promise101:

Hey, I am sorry for delaying. I just saw it this night.
Yeah, you really asked a good question! Lol
You asked; how grace can actually STOP you from sinning.
Grace means an unmerited favour of God. It is not worked for, rather, it is a GIFT.
First of all, the reason why the grace of God was offered to us was because no one has the ability to live a sinless perfect life. NO ONE! Grace was given because we are naturally, morally POWERLESS to stop sinning and as well condemned eternally.
No matter, how any preacher who preaches that the heretic gospel of sinless perfection looks like, let it be settled in your heart that he is guilty of what he is preaching. Even moses, samson, david, paul and even peter, who blew it a BIG time, they were NOT sinless perfect. Sinless perfection(works) is NOT a requirement for eternal life, rather FAITH IN GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS is the ONLY requirement for eternal life. Nothing else!
I know that you have heard people who have told you to live a sinless perfect life to go to heaven. This is the greatest LIE of all times against the gospel of Jesus. But, the gospel truth BEFORE GOD AND MAN, is that those preachers were NEVER, is NOT and can NEVER be sinless perfect. Don't be deceived!
The gospel of Jesus(grace) is not a call to duty, is not a call to change the wrong and always deceive yourself as mr right, is not a call to do this and keep away from this. It is a GOOD NEWS to BELIEVE that Jesus never suffered at the cross in vain. A GOOD NEWS TO BELIEVE that Jesus has suffered the punishment of your eternal sins so that you can have PEACE with God. A GOOD NEWS, that Jesus died and went to hell for 3days for your eternal sins, so that NOT EVEN SIN can take you there. Only if you can believe the work he did in your place. It was you that suppose to die and go to hell but he did it WILLINGLY for you.
If you are expecting sinless perfection by works, then you will not find that, but will only end up condemning yourself, living in a deadly SIN-CONSCIOUSNESS, uncertainty of your salvation, constant prayer of forgiveness and worst of all FEAR OF HELL. Oh, you even said that you are being compelled about hell. You see that?
Now, before I go in details what grace is all about, I will like to give you a picture of what it looks like. And that boils down to our sinful nature and what happened at the cross.
When we were left to die and take the PUNISHMENT for our Past, present and future sins(ETERNAL SINS), which is eternal death in hell, Jesus decided to come. And guess what he did? I imagine him quoting rom 6:23; that the WAGES of our past, present and future sin is death but the FREE GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE. He now said; "okay I am going to pay for ALL the wages of your ETERNAL SINS, so that you can have access to the FREE GIFT of God, not withstanding sin". He said; "though you MERIT to REAP eternal death, but this time around, the law of sow and reap is not going to function again, because all the bad you have sowed, sowing and will ever sow, is what I am about to reap, so that I can give you eternal righteousness, eternal justification, eternal redemption, eternal holiness. Finally, he took our death and WILFULLY laid it on himself, and gave us his life. This is what is called GRACE. How dare you say you merit such love? Of course, you wouldn't say that, because it is really an UNMERITED favour.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were YET SINNERS(lairs, murderers, fornicators, idolators) , christ died for us.
The punishment of the eternal sins of a world without end, which christ suffered can NEVER be of any effect to people who think that they can HYPOCRITICALLY STRIVE TO LOOK sinless perfect before men, rather christ died for us, HELPLESS and POWERLESS SINNERS, when we were not even trying to look righteous. We were absolute sinners, when he died!
Now, why are we sinners? We are NOT sinners because we commit sin. We are sinners because of what adam DID TO US ETERNALLY. Very terrible! Before you EVER committed your first sin, you were ALREADY a sinner. YOU WERE ETERNALLY BORN A SINNER, BECAUSE IT WAS IMPUTED ON YOU WITH NO WORKS FOR THE SAKE OF WHAT ADAM DID. Why, but I have not sinned at that time? Yes, that's exactly the problem.
Rom 5:12;" Therefore, just as sin came into the world THROUGH ONE MAN, and death through sin, and so death spread to ALL men because ALL SINNED". That is to say, that sin entered through one man, Adam, and it was imputed unto all men WITH NO WORKS.
When we were sinners, we were so WRETCHED, GUILTY, CAPTIVATED, and SO POWERLESS to deliver ourselves. Imagine that we had a salvation bank account and in our account we were not having zero rather, we were having "minus", OWING.
Now, in that position, we were fornicators, criminals, lairs, idolators and so on, who COULDN'T help themselves. God through his son, Jesus, decided to save humanity, by taking our ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.
You know that when someone is being kidnapped and is about to be liberated, usually a RANSOM must be rendered before the kidnapped can be liberated. We were kidnapped by the devil, and for God to save us, he has to offer a RANSOM.
And the ransom must be a man because it was a man,adam, that lost everything, who will take on himself the ETERNAL PUNISHMENT of others. At this point, God searched among the people but couldn't find one without sin, who could carry out this mission, because, we ALL were in the same bondage, nobody had the power to deliver himself let alone delivering others.
So God decided to come by himself in the likeness of man, in the person of Jesus. But how sure are we that Jesus is really God? Isaiah 9:6"For to us a Child shall be born, to us a Son shall be given; And the government shall be upon His shoulder, And His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, MIGHTY GOD, EVERLATING FATHER, Prince of Peace."
Jesus didn't pay for our sins, he, himself, IS THE PAYMENT FOR SIN. Glory!!!!
When he came, he saw that ALL MEN were already condemned to death because of sin, he decided to take our place.
At times, when preachers tell people about the message of the cross, they normally stop at the last paragraph. But, what happen there was not JUST what I wrote there.
To make you understand grace more, I have to break down the death of jesus here.
Note: the wages of sin is not ordinary death, rather death in hell(spiritual)
We were NOT forgiven because we were sorry for our sinful nature, or because we decided to be TRYING to live well or because of our prayer of forgiveness, these things does NOT WASH your sins away. We were forgiven because somebody decided to take the punishment of our eternal sins.
If a criminal is tried in a law court, proven guilty and condemned to death sentence. No matter how the criminal cries, begs, ask for forgiveness, it doesn't change the case. One thing that is certain is that JUSTICE must be done to the CRIME committed. The ONLY solution that can make the criminal to be forgiven, is that somebody WILLINGLY offered himself, to take up the punishment of the criminal, by being sentenced to death IN PLACE of the criminal. That's what happened in our case, but Jesus shed his blood for the forgiveness of our sins.
Stay in grace

ValentineMary:
How did the sun stand still during Joshua's time because from my lessons, the sun is relatively static

Splinz:


Don't be ridiculous, scoffer! The sun represent the day just as the moon by night. The case in point was for daytime to remain for as long as it takes to finish what Joshua was doing. We have day and night because of the earth rotation, but the EMPHASIS here was DAYTIME represented by the sun! It would make no sense to say "Let the earth stood still" when the earth actually controls both day and night, and what Joshua needed here was the sun or day! Joshua wasn't in a geography class teaching geography student, hence, the static or non static of the sun doesn't arise.

And of course, there's what is called PERSONIFICATION in literature, and I'll advise you to go and learn its meaning!

promise101:

I decided not to answer any atheist on this thread, but I just want to finally explain the confusion.

According to what you said, it was not God that narrated the incident, the incident was not received by revelation, rather it was an eye-witnessed incident. And it was written down, as witnessed.

So, the problem there was that, the eye-witnessed people weren't exposed to the kind of education we have now. That was why, they said it in that way, instead of saying that the earth stood still.

But, to show that it really happened, they knew that the earth stood still, but misinterpreted the event because they weren't exposed to the education we have now.

ValentineMary:

It seems u did not read d ans I gave those who said d same shit u said. Read above and quote me if u are fit enougg to ans

ValentineMary:

Okay let me get it straight, God ment to say d Earth stood still but he could not tell d difference between the earth and d sun

Accept it, the bible is d work of some deranged primitive Jews

Gombs:


God didn't write the Bible... He didn't even translate it. Nice try, but you didn't sound bright while at it.



Again... There was a writer writing the accounts of that day, and he wasn't God.



Your audience will be stupefied, because You totally made no sense at all. Meanwhile, you translated something totally different from what you wanna say.



Accept it, you made no sense at all, not even in the faintest form, in fact your ignorance left me sooooooo amazed at how wide man's ignorance could stretch. Yours deserve an Oscar.

ValentineMary:


Waw u are so smart that u can't understand simple logic.

And obviously u don't know what figurative means.

Splinz:


Thank you! And now, did you say the Law has been abolished? If yes, which of the law, the one that actually defined sin or some other law? As usual, please provide your answers strictly scripturally based.

Peritus:
1. How do you reconcile grace with Matt.5:21-48, where Christ made drastic changes on the old law (Exodus 20), thereby establishing new laws which though of the spirit center on good work?
2. What becomes of one who breaks those Christ's commandments in Matt.5 and the New commandment of love in Jn 13:34, but believes in grace? In other words, one who do not love his neighbours nor enemies, but claims grace. Reconcile it with 1Jn 4:8 that says that if one has no love, he know not God, for God is love.
3. Do you pay tithe?
4. James 2:17, faith without good work is dead being alone. vs 24 you see then, how that by work man is justified not by faith only. These verses suggest that though we are made perfect by grace through faith, but faith cannot stand alone without good work.
5. Jude vs 4 says that some men have slipped into our midst who pervert the teachings of grace to excuse their lasciviousness.

promise101:


5. Let's look into what Jude said.

Jude 1:4;"Some people have slipped in among you
unnoticed. Not long ago they were CONDEMNED in
writing for the following reason: They are people to
WHOM GOD MEANS NOTHING. They use God's
kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom and
DENY our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

Let's study the verse;

1. He said;".....they were condemned....."

Why were they condemned? Because they were unbelievers; people who DON'T BELIEVE in the son of God.

John 3:18;"18 He that BELIEVETH on him is NOT CONDEMNED: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE he hath NO BELIEVED in the name of the only BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD."

2. He said;"....they were people who GOD means NOTHING...."

That means they were more like the atheists, who don't believe in God.


3. "...They use God's kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom and DENY our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

The biblical greek meaning of Kindness is grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ(God).

NOTE: These false teachers he was talking about, does not believe in Jesus, think that God does not exist(making God nothing), and went on to DENY that Jesus is not lord.

4. He said;".....They use God's kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom....."


Now, Jude was not talking about preachers of grace, not at all!

Because there is NO difference between what genuine grace preachers and what paul preached.

God's grace is not a license to sin, rather a license to receive the gift of NO condemnation without the deed of the law.

However, if he was talking about grace preachers like paul who preach against keeping of the law, righteousness by faith, eternal salvation, which is really BIBLICALLY true; he wouldn't have said that the people he was talking about were condemned already, that we don't believe in God(atheism) and that they deny Jesus. NOT AT ALL!


The mistake people make with that verse is that they don't put into consideration, the whole context of
the verse. And they will only end up understanding ONLY the verse that says;".....They use God's kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom....." Which misinterprets gospel preachers because we don't make God's grace a sexual freedom.


Let's go through questions;

1. How can these people who deny God, use his kindness an excuse?

If they are using it consciously, then it means that they have the belief that there is God, but when they do it ignorantly they deny God, though they are under his kindness.

Now, you have to know that God shows kindness both to the believer and unbelievers. People who deny God are IGNORANT of this truth, that's why they pervert it IGNORANTLY by living a life of sexual freedom.

So jude was talking about false teachers, who he said, don't believe in God and deny Jesus and are deceiving people in church.

Since the Law has been TERMINATED, sin is now dead. There you have it: there is no transgression, sin is no longer imputed and sin is dead.

promise101:

1. Yes of course, it was abolished together with sin.
There is no more sin and law!

EP 2:14-16. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of
partition between us;
15. Having ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH THE ENMITY(sin), even
the law of COMMANDMENTS(10) contained in ORDINANCES(630+); for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, HAVING SLAIN(abolished) THE ENMITY(sin) thereby:

2 COR 3:7-14. But if the ministration of death,
written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face,
that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is ABOLISHED:
14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day
remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

COL 2:14. BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of ORDINANCE(law) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY, NAILING(abolishing) IT TO HIS CROSS.;

RO 10: 4. For Christ is the END of the law for
righteousness to every one that BELIEVETH.

RO 7: 6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

HEB 7:18 For there is verily a DISANNULLING of the
commandment going before for the weakness and
unprofitableness thereof.

Romans 4:15 KJV
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where NO LAW is, there is NO TRANSGRESSION.

We can see from the Scriptures above, the Law has
been TERMINATED. Consequently, there is no more
SIN(transgression).

Romans 5:13 KJV
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is
not imputed when there is no law.

Since the Law has been terminated, sin is NOT
imputed anymore. It is under the blood of Jesus.

Romans 7:8 KJV
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment,
wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For
without the law sin was dead.

Since the Law has been TERMINATED, sin is now dead. There you have it: there is no transgression, sin is no longer imputed and sin is dead.



If we transgress those laws, it is sin but it is not imputed on us. And it happens everyday of our life,if we can go and check ourselves with the old law.

2. In the book of 1john, john talked about the law and commandment. But he NEVER said that the commandments are the one that was abolished. See the commandment of the believers he was talking about.

1john 3:23;"His COMMANDMENTS are that we should BELIEVE(faith alone) in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another—as we used to hear him say in person.

His ONLY commandments is to BELIEVE in Jesus and love one another. His new commandment is not the same with the OT laws. OT commandment are based on works of right living, but the NT commandment is based on FAITH alone.


When he went further to say, "love one another" he was NOT talking about sinlessness. Among the grace believers, there is always an AMAZING love in our midst, that many law abiding believers can never have. Love is something normal to us, but does it mean that we are now perfect in love? NEVER!

At times, things that can hinder us from loving can occur, as the human beings we are. In that case, though it is sin, we are not condemned because it has been abolished on his flesh at the cross.

Gombs:
Promise101, i have read through your writings lately and find it worrisome that you're delving out of lane. For example

you cant just wholly write that the law was COMPLETELY TERMINATED, for we know the aspect of the law that was abolished, Paul even said the law was good, in fact, he taught on some of these retained laws, a good example is found in Ephesians 6:1-2.

my question is, what was Paul trying to prove, when he quoted elements of the law (not the aspect abolished by Jesus now)? If the law was wholly terminated, where then does Ephesians 6:1-2 falls?


i saw this line, and I paused



Do you know why CHRISTIANS are dead to sin? Sin is dead?

The christian is DEAD TO SIN, and alive to God, because all of us were born "dead in sin", before we can ever hope to be "dead to sin,". Paul writes in Ephesians 2:1 that before we became Christians, we were all "dead in [our] transgressions and sins." Of course he does not mean that we are physically dead. Rather, the life of a person who has not experienced new life in Christ is characterized by spiritual death. This means that person is separated from God's salvation.

I really don't understand how you arrived at sin is dead!, that is very different from "dead to sin"

Splinz:


Delving out of lane is a small matter cos he can be put back on track. But unfortunately, he's actually lost! Pray for the delusional mind. Perhaps, God's mercy may rescue him.

ValentineMary:

Is that another way of saying my bible got it wrong but I don't want to say it?

Gombs:

God didn't write the Bible... He didn't even translate it.

Gombs:



I find this common with most grace preachers... Alot of them really take it to the extreme. Some folks here took time out to assemble "grace convention"... It's an eyesore considering their submissions, though not all were wrong.

Promise is doing fine, I'm sure he'd retrace his steps.

cloudgoddess:

So why accept any of it as valid?

Gombs:



I wonder where y'all get your reasoning skills from! I said God didn't write the Bible, neither did He translate it... How does this imply He didn't inspire the writers? For example, how did you think the book of Genesis (details of creation) was written down?

Oh! Yeah... You're an atheist. I forgot the big bang or evolution is the core of your beliefs of how creation started. Great!

cloudgoddess:

Stay on track. You argued that the flaws in the bible exist because God was not the author.

Then you turn around and say the parts that you have decided are valid, must be so because God inspired the bible.

Basically, you're using special pleading to defend the sections of the bible that you personally find legitimate, and there are of course Christians out there who would argue that some of the ones you think are valid are actually invalid, etc.

Hence the 33,000 denominations of Christianity that exist,

and the constant bickering that goes on in NL between Christians over the validity/application of certain scriptures.

It's empty cherry-picking, driven by your own confirmation biases.

ValentineMary:
How did the sun stand still during Joshua's time because from my lessons, the sun is relatively static

Gombs:


It's a form of writing, and the writer meant that the earth stood still for Joshua to finish up the war at the time, so that it would not be evening and them enemies flee.

ValentineMary:

Is that another way of saying my bible got it wrong but I don't want to say it?

Amberon:
Olodo, the sun has never been static. The sun moves but its movement round the orbit is infinitesimally low when compared to that of the earth and other planets. I remember telling my geography teacher then that the sun moves because nothing God created is ever static because Everything is in constant vibration.

Scientists didn't know this then, but they do now. Just like they once said the earth was flat. But the bible always said it was round. Nobody believed the bible until scientists came up with their new theory. So also scientists will one day discover GOD but in hell of course.

Peritus:

I cant fault your submission. I'm particularly in love with your statement that, "God's grace is not a license to sin, rather a license to receive the gift of NO condemnation without the deed of the law."
Do you believe in once under grace, always under grace (even when one turns around)? If you do, reconcile it with these:
1.Hebrews 12:14-16, which says we should "pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many BECOME DEFILED; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright”.
2. Galatians 5:4: “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have FALLEN from grace.
3. 1 Corinthians 10:12 “Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he FALL".
4. 1 Corinthians 9:27 “But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CAST AWAY.
5. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will DEPART from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.
I understand from above that grace could be lost due to future unrepentant actions, and/or reverting back to justification by the law. Do you have any contrary view sir?

Amberon:
Revelation 22: 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters , and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Grace is not a gateway ticket to heaven.

The above is one of the last verses in the bible. Not in the old testament. You won't get into heaven without holiness and righteousness otherwise God wouldn't have said this


Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22" Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have
we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name
have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works?

23" And then will I profess unto them, I never knew
you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Amberon:
Its not a form of writing. The sun actually moves. Don't know if the bible said "sun" but if it did then the bible is absolutely correct. Scientists have found out that the sun moves.

God's word is infallible.

Gombs:
Promise101, i have read through your writings lately and find it worrisome that you're delving out of lane. For example

you cant just wholly write that the law was COMPLETELY TERMINATED, for we know the aspect of the law that was abolished, Paul even said the law was good, in fact, he taught on some of these retained laws, a good example is found in Ephesians 6:1-2.

my question is, what was Paul trying to prove, when he quoted elements of the law (not the aspect abolished by Jesus now)? If the law was wholly terminated, where then does Ephesians 6:1-2 falls?


i saw this line, and I paused



Do you know why CHRISTIANS are dead to sin? Sin is dead?

The christian is DEAD TO SIN, and alive to God, because all of us were born "dead in sin", before we can ever hope to be "dead to sin,". Paul writes in Ephesians 2:1 that before we became Christians, we were all "dead in [our] transgressions and sins." Of course he does not mean that we are physically dead. Rather, the life of a person who has not experienced new life in Christ is characterized by spiritual death. This means that person is separated from God's salvation.

I really don't understand how you arrived at sin is dead!, that is very different from "dead to sin"

Gombs:



I find this common with most grace preachers... Alot of them really take it to the extreme. Some folks here took time out to assemble "grace convention"... It's an eyesore considering their submissions, though not all were wrong.

Promise is doing fine, I'm sure he'd retrace his steps.

Splinz:


Delving out of lane is a small matter cos he can be put back on track. But unfortunately, he's actually lost! Pray for the delusional mind. Perhaps, God's mercy may rescue him.