Hello Everyone

Today I will be proofing the physical existence of reincarnation. Christians before you bash my thread and argue blindly that reincarnation doesn't exist. Here is your homework Christians, please read this bible verse carefully:

"But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him…" Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. Matt 17:12-13

I will be right back

1. The Child Born With Bullet Wounds

Ian Stevenson was a psychiatry professor from the University of Virginia who focused on reincarnation. In 1993, he published a paper in the Journal of Scientific Exploration detailing birthmarks and birth defects seemingly linked to past-life memories. According to his findings, the majority of birth defects are thought to be formed by “unknown causes.” In one case, a child in Turkey remembered the life of a man who was killed by a shotgun. Hospital records told of a man who had died after six days of injuries caused by a blast to the right side of his skull. The boy in question was born with unilateral microtia—a malformed ear—and hemifacial microsomia, which is the underdevelopment of the right side of his face. Microtia occurs in roughly 1 in 6,000 babies, while microsomia is estimated to occur in 1 in 3,500 babies

2. Born Knowing Swedish

Psychiatry professor Ian Stevenson investigated numerous cases of the phenomenon of xenoglossy, which is defined as “speaking a real language entirely unknown to (the speaker) in his ordinary state.” The definition was coined originally by Charles Richet between 1905 and 1907. Richet was a Nobel Prize–winning doctor, whose interests and research spanned many areas, including parapsychology. Stevenson investigated a 37-year-old American woman whom he called TE. TE was born and raised in Philadelphia, the daughter of immigrant parents who spoke English, Polish, Yiddish, and Russian at home while she was growing up. She studied French while in school. Her only exposure to Swedish was a few phrases spoken in a television show about the lives of Swedish Americans. However, while under eight different regression hypnosis sessions, TE became “Jensen Jacoby,” a male Swedish peasant. As Jensen, TE answered questions posed in the Swedish language with Swedish responses, using about 60 words not first spoken by the Swedish-speaking interviewer. TE as Jensen was also able to answer English questions with English answers. Stevenson gave TE two polygraph tests, a word association test, and a language aptitude test, all of which she answered as though Swedish. He also spoke to her husband, family members, and acquaintances about her aptitude or exposure to Scandinavian languages. All agreed that she had none. No Scandinavian languages were taught in the schools TE had attended. That said, TE as Jensen was not fluent. The transcript of the session shows that TE as Jensen had a vocabulary of roughly only 100 words and rarely spoke in full sentences. In fact, there were no complex sentences at all, despite Jensen supposedly being an adult male. The accent was praised, however, by Stevenson’s consultants. In an added twist, several specialists pointed out that the language was mixed with Norwegian.

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Reincaration Hell no. Let me die and let my soul rest.

Divinerspell:
Hello Everyone

Today I will be proofing the physical existence of reincarnation. Christians before you bash my thread and argue blindly that reincarnation doesn't exist. Here is your homework Christians, please read this bible verse carefully:

"But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him…" Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. Matt 17:12-13

I will be right back

Now op, that place you quoted took place after the revelation on the Mount of Transfiguration where Moses and ,....Elijah appeared to Jesus! The implication is that John the Baptist was NOT Elijah. Else, there would have been at least a faint allusion thereto either by Jesus or the disciples. If John was Elijah reincarnated, and transfiguration took place with Moses and Elijah appearing, where was John?

3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Jesus Matthew 17:3

Scholar8200:


Now op, that place you quoted took place after the revelation on the Mount of Transfiguration where Moses and ,....Elijah appeared to Jesus! The implication is that John the Baptist was NOT Elijah. Else, there would have been at least a faint allusion thereto either by Jesus or the disciples. If John was Elijah reincarnated, and transfiguration took place with Moses and Elijah appearing, where was John?

3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Jesus Matthew 17:3

Wasn't John already dead before the transfiguration?

johnydon22:



Wasn't John already dead before the transfiguration?

Sure he was, the more reason why, if John was Elijah reincarnated, the person seen on the mount should have been John not Elijah!

Besides, Peter and the rest knew John so if the person they saw on the mount was John, at least there should have been an allusion thereto!

Scholar8200:
Sure he was, the more reason why, if John was Elijah reincarnated, the person seen on the mount should have been John not Elijah!

Besides, Peter and the rest knew John so if the person they saw on the mount was John, at least there should have been an allusion thereto!

Nope Since Elijah was the default person reincarnated as John according to the bible it makes more sense that he should return to his default personality as Elijah after his task was done as John.

So on the mount it wasn't misplaced he appeared as Elijah instead of John, that would actually be the most likely case.

"But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him…"
Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the
Baptist. Matt 17:12-13

this verse the OP quoted affirms that the biblical position is that John was the reincarnated Elijah sent to prepare a road for Jesus.

So whether he appeared in the mountain as John or Elijah it remains that he had the two personalities and it would have been more expected that he used his default personality of Elijah.

The OP actually makes a strong case: The bible actually supported reincarnation and to fault this is also to agree the bible is wrong.

Your ball sir

johnydon22:


Nope Since Elijah was the default person reincarnated as John according to the bible it makes more sense that he should return to his default personality as Elijah after his task was done as John.

So on the mount it wasn't misplaced he appeared as Elijah instead of John, that would actually be the most likely case.

"But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him…"
Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the
Baptist. Matt 17:12-13

this verse the OP quoted affirms that the biblical position is that John was the reincarnated Elijah sent to prepare a road for Jesus.

So whether he appeared in the mountain as John or Elijah it remains that he had the two personalities and it would have been more expected that he used his default personality of Elijah.

The OP actually makes a strong case: The bible actually supported reincarnation and to fault this is also to agree the bible is wrong.

Your ball sir

The proponents of reincarnation believe that it occurs after death, but Elijah did not die!

Besides, this is what it says:

It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous [which is to seek and submit to the will of God]—in order to make ready a people [perfectly] prepared [spiritually and morally] for the Lord.”
Luke 1:17

Now before anyone assumes that this means Elijah's spirit(human) see:

And when they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “Please let a double [b]portion of [size=14pt]your spirit[/size] be upon me.”
2 Kings 2:9

[size=13pt]Meaning, John would be coming with the mantle/anointing of Elijah and this will enable him do a specific thing (out of all Elijah did) viz:[/size]

It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous [which is to seek and submit to the will of God]—in order to make ready a people [perfectly] prepared [spiritually and morally] for the Lord.”
Luke 1:17

Elijah did that on Mount Carmel

Scholar8200:
The proponents of reincarnation believe that it occurs after death, but Elijah did not die! Besides, this is what it says:

So it can be concluded Elijah is still alive in the flesh and blood in heaven right now? And also appeared with Moses (already dead) with same Characteristics of a spirit?

Now before anyone assumes that this means Elijah's spirit(human) see:

And when they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “Please let a double [b]portion of [size=14pt]your spirit[/size] be upon me.”
2 Kings 2:9

You see i had to move this one a little up first because the spirit you mentioned up is translated in most biblical texts as Power

But luke 1:17 mentioned both Spirit and power so this falls sorely on the translation

It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous [which is to seek and submit to the will of God]—in order to make ready a people [perfectly] prepared [spiritually and morally] for the Lord.”
Luke 1:17

Since both spirit and power are mentioned here the spirit talked about by Elishah in 2kings 2:9 cannot be same as the spirit talked about here since the 2kings 2:9 spirit is broadly referring to power and not actual spirit.

But here we have both power and spirit in bold texts.... How then do you hope to conclude using reference to 2kings 2:9 that the Spirit mentioned in both verses have one and the same meaning.

Meaning, John would be coming with the mantle/anointing of Elijah and this will enable him do a specific thing (out of all Elijah did) viz:

It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous [which is to seek and submit to the will of God]—in order to make ready a people [perfectly] prepared [spiritually and morally] for the Lord.”
Luke 1:17

Elijah did that on Mount Carmel

Spirit and power here means separate things, so if the verse mentioned would come in the spirit of Elijah only then it would have been reconcilable even though actual greek text would still be needed for evaluation.

but it so remains that matt 17:12-13 explicitly recognized John as a reincarnated Elijah.

johnydon22:



You see i had to move this one a little up first because the spirit you mentioned up is translated in most biblical texts as Power

What I find mentioned in the Hebrew is spirit!
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_kings/2-9.htm

But luke 1:17 mentioned both Spirit and power so this falls sorely on the translation

Not really. There are other passages that speak of Spirit and fire. We know this refers to the Personality and His action/operation:
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luke 3:16

Since both spirit and power are mentioned here the spirit talked about by Elishah in 2kings 2:9 cannot be same as the spirit talked about here since the 2kings 2:9 spirit is broadly referring to power and not actual spirit.

not really! How about this:

And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

Numbers 11:17

Meaning the spirit that was upon not within. Like wise Elijah. The purpose has always been to enable the recipient do what the other did as the blue highlighted shows.

But here we have both power and spirit in bold texts.... How then do you hope to conclude using reference to 2kings 2:9 that the Spirit mentioned in both verses have one and the same meaning.




Spirit and power here means separate things, so if the verse mentioned would come in the spirit of Elijah only then it would have been reconcilable even though actual greek text would still be needed for evaluation.

but it so remains that matt 17:12-13 explicitly recognized John as a reincarnated Elijah.

Besides, the coming of Elijah was already prophesied over 400 years in Malachi meaning this had NOTHING to do with reincarnation. The prophesy of course was not to cause them to expect the OT Elijah just as the prophesy below was not to cause them to expect the OT David:

"'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees.
Ezekiel 37:24

Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.
Jeremiah 30:9

In case you want to claim these verses as reincarnation, note that they have not yet been fulfilled!