There's actually nothing to explain. Muhammed killed to make people accept Islam. And his followers will continue to do same because nothing would make a sane person accept Islam, except he is compelled to

And Sunni is like the Catholic, while Shia is like the Protestants. Now you will see that your asking if Muhammad (AS) was a Shia or Sunni so that you can argue for the fact that Jesus is not a Christian loses any credibility for the simple fact that what Muhammad is, is Muslim, while Jesus is not a Christian. All the forms of Sunni protocols were practiced by Muhammad, while the ahdan of shia may be different because they mention Ali Abitalib, and that is a no no!

Tell me about Jesus being a Christian again. Muhammad participated in building masajid, made Salah, fasted, gave sadaqah, Zakah, Hajj, Umrah! What did Jesus do that you do today. Everyone you mention, I will mention 2 he did not do!
@Gen2genius: many people are accepting it, today. Babs787 is agood example! Stop all of that unsure statements.

What do you mean by "unsure" statements? If Islam wasn't repugnant, why did muhammed FORCE people to accept it? Did Jesus kill anyone to make them believe his message? And could you tell me exactly what's unsure either in the above post or the one on page 1 which I will repeat here because you deliberately pretended not to see it:

Noetic shouldn't have started this thread in the first place, knowing full well that he would NEVER get a sensible explanation for the senseless killings by muslims. How do you expect a muslim to denounce what Muhammed himself did? Olabowale and co are grandmasters of deception and insincerity. Olabowale in particular has been desperately trying to play on people's emotions by insinuating that the main reason why "righteous" muslims kill is to enforce justice and curb evil. But what about Jihad in the quran? Is it about vengeance and justice? What about all the people that Muhammed and his followers killed because they refused to accept Islam? Was that also for the sake of justice? Should you impose religion on people? Islam was founded and propagated by violence and that's why violence will never stop being its hallmark. Without coercion who would accept Islam? What good does it have to offer? If it had any good to offer, people would have gladly embraced it without being threatened and intimidated.

It's a shame that people who recite astragafurulai (prayer of forgiveness) everyday would make themselves God over others. Who among the jihadists does not sin daily basis? Who among the people in the Sharia court of "justice" does not commit sin and ask for forgiveness daily? Who among those who stone and kill people "for allah" does not sin against allah daily? Even Olabowale, a sinner, claims he wouldn't mind killing another sinner for allah. Isn't that the height of hypocrisy and absurdity? And just as Noetic and other sensible people have been asking, IS ALLAH SO POWERLESS AND HELPLESS THAT HE CANNOT DEAL WITH THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST HIM? Why would he need the services of a bunch of hypocritical sinners to punish another sinner? Gosh! Islam is indeed a devil-inspired AFFLICTION on humanity!

And Mukina2 deserves to cover her face in shame. Seriously, your narrowmindedness DISGUSTS me. I started a topic that compares what Yusuf of Boko Haram did (beheading pastors who refused to accept Islam) with what Muhammed did and instead of pointing out the difference (if there was any) you shamelessly deleted the thread. Why do you find it so difficult to accept the truth?   

@gen2genius, could you please provide evidence of Mohammed killing people who refused to accept Islam during his life time. Historically Muslims were in minority when Mohammed stated his teaching in Mecca, and they were so tormented by the Mecca pagans that they have to flee to Abyssinia and later to Medina. Even in Medina there were non Muslims (Christians and Jews) during the Islamic rule of Mohammed and the Califs after him, history had it that they were protected and did not participate in the wars. All the four wars fought during his life time were waged at locations close to Medina, If you could look at the map of Saudi Arabia you would see that Mecca pagans had to travel almost 400 miles to wage war against Muslims in Medina all in teir despiration to destroy the religion of Islam. Muslims were only defending themselves.
As matter of fact Islam spread from Saudi Arabia to as far as Spain and North Africa due to fair and honest trading techniques and peaceful dispositions of Muslim not by war.

Jihad does not mean war, it means striving to correct unjust situation and the best Jihad is against yourself, that is making sure that one does not engage in unjust and un Godly dealings.

Most of the killing going on today have political undertone and one should not be covered with religious sentiment when discussing it. You can not tell tell me that all the soldiers and police that fought against boko harram sect were non Muslims. The Americans fighting in Middle East have their command center in Qatar, Qatar is an Islamic country. Till today there are non Muslim Arabs, they have not been beheadedn Doha, Christians go to Church on Friday or Saturday because the week starts on Sunday and they are not harassed. Please let be objective andand openminded in our discussions.

Now, let's see how honest and objective you are.

1. Are you insinuating that Muhammed never forced people to accept Islam?

2. Are you saying he never killed hundreds if not thousands of people who refused to accept Islam?

3. Are you claiming that the quran doesn't command muslims to kill non-muslims ("unbelievers"?

4. Are you really claiming that Jihad doesn't mean "holy war"?

5. How would you describe what Uthman dan Fodio did in nothern Nigeria, if not Jihad?

6. How does the quran say you should handle those who renounce Islam?

7. Since you insinuate that Muhammed didn't kill those who opposed Islam, can you explain why his Jewish wife poisoned him?

And i thought above that gen2genius is a gentleman and a scholar (genius), until I saw what was written just above. While you should noetic, Jihad is not a bad word, at all. I am in Jihad on a daily basis, guarding myself against all major sins by the guidance from Allah. So I recite ihhidina siratal mustaquim. Siratal ladhinna an amta aleyhim. If you think Jihad is only about killing of people in "religious intensioned military prosecution; holy war", you are completely wrong. I fight myself often against flirting, etc!

And if killing of evil people by people of Faith in Allah is a sign that the Lord of Creation is weak or that it is an immoral act, then tell me what do you make of what Yahweh/Jehovah did through the hand of Moses? What about those killings? Is any of it for injustice and unjustifiable? Are all of it Justifiable and done to evil people? If your answer is that Moses was doing the work of his Lord, then Muhammad (AS) did exactly that!

Now ask yourself, what did the people of Jericho do to warrant such terrible killings, including their pretty women, old people, and animals and trees, etc? What about that of the Jebusites, etc? Then compare that or any of them to disobedience to the Commandments of Allah, so much so that they denied Him or worshipped others apart from Him or along with Him? What is worse, and why was Pharaoh killed/drowned other than he did not believe which was his reason for thinking that he was capable of unilateral oppression of the people?


The same Moses Yahweh/Jehovah was on one hand sending him as His Messenger and on the other hand was "TRYING" to kill him, according to what I have heard many of the Christians say on this forum! Where is the logical thing here about all of the sending of and trying to stop the same person to deliver the message!?

Finallay no one forced Babs 787 to become Muslim. No one forced me to remain muslim sice my mother was a Christian before she turned to islam, just in the last 3 years or so. Zainab was not forced by me to become muslim, nor all her associates who are now falling into islam like flies, right there in Nigeria. Please dont blame Noetic, he does not listen. He is a typical british influenced man. They are stubborn in that England; the lapping dog of america! I wonder how devil can inspire some organization that curses him on a daily basis? How does the Christian protects or curses the devil? The Muslim says audhu bilahi minal shaitani rajiim, meaning "I sek refuge/safety in Allah against the acursed Shaitan (accurse means deprived of any sign of Mercy, ever).

Also could you explain the following hadiths?


   Book 019, Number 4366:

   It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.” [This single sahi hadiths tells everything about Islamic intolerance]

   Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288

   The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders one of them was to Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula.


   Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176

   Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
   Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Olabowale, three questions for you.

1. Can you cite specific instances where Moses killed for God?

2. Are Christians followers of Moses or Jesus?

3. Can you give instances of when Jesus killed for God?

@gen2genius: « #36 on: Yesterday at 11:46:51 PM »  
Now, let's see how honest and objective you are. This is enough for the day. I have a life apart from Nairaland you know. Too many questions will not allow me to run my life. Is not like my answer benefits you. You have no interest in Islam. islam may not have interest in you by the way you are going.
1. Are you insinuating that Muhammed never forced people to accept Islam? Yes. My proof, there were non-muslims in Madina even on the day of his death!


2. Are you saying he never killed hundreds if not thousands of people who refused to accept Islam?Yes. My proof, Makka became Muslim, without killing a single soul, when they expecetd him to revenge the way the had treated him and his companions, the reason they made Hijras.


3. Are you claiming that the quran doesn't command muslims to kill non-muslims ("unbelievers"? Yes. My proof, not a non-muslim who did not stop you from the worship of Allah. Your statement is more of indiscriminate killings. Islam forbids that.


4. Are you really claiming that Jihad doesn't mean "holy war"? Yes. Struggle is Jihad. harb is war. You do not know a thing about islam. Read surah Almaidah, you will see war/harb, not struggle/Jihad.


5. How would you describe what Uthman dan Fodio did in nothern Nigeria, if not Jihad? I hated history and Nigerians kill me with their attaching Islam with Northern Nigerians alone. The Yorubas are Muslims. My family is islam, dominantly and primarily.


6. How does the quran say you should handle those who renounce Islam? Quran says those who left islam, and then came back to it, and then left it and came back to it, ! That should tell you something. Oh. There is no compulsion in religion. If there were, I would have persnally gone to Texas to snatch Osisi to become Muslima. I would have personally just turn northward to snatch davidylan as well. Lol


7. Since you insinuate that Muhammed didn't kill those who opposed Islam, can you explain why his Jewish wife poisoned him? Fellas; Osisi and Davidylan, help your fellow Kiriyo to understand Islam. He said his wife poisoned him. Lol.

among these three prophets, Jesus was the least successful, Moses was the more successful than Jesus in the eyes of the jews. Moses killed because his Lord commanded him, thats killing for God. Jesus of the Bible was weak, so now the christians are doing some large scale killings for him now that theuy are in power. He is your god, aint he? Muhammad is never in competition with Jesus and you know it, so stop fronting!

@gen2genius,

1. Jesus, asked his disciples to sell their garments to buy swords, what do you use sword for, peel eggs?

2. During his arrest it was recorded that Peter cut off the ear of one the soldiers and Jesus healed him, if it was never needed or used why did he have the sword with him?

3. What is the origin and the meaning of the word "Crusade"?

olabowale:

@gen2genius: « #36 on: Yesterday at 11:46:51 PM »  
Now, let's see how honest and objective you are. This is enough for the day. I have a life apart from Nairaland you know. Too many questions will not allow me to run my life. Is not like my answer benefits you. You have no interest in Islam. islam may not have interest in you by the way you are going.
1. Are you insinuating that Muhammed never forced people to accept Islam? Yes. My proof, there were non-muslims in Madina even on the day of his death!


2. Are you saying he never killed hundreds if not thousands of people who refused to accept Islam?Yes. My proof, Makka became Muslim, without killing a single soul, when they expecetd him to revenge the way the had treated him and his companions, the reason they made Hijras.


3. Are you claiming that the quran doesn't command muslims to kill non-muslims ("unbelievers"? Yes. My proof, not a non-muslim who did not stop you from the worship of Allah. Your statement is more of indiscriminate killings. Islam forbids that.


4. Are you really claiming that Jihad doesn't mean "holy war"? Yes. Struggle is Jihad. harb is war. You do not know a thing about islam. Read surah Almaidah, you will see war/harb, not struggle/Jihad.


5. How would you describe what Uthman dan Fodio did in nothern Nigeria, if not Jihad? I hated history and Nigerians kill me with their attaching Islam with Northern Nigerians alone. The Yorubas are Muslims. My family is islam, dominantly and primarily.


6. How does the quran say you should handle those who renounce Islam? Quran says those who left islam, and then came back to it, and then left it and came back to it, ! That should tell you something. Oh. There is no compulsion in religion. If there were, I would have persnally gone to Texas to snatch Osisi to become Muslima. I would have personally just turn northward to snatch davidylan as well. Lol


7. Since you insinuate that Muhammed didn't kill those who opposed Islam, can you explain why his Jewish wife poisoned him? Fellas; Osisi and Davidylan, help your fellow Kiriyo to understand Islam. He said his wife poisoned him. Lol.

@ OLABOWALE:

1 - The question is not whether there were non-muslims in medina at the time of his death or not. The question is: DID MUHAMMED FORCE PEOPLE TO ACCEPT ISLAM OR NOT?

2- You lied there. Muhammed himself said he was given instructions to kill people who refused to accept Islam and those who refused to accept that he was sent by allah

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah." (Bukhari: volume 1, book 2, number 24, Khan)

Tabari IX:82:

The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.”

Bukhari:V4B53N386

Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.


Qur'an 9:29-33: Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth ,  It is He who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may uplift it above every religion, though the unbelievers be averse.

Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, pp. 397-398:

Surad Ibn `Abd Allah al-Azdi arrived with about thirteen to nineteen members of his people in a deputation to the Apostle of Allah ,  The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, appointed him (Surad) amir of those of his people who had embraced Islam, and enjoined him to wage war against the polytheists of the tribe of Yaman, who were living in the adjoining territories. He set out and alighted at Jurash which was a strongly fortified city and where the tribes of Yaman had taken shelter. He (Surad) invited them to embrace Islam but they declined. He besieged them for a month and used to raid their animals and seize them. Then he retreated to a mountain, called Shakar. They thought that he had fled, and came out to pursue him. He arrayed his forces, and attacked them. Muslims put them to the sword as they liked. They seized twenty of their horses and fought them all day long. The people of Jurash had sent two men to the Apostle of Allah, who were waiting for an opportunity to meet him. The Apostle of Allah, Allah bless him, informed them of this combat and the victory of Surad. The two men came to their people and informed them of the circumstances, along with other incidents. So a deputation of them set out, and they waited on the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, and embraced Islam. ()

Other instances:

He (Muhammad) said: "Woe to you, Abu Sufyan, isn't it time that you recognize that I am God's apostle?" He answered, "As to that I still have some doubt." I (Abbas) said to him, "Submit and testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of God before you lose your head," so he did so. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 547)

Abu Bakr too said: "You asked me for the best advice that I could give you, and I will tell you. God sent Muhammad with this religion and he strove for it until men accepted it voluntary or by force." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 668-669)

 And this: When Jarir reached Yemen, there was a man who used to foretell and give good omens by casting arrows of divination. Someone said to him. "The messenger of Allah's Apostle is present here and if he should get hold of you, he would chop off your neck." One day while he was using them (i.e. arrows of divination), Jarir stopped there and said to him, "Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. (Bukhari: volume 5, book 59, number 643, Khan)


Muhammed and his followers were so excited by this violent propagation of Islam that an anthem was composed for the savage crusade. Here is a section of a poem that Ka'b b. Malik composed before the Islamic conquest of Al-Ta'if.

   If you offer peace we will accept it
   And make you partners (with us) in peace and war.
   If you refuse we will fight you doggedly. ,
   We shall fight as long as we live
   Till you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge.
   We will fight not caring whom we meet
   Whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. ,
   And we cut off their noses and ears
   With our fine polished Indian swords,
  Driving them violently before us to the command of God and Islam,
   Until religion is established, just and straight. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 587-588)

3. You lied again. Several of the passages of quran where muslims are ordered to kiil non-muslims do not contain that clause ("a non-muslim who stops you from worshipping allah). Muslims were ordered to KILL all unrepentant unbelievers. Here are examples:

Qur’an:8:65 : O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.


Qur’an:8:39: Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.

Qur’an:9:5: Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

5. Just answer a simple question, instead of beating around the bush: HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT UTHMAN DAN FODIO DID?

6. Again, you didn't answer the question. Be honest: HOW DOES THE QURAN SAY YOU SHOULD HANDLE THOSE WHO RENOUNCE ISLAM?

@ REMI

You've not answered my question. How many people did Jesus kill?

olabowale:

among these three prophets, Jesus was the least successful, Moses was the more successful than Jesus in the eyes of the jews. Moses killed because his Lord commanded him, thats killing for God. Jesus of the Bible was weak, so now the christians are doing some large scale killings for him now that theuy are in power. He is your god, aint he? Muhammad is never in competition with Jesus and you know it, so stop fronting!

Olabowale, how do you define success? Can you compare the number of followers of Judaism with that of the adherents of CHRISTianity?

Again, you refused to answer my question: can you cite specific instances of when Moses killed for God?

If Jesus of the Bible was "weak", how many people did Isa of the quran kill? And did you say Isa was a weakling because he did not kill like muhammed?

What do you mean by "large scale killings" by Christians? Are you from space? When was the last time you heard of Christian terrorists, suicide bombers etc? When last did you hear of Christians going on killing spree like your muslim barbarians?

@Gen2genius: If a singe non-muslim was in Madina (city of Muhammad (AS)), used to be Taif, then the thought of Muhammad forced people to islam is therefore defeated. Think man. You are genius already.

Your Bukhari book 19 Number 4366 is based on those Jews who renaged on their treaty with the Muslim, fighting the Muslims on the side of the enemy. Do you think anybody will allow them to remain in Madina? If during the Nigerian Civil War, a Yoruba people living in Biafra were to have treaty with Igbo people and then turn around to fight against the Igbo on the side of the federal Troops, do you think the Igbo troop will allow them to remain in Igboland? You must be joking man. But then who am I to know your mindset, and what you would expect? But read the below and the bolded.

Chapter 20: EVACUATION OF THE JEWS FROM THE HIJAZ


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Book 019, Number 4363:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira who said: We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood up and called out to them (saying): O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qasim, you have communicated (God's Message to us). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this (i. e. you should admit that God's Message has been communicated to you), accept Islam and you would be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qisim, you have communicated (Allah's Message). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this, - He said to them (the same words) the third time (and on getting the same reply) he added: You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I wish that I should expel you from this land Those of you who have any property with them should sell it, otherwise they should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (and they may have to go away leaving everything behind).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Book 019, Number 4364:
It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn Umar that the Jews of Banu Nadir and Banu Quraizi fought against the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who expelled Banu Nadir, and allowed Quraiza to stay on, and granted favour to them until they too fought against him Then he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa' (the tribe of 'Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Book 019, Number 4365:
A similar hadith has been transmitted by a different chain of narrators, but the hadith narrated by Ibn Juraij is more detailed and complete.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Book 019, Number 4367:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zubair with the same chain of transmitters.


The Jews themselves knew that Abul Kassim communicated the Message of Allah to them. They knew him to be messenger (AS), like Moses. Ah. You need to stop fronting.

Gen2genius does forget that I live in the epicenter of the world. Before it is broadcasted we might have heard it, if not witnessed it. John and his father Zakariah were prophets who did not even raise their voice against anyone. If being not killing anyone ids the order of success, then these father and son were head and shoulders above Jesus! If killing is the order of the strength, Moses was by far greater than Jesus. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of israel. Thats a statement from hm. Plase argue yourself a Nigerian into the lost sheep of the house of Israel and let me read it.

Today about 5% of the house of Israel are Jewish by religion, even all of them 100% are jewish by ethnicity. So what you have is that the emaining 5% are atheists, Hindus, Buhhdists, etc and Muslims and Christians. Now tell me how Jesus could ever be said to b successful than Moses with the Jews?

And I do not know how I can better answer your question about Moses killing for God; did he Moses killed all those people who died under his leadership at the warrior hands of the Israelites killed for Satan or for God? Who ordered it, Moses or Aaron? That your answer; God authorizing Moses.

@Gen2genius: If a singe non-muslim was in Madina (city of Muhammad (AS)), used to be Taif, then the thought of Muhammad forced people to islam is therefore defeated. Think man. You are genius already.

This makes no sense to me, because it says nothing about the question I asked.  I said Muhammed forced people to accept Islam; I didn't say he forced EVERYBODY in Medina. So back to my question. Did muhammed force people to accept Islam or not?


And even though you tried vainly to justify muhammed's killings of Jews, what about the other instances I mentioned? Will you deny them too? I'll copy them here for all to see

2- You lied there. Muhammed himself said he was given instructions to kill people who refused to accept Islam and those who refused to accept that he was sent by allah

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah." (Bukhari: volume 1, book 2, number 24, Khan)

Tabari IX:82:

The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.”

Bukhari:V4B53N386

Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.


Qur'an 9:29-33: Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth ,  It is He who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may uplift it above every religion, though the unbelievers be averse.

Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, pp. 397-398:

Surad Ibn `Abd Allah al-Azdi arrived with about thirteen to nineteen members of his people in a deputation to the Apostle of Allah ,  The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, appointed him (Surad) amir of those of his people who had embraced Islam, and enjoined him to wage war against the polytheists of the tribe of Yaman, who were living in the adjoining territories. He set out and alighted at Jurash which was a strongly fortified city and where the tribes of Yaman had taken shelter. He (Surad) invited them to embrace Islam but they declined. He besieged them for a month and used to raid their animals and seize them. Then he retreated to a mountain, called Shakar. They thought that he had fled, and came out to pursue him. He arrayed his forces, and attacked them. Muslims put them to the sword as they liked. They seized twenty of their horses and fought them all day long. The people of Jurash had sent two men to the Apostle of Allah, who were waiting for an opportunity to meet him. The Apostle of Allah, Allah bless him, informed them of this combat and the victory of Surad. The two men came to their people and informed them of the circumstances, along with other incidents. So a deputation of them set out, and they waited on the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, and embraced Islam. ()

Other instances:

He (Muhammad) said: "Woe to you, Abu Sufyan, isn't it time that you recognize that I am God's apostle?" He answered, "As to that I still have some doubt." I (Abbas) said to him, "Submit and testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of God before you lose your head," so he did so. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 547)

Abu Bakr too said: "You asked me for the best advice that I could give you, and I will tell you. God sent Muhammad with this religion and he strove for it until men accepted it voluntary or by force." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 668-669)

  And this: When Jarir reached Yemen, there was a man who used to foretell and give good omens by casting arrows of divination. Someone said to him. "The messenger of Allah's Apostle is present here and if he should get hold of you, he would chop off your neck." One day while he was using them (i.e. arrows of divination), Jarir stopped there and said to him, "Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah. (Bukhari: volume 5, book 59, number 643, Khan)


Muhammed and his followers were so excited by this violent propagation of Islam that an anthem was composed for the savage crusade. Here is a section of a poem that Ka'b b. Malik composed before the Islamic conquest of Al-Ta'if.

    If you offer peace we will accept it
    And make you partners (with us) in peace and war.
    If you refuse we will fight you doggedly. ,
    We shall fight as long as we live
    Till you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge.
    We will fight not caring whom we meet
    Whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. ,
    And we cut off their noses and ears
    With our fine polished Indian swords,
   Driving them violently before us to the command of God and Islam,
    Until religion is established, just and straight. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 587-588)

3. You lied again. Several of the passages of quran where muslims are ordered to kiil non-muslims do not contain that clause ("a non-muslim who stops you from worshipping allah). Muslims were ordered to KILL all unrepentant unbelievers. Here are examples:

Qur’an:8:65 : O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.


Qur’an:8:39: Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.

Qur’an:9:5: Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

And I still insist: CAN YOU CITE INSTANCES OF WHEN MOSES KILLED PEOPLE FOR GOD? Stop making claims without valid proofs, man!

olabowale:

And Sunni is like the Catholic, while Shia is like the Protestants. Now you will see that your asking if Muhammad (AS) was a Shia or Sunni so that you can argue for the fact that Jesus is not a Christian loses any credibility for the simple fact that what Muhammad is, is Muslim, while Jesus is not a Christian. All the forms of Sunni protocols were practiced by Muhammad, while the ahdan of shia may be different because they mention Ali Abitalib, and that is a no no!

Tell me about Jesus being a Christian again. Muhammad participated in building masajid, made Salah, fasted, gave sadaqah, Zakah, Hajj, Umrah! What did Jesus do that you do today. Everyone you mention, I will mention 2 he did not do!
@Gen2genius: many people are accepting it, today. Babs787 is agood example! Stop all of that unsure statements.

Jesus prayed and so we do the same, he cast out demons,we do the same, he preached the gospel, we do the same, he healed the sick, its a common occurrence to true Christians,okay now say he didn't do any of these,

now answer these questions did Mohammed marry 4 or 11 wives?, did he kill anyone?, did he marry an under aged aisha?, you see you all ain't muslims but repackaged islam because if you were olabs, you'll have 11 women, kill apostates and marry underaged girls,
Shia and sunni sects just plainly defines islam(a religion), just like Catholicism, Christianity is  not a religion and so do not have sects but different fellowships.

And you just completely dodged that hadith of the prophet commanding anyone who fell away from islam to be killed again bukhari vol.4 no 260 how would you justify this senseless command.

Remii:

@gen2genius,

1. Jesus, asked his disciples to sell their garments to buy swords, what do you use sword for, peel eggs?

2. During his arrest it was recorded that Peter cut off the ear of one the soldiers and Jesus healed him, if it was never needed or used why did he have the sword with him?

3. What is the origin and the meaning of the word "Crusade"?

1 How many people did they kill

2 read the next verse

3 The crusade was fought by roman catholics, innocent Christian pilgrims were attacked on their way to Jerusalem and so the pope sent soldiers disguised as pilgrims and ordered them to fight only if attacked and just as if he knew islamic mentality thee were attacked and so he waged war against them calling it crusade, and i don't believe in the crusade, I believe in Christ, and Christ said we should pray for those who persecute us and that includes Muslims which makes the crusade evil in the first place, only a political thing,the pope wanted to expand his territory.

Now answer my questions

1 Did Jesus tell his disciples to kill?

2 Did Jesus Kill? (A Christian is Christ-like and anyone who kills isn't like Christ as he never killed

3 Did peter the apostle kill? (he would have but for Jesus who told him to put back his sword in his sheath)

4 Did Paul kill?

5 Which apostle of Christ Kill?

@Gen2genius:

And I still insist: CAN YOU CITE INSTANCES OF WHEN MOSES KILLED PEOPLE FOR GOD? Stop making claims without valid proofs, man!

From the time of the Burning Bush, we will agree that Moses became a Messenger/Prophet of his Creator. From that point on, any killing that was done under the leadership of Moses, by the then "righteous" Children of Israel, that we will have to count for Moses for his Lord. No? If the answer is yes, we shall begin by what he did with his staff; Drowned all military personnels of Egypt. Then, when he crossed the Red Sea, he ordered the bloodletting by killing every person who was not "Children of Israel", unless and I am not sure of these now, the people became their subordinates of slaves, the same condition they escaped from under Pharaoh! Or at least those people will have to worship the same Yahweh/Jehovah(that came later), that the children of Israel worship!

Give me an instance if you know, from your Bible where Moses passed or left a disbeliever alive on the way to Cannan. I will tell you who truly is the liar; the man who I will address my response to when I write to you! And Moses tarried with his people, for almost 40 yearsbefore he was "gathered" with his forefathers!

If your answer is no, then tell me who Moses was killing for and we start from the first born of the people of Egypt. Afterall, Moses could have refused Yahweh when he was ordered to do the passover rituals bringing about such humongous death. Afterall he had the first right of refusal. No? He was a human being and we all have free will! But he was a prophet who knew his Lord well. So was Muhammad. So was Jesus who was not supported with large numbers of followers. And from among the handful, we had his betrayer, his denier, and others! please let me concentrate on my Wednesday without your weak argument. Open your mind first and reflect on humanly behavior of humans. Moses could not kill disbelieving animals, or trees (like Jesus who carried out the killing of disbelieving fig tree), Moses had to kill disbelievers humans!

@Olabowale, do you have a problem answering questions, i asked you about Jesus, you told me about moses, i follow the laws Jesus gave us which is love and faith

Hi all,

You guys lack the technique of sound argument. You better go and read more.

Any way, the prophet of Islam, Muhammad son of Abdallah, suffered all persecution, hunger, poverty and the likes in Mecca, his hometown. He was even forced to migrate to Medina. He didn't fight, did he?

Afterwards, while living in Medina, the kuffars of Mecca started confiscating his and his followers goods they marketed in Mecca and other Arabian lands. He was then ordered to fight back. Muslims were even "ill-prepared", with no mighty power of weapon, fighters, and so on. They barely did it and won at the end because Allah, the Exalted, was behind them.

Yet you can't see a concrete reason of this act? Myopics. You are really unfair.

@Olabowale,

May Allah, the Exalted, bless you.

@Sleek29: « #48 on: Today at 08:42:59 AM »  

Jesus prayed and so we do the same, he cast out demons,we do the same, he preached the gospel, we do the same, he healed the sick, its a common occurrence to true Christians,okay now say he didn't do any of these,

Jesus made wudu and bow and prostrated his face. You have never done that in your entire life. No christian does that. Jesus had a regement way of praying, yours as christian is random. If you attend church services, if you are joning them at the tail end, after they finish, you will leave with them, but not cover what you missed! This is prayer? How can you cast out demons, when you guys worship demons, having three gods in 1 God? That is demonic if you ask me! Did Jesus preach what the gentleman Paul wrote? No. But you Christians preach it before you even preach what you want Jesus to say, in the Bible! And if you heal the sick, why do you get sck at all, except that God Almighty afflicts whoever He Wills! He heals those who He Wills, too. Can you raise somebody from death without ever dying, again? Can you prevent your own death? You know that you enjoy this world, the women, the cars the good foods, etc. Can you prevent yourself from getting old? So dont even try to tell me that you are eager for Christian heaven with that poor description you havefor it. Left to me, I will take best of this world, anyday than the clapping and singing and 'praising' which is the christian heaven.

And give me what true christian is, and what percentage of Christianity? The rest are not true Christians, and they are already condemned to the lake, from your statement above, in the tradition of Jesus! Lol.

now answer these questions did Mohammed marry 4 or 11 wives?, did he kill anyone?, did he marry an under aged aisha?, you see you all ain't muslims but repackaged islam because if you were olabs, you'll have 11 women, kill apostates and marry underaged girls,
Shia and sunni sects just plainly defines islam(a religion), just like Catholicism, Christianity is  not a religion and so do not have sects but different fellowships.

Underage as in what? Whats is age and what is overage, since you know what underage is? Did the age of a person in 2000 years ago equals in responsibility in the city of Jerusalem equals in responsibility, etc to that of the same age in today's Abuja or Lagos, or New York City? Absolutely not! You cant compare apples and oranges, you can only contrast them! They are not the same. But wait a minute: people as young as 13 do get married in America. It is in the books in some states, with the consent of the guardian(s).  Further, where it is not in the books, the young women at that age are getting rambocious, frisky. ASk Osisi, she will tell you about teenage pregnancies in Texas. Lol. They are Christians, and not muslims. And what you think Jesus did by himself, as you listed it, you will have to deny what Jesus said about himself to make that stick. Jesus said by myself I can do nothing! That tells you that Jesus did not do those things because he had the power, but was empowered. Every Messenger/prophet was empowered as a sign of their prophethood.

And when the christians claim to be able to heal, the Jesus saying of Physician heal thee self comes to mind. You are lying, man.

And you just completely dodged that hadith of the prophet commanding anyone who fell away from islam to be killed again bukhari vol.4 no 260 how would you justify this senseless command.

I do not have to answer every question raised. I answer one which is a sign that the rest can be answered, just as well. If i sit around answering everything on Nairaland, who will pay my bills? You? Please.

@Sleek29: « #51 on: Today at 12:41:47 PM »

@Olabowale, do you have a problem answering questions, i asked you about Jesus, you told me about moses, i follow the laws Jesus gave us which is love and faith

I dont have problem answering any question. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the laws and the prophets. Rather he came to fulfill them. And further warned that whoever disregard the laws and the prophets, and or encourage anyone to do so, such a person will be the low in the Kingdom of heavens! Today there is lake of Fire according to the Christians. This lake of fire is not on this earth. It must terefore be in heaven; and it has to be the low in reward (as in negative reward) than the heaven heaven (paradise; positive rewards).

When Jesus said this, before your usual turning all the laws (Torah and Sabur) and the the prophets (From Adam to John the Baptist) to loe your God and neighbors, we realised that Jesus even read many portions of the Laws and spoke about the prophets. According to you, he met Moses and Elijah at his transformation, so will it be so unusual for me to draw a coomon thread between Jesus and Moses? Moses was more succesful among the Children of Israel messagers even today in followership! I use Moses to let you know that Jesus was no different if he were to have been in the position and time of Moses! Afterall, Jesus began his ministry by declaring that he brought in War and not Peace, and immediately turn over the money changers' table, all by himself. A one man gang if you look at his action.


He asked people to buy swords, which they did and were about to use it, until he realised that a handful of people could not overcome such conventional advantage over his group! You must have seen a pack of wolves hunting down a lonely Carabou, or a buffaloo? They are too many for this powerful animal to fend off. But one wolf cant take him down. So it is the same thing when Jesus saw how large the mob was that it was finished and the sword will not be enough to finish them!

@Sleek29: #49 on: Today at 09:11:52 AM »

1 How many people did they kill

The crusaders killed so many people. The diciples were going to kill everyone in site, except that the people were so many and the disciples were so few. You know when a fisherman catches a whale, with just conventional net, withot winches? He will just have to cut loose the net. That was the condition of Jesus and the disciples. The forces of the enemy was too much; in ammos and numbers!

2 read the next verse

? Where is the verse? Information on crsade is now a verse in the Bible? I get it, George Bush dubbed the post 911 invasion of Afganistan "Crusade!" He must have just quoted it from the Bible.

3 The crusade was fought by roman catholics, innocent Christian pilgrims were attacked on their way to Jerusalem and so the pope sent soldiers disguised as pilgrims and ordered them to fight only if attacked and just as if he knew islamic mentality thee were attacked and so he waged war against them calling it crusade, and i don't believe in the crusade, I believe in Christ, and Christ said we should pray for those who persecute us and that includes Muslims which makes the crusade evil in the first place, only a political thing,the pope wanted to expand his territory.

Everything is politics when the Cristians are confronted with their evils! But they are quick to say what is bad act from Muslim is religious and never political! I wonder why?

1 Did Jesus tell his disciples to kill?

He told tem to prepare for war by buying swords. That is an evidence to commit kilings.

2 Did Jesus Kill? (A Christian is Christ-like and anyone who kills isn't like Christ as he never killed)

So what I se here is christ-like people will do only what Jesus did? All of you who killed will go to hellfire. All of you who married will end up in faire of ake. All of you who ever had sex is doomed! All of you who never got hung on the cross and died on it, will never enter good heaven. No? Lol. I Jesus did not kil, he had intention to kill for his Creator his Lord God who is One!

3 Did peter the apostle kill? (he would have but for Jesus who told him to put back his sword in his sheath)[/quot] When you have answered your own question, I hope you had an inference from it. He had the intent to war, but the general told him to hold the fire, after the first scomish. This is the strategy of war, otherwise, many more lives would have been lost that day.

4 Did Paul kill?

Did Paul know Jesus? Was he a disciple? The guy who couldnt knock up a woman, what can you expect? This is for you who liked to be knock up or love to knock up, but you need to get marry first. I have fornication, and adultery is completely unacceptable.

5 Which apostle of Christ Kill?

I dont know. The way you are behaving , it will be hard press to believe that Christians just pick up killing from no earlier Christian fathers. It is so natural for you guys to kill, so you killing masses of people is not even a surprise anymore. That of Muslim is the headline news.

And please explain this situation in this hadith bukhari vol 4 no 260

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Ali burnt innocent people, they had no gun or knife with them, they didn't attack any old lady, there offence was just that they left islam and the prophet endorsed it only that he said kill and not burn, what difference does it make its all evil,

[quote][/quote]

@olabowale, the question was did Jesus, Peter or Paul ever take anyone's life and you still talk nonsense, since they didn't do it i cn't do it but mohammed killed and gave orders to kill, that makes it islamic to kill!!!!,you talk rubbish, a Christian's role model is Jesus,he doesn't do whatever Christ peached against, any Christan who takes a life is guilty of not following what Jesus said, PRAY FOR THOSE THAT PERSECUTE YOU, even on the cross he asked for forgiveness for those who put him on the cross, that to me sounds like someone who is from and of God, and not someone who'll tell you that there's no sin in killing an infdel if he attacked you or not and goes on to promise them lots of women.

And yes paul didn't see Jesus physically but saw him spiritually, and everything he preached about only confirmed the things Christ said in the synoptics.

olabowale:

@Sleek29: « #27 on: Today at 03:50:28 PM » Atleast you ask good question. Unlike the nonsensical Noetic2 with no ethics whatsoever. (play on words), lol.

Muhammad is Sunni based on the Fiqh of "Sunnah!" Muhammad (AS) or the 3 generations, the first is the companions, none of them is "Shia." Allah says, Laa Shia. Shia means break, separate, cut, etc. Like in engineering the shear force, or shear diagram.

I will not respond to noetic, anymore. He answers no question, but list a ton of his own, always. lol.

1. u did not ask me any question. . . . .please feel free to ask me questions related ONLY to this thread on this thread.

2. why are u fond of always turning all debates into muslim versus christians? what has bible sword got to do with islamic killings?

noetic2:

2. why are u fond of always turning all debates into muslim versus christians? what has bible sword got to do with islamic killings?

That's what the OP is about. You, a Christian versus Olabowale, a Muslim. Right?

@
Olabowale, you are arguing iilogically.as if u are trying to avoid qustions.trying to twist answers just like Quran twisted bible stories. anyway, the fact is: mohammed commaded muslims to KILLED all non muslim.s but u are tryin to cover this.infact islam kills!!

@papa giddy,

Your illogicality in arguing needs not to even be said. You rant and hide. You cannot quote a single verse lest even irrelevant to back up your claim.

Please say no more.

@Sleek29: « #57 on: Yesterday at 02:08:51 PM »

@olabowale, the question was did Jesus, Peter or Paul ever take anyone's life and you still talk nonsense, since they didn't do it i cn't do it but mohammed killed and gave orders to kill, that makes it islamic to kill!!!!,you talk rubbish, a Christian's role model is Jesus,he doesn't do whatever Christ peached against, any Christan who takes a life is guilty of not following what Jesus said, PRAY FOR THOSE THAT PERSECUTE YOU, even on the cross he asked for forgiveness for those who put him on the cross, that to me sounds like someone who is from and of God, and not someone who'll tell you that there's no sin in killing an infdel if he attacked you or not and goes on to promise them lots of women.

And yes paul didn't see Jesus physically but saw him spiritually, and everything he preached about only confirmed the things Christ said in the synoptics.

The topic has nothing to do with Biblical statement or explanation at all, until you guys brought it in. Now if Jesus to all christians is never a killer, nor an angry man, rtc(though we saw that he stated in the Bibe that he brought no peace, no sir, but war, killed a figtree whie angry and hungry, sent destructive spirits into the herds of Swine, etc), then those of the christians who kill, etc are devil/satanic followers, not followers of Jesus, for sure. No? How many do we now have among the Christians that are followers of Jesus, considering that it will be okay, still if they kill trees, send evil spirit to living things will be okay and meet with the expection of true followership of Jesus?

Almost all christian west will qualify as devil/satanic followers, since they kill people, instead of praying for them, the enemies!


This is my take on the matter. What do you have to say Sleek29? Or anyone at all.

@ olabowale, luke 21:8, John 15:12, LOVE (His commandment, which anyone who goes against it is not of Christ), verse 14: you are my friends if you do whatever i command you, (anyone who does otherwise is an enemy of Christ even if he is a pope)

For many are called but few are chosen and mind you just got to know something FBI's major contractor is a muslim, think about that