:8 to 11 never conferred the title of GOD on Jesus Christ.

Cc: Marv650, unitysheart, and all.

Yes, Jesus is God. And Hebrews 1:8 is directly referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. I wonder whether you actually read what I wrote. Psalm 45, Proverbs 8, Isaiah 44 and various others established beyond doubt that the Son created the world. I know it is mind-blowing but what else do you expect from the Author of Life?

Maybe this excerpt will assist you:


First, Heb. 1:8 is a quote from Psalm 45:6, which says,

"Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy Kingdom" (All Bible quotes are from the NASB).

In fact, the ASV, KJV, NIV, and NKJV all translated it as "Your throne, O God . . . " The RSV translates it as "Your divine throne endures for ever and ever," "but this is a highly unlikely translation because it requires understanding the Hebrew noun for "throne" in construct state, something extremely unusual when a noun has a pronomial suffix, as this one does . . . The KJV, NIV, and NASB all take the verse in its plain, straightforward sense, as do the ancient translations . . . "1

When we look at the Hebrew, we see that there is no grammatical requirement for this translation though it is considered to be the best translation by most translators. In and of itself, this is not conclusive because the context of this verse in Psalm 45 is dealing with a king which would make one wonder why he would be addressed as God; but, it is not uncommon for NT writers to take a verse in the OT that seemingly deals with one subject and apply it to another. They knew something we didn't. In fact, in Ezekiel 28:12-17 is a section that deals with the fall of the devil. Verse 13 describes how he was in the garden of Eden. Verse 14 says he was the anointed cherub, (v. 15), etc., but the context of this section begins with an address to the king of Tyre (v. 12). Yet, right after Ezekiel is told to write to the King of Tyre, he then goes on to describe what the great majority of theologians agree with--a description of the devil's fall. So, we need to look at the context into which the writer of Hebrews put Psalm 45:6. He addressed it to Jesus. Therefore, Psalm 45 is a Messianic Psalm and must in interpreted in light of the NT not the other way around.

Nevertheless, the context of this verse follows:

"For to which of the angels did He ever say, "Thou are My son, Today I have begotten Thee"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him, and He shall be a Son to Me"? 6And when he again brings the first-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." 7And of the angels He says "Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire." 8But of the Son He says, "Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom, 9Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy companions. 10And, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands; 11They will perish, but though remainest . . . " (Heb. 1:5-11).

To say "God is your throne" doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say, "But to which of the angels did he say, God is your throne." What would that mean? Is God, Jesus' throne? God alone is on His throne, and He isn't a throne for anyone else.

Also worth noting here is verse 10: "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands . . . " This is a quote from Psalm 102:24-25 which says, "I say, 'O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days, Thy years are throughout all generations. 25Of old Thou didst found the earth; And the heavens are the work of Thy hands.'" Clearly, God is the one being addressed in Psalm 102. It is God who laid the foundations of the earth. Yet, in Heb. 1:10, Jesus is called 'Lord' and is said to be the one who laid the foundation of the earth. This becomes even more interesting when we note that in Isaiah 44:24 it says, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone." If God was laying the foundations of the earth alone, that would mean that either Jesus has to be God, second person of the trinity, who laid the foundation the same as YHWH did; or we have a contradiction in the Bible. Clearly this section of Hebrews is proclaiming that Jesus is God. Therefore, contextually, it is best to translate Heb. 1:8 as, "Thy Throne, O God. . ." and the Father call Jesus God.

Source: https://carm.org/heb-18-and-psalm-456-god-thy-throne

solite3:
u are trying to understand heavenly things in earthly way, it doesn't work that way, so John 1:1 according to KJV is very correct. The word is God! There is no contradiction in the bible you don't just understand simple only those with the holy spirit can relate to it.

That's exactly what am trying to avoid. Should the holy spirit reveal something outrightly different from what's written in the holy book?

tempem:

That's exactly what am trying to avoid. Should the holy spirit reveal something outrightly different from what's written in the holy book?

I believe we are all being sincere here, otherwise it would add no value if a seemingly simple request for an outright answer is actually an agenda for an already held error.

No true student of the Bible, such as the way you initially described yourself would assert such an error as you postulated above.

There is no contradiction in the Word of God and those who search for same are deluding themselves for 'the Word of God' is madness to those who are perishing, but to those of us who are saved, it's the power of God!

Now, as I stated earlier, there's no contradiction in God's word and if there should be any subsequent 'revelation' contrary to what has been written, then it's obvious where that 'revelation' is coming from for God is not the author of confusion.

Colossians put it more clearly:

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.


Hebrews 1:8-9 was from the Greek Version (The Sepuagint) of Psalm 45:6-7 where the person being originally addressed as is a human king ruling over God's people.

Hebrews 1:3 reveals that Jesus is the exact copy of God's being (ὑπόστασις).Thus, he is of same being with God.

ὃς ὢν ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης καὶ χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ (Hebrews 1:3 Westcott and Hort 1881)

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature. Hebrews 1:3 (ESV)

On the other hand, we read in the same chapter that the angels are God's creatures "made from fire" (v. 7) while Jesus is God's son "begotten from him" (v. 5). Therefore, Christ and the angels do not possess the same nature.

Jesus , being in very nature God, is called God by God himself.

πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, καὶ ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς εὐθύτητος ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ Hebrews 1:8.Westcott and Hort 1881)

But to the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. You rule with a scepter of justice. (Hebrews 1:8 NLT)

Hebrews 1:8 is calling Jesus ὁ θεὸς (God) in the strictest sense of the word based on his ontological oneness with the Father.

If after all of the the above, you still persist in your path of seeing contradictions where none exist, then I will simply commend you into His love.

Thank you.

see good meat here and I was busy clicking one thread like that on monitor lizard pepper soup... smh for myself.

(translated from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate)
1808 "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of
Archbishop Newcome ’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text , London.
1822 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
1829 "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
1863 "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation Of The New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
1864 "the LOGOS was God, This was in the Beginning with God" – A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
1864 "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
1867 "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
1879 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885 "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible ( R. Young, 1885)
1911 "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
1935 "and the Word was divine" – The Bible — An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955 "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield , Aberdeen.
1956 "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation [15]
1958 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1962, 1979 "'the word was God.' Or, more literally, 'God was the word.'" – The Four Gospels and the Revelation (R. Lattimore, 1979)
1966, 2001 "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible
1970, 1989 "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible
1975 " and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word " – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978 "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
1993 "The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one." - The Message , by Eugene H. Peterson .

mojeer678:


Yes, Jesus is God. And Hebrews 1:8 is directly referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. I wonder whether you actually read what I wrote. Psalm 45, Proverbs 8, Isaiah 44 and various others established beyond doubt that the Son created the world. I know it is mind-blowing but what else do you expect from the Author of Life?

Maybe this excerpt will assist you:


First, Heb. 1:8 is a quote from Psalm 45:6, which says,

"Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy Kingdom" (All Bible quotes are from the NASB).

In fact, the ASV, KJV, NIV, and NKJV all translated it as "Your throne, O God . . . " The RSV translates it as "Your divine throne endures for ever and ever," "but this is a highly unlikely translation because it requires understanding the Hebrew noun for "throne" in construct state, something extremely unusual when a noun has a pronomial suffix, as this one does . . . The KJV, NIV, and NASB all take the verse in its plain, straightforward sense, as do the ancient translations . . . "1

When we look at the Hebrew, we see that there is no grammatical requirement for this translation though it is considered to be the best translation by most translators. In and of itself, this is not conclusive because the context of this verse in Psalm 45 is dealing with a king which would make one wonder why he would be addressed as God; but, it is not uncommon for NT writers to take a verse in the OT that seemingly deals with one subject and apply it to another. They knew something we didn't. In fact, in Ezekiel 28:12-17 is a section that deals with the fall of the devil. Verse 13 describes how he was in the garden of Eden. Verse 14 says he was the anointed cherub, (v. 15), etc., but the context of this section begins with an address to the king of Tyre (v. 12). Yet, right after Ezekiel is told to write to the King of Tyre, he then goes on to describe what the great majority of theologians agree with--a description of the devil's fall. So, we need to look at the context into which the writer of Hebrews put Psalm 45:6. He addressed it to Jesus. Therefore, Psalm 45 is a Messianic Psalm and must in interpreted in light of the NT not the other way around.

Nevertheless, the context of this verse follows:

"For to which of the angels did He ever say, "Thou are My son, Today I have begotten Thee"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him, and He shall be a Son to Me"? 6And when he again brings the first-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." 7And of the angels He says "Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire." 8But of the Son He says, "Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom, 9Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy companions. 10And, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands; 11They will perish, but though remainest . . . " (Heb. 1:5-11).

To say "God is your throne" doesn't make sense. What does it mean to say, "But to which of the angels did he say, God is your throne." What would that mean? Is God, Jesus' throne? God alone is on His throne, and He isn't a throne for anyone else.

Also worth noting here is verse 10: "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands . . . " This is a quote from Psalm 102:24-25 which says, "I say, 'O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days, Thy years are throughout all generations. 25Of old Thou didst found the earth; And the heavens are the work of Thy hands.'" Clearly, God is the one being addressed in Psalm 102. It is God who laid the foundations of the earth. Yet, in Heb. 1:10, Jesus is called 'Lord' and is said to be the one who laid the foundation of the earth. This becomes even more interesting when we note that in Isaiah 44:24 it says, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone." If God was laying the foundations of the earth alone, that would mean that either Jesus has to be God, second person of the trinity, who laid the foundation the same as YHWH did; or we have a contradiction in the Bible. Clearly this section of Hebrews is proclaiming that Jesus is God. Therefore, contextually, it is best to translate Heb. 1:8 as, "Thy Throne, O God. . ." and the Father call Jesus God.

Source: https://carm.org/heb-18-and-psalm-456-god-thy-throne

Maybe you will do well to answer the following questions?

WHY dis Jesus rebuke the man that called him Good Teacher in Mark 10:17-18?

Who was Jesus referring to in John 17:3 as the only true God?

Who was Jesus referring to in John 20:17 as the father he has not yet ascended to?

Toward the end of his Gospel, John summarized matters, saying: “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, [not God, but] the Son of God.”— , RS. Why did he not directly mention Jesus as God here?

I have further questions to ask you but I will keep them for now.

cc: Tempem

joyandfaith:
(translated from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate)
1808 "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of
Archbishop Newcome ’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text , London.
1822 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
1829 "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
1863 "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation Of The New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
1864 "the LOGOS was God, This was in the Beginning with God" – A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
1864 "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
1867 "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
1879 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885 "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible ( R. Young, 1885)
1911 "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
1935 "and the Word was divine" – The Bible — An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955 "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield , Aberdeen.
1956 "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation [15]
1958 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1962, 1979 "'the word was God.' Or, more literally, 'God was the word.'" – The Four Gospels and the Revelation (R. Lattimore, 1979)
1966, 2001 "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible
1970, 1989 "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible
1975 " and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word " – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978 "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
1993 "The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one." - The Message , by Eugene H. Peterson .

I noticed that "god" and not "God" mostly appeared in your write up. Could it be that some translators specifically stopped using god and replaced it with God to push their idea of Jesus being equal to God far?

tempem:

That's exactly what am trying to avoid. Should the holy spirit reveal something outrightly different from what's written in the holy book?

what are you saying? The Spirit of God reveals the deep things of God, without him you can not understand God's word however you try, that's because the word of God is spiritually discerned. 'The WORD was God' as written by saint John is in total agreement with other verses of the bible. Isaiah 9:6 clearly stated that the one to be born is called THE MIGHTY GOD.

joyandfaith:
(translated from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate)
1808 "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of
Archbishop Newcome ’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text , London.
1822 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
1829 "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
1863 "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation Of The New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
1864 "the LOGOS was God, This was in the Beginning with God" – A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
1864 "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
1867 "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
1879 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885 "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible ( R. Young, 1885)
1911 "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
1935 "and the Word was divine" – The Bible — An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955 "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield , Aberdeen.
1956 "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation [15]
1958 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1962, 1979 "'the word was God.' Or, more literally, 'God was the word.'" – The Four Gospels and the Revelation (R. Lattimore, 1979)
1966, 2001 "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible
1970, 1989 "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible
1975 " and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word " – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978 "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
1993 "The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one." - The Message , by Eugene H. Peterson .

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God,...
Isaiah 9:6

This verse alone refutes all those 'translations' that renders it as god!

solite3:
what are you saying? The Spirit of God reveals the deep things of God, without him you can not understand God's word however you try, that's because the word of God is spiritually discerned. 'The WORD was God' as written by saint John is in total agreement with other verses of the bible. Isaiah 9:6 clearly stated that the one to be born is called THE MIGHTY GOD.

Clear, Jesus is called mighty God, thanks for that.

But don't forget my initial question.
Who explained God? Jesus?
If we had seen Jesus, that means there is the true God we haven't seen which Jesus explained.
Then since Jesus is God, does he need to explain another God superior than him?

Scholar8200:

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God,...
Isaiah 9:6

This verse alone refutes all those 'translations' that renders it as god!

Forgotten this?
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Have people seen God?
Have people seen Jesus?
Be exact, thanks.

unitysheart:


I noticed that "god" and not "God" mostly appeared in your write up. Could it be that some translators specifically stopped using god and replaced it with God to push their idea of Jesus being equal to God far?

Noted, bro.
Maybe Scholar8200 will check this below.
The use of "God" in John 1:1, don't you think it doesn't harmonize with John 1:18?
Read it carefully.

Then if "god" was used, don't you think that sure fits in what's in John 1:18?

Cc: Scholar8200.

tempem:

Noted, bro.
Maybe Scholar8200 will check this below.
The use of "God" in John 1:1, don't you think it doesn't harmonize with John 1:18?
Read it carefully.

Then if "god" was used, don't you think that sure fits in what's in John 1:18?

Cc: Scholar8200.

The use of God fits in in John 1:18! Just as the usage in Isaiah 9:6 agrees with both in John 1:1,18. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word was with God not as a lesser god but as Proverbs 8 puts it:

then I was by him{John 1:1 recalls}, as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Proverbs 8:30

This expresses Oneness and Unity.

Note that clause here as it denotes equality:
Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul
Acts 13:1

Vs 18 exposes the relationship between the Word and God viz Father and Son.

Jesus expresses all of the above (not as an errand god to reveal God) but in tandem with the tenor of the above:

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them
John 17:5,10

HE didnt say the glory I had FROM Thee but WITH Thee! Besides, vs 10 underscores the preceding verses that shows the Unity and Oneness.

Scholar8200:
The use of God fits in in John 1:18! Just as the usage in Isaiah 9:6 agrees with both in John 1:1,18. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word was with God not as a lesser god but as Proverbs 8 puts it:

then I was by him{John 1:1 recalls}, as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Proverbs 8:30

This expresses Oneness and Unity.

Note that clause here as it denotes equality:
Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul
Acts 13:1

Vs 18 exposes the relationship between the Word and God viz Father and Son.

Jesus expresses all of the above (not as an errand god to reveal God) but in tandem with the tenor of the above:

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them
John 17:5,10

HE didnt say the glory I had FROM Thee but WITH Thee! Besides, vs 10 underscores the preceding verses that shows the Unity and Oneness.

Am not disputing the fact that Jesus is being referred to as a mighty God.
At least, there are many Lords and God, but there should be one true God.
But what am concerned about is this,
Is Jesus the only true God?

tempem:

Am not disputing the fact that Jesus is being referred to as a mighty God.
At least, there are many Lords and God, but there should be one true God.

And how many of them did God approve of like He did in Isaiah 9:6?

But what am concerned about is this,
Is Jesus the only true God?

Your answer is in John 1:1,18.

Scholar8200:
And how many of them did God approve of like He did in Isaiah 9:6?

Okay, fine!

Your answer is in John 1:1,18.

That place, says Of "God" and "Jesus". And that shows that Jesus isn't the true God, but he came to declare the true God we can't see, right?

[quote author=tempem post=47688735]
Clear, Jesus is called mighty God, thanks for that.

But don't forget my initial question.
Who explained God? Jesus?
If we had seen Jesus, that means there is the true God we haven't seen which Jesus explained.
Then since Jesus is God, does he need to explain another God superior than him?

Jesus is the manifestation of the true God in the flesh
Jesus said If you have seen me you have seen the father.
Jesus is The word of God, he is the only one who can make God known.
No angel or man can manifest God perfectly because they are creatures only God can manifest God perfectly.
For example only a force of 4N can lift a weight of 4N
So Jesus must be God to be able to explain God perfectly.check out Jesus words in john 10:30 I and my father are one.
Jesus did not come to explain another God but the father. Jesus and his father are in essence one indivisible and inseparable God.