Hi olabs,

For the sake of this thread, u will be the tutor and I the student.
I just want to understand the rationality in islamic killings as endorsed by allah and mohammed.
So tell me. . . . .what do u think about allah's commandments for muslims to kill?. . . . .is it ok to kill for allah?




I want original analysis. . . no copy paste or long stories please.

PS: No other muslim is invited except olabowale.
All other non-muslims are however invited to ask olabs questions about killings in islam.

noetic2:

PS: [b]No other muslim is invited except olabowale.
All other non-muslims are however invited to ask olabs questions about killings in islam.[/b]

Then what is this thread doing in this section?

mukina2:

Then what is this thread doing in this section?

when did olabowale stop being a muslim?

No other muslim (trolls) is invited. . . . , simple.

Trolls or muslim ? Who is prohibited ?. I can't stop laughing, pot calling kettle black

where is olabowale?

« #2 on: Yesterday at 09:17:27 AM »
Quote from: mukina2 on Yesterday at 01:17:40 AM
Then what is this thread doing in this section?

when did olabowale stop being a muslim?

No other muslim (trolls) is invited. . . . , simple.

The write of the bolded sound like KKK or Skinhead guy who tells people that he is a good guy by having a lonely token type for show Black man as a friend! The same black man will be accidental shot or hurt by him or his resist buddies, if he were to go hunting with them or go to some auto racing event with them. It will open season on the black guy.

I dont know whether i should laugh or cry, since I see the disdain of the writer against the muslims. He calls us "trolls" and he thinks I do not remember that I am a troll in his eye! Religious bigot.

Olabowale stop being a coward and answer the question!
Are you now ashamed of allah?

Cant you post without name calling?

where is olabs

Olabowale is on my thread, busy comparing Quaran with the Holy Bible
when he shud be explaining why his fellow brothers are always blood thirsty

webdezzi:

Olabowale is on my thread, busy comparing Quaran with the Holy Bible
when he shud be explaining why his fellow brothers are always blood thirsty

perhaps he has no explanations?

Davidylan: I ignored Noetic deliberately because he does not know the difference between Muslims and trolls or in your case dross! Further, am sometimes very busy, and i do not have time for the Christian vultures to come from the front, the back, the left and the right of me, like Allah says of what Shaitan promised that he will do to the children of Adam (AS) in his effort to confuse them as he waylay them from the Straight path, making roadblocks that will make the greater majority not to enter Paradise, by their not accepting Islam of their life time! Read this in Surah Araf, after Shaitan says arrogantly that he was better than Adam, who was created from Dirt, Soil, Mud, etc (earth) and he shaitan from smokeless fire.

However if i were to answer Noetic, I will tell him that the first killer on earth was cain, a disbeliever, who was induced to doing so by Shaitan (his first earthly act to make sure that at least 50% do not enter Islam), to kill Abel, his own blood brother, a believer who submitted fully to his Creator.

This is in the Quran, and I am almost certain you will find it in Surah Baqarah. You see that the first killer killed with injustice. He will end up in hellfire. The first martyr was a muslim and he will enter Paradise.

However if a believer should kill a person, it should be for justice, just revenge and for the good of the society at large. And the first aggressor between the muslims and disbelievers, during the time of Muhammad (AS) was the disbelievers of makka, who oppressed, tortured and indeed killed men and women of the new and young Muslim faith, which was on its way to be completed in a process that started with the first human, Adam (AS) and passed through all the prophets without a single time that the core message of that process changed (Laa ilaha ilallah)!

@Webdezzi: I will not be able to eplain why a person kills apart from what Allah ordained and His Messenger (AS) carried out.

Or can you explain why Kuskus, a simple grain dish poisons me all the time? Yet I can eat harder meals, from grains.

olabowaleeeeeee, jesus is calling you! come out of islam!!

olabowale:

Davidylan: I ignored Noetic deliberately because he does not know the difference between Muslims and trolls or in your case dross! Further, am sometimes very busy, and i do not have time for the Christian vultures to come from the front, the back, the left and the right of me, like Allah says of what Shaitan promised that he will do to the children of Adam (AS) in his effort to confuse them as he waylay them from the Straight path, making roadblocks that will make the greater majority not to enter Paradise, by their not accepting Islam of their life time! Read this in Surah Araf, after Shaitan says arrogantly that he was better than Adam, who was created from Dirt, Soil, Mud, etc (earth) and he shaitan from smokeless fire.

It was to avoid misconceptions that I invited only u (as a muslim) to this thread. I am free to express my opinion on the others. . . . If I call them trolls. . . so be it. Its my opinion.

However if i were to answer Noetic, I will tell him that the first killer on earth was cain, a disbeliever, who was induced to doing so by Shaitan (his first earthly act to make sure that at least 50% do not enter Islam), to kill Abel, his own blood brother, a believer who submitted fully to his Creator.

This is in the Quran, and I am almost certain you will find it in Surah Baqarah. You see that the first killer killed with injustice. He will end up in hellfire. The first martyr was a muslim and he will enter Paradise.

This has little or no business with the thread.

However if a believer should kill a person, it should be for justice, just revenge and for the good of the society at large. And the first aggressor between the muslims and disbelievers, during the time of Muhammad (AS) was the disbelievers of makka, who oppressed, tortured and indeed killed men and women of the new and young Muslim faith, which was on its way to be completed in a process that started with the first human, Adam (AS) and passed through all the prophets without a single time that the core message of that process changed (Laa ilaha ilallah)!

I have questions that need clarifications. . . .

a. why should a "believer" kill in the first place?

b. why is forgiveness not an option to a believer? why must a "believer" take revenge? why is revenge not left to allah?

c. how justifiable is killing in islam?

d. tell us how one can kill "for the good of the society" like u stated above?

e. why is peace making not an option to a "believer"? why the many killings?

f. under what conditions would u (olabowale) kill for allah?

@baba giddy: « #13 on: Today at 10:39:32 PM »  

olabowaleeeeeee, jesus is calling you! come out of islam!!

Jesus was not a christian and only a jew in an ethnic generic sense. Why should I leave the religion that Jesus (AS) was sent upon, and start following Paul who was Saul? (grinning; a slight smiley expression)


@noetic2: « #14 on: Today at 11:05:33 PM »  

It was to avoid misconceptions that I invited only u (as a muslim) to this thread. I am free to express my opinion on the others. . . . If I call them trolls. . . so be it. Its my opinion.

Of couse, it is your opinion, regardless of the fact that it has no truth. Did you see my factual statement, and not opinion when where I said the vultures will come out? See that I was not wrong? The same way Shaitan and his shayatini come out from every direction, to stand against truth.


[Quote]This has little or no business with the thread.[/quote] The topic is killing in islam. No? And from the Quran I draw out a scenerio of the first killing between disbelief and upon belief, while islam was initially established on Adam (AS) you said no, it has nothing to do with it! Are you for real or you are just jiving?


[Quote]I have questions that need clarifications. . . .
a. why should a "believer" kill in the first place?[/quote] Why should it be? Have you heard about the law of retribution? Have you heard that people do demand their due rights? Justice is the ability to practice what is just, considering that action may need an equal reaction to mentain an atmosphere of equilibum. Just is not always blind, you know, it must and should always be just. A killer could be killed if he killed unjustly and the victim's family or the society demands it or it will help to mentain and actas cautionary measure against advancing evil acts.

b. why is forgiveness not an option to a believer? why must a "believer" take revenge? why is revenge not left to allah?[/quote[ Quran from Allah expressed three ways to deal with asituation where a life is lost t a killer, if it is not a just killing: The killer could be killed after a thorough investigation hoping to find a way that he could be found not guilty. The other option is that even though he is already found guilty, the family of the deceased can be paid what is known as "blood money" if they so choose, which may compensate for the income or gain that is lost as a result of the dead not bringing in the "food money anymore." The last option, which is the nobliest is that that the family of the deceased leaves the killer alone, without asking for his life or asking for blood money. They give him wholesale amnesty for the sake of Allah. I see that you never have came acrossed this before? Its in the Quran, different from the Jewish eye for an eye, or the Christians only by the lips and never will be carried out impossible turn the other cheek.

c. how justifiable is killing in islam?

It helps to curb evil, serves as revenge/rather as avenge when innocent people are murdered and the family wants the fitting punishment. It also can be carried out by the state when a spreader of evil is creating chaotic condition and the insanity is getting to the people. You may need to remove the cancer from the society!

d. tell us how one can kill "for the good of the society" like u stated above?

For example the Iraqi people felt that it will be better for Saddam Hussaine be killed. Thats part of their fr the good of the society. Afterall, he is no more to be the "symbol" of what the government calls the Opposition. At least they think it lessened the violence that could still rage on, considering he was a former head of state, a leader and beloved by a large pull of people, that the current leadership of the Sunni! I used him, so that I can best express what it means "for the good of the society."

e. why is peace making not an option to a "believer"? why the many killings?

What do you mean? You want the muslims to behave like the Christians? The Christian do say that they do forgive; but man, Crusaders killed all the way from Europe to Jerusalem. The Christianssay they forgive, but in their inquisition, they killed everyone or were forced to convert. I remember a woman i do business with in Spain. her last name is Madina, so I say salaama to her. She looked at me as if I was speaking Yoruba language. She is russian, except that she told me her husband's family were muslims before inquisition and they had to convert to christianity or be kiled! I say poor iman they had; disbeliefing is worse than death. Where were you hat you have not heard about the two world wars, and all the evils pepetrated by Christans countries, including the atrocity of the Christian missionaries, with Bible in one hand and death all the way in the other? Please dont humor me? Show me christianity and i will tell you that it brought nothing less than eah, lies, cheat, isobedience to God and yes indeed death and oppression on mankind.

f. under what conditions would u (olabowale) kill for allah?

All the conditions in the Quran. And watever the prophet (AS) says in his authentic ahadith. I do not follow anyone, and I am a slave of Allah and a keen follower of the Messenger (AS), gentle like Abu Bakr, Tough like Umar Khattab, wise like Uthman Affan and a warrior like Ali Abitalib (RA to all of them). Everything has its place. I will kill for Allah, if I come upon an evildoer who was trying to kill me, because I was stopping him from the evil he was doing on an old lady or man, or a one that he has a comparible advantage over. If I struggle with him and he wished to kill me,and I am able to take his gun away from him and he is still trying to come after me with a knife, I will pull the trigger!

Thats the truth. You may remain a yellow belly and let them kill you and kill those defenseless potential victims, I will act according to the dictate of my Lord which actually agrees with my conscience. You see an evil person will be eliminated, restoring calmness to all.

I foresee Mr Olabs a soul winner for Jesus Christ soonest and don't wait till you're stricken like Saul(Paul) before you convert

It helps to curb evil, serves as revenge/rather as avenge when innocent people are murdered and the family wants the fitting punishment. It also can be carried out by the state when a spreader of evil is creating chaotic condition and the insanity is getting to the people. You may need to remove the cancer from the society!

Killing helps curb evil? so what will help curb killings
so why did Umayr go into a woman's home under the cover of night. He comes upon the women, sleeping in her bed with her child, and murders her by plunging a sword through her body.
Afterwards, Muhammad tells the man that he has "helped God and his apostle". If Allah were really threatened by this woman or feels this woman is evil, I think He could have killed her Himself, don't you?

You must accept the fact that God alone gives life, and he alone should take it, not you, because he also gave you that life you have
Life is a special gift from God not Mohammed's.

Hi there,

Wonder never end.
Who Allah, the Exalted, guides non can lead astray; whom He leads astray non can guide.
May He guide us all, amen.
Right?

olabowale:

@noetic2: « #14 on: Today at 11:05:33 PM »   Of couse, it is your opinion, regardless of the fact that it has no truth. Did you see my factual statement, and not opinion when where I said the vultures will come out? See that I was not wrong? The same way Shaitan and his shayatini come out from every direction, to stand against truth.

nairaland prominent muslims are ALL trolls. . .  .thats my opinion. . . .thats a FACT. . . .  .ur opinion or acceptance of this fact makes little or no difference.

The topic is killing in islam. No? And from the Quran I draw out a scenerio of the first killing between disbelief and upon belief, while islam was initially established on Adam (AS) you said no, it has nothing to do with it! Are you for real or you are just jiving?

u keep shooting aimlessly.

Why should it be? Have you heard about the law of retribution? Have you heard that people do demand their due rights? Justice is the ability to practice what is just, considering that action may need an equal reaction to mentain an atmosphere of equilibum. Just is not always blind, you know, it must and should always be just. A killer could be killed if he killed unjustly and the victim's family or the society demands it or it will help to mentain and actas cautionary measure against advancing evil acts.

a. did allah write the law of retribution? why cant these people take their demands to allah? why kill someone else?

b. by taking the law into their own hands, does that not seem to suggest that allah is a powerless idol?

c. who decides when equilibrum is maintained? is equilibrum maintained only when non-muslims are killed?

The big deal of my questions in this regard is that I simply CANNOT understand why anyone would kill anyone. why would muslims leave the mosque on friday and then embark on a killing spree? why do they have to kill at all? why is LOVE not an option? why cant u show love and temper justice with mercy?
It is even a BIGGER DEAL that both allah and mohammed endorsed this.

Quran from Allah expressed three ways to deal with a situation where a life is lost t a killer, if it is not a just killing: The killer could be killed after a thorough investigation hoping to find a way that he could be found not guilty. The other option is that even though he is already found guilty, the family of the deceased can be paid what is known as "blood money" if they so choose, which may compensate for the income or gain that is lost as a result of the dead not bringing in the "food money anymore." The last option, which is the nobliest is that that the family of the deceased leaves the killer alone, without asking for his life or asking for blood money. They give him wholesale amnesty for the sake of Allah. I see that you never have came acrossed this before? I[/b]ts in the Quran, different from the Jewish eye for an eye, or the Christians only by the lips and never will be carried out impossible turn the other cheek.

You are right. . .as a matter of FACT I have NEVER come across this before. . . for a muslim to show mercy. can u show me where it is in ur koran? and also tell me why muslims never practise it?
why does allah have to give three options? why does allah not just tell muslims to forgive and forget it all? is it because allah is a blood-thirsty person? why is islam riddled in violence?

[b]It helps to curb evil, serves as revenge/rather as avenge when innocent people are murdered and the family wants the fitting punishment. It also can be carried out by the state when a spreader of evil is creating chaotic condition and the insanity is getting to the people. You may need to remove the cancer from the society!

This is false. Have u ever heard that "Those who kill by the swod shall die by the sword"
can u give ONE example in modern history where an islamic killing has helped curbed evil? where there was no retaliation? where there was no ill feeling on the part of the respondent?

why is this "evil" not being curbed in the UK and US? does that imply that islamic killings are only justifiable in islamic environments?

For example the Iraqi people felt that it will be better for Saddam Hussaine be killed. Thats part of their fr the good of the society. Afterall, he is no more to be the "symbol" of what the government calls the Opposition. At least they think it lessened the violence that could still rage on, considering he was a former head of state, a leader and beloved by a large pull of people, that the current leadership of the Sunni! I used him, so that I can best express what it means "for the good of the society."

This is a LIE.

Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death in a duly certified court of law. He was NEVER tried under islamic or sharia law. . . and the people of iraq never had a say in the fate of saddam hussein.

So, Give us an example of how one can kill "for the good of the society"? how has a person been killed for societal good in an islamic environment? what were the benefits of killing such when weighed against the demerits?

What do you mean? You want the muslims to behave like the Christians? The Christian do say that they do forgive; but man, Crusaders killed all the way from Europe to Jerusalem. The Christianssay they forgive, but in their inquisition, they killed everyone or were forced to convert. I remember a woman i do business with in Spain. her last name is Madina, so I say salaama to her. She looked at me as if I was speaking Yoruba language. She is russian, except that she told me her husband's family were muslims before inquisition and they had to convert to christianity or be kiled! I say poor iman they had; disbeliefing is worse than death. Where were you hat you have not heard about the two world wars, and all the evils pepetrated by Christans countries, including the atrocity of the Christian missionaries, with Bible in one hand and death all the way in the other? Please dont humor me? Show me christianity and i will tell you that it brought nothing less than eah, lies, cheat, isobedience to God and yes indeed death and oppression on mankind.

I did not ask u about christians. . . .or did I?

the question remains. . .why is peace making not an option to a "believer"? why the many killings?

olabowale:

All the conditions in the Quran. And watever the prophet (AS) says in his authentic ahadith. I do not follow anyone, and I am a slave of Allah and a keen follower of the Messenger (AS), gentle like Abu Bakr, Tough like Umar Khattab, wise like Uthman Affan and a warrior like Ali Abitalib (RA to all of them). Everything has its place. I will kill for Allah, if I come upon an evildoer who was trying to kill me, because I was stopping him from the evil he was doing on an old lady or man, or a one that he has a comparible advantage over. If I struggle with him and he wished to kill me,and I am able to take his gun away from him and he is still trying to come after me with a knife, I will pull the trigger!

Thats the truth. You may remain a yellow belly and let them kill you and kill those defenseless potential victims, I will act according to the dictate of my Lord which actually agrees with my conscience. You see an evil person will be eliminated, restoring calmness to all.

a. Are the above the ONLY conditions with which u will kill?

alhaji olabs, u don get plenty hajia fighting for you

GEW:

alhaji olabs, u don get plenty hajia fighting for you

I have never seen a single meaningful contribution by this character to any thread.

@Purestboy: « #17 on: Today at 06:09:09 AM »  

I foresee Mr Olabs a soul winner for Jesus Christ soonest and don't wait till you're stricken like Saul(Paul) before you convert

My case and that of Jesus is the same. He a slave with a message. I am just a slave without a message, but folow the messenger of my time, Muhammad (AS). And unless you can proof that Jesus was a Christian, then am in the same religion as he was, winning souls by Allah for the Lord of Jesus. While Shaitan was able to cajole Saul(Paul), e missed the mark always in regards to be. Allah teaches me through His Quran and the explanation of His Propet (AS) by ahadith how to fight against succumbing to the gimmicks of Shaitan and Shayatins. Remember that I seek refuge in Allah against the accursed Shaitan and his followers, always.  


@webdezzi (m): « #18 on: Today at 10:30:52 AM »  

Killing helps curb evil? so what will help curb killings

Justifiable killing of an evil soul does heal the society at large. In 1970, after the civil war, the rash of thievery began to creap up against nigerians. Some firing squads took place of those who used weaponry in their process of robbery. Babatunde Folorunsho, Iyasimo, were the first. Just imagine if no squad took place, a larger portion would have gone into it, seeing that nothing but a jail term is the worst to happen. Today, if the honest people of nigeria can enact their constitution and kill those gangs of armed robbers after due judicial processs, while the police and the military, etc, discharge their duties as expected, the rash waves of robbing people, raping people, etc will die down within a year. Instead, you have a lawless society, governed by incompetency and inept. What will curb killing; good governance, good citizenry, shame and fear of doing evil and God consciousness. People will die because thats the natural order of things, but not dying deliberately by the hands and intended actions of evil people. America as wild as it is, evil doers know that the hand of the government will stretch to reach them and grab them offf from the streets, stopping them and those would be copy cats from going about it with impunity!

so why did Umayr go into a woman's home under the cover of night.  He comes upon the women, sleeping in her bed with her child, and murders her by plunging a sword through her body.

As big and almost fearless as Umar is, would he go to a woman's home only at nigh to kill her? He could have killed her even during the daytime. You need to read about Umar before his Islam, and move forward from tthere. That will help you to know that if he had gone only at night, there was a good reason for it. I will like to read about the incidence, so post your source please!

Afterwards, Muhammad tells the man that he has "helped God and his apostle".  If Allah were really threatened by this woman or feels this woman is evil, I think He could have killed her Himself, don't you?

Allah says what good a person does He allows it. If a believer believes so much, Allah will be the hand that he does  goods with. So when Umar killed the woman, according to you, Allah killed er by the hands of Umar, under the cover of the night. That should clear up things in your mind. No?

You must accept the fact that God alone gives life, and he alone should take it, not you, because he also gave you that life you have
Life is a special gift from God not Mohammed's

And when Davd killed Goliat, who killed Goliat, David or God? Why would the case of any evil person be different when it comes to Islamic good deeds of taking him out of the society, for the good of all? Allah's messenger (AS) said Umar did good for the sake of Allah and His Messenger (AS). Did the messenger (AS) not say that? All these beeding liberals are fakes. Let a man jump into your bed and tell you to comot that he wants to deal with your wife for about 30 minutes, and see what your kindness will become? If you did not react, see what your woman will do with a gun on the brain of this intruder!

@Noetic:

This is false. Have u ever heard that "Those who kill by the swod shall die by the sword"
can u give ONE example in modern history where an islamic killing has helped curbed evil? where there was no retaliation? where there was no ill feeling on the part of the respondent?

As to the killing by the sword, did Moses or David or Solomon died by the sword? I think not, so your statement is false. I gave you the example of Saddam Hussaine, you had a problem with it. I see that you lack foresight. Am not insulting you, but just stating the facts. If Saddam were to be alive today, those who loved him may actually escalates their effort by killing more people on a daily basis towards the effort of trying to free him from the clutches of the West and the Shia. That is a killing for the good of the society, because it at least saved some lives. How many we do not know!

why is this "evil" not being curbed in the UK and US? does that imply that islamic killings are only justifiable in islamic environments?

Before Islam of Muhammad, and during the almost Christianity alone in UK and US, were there no killings, and all the other evils? You ask childlike questions sometimes as if you are in a daze! You see I didnt say childish. And when we look at it, the crimes of amercan muslims, is like 1% compared to what american Christians commit, on a daily basis.

This is a LIE.
Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death in a duly certified court of law. He was NEVER tried under islamic or sharia law. . . and the people of iraq never had a say in the fate of saddam hussein.

So, Give us an example of how one can kill "for the good of the society"? how has a person been killed for societal good in an islamic environment? what were the benefits of killing such when weighed against the demerits?

You must have been asleep at wheel of reality. If an evil person is not put in check by a better person, his evil will increase and many may copy him and think it to be normal. The duly certified court of iraq is Islamic and not Christianity. Proof: Ambassador Brenner, the american adminstrator at the time of revealing the new flag of Iraq was shocked along with the rest of the world when Laa ilaha ilallah remained thinking that it will never survive the pressure from the West! If Saddam was killed for the west, know that the Shia Iraqis and iher elites have worshipped the west. The last I saw of the case, at the trial was that they invoked Allah, right there from the pages of the Quran. Some younger friends who speak arabic were sent from the UN to help at least in the reporting of the Constitution to the UN. One of them is Muhibudeen, a yoruba boy I know very well. You sir, Noetic is the liar. No sorry the speaker of lies.

the question remains. . .why is peace making not an option to a "believer"? why the many killings?

Do you make peace with a person when you are angry? Human nature dictates that we are not all of the same temperament. Some get upset quicker and some forgie a lot slower. America is still running against Taliban and Al Qaidah. America has not forgiven Manuel Noriega. And if America has her way, she will imprison Daniel Ortega for life! And this is a first cass Christian society. Oh, and we call England the lap dog of America. If america as a nation of Christianity for the most part, and she will not forgive a disbeliever like Osama or a believer like Manuel Noriega, even though America subscribes to "Turn the other Cheek, and the summarily forgive your enemies, pray for them and others in the Bible", why would you expect a muslim whose book allows for full revenge or take blood monney as compensation or forgive without either of the first two to do any better? You noetic will not forgive a fellow who comes to your house in the middle of the night, wanting to get your properties, by force with a knife against your jugular and you have a gun to preserve your life. Or will you allow him to cut you up and quitely leave with your properties, if not taking your wife along?

@Noetic: « #20 on: Today at 12:27:20 PM »

nairaland prominent muslims are ALL trolls. . . .thats my opinion. . . .thats a FACT. . . . .ur opinion or acceptance of this fact makes little or no difference.

My opinion which is correct; all non muslims are disbelievers. The Christians worship gods and not God! These are facts.

Quote
The topic is killing in islam. No? And from the Quran I draw out a scenerio of the first killing between disbelief and upon belief, while islam was initially established on Adam (AS) you said no, it has nothing to do with it! Are you for real or you are just jiving?

u keep shooting aimlessly.

My speaking the truth becomes aimless shot. When I lie that 3 gods are 1, then I will telling the truth, according to noetic! Interesting man that dude is.


[Quote]a. did allah write the law of retribution? why cant these people take their demands to allah? why kill someone else?[/quote] Allah allows people to demand the life of an evil man who took life in an unjust way. Thats retribution. Allah permits it, hence He wrote it. And this law is for mankind and mankind behaves humanly.

b. by taking the law into their own hands, does that not seem to suggest that allah is a powerless idol?

No. It does not remotely suggest that Allah is powerless, or that He is an idol! Your thinking is so warped that you need to get your head out of your split/crack. Think for yourself for a change, man. Funny that you will not know that people have the right to ask for revenge. Heck america is bent on revenge, doesnt she? Is Yahweh/Jehovah or the three parts of your god individually and collectively powerless? Yes?

c. who decides when equilibrum is maintained? is equilibrum maintained only when non-muslims are killed?

Muslims can be killed. Heck Saddam was killed. And just the other day, Muhammad Yusuf of Boko Haram was killed. Think, buddy. Think hard man. Kids ask the darndiest questions.

The big deal of my questions in this regard is that I simply CANNOT understand why anyone would kill anyone. why would muslims leave the mosque on friday and then embark on a killing spree? why do they have to kill at all? why is LOVE not an option? why cant u show love and temper justice with mercy?
It is even a BIGGER DEAL that both allah and mohammed endorsed this.

Again I do not know why people do what they do. Read the Quran, again and see that what you have those Muslims that you complain about do inone of them is in the Quran or ahadith! So your big deal and your bigger deal are for your own mind and not mine.


[Quote]You are right. . .as a matter of FACT I have NEVER come across this before. . . for a muslim to show mercy. can u show me where it is in ur koran? and also tell me why muslims never practise it?
why does allah have to give three options? why does allah not just tell muslims to forgive and forget it all? is it because allah is a blood-thirsty person? why is islam riddled in violence?[/quote]This guy says person, following the tradition of the trinity of where God is three persons! Allah the Almighty Creator is not a person. Even His Angels are not persons. The genies are not persons. Only human beings are persons. Monkeys are not persons either! You get my drift? Is there an independent 4th option which will not fall under the 3 that islam gave already? Go read the Quran, where the issue of forgiveness is placed. It is immediately after talking about death, if the killer is not in the vicinity of the Holy Mosque; haram in Makka! Google it, please because I cant spoon feed you, all the time. Not even now that I am kinda busy.

@olabowale, was Mohammed, Sunni or Shia, how can Jesus be Christ- like(Christian), when He Himself is the Christ. how can the teacher be the student, how can a leader be a follower. just dumb, rili dumb, and you live in the US, How did they give you visa sef?

i see why there's boko haram in islam, they despise wisdom.

And please explain this situation in this hadith bukhari vol 4 no 260

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Ali burnt innocent people, they had no gun or knife with them, they didn't attack any old lady, there offence was just that they left islam and the prophet endorsed it only that he said kill and not burn, what difference does it make its all evil,

olabowale:

@Noetic: « #20 on: Today at 12:27:20 PM »   My opinion which is correct; all non muslims are disbelievers. The Christians worship gods and not God! These are facts.

  My speaking the truth becomes aimless shot. When I lie that 3 gods are 1, then I will telling the truth, according to noetic! Interesting man that dude is.

blah blah blah . . . . .

1. u love running round in circles and playing with words. what has trinity got to with islamic killing malady?

2. We have both agreed on numerous occasions on this forum that muslims and christians do not worship the same God. we can as such deduce from our agreement that mohammed proclaimed another god,  . , and not the bible God. mohammed proclaimed allah.
allah is a moon-god in arabia.

3. In lieu of 2 above, I agree that according to u all non-muslims notably christians are unbelievers. christians dont worship the moon-arabian idol called allah. They worship God.

  Allah allows people to demand the life of an evil man who took  life in an unjust way. Thats retribution. Allah permits it, hence He wrote it. And this law is for mankind and mankind behaves humanly.

Thank u for making this statement. . . from the above, I can confirm that

a. allah is a blood thirsty demon, who permits and allows jungle justice.

b. allah wickedly refuses to encourage forgiveness.

c. allah gives no room for repentance. . . if a person sins, allah does not mind that they die.

d. Since the bible God gives room for repentance. . .He is definitely not the same as allah. . . .or is he? 

No. It does not remotely suggest that Allah is powerless, or that He is an idol! Your thinking is so warped that you need to get your head out of your split/crack. Think for yourself for a change, man. Funny that you will not know that people have the right to ask for revenge. Heck america is bent on revenge, doesnt she? Is Yahweh/Jehovah or the three parts of your god individually and collectively powerless? Yes?

u keep missing the point. . .what has america got to do with allah's powerlessness?

You did not answer my question. ,  . .at least not intelligently.
why cant allah fight for muslims? why cant he answer their prayers and defend them? why do muslims have to take the law into their own hands?

Muslims can be killed. Heck Saddam was killed. And just the other day, Muhammad Yusuf of Boko Haram was killed. Think, buddy. Think hard man. Kids ask the darndiest questions.

what has the above got to do with thread?

how is equilibrium maintained? and who measures equilibrium? is it allah or mohammed?

Again I do not know why people do what they do. Read the Quran, again and see that what you have those Muslims that you complain about do inone of them is in the Quran or ahadith! So your big deal and your bigger deal are for your own mind and not mine.

1. why dont u know why muslims kill shamelessly? did allah not command such? are u saying that they are bad muslims?
do u care to make clarifications? why EXACTLY would anyone leave the mosque on friday after praying to allah and then proceed to kill others?

2. Do u think the answer is in the koran?

This guy says person, following the tradition of the trinity of where God is three persons! Allah the Almighty Creator is not a person. Even His Angels are not persons. The genies are not persons. Only human beings are persons. Monkeys are not persons either! You get my drift? Is there an independent 4th option which will not fall under the 3 that islam gave already? Go read the Quran, where the issue of forgiveness is placed. It is immediately after talking about death, if the killer is not in the vicinity of the Holy Mosque; haram in Makka! Google it, please because I cant spoon feed you, all the time. Not even now that I am kinda busy.

what does the above have to do with the thread? why not just answer the questions. . . .here they are again. . .
why does allah have to give three options? why does allah not just tell muslims to forgive and forget it all? is it because allah is a blood-thirsty person? why is islam riddled in violence?

olabowale:

@Noetic: As to the killing by the sword, did Moses or David or Solomon died by the sword? I think not, so your statement is false. I gave you the example of Saddam Hussaine, you had a problem with it. I see that you lack foresight. Am not insulting you, but just stating the facts. If Saddam were to be alive today, those who loved him may actually escalates their effort by killing more people on a daily basis towards the effort of trying to free him from the clutches of the West and the Shia. That is a killing for the good of the society, because it at least saved some lives. How many we do not know!

Absolute Rubbish.

The death of saddam hussein has not in any way stopped evil. . . at least from the islamic angle. thighing, temporary marriage, underage marriages and honour killings and suicide bombings are still predominant in iraq. And morover saddam was not tried or killed islamically,  . . so u are yet to produce an example.

So give ONE example of an islamic killing that has helped to curb evil?

Before Islam of Muhammad, and during the almost Christianity alone in UK and US, were there no killings, and all the other evils? You ask childlike questions sometimes as if you are in a daze! You see I didnt say childish. And when we look at it, the crimes of amercan muslims, is like 1% compared to what american Christians commit, on a daily basis.

what a DISHONEST LIAR u are.

The truth is islamic extremists CANNOT curb or proclaim any evil in either the US or UK because they are in the far MINORITY. At least we all see the malady they display in saudi arabia et all.

You must have been asleep at wheel of reality. If an evil person is not put in check by a better person, his evil will increase and many may copy him and think it to be normal. The duly certified court of iraq is Islamic and not Christianity. Proof: Ambassador Brenner, the american adminstrator at the time of revealing the new flag of Iraq was shocked along with the rest of the world when Laa ilaha ilallah remained thinking that it will never survive the pressure from the West!  If Saddam was killed for the west, know that the Shia Iraqis and iher elites have worshipped the west. The last I saw of the case, at the trial was that they invoked Allah, right there from the pages of the Quran. Some younger friends who speak arabic were sent from the UN to help at least in the reporting of the Constitution to the UN. One of them is Muhibudeen, a yoruba boy I know very well. You sir, Noetic is the liar. No sorry the speaker of lies.

Whats the meaning of the RUBBISH above?

Even a new born baby knows that Saddam was tried in court of law and not a sharia court. . . . .and at no time was he charged for disturbing the peace of islam.

So sir olabs. . . .please state ONE EXAMPLE of an islamic killing that was done for the good of the society?
is it not amazing that u have none? islam is a FRAUD.

Do you make peace with a person when you are angry? Human nature dictates that we are not all of the same temperament. Some get upset quicker and some forgie a lot slower. America is still running against Taliban and Al Qaidah. America has not forgiven Manuel Noriega. And if America has her way, she will imprison Daniel Ortega for life! And this is a first cass Christian society. Oh, and we call England the lap dog of America. If america as a nation of Christianity for the most part, and she will not forgive a disbeliever like Osama or a believer like Manuel Noriega, even though America subscribes to "Turn the other Cheek, and the summarily forgive your enemies, pray for them and others in the Bible", why would you expect a muslim whose book allows for full revenge or take blood monney as compensation or forgive without either of the first two to do any better? You noetic will not forgive a fellow who comes to your house in the middle of the night, wanting to get your properties, by force with a knife against your jugular and you have a gun to preserve your life. Or will you allow him to cut you up and quitely leave with your properties, if not taking your wife along? 

Are u educated at all? is america a religion?

why are muslims not peace makers? why are they war makers?

Noetic shouldn't have started this thread in the first place, knowing full well that he would NEVER get a sensible explanation for the senseless killings by muslims. How do you expect a muslim to denounce what Muhammed himself did? Olabowale and co are grandmasters of deception and insincerity. Olabowale in particular has been desperately trying to play on people's emotions by insinuating that that main reason why "righteous" muslims kill is to enforce justice and curb evil. But what about Jihad in the quran? Is it about vengeance and justice? What about all the people that Muhammed and his followers killed because they refused to accept Islam? Was that also for the sake of justice? Should you impose religion on people? Islam was founded and propagated by violence and that's why violence will never stop being its hallmark. Without coercion who would accept Islam? What good does it have to offer? If it had any good to offer, people would have gladly embraced it without being threatened and intimidated.

It's a shame that people who recite astragafurulai (prayer of forgiveness) everyday would make themselves God over others. Who among the jihadists does not sin daily basis? Who among the people in the Sharia court of "justice" does not commit sin and ask for forgiveness daily? Who among those who stone and kill people "for allah" does not sin against allah daily? Even Olabowale, a sinner, claims he wouldn't mind killing another sinner for allah. Isn't that the height of hypocrisy and absurdity? And just as Noetic and other sensible people have been asking, IS ALLAH SO POWERLESS AND HELPLESS THAT HE CANNOT DEAL WITH THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST HIM? Why would he need the services of a bunch of hypocritical sinners to punish another sinner? Gosh! Islam is indeed a devil-inspired AFFLICTION on humanity!

And Mukina2 deserves to cover her face in shame. Seriously, your narrow-mindedness DISGUSTS me. I started a topic that compares what Yusuf of Boko Haram did (beheading pastors who refused to accept Islam) with what Muhammed did and instead of pointing out any difference (if there was any) you shamelessly deleted the thread. Why do you find it so difficult to accept the truth? 

@Sleek29: « #27 on: Today at 03:50:28 PM »

@olabowale, was Mohammed, Sunni or Shia, how can Jesus be Christ- like(Christian), when He Himself is the Christ. how can the teacher be the student, how can a leader be a follower. just dumb, rili dumb, and you live in the US, How did they give you visa sef?

Atleast you ask good question. Unlike the nonsensical Noetic2 with no ethics whatsoever. (play on words), lol.

Muhammad is Sunni based on the Fiqh of "Sunnah!" Muhammad (AS) or the 3 generations, the first is the companions, none of them is "Shia." Allah says, Laa Shia. Shia means break, separate, cut, etc. Like in engineering the shear force, or shear diagram.

I will not respond to noetic, anymore. He answers no question, but list a ton of his own, always. lol.