misplaced priority.

MadCow1:



Stay focused.. What happened in a government meeting is non of my concern and as we speak, neither party has confirmed it. So I will not waste my time speaking on rumours.

Let's focus on this law cos that is a sure thing.. A perceived attack is not the same thing as an actual attack. From all the restrictions contained in the bill, the Muslims should be wailing the loudest as they seem to use more Public Address systems in the dissemination of their message and call for prayers than Christians do. In Kaduna, the population of Muslims outnumber that of Christians as well.. Yet, we barely hear the Muslims shouting, kicking, screaming and placing curses..

Again you lie when you say Boko Haram started attacking Christians before Muslims. Boko Haram started attacking Muslims and Government targets first before they ever touched a church. But Christians wailed the loudest and made more fuss than every other religion affected by their attacks.

Thank u for being rational bro, I gbadu ur contribution

sweetgala:


You lost me in the second paragraph, like el rufai clearly stated any time someone brings religion into the equation as a means of attacking another individual it is a clear sign they have no principle of their own and losing the argument.

In the absence of any proof why did you label El Rufai a bigot. It is a wicked, dishonest and ridiculous thing to say. I don't even have to think hard to know the kind of person you are.

Goodnight

First and foremost, this is El rufai's Proposal to regulate religion that is been debated for its rationality and relevance its not a matter of bringing religion into it or not. Its looking at the proposal and making informed statements on its true aim. El rufai antecedents shows that he is a bigot, I need not delve in to bring facts because most folks know this. Nevertheless, if my submission offends you, that my opinion based in facts.

Good night.

eazysally:
The bill have been their since 1984 and he knows kaduna is religiously volatile while is he revisiting an issue that is already enacted when he suppose to be acting on it, he should have let sleeping dogs lie. the initial public outcry on the bill emanated from his state else u and I who reside outside the state including prophet suleman wouldn't have bother. This shows it has an under tune agender targeted at a particular religion.

hey,1984 will b lik 31years ago and yes d bill has been their since but u cnt just start acting on a bill lik it has been in practice in d state b4.get d fact,d bill has been their but nt been pratice so as a good leader u cnt just start without d knowledge of dos u govern on

omonnakoda:
I am not in the business of opinions. I don't know what Christianity or all of it is about. What I do know is what the Nigerian constitutions says.No religion shall be adopted. That means that ALL religions and atheism should be treated EQUALLY
The constitution does not permit government to get involved in the syllabus of any religion
Government cannot derecognize any religions. This bill appears to empower government to do so. It assumes that there will be no new religions
government has no mandate to pronounce on what Chritianity is or is not and the constitution allow anyone to modify existing religions or start new ones

Going around in circles, aren't you, dear man. For one, the bill isn't singling out any particular religion. It applies to all religions so, based on that, they are still being treated equally.

Second, the bill isn't derecognizing any religion. If you think it is, I would like you to point out the relevant sections where religions are outlawed.

Third, like someone above posted, it's not the government that will be doing the regulation. The governor clearly stated that, in the cases of the two more popular religions in Nigeria, their umbrella bodies will be the ones doing the work. Should adherents of other religions be affected, they can setup their own government recognized umbrella bodies that will also regulate for them. It's like the government granting the Nigerian Society Of Engineers and similar bodies the right to license who does and doesn't practice engineering. The government knows it's not in the business of engineering, so instead, it hands that responsibility to those that are and have formed recognized bodies and organizations to act as representatives of their specific fields. Is this really too difficult to grab?

sweetgala:


Yh obviously did not read the OP from El Rufai because if you did you wouldn't claim how would the government vet who is right or wrong.

The answer is simple the government wouldn't , it has setup two parallel bodies obviously comprised of registered CAN members and qualified priests and Imams recognised by the paramount bodies in the nation who have a duty to issue and withdraw a licence to any preacher as is required, based on principles as defined by faith.

Nigeria is a secular state however the FG only recognises two religions in official capacity and that is Christianity and Islam. We don't need to complicate things, the law is a good thing and should be supported.

It puts an end to the nuisance in Nigeria.

My brother, epp me explain it to them biko

bezimo:


Whatever alleged atrocities these so called pastors commited do not represent the behaviour of majority of Pastors in the christian faith, besides these are mere allegations which has not been proven to be true. If the Pastors truly committed a crime, has a competent court deemed them guilty, I doubt that. Besides I didnt see how I could have been scammed by what you posted.

Besides a Pastor, just like other folks, are not immune from commiting a crime, because they are humans, that's why we have criminal laws to address such issue in a competent court of law.

Oh, so apparently, all the Muslim religious leaders preach discord and strife and ask their followers to kill non-adherents, right? Because that is what you are clearly implying. You have never been in a mosque or listened to an imam preach but you "already know" he's preaching hatred, all from the comfort of your bedroom. Tell me how that mindset is not bigoted.

BTW, aren't there Muslims in the South West and the rest of the North were there isn't religious violence? How come they haven't been stirring up trouble if, by the implications of your statements, it's what Muslim leaders teach? Stop acting persecuted for the sake of pity. It's not christianly. And yes, I'm a Christian too.

bezimo:


First and foremost, this is El rufai's Proposal to regulate religion that is been debated for its rationality and relevance its not a matter of bringing religion into it or not. Its looking at the proposal and making informed statements on its true aim. El rufai antecedents shows that he is a bigot, I need not delve in to bring facts because most folks know this. Nevertheless, if my submission offends you, that my opinion based in facts.

Good night.

It's funny how you say your opinion is based on facts but, in the same sentence, refuse to delve into these "facts" that back it up. Earlier on you asked me to prove that some Christian religious leaders have used their exalted positions for nefarious activities. I obliged with links to several instances, and I'm willing to add more if those were not enough. Now you're stating that El Rufai is a religious bigot but, before anyone can ask you to prove it, you're running away from providing proof for such statements. That doesn't make your point in any way. If anything, it seriously weakens it by making you appear as someone who makes wild allegations but can't back them up.

senbonzakurakageyoshi:


Oh, so apparently, all the Muslim religious leaders preach discord and strife and ask their followers to kill non-adherents, right? Because that is what you are clearly implying. You have never been in a mosque or listened to an imam preach but you "already know" he's preaching hatred, all from the comfort of your bedroom. Tell me how that mindset is not bigoted.

BTW, aren't there Muslims in the South West and the rest of the North were there isn't religious violence? How come they haven't been stirring up trouble if, by the implications of your statements, it's what Muslim leaders teach? Stop acting persecuted for the sake of pity. It's not christianly. And yes, I'm a Christian too.

From a global perspective. Islam and its hateful preachings and religious extremism and offcourse the result ISIS, Boko Haram, Shites, and the likes.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/09/islam-is-a-religion-of-violence-ayaan-hirsi-ali-debate-islamic-state/


https://africanreporter./2014/05/21/the-emergence-of-boko-haram-from-religious-intolerance-to-religious-terrorism-in-nigeria-2/


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/07/france-deports-40-imams-for-hate-speech

http://pamelageller.com/2015/08/the-washingtonpost-laments-arrest-of-notorious-islamic-hate-preacher-anjem-choudary-attacks-sean-hannity-fox-news-and-pamela-geller.html/


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3425/islam-extremism


http://brighterbrains.org/articles/entry/boko-haram-and-the-threat-of-islamic-extremism-in-africa

There are so many articles detailing how flawed your argument is.I dont have your time, reacting to you with your flawed and irrational argument is condescending and unnecessary.

I remain resolute.Its Islam that needs to be regulated.

Besides you are not a christian, you are a fake maybe a muslim or traditionalist so go deceive yourself but certainly not me.

bezimo:


First and foremost, this is El rufai's Proposal to regulate religion that is been debated for its rationality and relevance its not a matter of bringing religion into it or not. Its looking at the proposal and making informed statements on its true aim. El rufai antecedents shows that he is a bigot, I need not delve in to bring facts because most folks know this. Nevertheless, if my submission offends you, that my opinion based in facts.

Good night.

It is obvious moat folks don't know this because it is based on crude assumptions because he has chosen to go down a road which many are uncomfortable with.

I'll date you place any proof, that el rufai is a bigot expanding on the reasoning that concluded this sad description. I know you have none but I'll entertain you

sweetgala:


It is obvious moat folks don't know this because it is based on crude assumptions because he has chosen to go down a road which many are uncomfortable with.

I'll date you place any proof, that el rufai is a bigot expanding on the reasoning that concluded this sad description. I know you have none but I'll entertain you

El rufia displaying his religious bigotry

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/01/can-blasts-el-rufai-over-alleged-comment-on-jesus-christ/


http://pointblanknews.com/pbn/press-releases/el-rufai-defiles-jesus-christ-on-twitter/


http://www.sharpedgenews.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1227:el-rufai-under-fire-for-blasphemous-tweet&Itemid=692

omonnakoda:
What is the Christian rite of the dead? How was Jesus buried. What we have is a cultural contamination being dressed up as religion whether in Islam or Christianity.In order to know what is culture and what is religion you must study the books deeply .
I repeat Islam is very similar to Judaism from which Christianity derives. We must not forget the bible teaches in the New Testament that women should cover their heads but now that is seen as an Islamic thing. by the same token we have such things as Chhristmas being passed off as "Christian"

They both teach people to be ready to die at any time and to always be prepared but we have added ou own culture to many things .I have never seen where in the bible it talks of spirit husbands and many of the things Nigerian churches teach

I'm sorry but the bible does not teach women to cover their hair.

omonnakoda:
That analogy is not valid because it presupposes that ANY religion is based on a comparable footing of rationality to medicine or that somehow Christianity and Islam have some proven VALIDITY.It is not the role of the state to arbitrate such philosophical uncertainty or to pretend that the questions are now "settled" . In others words it amounts to saying there will be no more Jesuses or no more Mohammeds and so on. What about atheists? Will they be allowed to preach? How do we determine which atheist "knows what he is doing"?.

In taking this step the state that is supposed to be "secular" is taking a stand and is no longer "NEUTRAL" We have no evidence that Jesus or Mohammed "knew what they were doing" and if I want to CREATE a NEW religion I should be allowed to. If I want to modify already existing religions again I should be allowed to. If the stated objective is to curtail hate speech then there is legislation in many places that can be looked at e.g. the UK that does not seek to get the state in any way involved in the "SYLLABUS" of any region

What bout traditional religions who will regulate them. The truth is that the objective of this bill is to empower the the Sultan and Emirs and establish Wahabbi doctrine as the CORRECT ISLAM in Nigeria

It is sad that most analysis is just superficial and fails to understand the constitutional implications

I don't think he is referring to the validity of each faith. Its more like behave like the Jehovah's witness. Don't use speakers and posters to kill us.

Masterpy1:
But let's examine the explanations giving by the governor; have we heard that the boko ppl preach for members? Have those volatile groups ever do public evengalization? How is stoping a public preaching going to stop secrete cult from operating? Pls reason !!!

Read it again,the boko people's leader was muhammed yusuf,he started by preaching....

bezimo:


El rufia displaying his religious bigotry

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/01/can-blasts-el-rufai-over-alleged-comment-on-jesus-christ/


http://pointblanknews.com/pbn/press-releases/el-rufai-defiles-jesus-christ-on-twitter/


http://www.sharpedgenews.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1227:el-rufai-under-fire-for-blasphemous-tweet&Itemid=692

You amuse me. All you could come up with was one tweet? Which was not even meant literally but Nigerians can like to over carry everything on their head. If you understand English language and passed your comprehension passages in primary and secondary school, you would know he was making a figurative statement. But because you want to close your mind and have something to rant about, it's suddenly bigoted. I can bet you have made statements like this before, not necessarily of religious figures but the point still remains that it's a figurative statement that's meant to drive home a point.

I'm disappointed. Was that all you could get? All three links you posted where on the same issue. It's like posting links to three different sites reporting that Chris Brown hit Rihanna and equating it to Chris Brown hitting Rihanna three different times. My brother, if you want to do this with me, you really must do better.

bezimo:


From a global perspective. Islam and its hateful preachings and religious extremism and offcourse the result ISIS, Boko Haram, Shites, and the likes.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/09/islam-is-a-religion-of-violence-ayaan-hirsi-ali-debate-islamic-state/


https://africanreporter./2014/05/21/the-emergence-of-boko-haram-from-religious-intolerance-to-religious-terrorism-in-nigeria-2/


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/07/france-deports-40-imams-for-hate-speech

http://pamelageller.com/2015/08/the-washingtonpost-laments-arrest-of-notorious-islamic-hate-preacher-anjem-choudary-attacks-sean-hannity-fox-news-and-pamela-geller.html/


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3425/islam-extremism


http://brighterbrains.org/articles/entry/boko-haram-and-the-threat-of-islamic-extremism-in-africa

There are so many articles detailing how flawed your argument is.I dont have your time, reacting to you with your flawed and irrational argument is condescending and unnecessary.

I remain resolute.Its Islam that needs to be regulated.

Besides you are not a christian, you are a fake maybe a muslim or traditionalist so go deceive yourself but certainly not me.

I'm amused. You have not made any valid points since you started posting on this thread. You really should try harder. So if I'm to take it as truth that Islam promotes extremism from the links you provided, how come you couldn't take it as truth that there a lot of charlatans and fraudsters masking as religious leaders and you predominantly find them in Christian religion.

And apparently, it's not just a Nigerian thing too.

Want me to provide more links? Or are you tired already?

Oh and because I choose to be a rational Christian that thinks with his God-given brain, you've decided I'm not a Christian. Clearly, you must be God, since you now determine who is a Christian and who isn't.

Maaaan, Nigerians need to stop feeling and start thinking.

AlanSugar:



This is in reference to who pls?

in reference to those who prefer to sit on the fence and hide behind "e-go-better", "God dey"

bezimo:


El rufia displaying his religious bigotry

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/01/can-blasts-el-rufai-over-alleged-comment-on-jesus-christ/


http://pointblanknews.com/pbn/press-releases/el-rufai-defiles-jesus-christ-on-twitter/


http://www.sharpedgenews.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1227:el-rufai-under-fire-for-blasphemous-tweet&Itemid=692

You do know the three links you put up address the same incident, I don't know if you actually are familiar with the incident you have so graciously provided links to so I'll put here the exact words quoted


“if Jesus criticises Jonathan’s government, Maku, Abati or Okupe will say that he slept with Mary Magdalene”.

It would be stupid for any individual to take offence for the above statement because it is an indictment of the media aides of Jonathan at the time who did not relent to leave the arena of discussion and drag whomever it was through the mud.

You are doing just that yourself, because el rufai was a critic he has been falsely labelled a bigot by yourself, so by comparison if Jesus criticized one of your champions I'd hate to see the threads and words used to describe him and the wild allegations that would be thrown at his person.

It is obvious both you and CAN lack the capacity to comprehend English language well enough, but then CAN was safely in the control of Ayo Oritsejafor and PDP,one can expect such. The word "if" addresses the subject and presents an important clause , I'm sure programmers on NL understand the importance of the "if" statement as it sets precedence for what is to follow.

You then went on to include an attachment of a scripture from the Qur'an, I wake up some mornings and decide to share a biblical text I come across as I feel inspired , el rufai is a practising Muslim which is yet to be a moral crime in Nigeria and he decided to share a scripture and to your bigoted mind that is wrong.

You would find if you are a true Christian as you claim that the a similar test is found in Romans 8 (12-17)


And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans 8:17 KJV
. The text addresses piety and supplication to the will of God.

You may need a psycho analysis done on you soon , I'm not sure you are fit to roam around freely

P

sweetgala:


You do know the three links you put up address the same incident, I don't know if you actually are familiar with the incident you have so graciously provided links to so I'll put here the exact words quoted


“if Jesus criticises Jonathan’s government, Maku, Abati or Okupe will say that he slept with Mary Magdalene”.

It would be stupid for any individual to take offence for the above statement because it is an indictment of the media aides of Jonathan at the time who did not relent to leave the arena of discussion and drag whomever it was through the mud.

You are doing just that yourself, because el rufai was a critic he has been falsely labelled a bigot by yourself, so by comparison if Jesus criticized one of your champions I'd hate to see the threads and words used to describe him and the wild allegations that would be thrown at his person.

It is obvious both you and CAN lack the capacity to comprehend English language well enough, but then CAN was safely in the control of Ayo Oritsejafor and PDP,one can expect such. The word "if" addresses the subject and presents an important clause , I'm sure programmers on NL understand the importance of the "if" statement as it sets precedence for what is to follow.

You then went on to include an attachment of a scripture from the Qur'an, I wake up some mornings and decide to share a biblical text I come across as I feel inspired , el rufai is a practising Muslim which is yet to be a moral crime in Nigeria and he decided to share a scripture and to your bigoted mind that is wrong.

You may need a psycho analysis done on you soon , I'm not sure you are fit to roam around freely

If you want to address what I raised without any modicum of civility, I would show you that I can be that way If I choose because no one has a monopoly on the use of abusive statements.

You are a super stupid idiot who cant agree that you and your islamic religious misguided fools are a major part of the reason we have wantom destruction of lives and property not just in Nigeria but in other parts of the world, we saw what happened in brussels, Paris recently.You and your idiotic midget called elrufai who has lost touch of priority and pressing matters that affect the socio-economic status of Kaduna state but instead choose to dabble into unnecessary religious controversy in a supposed volatile state which has enjoyed relatively stability in the past few years to stir up religious tension. You so so daft to appreciate the sensitivity of the matter.

You are a moronic idiot who cant understand that the motives of my submissions has been to expose the midget called elrufai for his islamic bigotry and hatred for the Christian faith by bringing a law that is against the constitution mandating freedom of worship.

He has been warned to leave the christian faith alone, his life is on the line should he choose to go ahead.

He can call the bluff and go ahead, we would see.

bezimo:
P

If you want to address what I raised without any modicum of civility, I would show you that I can be that way If I choose because no one has a monopoly on the use of abusive statements.

You are a super stupid idiot who cant agree that you and your islamic religious misguided fools are a major part of the reason we have wantom destruction of lives and property not just in Nigeria but in other parts of the world, we saw what happened in brussels, Paris recently.You and your idiotic midget called elrufai who has lost touch of priority and pressing matters that affect the socio-economic status of Kaduna state but instead choose to dabble into unnecessary religious controversy in a supposed volatile state which has enjoyed relatively stability in the past few years to stir up religious tension. You so so daft to appreciate the sensitivity of the matter.

You are a moronic idiot who cant understand that the motives of my submissions has been to expose the midget called elrufai for his islamic bigotry and hatred for the Christian faith by bringing a law that is against the constitution mandating freedom of worship.

He has been warned to leave the christian faith alone, his life is on the line should he choose to go ahead.

He can call the bluff and go ahead, we would see.

What. A. Christian. We should show this to your children if or when you have any. I'm sure you would approve of usage of certain choice words from your above statement.

What. A. Christian.

senbonzakurakageyoshi:


What. A. Christian. We should show this to your children if or when you have any. I'm sure you would approve of usage of certain choice words from your above statement.

What. A. Christian.

My Bible tells me to "answer a fool according to his folly lest he thinks he is wise". Its in Proverbs find where it is.Thats your next assignment since you have become monitoring spirit since I ignored all your senseless response.

Besides I shouldnt be replying an irrational folk like you.Nevertheless, Be aware that I wont dignify you with a further response.

IF this law is to pass all around the federation, then there will be a problem.
Man of God like Adeboye,Oyedepo,Kumuyi,T.B joshua, Oyakilome etc did not attend serminary before starting their ministry, if this law is to be pass, how will future men of God like these ones start thier ministry.
Let Think!!!!!!!
And I beleive this is the reason why christian are fighting this bill.

MarieSucre:


I'm sorry but the bible does not teach women to cover their hair.

Do you read the bible? I doubt it very much. It is people like you that make the most,usually empty,noise about Christianity and yet have no idea about what is in the bible. Even if you do not read the bible why not make an effort to check before quoting me. Were you hoping I will do the work for you? get out of my face!!

If for nothing, I saw the 2012 reprisal attack launched against the Hausas and it was deadly. I wouldn't want another of it again.

sweetgala:


YouYou obviously did not read the text and have obviously not read the bill itself .

Thant Bill does not stop evangelism or preaching, it limits the use of religion to abuse the rights of others in the state, it also regulates the wild growth of self imposed religious clerics be they imams or prophets who have not been certified by a body of their peers.

It is likeable to the association of surgeons, without it any person can get up and call himself or herself a doctor of Medicine and claim to be able to perform surgical operations.

The bill essentially promotes certification with the aim of improving quality and ensuring peace because those that preach are inherently bridge builders, who are sworn to a code of ethics, soon with this bill you would see kaduna Muslims and Christians living much more peacefully. Religion would be a reserve for private matters and subject to choice and not imposition. This is something most of the headline Islamic clerics would hate because it reduces their influence.

Though I have not read the bill in detail. I have only heard that the bill will prohibit the operation of religion in the outside except in a Church or Mosque. I need more clarification though. Thanks rhough

sweetgala:


YouYou obviously did not read the text and have obviously not read the bill itself .

Thant Bill does not stop evangelism or preaching, it limits the use of religion to abuse the rights of others in the state, it also regulates the wild growth of self imposed religious clerics be they imams or prophets who have not been certified by a body of their peers.

It is likeable to the association of surgeons, without it any person can get up and call himself or herself a doctor of Medicine and claim to be able to perform surgical operations.

The bill essentially promotes certification with the aim of improving quality and ensuring peace because those that preach are inherently bridge builders, who are sworn to a code of ethics, soon with this bill you would see kaduna Muslims and Christians living much more peacefully. Religion would be a reserve for private matters and subject to choice and not imposition. This is something most of the headline Islamic clerics would hate because it reduces their influence.

Though I have not read the bill in detail. I have only heard that the bill will prohibit the operation of religion in the outside except in a Church or Mosque. I need more clarification though. Thanks though

senbonzakurakageyoshi:


I may not be the biggest fan of Jehovah's Witnesses but if you want to evangelize, you might want to borrow a leaf from their book. You don't go around beating drums and blaring trumpets and causing a ruckus with loud speakers. Those things piss people off more than it converts them. What happened to talking to people one-to-one, reasoning with them, interacting directly with them. That's way more effective than making a helluva noise in the name of evangelism.

If it doesn't affect one-on-one religious interaction. No problem then

honeric01:


What happened to preaching by your action and character?

What happened to preaching to those you mingle with?

Must you cause noise pollution in the name of evangelism?

thanks for the mentioned. But in Christianity, it's both the WORD and ACTION

The point I still don't get is this, how does it affects you negatively, if I carry mic to preach in motor parks? How does it affect you negatively if I rent a shop to preach d word of God and call it a church?

Nobody Is forced into any church or to believe any gospel.

Point number one; it is not everything that a governor must comment on.
Point number two; War is dangerous, devastating, destructive. See Somalia, Libya, sudan, you will be shocked.
I think we should refuse to tread along religious and ethnic lines, people will do anything to protect it.
No body is weak no matther how he flinches at threats.
Lets give peace a chance, instead of argueing about stupid political, religious comments by over fed politicians, let us discuss about how
to build this country, its all we have.
HOW DOES AN HELICOPTER WORK, CAN WE BUILD ONE?,
RECENT ADVANCES IN TECHNOLOGY, NIGERIA MUST NOT BE LEFT BEHIND,...ETC
Bring your intellect and help suggest solutions rather than follow useless comments that do our unity no good.
FULL STOP.

bezimo:


My Bible tells me to "answer a fool according to his folly lest he thinks he is wise". Its in Proverbs find where it is.Thats your next assignment since you have become monitoring spirit since I ignored all your senseless response.

Besides I shouldnt be replying an irrational folk like you.Nevertheless, Be aware that I wont dignify you with a further response.

You have chosen to interpret scripture the way you want to fit your less-than-noble cause. Clearly, this bill is meant for people like you. Thankfully, I haven't used any abusive words or cast aspersions on your person throughout our interaction, so you can't accuse me of doing such. And where others have, what does Jesus teach about turning the other cheek, ehn , dear model Christian.

I shall not lower myself to the level of throwing insults, especially here on a faceless forum where we are trying to have a sensible discussion. Feel free to continue, however. And when you are done, teach your children to use such language as you have used here because, clearly, it is the right thing to do.