JackBizzle:



You made two important statements

1) U can't put God's omnipotence against himself
2) God cannot do the logical impossible dear aka nonsensical logical absurdities.


Here is my reply to those statements

1) You are admitting that God's omnipotence can't look itself in the mirror. This means that it can't stand an unbiased reflection of itself. It can't live up to scrutiny. This is why I say that omnipotence is a self-refuting contradiction. It is impossible to be able to do everything.

2) You said that God cannot do the logically impossible. Creating a rock that you cannot carry is not logically impossible- it is a very easy task for a human being.

SMH at your stoopidity.

UyiIredia:


SMH at your stoopidity.

Mr. UyiIredia,

Please, respect yourself and respect this thread. We come here to discuss. Have you seen anyone insulting anybody here? If you have a different opinion, please state it without ad hominems.


Cheers

JackBizzle:



Mr. UyiIredia,

Please, respect yourself and respect this thread. We come here to discuss. Have you seen anyone insulting anybody here? If you have a different opinion, please state it without ad hominems.


Cheers

Why will you say God's omnipotence is contradictory when it's not. You've not brought forth evidence that it is. Furthermore by suggesting that it means one can do everything you show you completely misunderstand what it is. God omnipotence is to show His power supersedes that of all of creation since He made it. It doesn't mean He can do everything since God's omnipotence is bound by the laws of logic.

Richirich713:


I don't know , It should be more dry, it should be electrically program to sumhow change its properties at the last second to avoid some1 slipping.



U contradicting urself when u say, a being that has no flaws, has flaws since he has no flaws. It's again like taking about squares with 3 sides.

As I said : "Again Maximum greatest, perfection by definition means no flaws".

"God is a maximally great being, he possesses all qualities that are better to have aka great making properties. Flaws are not better to have, like for real it's called flaws for a reason".

I'm talking about a maximally great being, not perfection in one property, perfection in one property ain't maximal greatness.



U see the problem is mr good has flaws
, he's not maximally great in all properties better to have. He's only perfectly good. He's not a maximally great being meaning by definition he has flaws and he does, he's not all-knowing nor is he all powerful.

If he was all powerful he could easily stop Boko haram, if he was omniscient he could easily stop Boko haram.





How does being omnipotent make God evil and illogical? Also having power doesn't corrupt beings that has no flaws, it's only corrupts humans who have flaws like being greedy and power hungry.




Don't see how this has anything to do with the omnipotent paradox.



Yeah power can be dangerous, doesn't mean it's a flaw. All depends on how u use it.




Nope the existence of God is so logical that his existence can be proved by logic alone.

I can now see the problem. You essentially do not understand what a paradox is, especially a logical paradox.

This is why such a simple bit of logic is not registering with you.


I clearly stated that perfection is a paradox. Perfection means having no flaws but that itself can be a flaw.

^^^
If you can not see the simple paradoxical logic in the above statement, there is no hope for further discussion.



You do realise that being perfect in one thing, sometimes means that you are not perfect in another thing?

JackBizzle:




I can now see the problem. You essentially do not understand what a paradox is, especially a logical paradox.

This is why such a simple bit of logic is not registering with you.


I clearly stated that perfection is a paradox. Perfection means having no flaws but that itself can be a flaw.

^^^
If you can not see the simple paradoxical logic in the above statement, there is no hope for further discussion.



You do realise that being perfect in one thing, sometimes means that you are not perfect in another thing?

There's no hope for this discussion, we both can't repeat things. But thanks for the chat.

UyiIredia:


Why will you say God's omnipotence is contradictory when it's not. You've not brought forth evidence that it is. Furthermore by suggesting that it means one can do everything you show you completely misunderstand what it is. God omnipotence is to show His power supersedes that of all of creation since He made it. It doesn't mean He can do everything since God's omnipotence is bound by the laws of logic.

1) How do you know that God or his omnipotence is not bound by logic? Are you not pulling that out of your behind as an ultimate escape card? Wouldn't that make God illogical if he is not bound by logic?


2) Omnipotence is contradictory. It is impossible to be all powerful. There are things God can not do. Some of his abilities will negate other abilities.

JackBizzle:



1) How do you know that God or his omnipotence is not bound by logic? Are you not pulling that out of your behind as an ultimate escape card? Wouldn't that make God illogical if he is not bound by logic?


2) Omnipotence is contradictory. It is impossible to be all powerful. There are things God can not do. Some of his abilities will negate other abilities.

You just dey yarn nonsense. Omnipotence, I repeat, is not contradictory. All of God's abilities are in harmony. None contradict.

UyiIredia:


You just dey yarn nonsense. Omnipotence, I repeat, is not contradictory. All of God's abilities are in harmony. None contradict.

lol.

Do you think you are making sense? You are just making empty statements with no proof or back up.


How do you arrive at omnipotence not being contradictory?

At least, many scholars or philosophers use a logical approach to define omnipotence and reach a conclusion that it is a paradox because you cant do everything.


You on the other hand, just somehow know without seeing or asking God or using any logic, that God's abilities are all in harmony.




Some religious people amaze me.

Richirich713:


There's no hope for this discussion, we both can't repeat things. But thanks for the chat.

thanks a lot!

dblackninja, hahn, sirwere, kingebukasblog, uruhara, tufanja, reyginus

I need your help, guys.


I made the below statement in bold;


"Perfection is a paradox. Perfection means "no flaws" but then again, perfection itself can be a flaw."
=================================================================

Now, the problem is that we have 2 theists who say that I'm talking nonsense. Please do you guys see reason in the bold comment and is it relatable to the problems with God's omnipotence?

JackBizzle:
dblackninja, hahn, sirwere, kingebukasblog, uruhara, tufanja, reyginus

I need your help, guys.


I made the below statement in bold;


"Perfection is a paradox. Perfection means "no flaws" but then again, perfection itself can be a flaw."
=================================================================

Now, the problem is that we have 2 theists who say that I'm talking nonsense. Please do you guys see reason in the bold comment and is it relatable to the problems with God's omnipotence?

Perfection means impeccable . You are not found wanting in any department . How is it a flaw ? Its like saying a perfect design has flaws - this makes no sense . Something being perfect means free of flaws , flawless

KingEbukasBlog:


Perfection means impeccable . You are not found wanting in any department . How is it a flaw ? Its like saying a perfect design has flaws - this makes no sense . Something being perfect means free of flaws , flawless

If you are perfect, how can you understand imperfection?


Ruminate on that quietly while we wait for others to comment

JackBizzle:





If you are perfect, how can you understand imperfection?


Ruminate on that quietly while we wait for others to comment

Simple : When I'm perfect at something I know when someone is not doing it right . E.g

1. A perfect cook can easily detect an insipid meal , tasteless , not up to accepted standard .

2. A perfect gentleman knows a rogue or tout or a misogynist

Instead imperfection can understand perfection . Imperfection tries to obviate flaws , producing perfection

1.A bad cook can copy the perfect cook in order to do it right

2.A tout would want to be well mannered ,stop being uncouth and try to be a perfect gentleman

THat's why we look at a perfect God to guide us to perfection .

Matthew 5 : 28 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. " - God is a quintessence of perfection , we look unto him to know we are not doing it right . He as a perfect being knows we aint doing it right so he wants us to strive to be like him

Logicboy you dey fall my hand big time !

KingEbukasBlog:


Perfection means impeccable . You are not found wanting in any department . How is it a flaw ? Its like saying a perfect design has flaws - this makes no sense . Something being perfect means free of flaws , flawless

Good. Now apply such definition to theology.

SirWere:


Good. Now apply such definition to theology.

I did that already ! !!

KingEbukasBlog:

I did that already ! !!

Where
**Modified** Seen it......... You disappoint big time.

SirWere:


Where

**Modified**
Seen it......... You disappoint big time.

Haha ... You disappoint big time

JackBizzle:
dblackninja, hahn, sirwere, kingebukasblog, uruhara, tufanja, reyginus

I need your help, guys.

I made the below statement in bold;

"Perfection is a paradox. Perfection means "no flaws" but then again, perfection itself can be a flaw."
=================================================================
Now, the problem is that we have 2 theists who say that I'm talking nonsense. Please do you guys see reason in the bold comment and is it relatable to the problems with God's omnipotence?

Hmmm LB I think you should stop all these type of statements/questions cause clearly not everybody understand them. But since you wanna know whether you're right..yes you are!

The greatest perfection is imperfection This may sound gibberish..but it's not. It takes a quite lot of reasoning to actually understand that.

You cannot have perfection..without imperfection. A question may arise why?

I don't know how best to answer this but let me try and relate it with our understanding... one of the most impressive qualities of any object or person or a company is its ability to improve.

That means it is difficult to say that anything is perfect, unless it can also get better in the future. So how then could it be perfect if it's missing that vital attribute?

So if it is perfect, it must also therefore be imperfect at the same time.

Hope am understood

KingEbukasBlog:


Simple : When I'm perfect at something I know when someone is not doing it right . E.g

1. A perfect cook can easily detect an insipid meal , tasteless , not up to accepted standard .

2. A perfect gentleman knows a rogue or tout or a misogynist

Instead imperfection can understand perfection . Imperfection tries to obviate flaws , producing perfection

1.A bad cook can copy the perfect cook in order to do it right

2.A tout would want to be well mannered ,stop being uncouth and try to be a perfect gentleman

THat's why we look at a perfect God to guide us to perfection .

Matthew 5 : 28 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. " - God is a quintessence of perfection , we look unto him to know we are not doing it right . He as a perfect being knows we aint doing it right so he wants us to strive to be like him

Logicboy you dey fall my hand big time !

1) A perfect cook cannot cook an imperfect meal. 99.9% of Nigerians cook indomie imperfectly and we love it that way. No one follows the direction on the pack because you would use more water. Also, when cooking more than 3 packs of indomie, most people will use n-1 (1 less) bag of sauce.

If one was to cook indomie perfectly, he would not only follow the exact directions on the indomie pack but also use the given amount of sauce. Which we don't.


2) Some women love arrogance and rough behaviours. They love the bad boys. Olamide has girlfriends doesnt he? Orubebe is married and Floyd Mayweather with his toutishness and misogyny has babymamas. A perfect gentleman can be boring. Chris Brown beat Rihanna but the love dey strong.



Perfection comes with its own problems.

dblackninja:


Hmmm LB I think you should stop all these type of statements/questions cause clearly not everybody understand them. But since you wanna know whether you're right..yes you are!

The greatest perfection is imperfection This may sound gibberish..but it's not. It takes a quite lot of reasoning to actually understand that.

You cannot have perfection..without imperfection. A question may arise why?

I don't know how best to answer this but let me try and relate it with our understanding... one of the most impressive qualities of any object or person or a company is its ability to improve.

That means it is difficult to say that anything is perfect, unless it can also get better in the future. So how then could it be perfect if it's missing that vital attribute?

So if it is perfect, it must also therefore be imperfect at the same time.

Hope am understood

The japanese have a concept called Kaizen. It means continuous improvement. You try to improve yourself everyday. A oerfect person would fail at such a philosophy

A perfect person would remain stagnant while someone who is imperfect has room to improve. There is always better.

@ johnydon22 Finished reading about the Fermi's paradox. In a summary what's your take on the paradox. Do you accept Enrico Fermi's view?
Meanwhile I saw an article somewhere about the solutions to the paradox.

dblackninja:


Hmmm LB I think you should stop all these type of statements/questions cause clearly not everybody understand them. But since you wanna know whether you're right..yes you are!

The greatest perfection is imperfection This may sound gibberish..but it's not. It takes a quite lot of reasoning to actually understand that.

You cannot have perfection..without imperfection. A question may arise why?

I don't know how best to answer this but let me try and relate it with our understanding... one of the most impressive qualities of any object or person or a company is its ability to improve.

That means it is difficult to say that anything is perfect, unless it can also get better in the future. So how then could it be perfect if it's missing that vital attribute?

So if it is perfect, it must also therefore be imperfect at the same time.

Hope am understood

When I throw a dart and it hits the bull's eye , isn't it called a perfect shot ? Does it need to hit other areas of the dartboard before perfection would be attained ? And a 100 percent score in a test is a perfect score . Straight A1s can be described as a perfect result .

Anyway we are saying the same thing , imperfection can be moulded to perfection . But that does not mean there is no perfect state of anything . E.g The bull's eye of a dartboard when hit can be described as a perfect shot , straight As , 100 percent test score

In fact most desirable results can be described as perfect - the taste of food after cooking , old wine , the beauty of art

Desirable states can be described as perfect - a healthy body , if something goes according to the plan . How was the wedding ? It was perfect

Anything suitable under a particular circumstance can be described as perfect - silence to a foolish talk can be described as a perfect response/reaction

Anything perfect can be described through perception - I may see something as perfect , and you may see something as faulty , Good sex after a hot shower can be described as a perfect way couples should bond during cold nights , I can say disagree by insisting couples should read a book or go through their photo albums as a perfect way to bond during cold nights .

So young man learn to see things in different perspectives .

JackBizzle:


The japanese have a concept called Kaizen. It means continuous improvement. You try to improve yourself everyday. A perfect person would fail at such a philosophy

A perfect person would remain stagnant while someone who is imperfect has room to improve. There is always better.

Exactly, and that's the paradox. The Greek philosopher Empedocles pointed out that if the world were perfect, it could not improve and so would lack "true perfection,"

JackBizzle:



1) A perfect cook cannot cook an imperfect meal. 99.9% of Nigerians cook indomie imperfectly and we love it that way. No one follows the direction on the pack because you would use more water. Also, when cooking more than 3 packs of indomie, most people will use n-1 (1 less) bag of sauce.

If one was to cook indomie perfectly, he would not only follow the exact directions on the indomie pack but also use the given amount of sauce. Which we don't.


2) Some women love arrogance and rough behaviours. They love the bad boys. Olamide has girlfriends doesnt he? Orubebe is married and Floyd Mayweather with his toutishness and misogyny has babymamas. A perfect gentleman can be boring. Chris Brown beat Rihanna but the love dey strong.



Perfection comes with its own problems.

You do realise that they are indeed perfect and whatever approach or way you choose to see it does not preclude the perfection . So that does not mean its a flaw , you just think its a problem .

KingEbukasBlog:


When I throw a dart and it hits the bull's eye , isn't it called a perfect shot ? Does it need to hit other areas of the dartboard before perfection would be attained ? And a 100 percent score in a test is a perfect score . Straight A1s can be described as a perfect result .

Anyway we are saying the same thing , imperfection can be moulded to perfection . But that does not mean there is no perfect state of anything . E.g The bull's eye of a dartboard when hit can be described as a perfect shot , straight As , 100 percent test score

In fact most desirable results can be described as perfect - the taste of food after cooking , old wine , the beauty of art

Desirable states can be described as perfect - a healthy body , if something goes according to the plan . How was the wedding ? It was perfect

Anything suitable under a particular circumstance can be described as perfect - silence to a foolish talk can be described as a perfect response/reaction

Anything perfect can be described through perception - I may see something as perfect , and you may see something as faulty , Good sex after a hot shower can be described as a perfect way couples should bond during cold nights , I can say disagree by insisting couples should read a book or go through their photo albums as a perfect way to bond during cold nights .

So young man learn to see things in different perspectives .

Seriously speaking I don't know how to explain this paradox because it requires deep thinking. We need to zoom out of the box to get this.

I want you to think deep on these..

If our bodies don’t self-heal and our cells don’t self-improve, we die. But if our minds constantly strive to improve, we are never satisfied, and we are always struggling to be good enough… then we suffer.

If I am in perfect health, then why will I die? If my mood is often less-than-perfect, why does my wife still love me?

JackBizzle:



The japanese have a concept called Kaizen. It means continuous improvement. You try to improve yourself everyday. A oerfect person would fail at such a philosophy

A perfect person would remain stagnant while someone who is imperfect has room to improve. There is always better.

Ugh ! When you are perfect . Whatever improvement to be made its just getting to be like you . Let's look at the guy who made a 5.0 cgpa - a perfect result - every 100 level student would strive to finish with that result or something close to it 4.95 , 4.9 , 4.8 , 4.85 . That perfection was maintained by that guy all through his 100 to 400 level - getting a 5.0 gp . How is this abstruse ? Can you get better than a 5.0 cgpa?

You guys are close-minded and are still obdurate about your 'continuous improvement brings perfection' nonsense .

KingEbukasBlog:


You do realise that they are indeed perfect and whatever approach or way you choose to see it does not preclude the perfection . So that does not mean its a flaw , you just think its a problem .

open your mind. Dont close it to the deeper issues surrounding perfection.

A perfectly cooked indomie will take about anywhere from 8-15 minutes

You can cook indomie imperfectly in 7 minutes.


When time is limited, do you try to use the perfect style to cook indomie?

Perfection requires you to take time and do everything to the best standard- not always effective, is it?

dblackninja:

Seriously speaking I don't know how to explain this paradox because it requires deep thinking. We need to zoom out of the box to get this.

I want you to think deep on these..

If our bodies don’t self-heal and our cells don’t self-improve, we die. But if our minds constantly strive to improve, we are never satisfied, and we are always struggling to be good enough… then we suffer.

If I am in perfect health, then why will I die? If my mood is often less-than-perfect, why does my wife still love me?

Bro . Thats why I said desirable states can be described as perfect . I'm in perfect health means no sickness , sickness can be a flaw . That does not mean the person wont die a natural death .

This is so simple , stop obfuscating it .

JackBizzle:


open your mind. Dont close it to the deeper issues surrounding perfection.

A perfectly cooked indomie will take about anywhere from 8-15 minutes

You can cook indomie imperfectly in 7 minutes.


When time is limited, do you try to use the perfect style to cook indomie?

Perfection requires you to take time and do everything to the best standard- not always effective, is it?

You just said it 'a perfect cooked indome will take about everywhere from 8-15 minutes' . Anything less - cooked before that duration - does not mean that the 8-15 minutes-cooked indomie has a flaw .

KingEbukasBlog:


Ugh ! When you are perfect . Whatever improvement to be made its just getting to be like you . Let's look at the guy who made a 5.0 cgpa - a perfect result - every 100 level student would strive to finish with that result or something close to it 4.95 , 4.9 , 4.8 , 4.85 . That perfection was maintained by that guy all through his 100 to 400 level - getting a 5.0 gp . How is this abstruse ? Can you get better than a 5.0 cgpa?

You guys are close-minded and are still obdurate about your 'continuous improvement brings perfection' nonsense .

And yet, with his 5.0 score, he does not have the best job or highest IQ. His perfect score will be his greatest flaw in achieving greatness. All the parties and networking he missed in university will affect him in the future. He will never be president because he lacked and will still lack the social skills to do so. That is what studying for a perfect GP will do to you.



That 5.0 gp is only one score out of many. I know many first classers who are crammers. Did they truly learn or just learn to pass exams well? They can't sit down we me and johnydon22 to discuss philosophical issues.

KingEbukasBlog:


You just said it 'a perfect cooked indome will take about everywhere from 8-15 minutes' . Anything less - cooked before that duration - does not mean that the 8-15 minutes-cooked indomie has a flaw .

When it comes to saving time, the perfect indomie is flawed. Save time and cook the quickie indomie.

Checkmate!

JackBizzle:



And yet, with his 5.0 score, he does not have the best job or highest IQ. His perfect score will be his greatest flaw in achieving greatness. All the parties and networking he missed in university will affect him in the future. He will never be president because he lacked and will still lack the social skills to do so. That is what studying for a perfect GP will do to you.



That 5.0 gp is only one score out of many. I know many first classers who are crammers. Did they truly learn or just learn to pass exams well? They can't sit down we me and johnydon22 to discuss philosophical issues.

You are deviating from the point . He did make a perfect score . Its PERFECT because its 5.0/5.0 and he made it all through his 100 to 400 level . You are limiting your knowledge of perfection to human behavior !