as the demand for Bsc increases and also discrimination of HND certs, hence the govt thut it would be nice to change most polythecnics to universities.
I think its possilbe to change the polythecnics into universities cos it wont take long, it'll only take signing of some new documents. but the question is, will these employers not stilll discriminate certs 4rm these schools?Nigeria is a confused nation.I dont see where all these want to end.Also copnsidering UI that want to stop admitting undergraduates.i rilly think its the most uncivilised thing a school can do. imagine, it there are no graduates, how will they get PG students. Their senate isnt wise enough.

Who and who are our education policy makers in the first place?? Are they sane people at all??

Lets wait and see the outcome of their so called reforms. Nigerians will not be surprised at the outcome anyway!!

Who will be responsible for the training of middle-level manpower if polytechnics are no longer available??

Universities, they can offer courses like those in polythechnics.

LoverBwoy:

Universities, they can offer courses like those in polythechnics.

So what will NBTE be doing??

I dont know what NBTE means so i googled it and i got this http://www.servenigeria.com/article_281.shtml

National Board for Technical Education- just one of the thousands of boards in nigeria

On a serious note they can also be intergarted with the curent plan to merge polythecnics with Universities, they can set the syllabus and the main course content to reflect the technical side of things, they will provide support and approve the subjects/course

most schools in the u.k for example offer course that are geared towards technical aspects of an industry
http://www.tech.purdue.edu/met/
http://www.gre.ac.uk/courses/ug/meceng/h771
http://www.engr.iupui.edu/eet/

abit vague but i hope you get my point

LoverBwoy:

I don't know what NBTE means so i googled it and i got this http://www.servenigeria.com/article_281.shtml

National Board for Technical Education- just one of the thousands of boards in nigeria

On a serious note they can also be intergarted with the curent plan to merge polythecnics with Universities, they can set the syllabus and the main course content to reflect the technical side of things, they will provide support and approve the subjects/course

most schools in the u.k for example offer course that are geared towards technical aspects of an industry
http://www.tech.purdue.edu/met/
http://www.gre.ac.uk/courses/ug/meceng/h771
http://www.engr.iupui.edu/eet/

abit vague but i hope you get my point

I get your point. Lets see how this will work in nigeria. Britian is already a developed country and before now they had polytechncs and colleges of technology seperately from universities. Why can't nigeria empower the technical/technological institutions (polytechnics) to run technical/technological courses from Diploma level up to Phd level?? What government is indirectly saying is that the polytechnics alone are not doing well in nigeria and need to be integrated into the university system, whereas it is the universities that have not been doing well for long despite the huge sums of money spent on them by the government. The universities themselves need to be re-structured. How do you see it??

The whole education system needs to be re-structured really
I think they are doing it bit by bit,but the problem is going through with it
most of their ideas are very good on paper but implementing them seems to be the problem

Integrating the polytechnics with universities seems to be a first step, they'll probably re-structure the university system while the integration phase is going on- hopefully.

ASUU has condemned it, that it is wrong. They said what the government needs to do is to empower the technical colleges and polytechnics rather than merging them with universities. In their statement they claimed the government were only trying to carryout a wild goose chase.

change is a good thing, they'll always be resistance too change lol

what is ASUU?

brb

LoverBwoy:

change is a good thing, they'll always be resistance too change lol

what is ASUU?

ASUU is Academic Staff Union of Universities.

to be honest with you those people know what is right they just don't want to do it.
the education system needs a massive overhaul, some staff members have to be kicked out and thats why they are opposed to the move

some polytechnics are not really pulling their weight they just get huge budget to churn out loads of people with some qualification
the polytechnics that are producing results should be empowered or converted into universities

In terms of employment, students from polytechnics will continue to experience more barriers especially after what happened earlier this year

I think some banks and other companies were saying state university graduates and hnd holders were inferior or something like that. I think something have been done now though but employees will/can still exploit that

The funds FG give to universities for research is 10 times what they give to the polytechnics as yearly allocation, but yet nothing positive has come out of the universities in respect to the research(es) they claim to be carrying out. Let FG give research funds to polytechnics and see if the result would be different.

I have this to say to fellow nairalanders.
I was listening to the program* the president explains* this morning saturday 23/12/06 on Metro FM and radio Nig. Someone asked Mr. president about the segregatiion between HND and BSC and if his initiative of the the equation will end at the expiratioin of his administration,do you know whet he said? he said and i quote " HND and BSC have been equated and nothing can change it and for supremacy, it depends on the holders of the above to prove theirselves in the place of their work" and that the initiative will continue like that HND=BSC take note.

What i want to say here is that i am very satisfied with Mr. president comments and it is up to us to do our best in our places of work to prove ourselves and forget about blind Nigerians that belives in discrimination. Please prove your self where you work and most of all be very sincere in discharging your duty and see how fast you can excell.

we are the same graduate and the society through this administration has started knowing it, the president have cleared my fears Now is time to report employers of labour that discriminate (MOBIL NIGERIA TAKE NOTE I AM SOON TO SUE YOU WHEN I GET A GOOD LAWYER).We will definately progress.

But one more thing i still need clearification my Fellas is this can an HND holder goes for MASTER DEGREE now that this equation has statrted been enforced? I want to know more guys.
Jeffer Egbadon,
emmigrant01@yahoo.co.uk

Thank God the president himself has said it that HND and Bsc are the same qualifications. GOOD!! If the government really mean what they are saying let them pass the bill that makes it an offence to discriminate against HND holders, period!! else nigerians and employers of labour wont take it serious. Imagine what nigeria customs (or is it Immigation Service sef) did in their last recruitment; Bsc holders - Cadet Superintendents while HND and NCE holders were recruited as Cadet Inspectors. Is HND equivalent to NCE now?? I'm surprised this same discrimination of HND is coming from the government. If the goverment is sincere in its dealings let them pass the bill in front of them on the HND issue.

ishmeal you are a brothwer in the profession i see you reply my mail whenever i send one can we know each other the more? you can reach me here emmigrant01@yahoo.co.uk or 08035695558 i will pleased to know you .

And for all that cares read this:

Lassa criticises Education Ministry's reform agenda
From Isa Addulsalami, Jos
FORMER Executive Secretary of the National Commission for Colleges of Education (NCCE), Prof. Peter Lassa has said that the planned market economic policy of education for the country could not work because "it has never succeeded anywhere."

Lassa said that he was aware that the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) had been pushing for world wide reform in education which focused on a market-based school system.

Lassa, who is a retired professor of Mathematics having spent 46 years in teaching, said that the proposed merger of polytechnics and colleges of education with the university system would not work, because each had a specific purpose to fulfill in society. He addressed a news conference in Jos recently.

According to him, polytechnics and colleges of education were two different institutions and were different from the university system. He insisted that each one had a specific objective and purpose and that polytechnic education was geared towards providing middle level manpower.

"This policy does not fit into our education system which is based on social services. This market-based policy has some political undertone and is inconsistent with the Federal Government policy on the Universal Basic Education (UBE).

"This market-based policy came after the World War II in Europe and North America as a neo-liberal policy, emphasising the deregulation of the economy, trade liberalisation and the dismantling of the public sector (such as education, health, social welfare). The neo-liberalism emphasises the privatisation of public provision of goods and services. The main aim of neo-liberalism is to put into question all collective structures capable of obstructing the logic of the pure market," he said.

According to him, "This is the policy that the new Ministry of Education wants to implement. This policy of market economy cannot work in our system of education, and it has not succeeded anywhere we know of. It has been disclosed that government discourse since 2001 had led to substantive shift in school policy toward economic responsiveness which creates a business agenda in education.

"From the look of things, Obasanjo's regime is putting education in the vanguard of social and political change. The government position is based on its commitment to United Nations membership to lay the foundation upon which they think an education superstructure could be built."

Lassa urged government not to tread the path of the market economy policy for the country's educational system "because this policy has never worked and cannot work for Nigeria in the present economic development. The present educational policy and Nigerian constitution which place education under concurrent legislative list requires the attention of all the tiers of government in this country."


and this as well

Poly, Varsity Merger Will Improve Education – IMSU VC
By Amby Uneze in Owerri, 12.05.2006

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You have been the Vice Chancellor for the past one year, what is your relationship with the students like and what challenges have you faced?
I am very pleased to have the responsibility of being the Vice Chancellor of this institution, the Imo State University. I considered my appointment a learning process and I stand to put the experiences I have gathered over the years to bear on the present job. I would say that the experience has been a very rewarding one.
hile I was a dean in Faculty of Business Administration, I had a kind of relationship with the students body. A lot of them, including the President and executives of the Students Union body were quite close to me. They came for one advice of the other. I didn’t know how it happened, but this relationship with them eventually turned in my favour when I was more or less campaigning for this position, to the extent that a lot of the students expressed some kind of solidarity around me, to ensure that I emerged as Vice Chancellor. So since I became Vice Chancellor, there has been that kind of instant cordial relationship.
Most universities complain of a lack of infrastructural facilities, while there has been a steady increase in the number of students admitted each year, how is your university addressing this problem?
This is the main problem in the education industry in the country. It is real. You have a situation where a class meant for 50 or 60 students has close to 200 to 300 students. But the founding fathers of this university wanted to provide a training facility for the teaming population of Imo youths. So there is a kind of conflict there. We have to be able, at least, to meet the objective of the founding fathers.
Unfortunately, the recent admission quota granted by Nigerian Universities Commission (NUC), actually l
took into consideration the dearth of facilities. We used to admit about 6, 000 students every year, but we have stepped down. The Imo State Government was gracious enough to extend to us the former Okigwe Road secretariat, so this will ease off the existing congestion.
These days, employers of labour have drawn a line between the university degree and the polytechnic’s Higher National Diploma (HND), preferring the former. How do you react to this?
This has been a recurring decimal in the Nigerian education system. If you recall by the year 1983 – 84, following the Cookey Commission report, there was a distinction that was created between the salaries of he various tertiary institutions. I think these emanated from the provisions of the policy of education in the country, because within the polity, there was a need to create various categories of manpower in the system; middle level manpower, high level manpower and the rest of them.
But of course, you must understand that the society is changing. I recall when the current President was a military Head of State, he tried to harmonize the graduates of the polytechnic with those of universities, but it did not work. The employers themselves sometime prefer some polytechnic graduates to university graduates in some professions. Even in the university here, there is an institutional organ called the congregation or the convocation. For you to be a member of the congregation, you should be a graduate and by the interpretation of the graduate, you have to be a degree holder. Because of that in the appointment of, say the Bursar, some accountants with HND are very good, some even become chartered accountants before university graduates, but you can not be a Bursar of the university with just HND, because if you do, you are no more qualified to be a member of the congregation. So such things are there.
Well the distinction can still be removed. This situation existed sometime in Britain. They looked at the curriculum of various institutions, modified them, up-graded the polytechnics to university status, to the extent that the polytechnics in Britain now offer B-tech, M-tech to Ph.D., so that in case of the lecturers, if you find yourself in the polytechnic, you can still remain there and become a professor. So it was done in such a way that the institutions could serve their primary role in the society, the role of producing technological manpower.
The danger in our system is that sometimes, we get carried away by credentials. When you set up a University of Technology, before you know it, the university will begin to offer degrees in medicine, management, even in education or that kind of stuff. For purposes of psychological balancing, it may be necessary and I want to state it here now; at the presidential forum which we attended very recently, in the Ministers’ presentation I think there is that proposal. As a matter of fact, they have even set up a Presidential committee to oversee the possibility of harmonizing the system. They are trying to experiment with Kaduna Polytechnic and Yaba College of Technology as city universities. So the polytechnic system is now gradually being phased out. They can now become either a college or department of universities that exist closely, like in the UK. This should improve the standard of education.
How has IMSU dealt with the endemic problems of cult activities and exam malpractice?
Very recently we attended a stakeholders meeting at Abuja, organized by the Senate Committee on Education in conjunction with the Exam Ethics. The essence of that was to see how we could fashion out, with the assistance of the lawmakers, a bill against cultism. We look forward to these. But within the university here I must tell you, we are fortunate that we have a very formidable anti-cult group called, "Peace on Campus" squad. They are para military in nature. There is an interface between that and the existing local security agencies. From the Senate’s point of view, any student that is apprehended in connection with cultism is to be expelled.
What about Exam Malpractice?
I wouldn’t like to dwell much on the issue but we are doing a lot to tackle exam malpractice in the university. Lately, the post -UME policy is one reform that will eventually check exam malpractice in the system because the crop of students we are getting from the post UME exam are the crop of students that are now ready to study. They know that they have to study to pass any exam. It is a gradual process, but it is working, It will also take care of cultism because those that are involved in cultism are those that are not prepared at all to study.
You stated in your vision that you will focus on manpower development. How far have you gone in this direction?
We have done quite a lot in this. There was this policy in the older universities where the best graduating student is adopted into the programme of Graduate Assistance, from there you can now groom them. I have implemented that approach since I came in. I have also opened a window for staff to attend no fewer than 15 international conferences. I know two went to Cambridge, three to some other universities, and a whole lot to North America and Continental Europe. And lately from January, I have sent close to 133 staff to conferences within the country.
Who is Prof. Innocent Okonkwo?
I am Innocent Chuka Okonkwo. I hail from Ezioha Amaifeke in Orlu L.G.A, attended Uli High School, in the then East Central State and now Anambra State.  I proceeded to North America and had my first degree in Economics, with distinction at the St Thomas (Jesuit) University. I appeared consecutively in the Deans list and on graduation I was the second valedictarian of the University. I was awarded the University’s prestigious fellowship and on completion of my Masters programme in Economics, I proceeded to the Brighton, in the United Kingdom, where I obtained my Ph.D. in Industrial Economics. When I completed my Ph.D. programme, I came back to this country, first, the Federal Polytechnic, Idah; where I started my academic career, invited me and I eventually transferred to Imo State University at Okigwe. There I was appointed a senior lecturer,   I got promoted from the Senior lecturer position to a professor. From there I became the Dean of the College of Business Studies and for a long time I remained in the Faculty of Business Administration until  I contested for the Office of the Vice Chancellor. 



please mail me and tell me what you feel about it.

Cheers guys

The mathematics professor is yarning sense because he must have done enough research and analyses on this issue, while the so-called VC of IMSU is only yarning what he knows or what he thinks should be done without carrying out any analysis or research.

The VC at imo state is making sense actually it hase been done in somewhere else contradicting what the  proffessor is saying and gave very good case studies too

LoverBwoy:

The VC at imo state is making sense actually it hase been done in somewhere else contradicting what the proffessor is saying and gave very good case studies too

Are you saying the Mathematics prof is yarning nonsense?? make it clear to me please.

yes if you put it that way

i just read the article again and he seems to be driving around a roundabout

whoever says the prof is yarning nonsense is making a great mistake. Have you been involved in any research at all? if yes read this article again. i want us to be more diplomatic in the way we make our presentations for a great hight can only be achieved by hard work and industry.
Jeffery

LoverBwoy:

yes if you put it that way

i just read the article again and he seems to be driving around a roundabout

You seem not to understand Prof Lassa's points, thatz your problem any way!

what is his point?

You have to agree that the education system we have right now is not good enough

"This is the policy that the new Ministry of Education wants to implement. This policy of market economy cannot work in our system of education, and it has not succeeded anywhere we know of. It has been disclosed that government discourse since 2001 had led to substantive shift in school policy toward economic responsiveness which creates a business agenda in education.

--our system is current not good enough

--the policy have been and is still being used in other part of the world like i mentioned earlier, the lecturer from IMO state also gave examples, these policies are review almost every year. the Nigerian system is stagnant!!

--Economic responsiveness is exactly what we need! The things that are taught in school should be directly useful in industry, that’s why you see in other countries most of the lecturers are from industry, they are not original "straight from the book" lecturers, they have worked several years in specific industries, they have links to their sector and know exactly what sort of man power the sector needs


The current situation in Nigerias just appaling, there are so many different types of schools all in the name of giving everybody acces to education. It's a simple case of quantity or quality, so many union members, so many bodies, so many obstacle to change

Converting polytechnics into universities in nigeria will not solve the problem of under-development in nigeria. The major problem we have in nigeria that has made nigeria to be backwards technologically is Engineering. Engineers and (NSE and COREN) have all failed. They have never done anything to show that they are Engineers. They are more or less mechanics and Technicians. Atleast we know that Lawyers, Medical Doctors, Vet. Doctors, Agricultural scientist etc. are trying in their various fields, but Engineering especially Mechanical, Metallurgical & materials and elect/electronics are mere Mechanics and Technicians. Until they become ENGINEERS nigeria will always remain the way it is presently.

you mean only people that go to polytechnics are ENGINEERS?

instead of learning mathematics all through university, engineering students should be taught applicable engineering with industrial experience to help them

Merging polytechnics or converting them to university is only part of a solution to the whole sector

LoverBwoy:

you mean only people that go to polytechnics are ENGINEERS?

NO, thatz not what i'm saying. The university Engineering graduates are the ENGINEERS, while the polytechnic graduates are Engineering Technologists and Technicians. What i'm saying is that it is the university Engineers that are the major problem because they have not been able to design anything for the Technologists and Technicians to work on, rather they bring themselves back to the level of Technicians by carrying out maintenance and repairs on machines. If i may ask what have our Engineers in Nigeria achieved so far?? Have they been able to do anything with the bulk of iron ore that we have in Nigeria?? Have they been able to come out with a design for any Engine-block like their counterpart Engineers in other countries?? Considering these, between the polytechnic and university who do you think really needs restructuring and overhauling??

ishmeal, lover bowy, i want to Say here that we ve really contributed alot to this argument and you will quit angry with me that not many Nairalanders are contributing to this because the4y are tired of it. Lets talk about the way forward, how do we encourage the government to do what is right for us? this are but a few of what we should be looking on to.
Weather you like it or not the Gov has made their decisions and most have concluded behind close door what they then tend to do is bring it out to see our reaction, of course if their is no demonstration, they will now bring it out and said that it was agreed the very moment. But we have grown to a limit that we need not demonstrate but pray that an opposition should come in the form of confusion between they the decision makers so as they will do what is good for Nigerian education system.

Like i said before Empowering the poly is the best decision to the whole argument and if they feel merging will solve the problem then you and i are to pray it work for them and also we too should benefit, as i am writing this text i called a lecturer in my former school and he said the plans is in a top gear toward its realization. Lets pray that something good comes out. Cheers

Na dem sabi. If dem like make dem convert polytechnics to Trade/craft school sef.

ishmael:

NO, thatz not what i'm saying. The university Engineering graduates are the ENGINEERS, while the polytechnic graduates are Engineering Technologists and Technicians. What i'm saying is that it is the university Engineers that are the major problem because they have not been able to design anything for the Technologists and Technicians to work on, rather they bring themselves back to the level of Technicians by carrying out maintenance and repairs on machines. If i may ask what have our Engineers in Nigeria achieved so far?? Have they been able to do anything with the bulk of iron ore that we have in Nigeria?? Have they been able to come out with a design for any Engine-block like their counterpart Engineers in other countries?? Considering these, between the polytechnic and university who do you think really needs restructuring and overhauling??

Engineers and technicians should not be competing about who have done what so far? they are meant to work together.If one group don't achieve anything then the other group wont achieve anything either. Merging the the two would harmonise the work they do already, when technicians are there in the design process then you can't exactly blame one group when things go wrong, when the two groups work together they achieve better results it not a competition afterall they are there to make the world a better place.

the Education system as a whole needs restrucsturing, you cant fix the head without the body