^^^ Sino,

- Kids believe tooth fairy exist just like they believe Satan lick their dropped candy, tooth fairy can't be seen even though kids gave their experience seeing one, maybe a shadow of their parents or illusion/imagination. It is only adults that doesn't believe in both tooth fairy and the candy-liking Satan. Not everyone believes in Satan-yawning stuff because it doesn't make sense to them, that's my point.

- The theory you gave is another argument which another will disagree just like religious scholars disagreeing with themselves, scientists are still studying the brain, you didn't provide link.

- Replying your post will be a waste of time as I will keep repeating same thing, a rational person here will get my point just like your fellows will get your point.

Its nice discussing with you, I use to enjoy it.

^^ I think that should be the end on your part

AlBaqir:
^^ I think that should be the end on your part

Yes bro, our points/arguments are clear, no need going hula hoop.

tintingz:
Yes bro, our points/arguments are clear, no need going hula hoop.

Absolutely. And that's what maturity is.

tintingz:
^^^ Sino,

- Kids believe tooth fairy exist just like they believe Satan lick their dropped candy, tooth fairy can't be seen even though kids gave their experience seeing one, maybe a shadow of their parents or illusion/imagination. It is only adults that doesn't believe in both tooth fairy and the candy-liking Satan. Not everyone believes in Satan-yawning stuff because it doesn't make sense to them, that's my point.

Kids are told what to believe, their capacity to reason is quite limited, their knowledge base and experiences cannot afford them the elevated status of reasoning things by themselves. On the other hand, adults, who are responsible for these statements and ideas are capable of this. My point has always been that the reasoning behind these statements can be stated to be rational, for these statements are result oriented! Not to mention the origin of some of these statement being an instrument of language and communication. The most interesting fact about rationality is that it is easily misused and misunderstood. Sometimes, being rational can be subjective and it would be illogical to claim another person's view is irrational!

tintingz:

- The theory you gave is another argument which another will disagree just like religious scholars disagreeing with themselves, scientists are still studying the brain, you didn't provide link.

I did not bring any theory, just what has been established from years of research in the area of brain thermoregulation studies, and the fact that yawning was not even given any consideration by the authors! Check the references, you can always get it just a click away...use the doi...

tintingz:

- Replying your post will be a waste of time as I will keep repeating same thing, a rational person here will get my point just like your fellows will get your point.

My fellows?! Alhamdulilah for Islam!

tintingz:

Its nice discussing with you, I use to enjoy it.

I appreciate the fact that I read wide and learn more from research when I engage in such discussions, I hardly get stimulated to read these days...

sino:


Kids are told what to believe, their capacity to reason is quite limited, their knowledge base and experiences cannot afford them the elevated status of reasoning things by themselves. On the other hand, adults, who are responsible for these statements and ideas are capable of this. My point has always been that the reasoning behind these statements can be stated to be rational, for these statements are result oriented! Not to mention the origin of some of these statement being an instrument of language and communication. The most interesting fact about rationality is that it is easily misused and misunderstood. Sometimes, being rational can be subjective and it would be illogical to claim another person's view is irrational!

Kids are more rational than adults it is the parents and society that change/indoctrinate them.

Again you can't argue that fairies don't exist, you've to show prove, parents are involve in tooth fairy thing doesn't mean they don't exist, people act santa claus, Jesus, Sango and angels in movies does that mean they don't exist?, there are books on fairies but all adults (except kids) knows fairies don't exit now compare that to yawning is from Satan it is only Muslims like you believe Satan enters people's mouth when they yawn.

I did not bring any theory, just what has been established from years of research in the area of brain thermoregulation studies, and the fact that yawning was not even given any consideration by the authors! Check the references, you can always get it just a click away...use the doi...

HIV/AIDs doesn't have cure yet, does that mean it is Satan?

Note: Malaria doesn't have cure in past but there are cure for malaria, people don't know the causes of malaria, it took reserch and experiments to know.

When it comes to science it progress in research, because scientists have not concluded in yawning research doesn't mean its from Satan, a least there are clues why we yawn just like there are clues how people trasmitted the virus.

My fellows?! Alhamdulilah for Islam!


I appreciate the fact that I read wide and learn more from research when I engage in such discussions, I hardly get stimulated to read these days...

Lol, OK.
Have a good day ahead.

.

tintingz:
Kids are more rational than adults it is the parents and society that change/indoctrinate them.

Interesting, so the parents and society (who are less rational by the way) successfully indoctrinated the kids to become irrational?! I had stated how and why kids are limited in being rational.

tintingz:

Again you can't argue that fairies don't exist, you've to show prove, parents are involve in tooth fairy thing doesn't mean they don't exist, people act santa claus, Jesus, Sango and angels in movies does that mean they don't exist?, there are books on fairies but all adults (except kids) knows fairies don't exit now compare that to yawning is from Satan it is only Muslims like you believe Satan enters people's mouth when they yawn.

Do you know the story of the tooth fairy?! I said it doesn't exist in any context to signify that its existence is questionable, the earliest reports about this tradition, was stated that the parents were always responsible for the gifts or money (wiki). It is a different scenario when adults put on costumes, and the deception of sneaking into the children's room at night. In cases when kids do find out, it could become counterproductive thereby straining the relationship between the kid and the parents.

Satan is believed to be a spiritual being, from the Islamic point of view, Satan is a Jinn. Now there are people who have had encounters with a Jinn, as I have stated earlier, we are limited with respect to issues that has to do with spirituality. you may call it magic, call it schizophrenia, call it hallucination, call it whatever, it really doesn't matter. I refrained from explaining some of these statements (about activities of satan) based on spiritual connotations, rather i explained the reasoning behind them which I stated to be rational!

tintingz:

HIV/AIDs doesn't have cure yet, does that mean it is Satan?

Do you know I can refer to a man, who is HIV positive, and knowingly infect unsuspecting people with HIV satan?! And while exploring my literary prowess, i would say, "...and she slept with the devil (satan)..."

tintingz:

Note: Malaria doesn't have cure in past but there are cure for malaria, people don't know the causes of malaria, it took reserch and experiments to know.

When it comes to science it progress in research, because scientists have not concluded in yawning research doesn't mean its from Satan, a least there are clues why we yawn just like there are clues how people trasmitted the virus.

See, I drink and live science, and I am always open minded. If tomorrow it is established that yawning is good for cooling the brain, I would accept without a fuss! That would not make me reject the narration in question, because the hadith was never about the science of yawning! Secondly, at the superficial understanding, the hadith is teaching morals/proper etiquette etc., and at a deeper understanding, it has to do with a Muslim's relationship with a spiritual being i.e Shaitan (la). Is it possible for something you cannot see, like air, enter into you through your mouth when you open it wide?! We know and it is established that there are living things which we cannot see, but can enter into our body, through our mouths and other orifices...So it shouldn't be an issue, except you do not believe in the existence of a spiritual being.

tintingz:

Lol, OK.
Have a good day ahead.

Many thanks, and same to you too.

sino:

Interesting, so the parents and society (who are less rational by the way) successfully indoctrinated the kids to become irrational?! I had stated how and why kids are limited in being rational.

Again, Kids are more rational than adults just that they are still fragile.

Use yourself as an experiment for a day and think like a kid who hasn't been indoctrinated with superstitions and religious beliefs, and I told you Satan enters peoples mouth when they yawn, do you know what will be your question "Why does Satan enters people's mouth, who's Satan and where does it live" this is where indoctrination begins.

Kids are wire to accept anything their parents or elders told them but before that they ask questions.

If I'm raised in China, do you think I will be practicing Islam?

Kids are limited to being rational because their mind are not yet filled with religious beliefs, society practices and superstitions.

Do you know the story of the tooth fairy?! I said it doesn't exist in any context to signify that its existence is questionable, the earliest reports about this tradition, was stated that the parents were always responsible for the gifts or money (wiki). It is a different scenario when adults put on costumes, and the deception of sneaking into the children's room at night. In cases when kids do find out, it could become counterproductive thereby straining the relationship between the kid and the parents.

It seems you don't get it.

We pray to God right? Kids wish to tooth fairy right? How will many people feel when they pray and things are not changing for them, now that's the same concept of tooth fairy wishes.

People pray to God and do fake miracles especially pastors what's the different with parent putting gifts under kids pillow making kids wishes come through. There are books and movies on tooth fairy that makes kids believe they exist, there are movies about Jesus, Santa, sango that makes people to believe they exist.

Here is another superstition about kids teeth.


During the Middle Ages, other superstitions arose surrounding children's teeth. In England, for example, children were instructed to burn their baby teeth in order to save the child from hardship in the afterlife. Children who didn't consign their baby teeth to the fire would spend eternity searching for them in the afterlife. The Vikings, it is said, paid children for their teeth. In the Norse culture, children's teeth and other articles belonging to children were said to bring good luck in battle, and Scandinavian warriors hung children's teeth on a string around their necks. Fear of witches was another reason to bury or burn teeth. In medieval Europe, it was thought that if a witch were to get hold of one's teeth, it could lead to them having total power over him or her.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_fairy

This are the beliefs surrounding kids teeth.

Satan is believed to be a spiritual being, from the Islamic point of view, Satan is a Jinn. Now there are people who have had encounters with a Jinn, as I have stated earlier, we are limited with respect to issues that has to do with spirituality. you may call it magic, call it schizophrenia, call it hallucination, call it whatever, it really doesn't matter. I refrained from explaining some of these statements (about activities of satan) based on spiritual connotations, rather i explained the reasoning behind them which I stated to be rational!

There are kids that have encounter fairies.

Parents use tooth fairy to comfort thier kids how is that different from satan enters people's mouth because there are ridiculous reasons behind them.

Do you know I can refer to a man, who is HIV positive, and knowingly infect unsuspecting people with HIV satan?! And while exploring my literary prowess, i would say, "...and she slept with the devil (satan)..."

A doctor will never make such statement to his patient.
Anyways your statement doesn't make sense and I've never heard someone referring HIV as Satan because it is clearly a medical condition.

See, I drink and live science, and I am always open minded. If tomorrow it is established that yawning is good for cooling the brain, I would accept without a fuss! That would not make me reject the narration in question, because the hadith was never about the science of yawning! Secondly, at the superficial understanding, the hadith is teaching morals/proper etiquette etc., and at a deeper understanding, it has to do with a Muslim's relationship with a spiritual being i.e Shaitan (la). Is it possible for something you cannot see, like air, enter into you through your mouth when you open it wide?! We know and it is established that there are living things which we cannot see, but can enter into our body, through our mouths and other orifices...So it shouldn't be an issue, except you do not believe in the existence of a spiritual being.

Because air or living things enter our mouth means it is Satan ? I don't understand you people again.

And why do you also have problem with tooth fairy stories eh?

Many thanks, and same to you too.

Okies

tintingz:
Again, Kids are more rational than adults just that they are still fragile.

Use yourself as an experiment for a day and think like a kid who hasn't been indoctrinated with superstitions and religious beliefs, and I told you Satan enters peoples mouth when they yawn, do you know what will be your question "Why does Satan enters people's mouth, who's Satan and where does it live" this is where indoctrination begins.

Kids are wire to accept anything their parents or elders told them but before that they ask questions.

If I'm raised in China, do you think I will be practicing Islam?

Kids are limited to being rational because their mind are not yet filled with religious beliefs, society practices and superstitions.



It seems you don't get it.

We pray to God right? Kids wish to tooth fairy right? How will many people feel when they pray and things are not changing for them, now that's the same concept of tooth fairy wishes.

People pray to God and do fake miracles especially pastors what's the different with parent putting gifts under kids pillow making kids wishes come through. There are books and movies on tooth fairy that makes kids believe they exist, there are movies about Jesus, Santa, sango that makes people to believe they exist.

Here is another superstition about kids teeth.


During the Middle Ages, other superstitions arose surrounding children's teeth. In England, for example, children were instructed to burn their baby teeth in order to save the child from hardship in the afterlife. Children who didn't consign their baby teeth to the fire would spend eternity searching for them in the afterlife. The Vikings, it is said, paid children for their teeth. In the Norse culture, children's teeth and other articles belonging to children were said to bring good luck in battle, and Scandinavian warriors hung children's teeth on a string around their necks. Fear of witches was another reason to bury or burn teeth. In medieval Europe, it was thought that if a witch were to get hold of one's teeth, it could lead to them having total power over him or her.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_fairy

This are the beliefs surrounding kids teeth.

There are kids that have encounter fairies.

Parents use tooth fairy to comfort thier kids how is that different from satan enters people's mouth because there are ridiculous reasons behind them.


A doctor will never make such statement to his patient.
Anyways your statement doesn't make sense and I've never heard someone referring HIV as Satan because it is clearly a medical condition.



Because air or living things enter our mouth means it is Satan ? I don't understand you people again.

And why do you also have problem with tooth fairy stories eh?


Okies

Sighs!

Please, define rationality....

sino:

Sighs!

Please, define rationality....

The thing is your rationality is limited to your belief.

Imagine someone saying fairies don't exist but believe Satan enters people's mouth, pee pee. Abeg how the cucumber go be.

tintingz:
The thing is your rationality is limited to your belief.

Imagine someone saying fairies don't exist but believe Satan enters people's mouth, pee pee.

Bro you won't kill me this night with laughter. You can clearly see yourself how inconsistent cave-thinking they become especially in their quest to defend by all means what is undefendable.

tintingz:
The thing is your rationality is limited to your belief.

Imagine someone saying fairies don't exist but believe Satan enters people's mouth, pee pee. Abeg how the cucumber go be.

So you can't define rationality I presume....

The best option to have taken is to say Satan does not exist. If you believe Satan exist, and argue about his activities without prove about what Satan can do or cannot, then you are being irrational in your beliefs.

I am not limited by my beliefs, I know how to apply my intellect and faith accordingly, I do not get confused, i am smart enough to see the pitfalls of putting your intellect before revelations....

AlBaqir:


Bro you won't kill me this night with laughter. You can clearly see yourself how inconsistent cave-thinking they become especially in their quest to defend by all means what is undefendable.

Eyah! So this is what you have reduced yourself to?! Well i can't blame you, you are looking for relevancy on here after being critically knocked out by exposing your duplicity and deceitfulness...Continue the cheerleader activities, it is quite befitting

AlBaqir:


Bro you won't kill me this night with laughter. You can clearly see yourself how inconsistent cave-thinking they become especially in their quest to defend by all means what is undefendable.

All his argument are base on his belief, things that are not even accepted world wide and he thinks he's rational about it.

sino:

So you can't define rationality I presume....

The best option to have taken is to say Satan does not exist. If you believe Satan exist, and argue about his activities without prove about what Satan can do or cannot, then you are being irrational in your beliefs.

I am not limited by my beliefs, I know how to apply my intellect and faith accordingly, I do not get confused, i am smart enough to see the pitfalls of putting your intellect before revelations....

I can define rationality, I just gave you reason why it is a waste of time doing so.

I believe there are negative forces but I don't believe this forces pee pee on people's ear when they sleep or enters people's mouth when they yawn.

tintingz:


All his argument are base on his belief, things that are not even accepted world wide and he thinks he's rational about it.

Does a rational idea have to be accepted world wide?

AbdelKabir:


Does a rational idea have to be accepted world wide?

It depends on the idea. E.g Rain falls, we all know and we all agree to it, Satan pee pee not everyone believes in that, no matter how one explain to people why Satan pee pee it won't make sense to them.
That's what I meant.

rash-uh-nl, rash-nl]
adjective
1.
agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible:
a rational plan for economic development.

Imagine arguing with a Buddhist that Satan pee pee what will be his response?

That's why each religion are limited to it own rationality.

tintingz:
It depends on the idea. E.g Rain falls, we all know and we all agree to it, Satan pee pee not everyone believes in that, no matter how one explain to people why Satan pee pee it won't make sense to them.
That's what I meant.

Just as how it didn't make sense to people of the past that the earth is actually spherical and not a square! anyone who said it is spherical when the popular belief is its a square would be seen as mad! because it doesnt follow their intellect, which is why intellect at times might be limited, so putting intellect before what Allâh says and his messenger said is in fact irrational.

rash-uh-nl, rash-nl]
adjective
1.
agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible:
a rational plan for economic development.

Imagine arguing with a Buddhist that Satan pee pee what will be his response?

That's why each religion are limited to it own rationality.

then this statement of yours:

things that are not even accepted world wide and he thinks he's rational about it.

is a fallacy.

AbdelKabir:


Just as how it didn't make sense to people of the past that the earth is actually spherical and not a square! anyone who said it is spherical when the popular belief is its a square would be seen as mad! because it doesnt follow their intellect, which is why intellect at times might be limited, so putting intellect before what Allâh says and his messenger said is in fact irrational.



then this statement of yours:

things that are not even accepted world wide and he thinks he's rational about it.

is a fallacy.

Oga, when numbers start with 123 and everyone knows that, can you argue that it is 231?


Now a research as been done that the earth is indeed spherical, there evidence and image of how earth shape is, everyone accepted the earth is spherical which is rational to everyone it is only an irrational person will argue the earth is not sphere in shape, he/she has to give reasons why the earth is not spherical.

**Edited*"

tintingz:
Oga, when numbers start with 123 and everyone knows that, can you argue that it is 231?

About the earth, Aristotle was almost killed by Christians when he said the earth is in sphere shape, it was irrational and blasphemy to the church.

Now a research as been done that the earth is indeed spherical, there evidence and image of how earth shape is, everyone accepted the earth is spherical which is rational to everyone it is only an irrational person will argue the earth is not sphere in shape, he/she has to give reasons why the earth is not spherical.

which brings me to my main focus, does "acceptance" proves rationality? no! but this is what you just said! and this is what i seek to quickly correct.

AbdelKabir:


which brings me to my main focus, does "acceptance" proves rationality? no! but this is what you just said! and this is what i seek to quickly correct.

Kindly ignore the Aristotle part I mistook him with Galileo conflict with the church.

As to your question, when I said acceptance I meant something agreeable to reasoning.

tintingz:
Kindly ignore the Aristotle part I mistook him with Galileo conflict with the church.

obviously i already did.

As to your question, when I said acceptance I meant something agreeable to reasoning.

it wasn't agreeable to reasoning at a point in time that the earth is spherical...

AbdelKabir:


obviously i already did.



it wasn't agreeable to reasoning at a point in time that the earth is spherical...

were there technology to give prove about the earth shape in the past? NO. many people lived in ignorance, they don't ask questions. Why do scientists called many beliefs myth? Because thorough research has been done to counter ancient beliefs. This gave birth to rationality, something agreeable by all. There are thing you will call irrational in science because your belief doesn't support it, not because you did research.

E.g, I'm feeling hungry, everyone knows it because my stomach is empty but when some beliefs start saying Satan is the responsible for your hunger not everyone will agree to this, only the believer of the belief.

That's why i said when it comes to religion, your rationality are limited, you dare not think outside the box.

tintingz:
were there technology to give prove about the earth shape in the past? NO. many people lived in ignorance, they don't ask questions. Why do scientists called many beliefs myth? Because thorough research has been done to counter ancient beliefs. This gave birth to rationality, something agreeable by all. There are thing you will call irrational in science because your belief doesn't support it, not because you did research.

E.g, I'm feeling hungry, everyone knows it because my stomach is empty but when some beliefs start saying Satan is the responsible for your hunger not everyone will agree to this, only the believer of the belief.

That's why i said when it comes to religion, your rationality are limited, you dare not think outside the box.

its either you do not understand what I'm saying, or you pretend not to, whichever the case may be, its ok sha!