bindex:

Has it ever occurred to you that he might have once considered the bible to be true but left it after knowing that it isn't true so he decided to look else where? The bible does not explain how life came about at all it only makes wild claims without any evidence at all that are NOT true.

If every body will just drop his ego then I do not know will be a better answer to all these questions. I once tried to subscribe to evolution but I know its all another piece of conjecture no different from creationism so i dropped it off. The big bang is just another conjecture modern scientist use in recreating how they believe the universe came about but the BB it self has a lot of holes and provides no evidence at all. The universe did not come about from a big bang, Creationism (of all religions) is just the how medieval men thought the earth and what is contained it came about nothing more. The FACT still remains that nobody truly knows how the universe actually came about all we have are wild guesses and conjectures with no evidence to support them at all. I don't know is the best position to take for now because that is the truth for now no body knows.

the usual personality attack that adds NOTHING to the topic at hand.

you say the bible makes claims without evidence . . . BUT YET we have an entire thread devoted to someone's conjecture that has NO EVIDENCE and you're not equally as appalled as you would be if this had been a discussion on creationism?

If no one has any clue how the world came to be, what is the basis for rejecting the biblical view?

davidylan:

Chris . . . as usual you're looking at energy from the wrong side of the coin. You've been hammering on it not being ever fully destroyed . . . have you wondered how that energy came to be in the first place? What does it mean by energy being default? Default from where?

I dont THINK evolution is mumbo jumbo, i KNOW it is basically nonsense cooked up by those desperate for an anti-creationist excuse.

Ok first off I am actually looking at the wrong side of the coin and you are right it is all conjecture I am pretty sure I am 99% wrong, but let me first settle something I think is long overdue with you david.
Do I think the evolutionists are more persuasive than creationists, well yes I do, they have got a knack for making it look interesting , that aside maybe it is just the fact that they are saying we did not just come from dust that appeals to me, or maybe its the glaring striking characteristics between us and the apes that gets to me. The problem I have with creationism is simple I do not believe the bible is the word of God, simple and plain. I do not believe that God exists as the bible or as any biblical texts have written it, I know it reeks of stupidity to you but hey is everyone else not a lot stupider than we are

Now back to this thread, I raised this thread because of Deep sights empirical reasoning thread, and I can see now that I should made my original post a lot more explanatory, in plain terms

WHAT IF ENERGY ALWAYS EXISTED?

Its the wrong side of the coin because people are adept to thinking that everything had to have a creation point, but what if energy in all its various forms never had a beginning? I don't know if you guys get my point.

davidylan:

the usual personality attack that adds NOTHING to the topic at hand.

Please your paranoia is really getting out of hand, where did I attack you personally please? Learn to know that people are not out to get you when they disagree with you.

you say the bible makes claims without evidence . . . BUT YET we have an entire thread devoted to someone's conjecture that has NO EVIDENCE and you're not equally as appalled as you would be if this had been a discussion on creationism?

Did he tell you that his conjecture is true? Sure his conjecture is no different from that of the bible because all of them have no evidence to back them up. Where did I say that I was appalled by creationism? . You talked about how false the theory of evolution and the BB were nobody said that you were appalled by them. As usual your paranoia knows no bounds. People that do not agree with what you believe are not necessarily out to get you.

If no one has any clue how the world came to be, what is the basis for rejecting the biblical view?

A look at the earth and universe says that the creation account written in genesis is only a wild conjecture.

bindex:



Please your paranoia is really getting out of hand, where did I attack you personally please? Learn to know that people are not out to get you when they disagree with you.

Did he tell you that his conjecture is true? Sure his conjecture is no different from that of the bible because all of them have no evidence to back them up. Where did I say that I was appalled by creationism? . You talked about how false the theory of evolution and the BB were nobody said that you were appalled by them. As usual your paranoia knows no bounds. People that do not agree with what you believe are not necessarily out to get you.

A look at the earth and universe says that the creation account written in genesis is only a wild conjecture.

you just confirmed my hunch. Responding to you is a wasted effort as you're not rationally sane enough to comprehend sound judgement. Good luck.

davidylan:

you just confirmed my hunch. Responding to you is a wasted effort as you're not rationally sane enough to comprehend sound judgement. Good luck.

You displayed a pure case of paranoia by falsely accusing me of personal insulting you when I did no such thing at all and you claim to be rationally sane to comprehend sound judgment while I am unable to do so? . Learn to know that people are not out to get you when they disagree with you. Good luck to you too.

Chrisbenogor:

Do I think the evolutionists are more persuasive than creationists, well yes I do, they have got a knack for making it look interesting  

I dont think the evolutionists have a more persuasive argument than creationists . . . i think the problem is a lot of people are desperate for an excuse not to consider the creationist angle. Daring to accept the creationist theory would force you to play by God's rules which no one wants to.
the rejection of creationism is not really the goal here, rejection of God is . . . rejecting creationism is simply one more excuse.

Chrisbenogor:

that aside maybe it is just the fact that they are saying we did not just come from dust that appeals to me

This strikes me as funny. Evolutionists say we did not come from dust and it appeals to you? Even though their alternative is that you come from err dust too . . . popularly known as primordial soup?  

Chrisbenogor:

or maybe its the glaring striking characteristics between us and the apes that gets to me.

Glaring characteristics dont mean much . . . why hasnt an ape morphed into a human ever since? There are glaring characteristics between a goat and a cow but are they the same?

Chrisbenogor:

The problem I have with creationism is simple I do not believe the bible is the word of God, simple and plain.
I do not believe that God exists as the bible or as any biblical texts have written it, I know it reeks of stupidity to you but hey is everyone else not a lot stupider than we are  

I didnt even see this when i typed my first response to your post. Its clear that creationism isnt the problem, that you must submit your will to God is the ultimate problem!

Thank you at least for being honest.

Chrisbenogor:

Now back to this thread, I raised this thread because of Deep sights empirical reasoning thread, and I can see now that I should made my original post a lot more explanatory, in plain terms

WHAT IF ENERGY ALWAYS EXISTED?

Its the wrong side of the coin because people are adept to thinking that everything had to have a creation point, but what if energy in all its various forms never had a beginning? I don't know if you guys get my point.

That would make absolutely no sense at all . . . energy cannot always have existed. If it did then can you explain in what form it existed and how it was able to generate such massive galaxies but place humans ONLY on one out of thousands of planets?

davidylan:

I dont think the evolutionists have a more persuasive argument than creationists . . . i think the problem is a lot of people are desperate for an excuse not to consider the creationist angle. Daring to accept the creationist theory would force you to play by God's rules which no one wants to.
the rejection of creationism is not really the goal here, rejection of God is . . . rejecting creationism is simply one more excuse.

Again you make up a false theory and believe it is true. I personally threw away creationism because it does not make any sense to me based on what I know about the earth and the universe as a whole. There are so many people that believe in the god of the bible but still do not believe in the genesis accounts because it does not make sense to them. There are millions of christians that believe in evolution and the BB not in creationism. So your theory of people not believing in creationism because they do not want to play by your god's rule is actually false considering that there are a lot of people that believe in jesus but do not believe in the creation accounts in genesis.

As for playing by god's rule all I have to say is god's rules or man's rules? You have no evidence at all to show that any god gave any law or rule to any man, all you have are men writing down rules and laws and saying that god told them to write it. What is your basis for believing that the bible is the word of god and not the hindu text? is it because you were brought up in a culture that accepts the bible as the word of god?

davidylan:

I dont think the evolutionists have a more persuasive argument than creationists . . . i think the problem is a lot of people are desperate for an excuse not to consider the creationist angle. Daring to accept the creationist theory would force you to play by God's rules which no one wants to.
the rejection of creationism is not really the goal here, rejection of God is . . . rejecting creationism is simply one more excuse.

This strikes me as funny. Evolutionists say we did not come from dust and it appeals to you? Even though their alternative is that you come from err dust too . . . popularly known as primordial soup?


Glaring characteristics dont mean much . . . why hasnt an ape morphed into a human ever since? There are glaring characteristics between a goat and a cow but are they the same?

I didnt even see this when i typed my first response to your post. Its clear that creationism isnt the problem, that you must submit your will to God is the ultimate problem!

Thank you at least for being honest.

That would make absolutely no sense at all . . . energy cannot always have existed. If it did then can you explain in what form it existed and how it was able to generate such massive galaxies but place humans ONLY on one out of thousands of planets?

David,
Most times it seems as though most atheists have not tried to believe in God, you know my life would be spot on if I just added the I believe in God part to it I am telling you david I would be in serious money, really really serious money. All my life I lived as a christian, I have been full blown in my beliefs for under a year now and it is not easy david. Again I know you will not agree but I did try in my own way, I was born into the catholic church and I lived my life being a devout catholic, I did all that was required of me albeit as much as I understood the whole church thing then. So even though I cannot change your mind, I know I did give it my best shot, it did not work.

That said I have said I am 99% wrong agreed, but again I ask do you know of any method to change something to nothing? Why can energy not have always existed, explain.

hahaha. Something about us being a bunch of apes grosses people out. We all want to feel special. . .aaaawww.

that doesn't change the fact that millions of years ago we were swinging on trees

@ chris. . .i think energy has to come from a force. Energy is the amount of work a force can do.

bindex:


As for playing by god's rule all I have to say is god's rules or man's rules? You have no evidence at all to show that any god gave any law or rule to any man, all you have are men writing down rules and laws and saying that god told them to write it. What is your basis for believing that the bible is the word of god and not the hindu text? is it because you were brought up in a culture that accepts the bible as the word of god?

If he was born into a muslim family I believe that he will be here telling us how the koran is the word of god. . . . .

mazaje:

If he was born into a muslim family I believe that he will be here telling us how the koran is the word of god. . . . .

Hey how dare you do a disappearing act on your thread? theres laws against that you know? no my popcorn is finished!

Chrisbenogor:

Hey how dare you do a disappearing act on your thread? theres laws against that you know? no my popcorn is finished!

Disappearing act for where? I came back and continued. . . . how body?

mazaje:

Disappearing act for where? I came back and continued. . . . how body?

Really , then its back to the cinema, body dey for cloth my broda.

davidylan:

I dont think the evolutionists have a more persuasive argument than creationists . . . i think the problem is a lot of people are desperate for an excuse not to consider the creationist angle. Daring to accept the creationist theory would force you to play by God's rules which no one wants to.
the rejection of creationism is not really the goal here, rejection of God is . . . rejecting creationism is simply one more excuse.

David, i cringe with pain every time i read your misinformation, lies and deceit. I would not have replied but you will end up deceiving may genuine knowledge seekers. Besides i though someone would have pointed out your misinformation by now, but i guess they are tired of repeating the same thing over and over again.

There is nothing to consider in the creationist angle, it is either you believe the two pages of text that deals with the biblical creation story or not. Nothing to reason or argue about. It is 100% belief and faith, just like a believer of any other creation story.

Obviously anybody that rejects the Biblical creation story must also reject the Biblical God.

davidylan:

This strikes me as funny. Evolutionists say we did not come from dust and it appeals to you? Even though their alternative is that you come from err dust too . . . popularly known as primordial soup?  

There is no where in the theory of evolution that says we were made from dust. It is outright falsehood to equate the primordial soup to dust.

Please check the meaning of dust and what it is composed of. If you do not know, ask a geologist.

davidylan:

Glaring characteristics dont mean much . . . why hasnt an ape morphed into a human ever since? There are glaring characteristics between a goat and a cow but are they the same?

Nobody has anybody ever talked about metamorphosis, what we are saying is evolution. An ape can never morph into a human (except in the movies). An ape can not even evolved to a human, they followed different evolutionary path from a common ancestor.
Yes a cow is different from a goat, just like a panther is different from a leopard, a mammoth is different from an elephant and an eagle is different from a falcon. It depends on how far they share a common ancestor.

wirinet:

Besides i though someone would have pointed out your misinformation by now, but i guess they are tired of repeating the same thing over and over again.

haha. In the words of US Senator Barney Frank, "Having a conversation with him (Davidylan) is like trying to argue with my kitchen table. I have no interest in doing that."

Krayola2:

haha. In the words of US Senator Barney Frank, "Having a conversation with him (Davidylan) is like trying to argue with my kitchen table. I have no interest in doing that." 

He lies to himself that people discard the creation myth because they don't want to abile by the rules of his god when there are a lot of christians that believe in what he calls the rule of his god without even believing in the creation accounts in genesis because they know that it is a myth. . . . . .

There are far more christians that believe in evolution here in europe than in the genesis accounts, most of the just call it an allegory. . . . . .

wirinet:

David, i cringe with pain every time i read your misinformation, lies and deceit. I would not have replied but you will end up deceiving may genuine knowledge seekers. Besides i though someone would have pointed out your misinformation by now, but i guess they are tired of repeating the same thing over and over again.

I have a problem with nonsensical, hormone driven nonsense such as the above. Why do these people persist in accusing others of "misinformation, lies, deciet" but WILL NEVER POINT OUT JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF SUCH?

Is this the same person who hasnt read a biology textbook in 25 yrs, has no idea that cancer is caused by mutations who comes here talking about science and accusing others of lies? I really am baffled by the hypocrisy and stupidity that passes for public discourse particularly among Nigerians these days.

wirinet:

There is nothing to consider in the creationist angle, it is either you believe the two pages of text that deals with the biblical creation story or not. Nothing to reason or argue about. It is 100% belief and faith, just like a believer of any other creation story.

this is funny because i have ALWAYS accepted the fact that the christian faith IS A BELIEF! What is knew that you are pointing out?

What i have tried to pass across however is that, your own alternative ala evolution is also 100% belief and faith for the simple reason that neither YOU nor your scientific heroes can provide persuasive evidence!

wirinet:

Obviously anybody that rejects the Biblical creation story must also reject the Biblical God.

Perfectly correct! You cannot claim to accept the biblical God and reject His own story of how He created the world. That you cant figure out this simple logic is just an example of how inane your logical reasoning is.

wirinet:

There is no where in the theory of evolution that says we were made from dust. It is outright falsehood to equate the primordial soup to dust.

What do we equate the primordial soup to? Air?

What a dunce.

wirinet:

Please check the meaning of dust and what it is composed of. If you do not know, ask a geologist.

I did not mean "literary dust" in my earlier post . . . even a totally retarded person could see that because i deliberately added "popularly known as primordial soup".

wirinet:

Nobody has anybody ever talked about metamorphosis, what we are saying is evolution. An ape can never morph into a human (except in the movies). An ape can not even evolved to a human, they followed different evolutionary path from a common ancestor.

You keep singing this tune, where are the facts? Where are the transitional life forms that CLEARLY, UNAMBIGUOUSLY support this your claim? Do we then say that claim is based on 100% faith and belief too like the bible?

wirinet:

Yes a cow is different from a goat, just like a panther is different from a leopard, a mammoth is different from an elephant and an eagle is different from a falcon. It depends on how far they share a common ancestor.

Who was this "common ancestor"? Tell us!

And the dunce had the effontery to accuse me of lies, misinformation and deciet?

Chrisbenogor:

David,
Most times it seems as though most atheists have not tried to believe in God, you know my life would be spot on if I just added the I believe in God part to it I am telling you david I would be in serious money, really really serious money. All my life I lived as a christian, I have been full blown in my beliefs for under a year now and it is not easy david. Again I know you will not agree but I did try in my own way, I was born into the catholic church and I lived my life being a devout catholic, I did all that was required of me albeit as much as I understood the whole church thing then. So even though I cannot change your mind, I know I did give it my best shot, it did not work.

That said I have said I am 99% wrong agreed, but again I ask do you know of any method to change something to nothing? Why can energy not have always existed, explain.

Chris, that you tried catholicism and it didnt work for you is not a repudiation of christianity.

that a person failed out of Harvard does not mean it is no longer one of the top 5 colleges in the world.

Logical reasoning seems to be a problem with you folks.

I totally concur with Krayola2 that any argument with David is like arguing with the Kitchen table, It is senseless. He throws in incoherent arguments all over the place. That Mutation causes cancer, what else does mutation cause, heart attack?. I think he does not know the meanings and terms of what he is arguing about.

He equates evolution to Metamorphosis, mutation to defects in individual cells, etc.

Sometimes i wish i knew who his professors are, so that i can show how bad a job they did on him, by sending some of his posts here on Nairaland to them.

Chris, that you tried catholicism and it didnt work for you is not a repudiation of christianity.

that a person failed out of Harvard does not mean it is no longer one of the top 5 colleges in the world.

Logical reasoning seems to be a problem with you folks.

And you cannot see how you just slandered logic?

I am trying hard here bro, really hard.