01Mysticdon:

I read the summary, I will read the details. I believe Yahweh is not God. But don't you think a powerful force made the universe? That force could be God.

hopefulLandlord:


This is very wrong "ultimate freewill" would mean god doesn't interfere AT ALL

I agree he doesn't, do you?

I'm sure the bible has stories about your god commanding people to kill each other, kill non virgins and take virgins for pleasure, but that's not your God choosing it, is he?

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (Numbers 31:12-18 KJV

Not every human commits adultery

Or maybe he doesn't exist, that's why he can't intervene both in "sin" that pleases us and sins that don't?

That makes more sense


Omniscient god that gives freewill? Hows that possible?

He gave you freewill but knows what you'll chose

Sounds stupid

But your god can command his believers to rape virgins, take people as slaves and maltreat them, he can command entire cities destroyed and burnt to the ground but coming down to order cultists to be shooting around seems impossible for that same god

01Mysticdon:


Where is God?
Why didn't Yahweh they serve capture the cultists?

SenatePresdo:
Hey 01Mysticdon

God gave an ultimate free-will to we humans on earth.
If God intrudes in everything that happens in this world, what then is the essence of the Free-will?

We decide by ourselves when to do good and when to do bad. God doesn't decide that for us.

When we do evil that pleases us, we don't want God to intervene.
When we commit adultery that pleasures us, we don't want God to intervene.

But when evil comes against us, it is then that we would want God to prove that he is omni-present? Humans can't fool God.

God has given us free-will, and he allows us to do anything with it. We should live with the reality that anything that happens in this earth, be it bad or evil is our cause.

God didn't com down to Rivers state and ordered cultists to be shooting around.

So don't blame God, let the evil humans continue misusing the free-will given to them.

hopefulLandlord:


If a force has to create the universe because something can't exist without a creator

Then a force has to have created a force that created the universe

Law of infinite regress sets in

If that force can come to be on its own, then the world can exist on its own

SenatePresdo:


You are implying that once someone serves God, he/she will have to be protected by God all the time.

That means the person will live forever.
That is becoming immortalized and human beings are not immortal.

hopefulLandlord:


The same reason no amount of prayer would make a limb grow

Theists call every ambiguous pleasant occurrence "miracle"


Ever asked why only miracles that's not obvious or can be staged are what hear of?

You think no "faithful" human with one eye totally crushed hasn't prayed for god to stretch forth his hand and give him new eyes?

You think there's no "faithful" amputee that hasn't prayed fervently for god to restore his limb?

hopefulLandlord:


If a force has to create the universe because something can't exist without a creator

Then a force has to have created a force that created the universe

Law of infinite regress sets in

If that force can come to be on its own, then the world can exist on its own

01Mysticdon:

hmm, I don't know what to say

SenatePresdo:


How do you know it is very wrong or correct, Since you don't believe anything concerning God?

Yeah he doesn't interfere in our action.

Did he came from heaven and fought the war himself?
They israelites could still have not fought the war if they didn't want to.
Besides they don't do everything God asked them to do.
So it all boiled down to there free-will.

So if policemen doesn't intervene in a robbery scene, that means policemen doesn't exist?

How is God knowing what you will chose in future against free-will?
Is it not by your free-will that you are claiming God non-existence? Is he giving you daily slaps to worship him?

He is omni-science God, but we are made in his own image. He has free-will, is giving us one a crime?

Through Jesus christ, I know the real nature of God. God is love and that is what I believe.
Look Christianity broke away from judaism.
For you to paste that bible verse is
Re-annexing Judaism with Christianity.

And I'm a Christian oo..

hopefulLandlord:


If a force has to create the universe because something can't exist without a creator

Then a force has to have created a force that created the universe

Law of infinite regress sets in

If that force can come to be on its own, then the world can exist on its own

Ranchhoddas:
The regress has to stop at some point. Don't you agree. There was actually a time/point before the 'beginning' right?

honourhim:



This sounds quite stupld.

hopefulLandlord:


Talk to me please

Why do you say that?

hopefulLandlord:


We don't know where the regress stopped

It could have stopped with the universe, meaning universe creating itself or it could have stopped earlier than the universe

But the logic of everything must have a creator isn't set in stone

01Mysticdon:

I read the summary, I will read the details. I believe Yahweh is not God. But don't you think a powerful force made the universe? That force could be God.

Ranchhoddas:
But you agree that there was a point where everything started. What makes you sure that there was no external force/intelligence at play before that point. Is the ''absence of evidence'' necessarily evidence of absence.

honourhim:


The starting point is God.

Some refer to the starting point as a force or whatever they wish, for us, that starting point is God.

I disagree with you that if the force can stand on its own then the world can exist on its own.

hopefulLandlord:


Not "necessarily" but usually

We are not sure of a lot of things but the logic here is what I'm talking about

If it has to start somewhere, just as much as I am not sire of any force having a hand in it, I am not sure of the universe coming about on its own

I'm a skeptic

Ranchhoddas:
Do you apply the same approach when dealing with UFOs and Aliens?

hopefulLandlord:


I have never thought critically of UFO's and aliens probably because people don't try to force aliens down my throat

Ranchhoddas:
But the cirumstances are similar. What do you think?

hopefulLandlord:

What's the question exactly?

Ranchhoddas:
Do aliens exist?

hopefulLandlord:

I don't know

Ranchhoddas:
Will there be freewill in heaven?

01Mysticdon:
where is God?

hopefulLandlord:


Neither does spiderman or Superman or harry potter


Wow! Christians and the logic they use to defend the atrocities of their god

In the military, you never go against the orders of your commander, you could be tried and executed for mutiny

Hell, a soldier who refuses to fight and runs away from battle would be killed if caught, these are human to human, no supernatural power is involved here

How much more so a god that is said to part the red sea, kill all first born son, strike people dead, flood the whole world

Let's assume the bible is true, if such a god commands you to kill non virgins and rape virgins, do you actually have a freewill? Any right thinking person would know that the freewill is just an illusion but I'm sure you see it differently

And about they not doing everything god told them to do, those who didn't were punished badly, so what's freewill?

Its like what we see in movies, there's a gun to your wife and children's head, you're told to do something you normally wouldn't have done, is there really freewill there?

Tell me what happened when moses struck the rock instead of speaking to it



Policeman doesn't claim to be everywhere, your god did

Freewill in the strictest sense of the word can never be compatible with omniscient god, that's clear enough



There's no freewill if he's omniscient,

An all knowing god cannot give freewill deal with the truth



I don't know what this means

SenatePresdo:


OH! I can say You haven't read the new testament as to know what it means.
Try to read it, before trying to rubbish Christianity.
Most atheist doesn't even quote the new testament, knowing fully well that it is where Christianity originated.

This your atrocity argument should be against a JEW and not a true Christian, if you know what Christianity means.

Christianity started from new testament.
So anything you want to quote from the bible, quote it from new testament.

I'm not defending judaism because I'm not a Jew.

SenatePresdo:


Of course, there will be freewill in heaven.

hopefulLandlord:


Hahahahahaha

Christians

I'm sure you would quote from old testament when its convenient

Since you're referring to new testament

Kindly provide correct answers to the questions in the link below

https://www.nairaland.com/3206720/easter-quiz-christians-test-knowledge

hopefulLandlord:


And you my good sir know this, how?