Elbaron, 

Would you be kind enough as to point out the spiritual meanings?

That's what Goodguy and I have been trying to point out but it can not be understood without the help of the Holy Spirit. 


Joh 6:63
It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the Words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.

Isa 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

It's all in the "hearing"! Are you hearing it in your flesh or in your Spirit.  The same Word is given to each but it is how you hear that makes all the difference.

Joh 4:24
God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

RhodaRose

Firstly Scripture says "The Letter Killeth But the Spirit Gives Life".
U can comprehend scripture in its entirety without the help of the Holy Spirit. Its not a mere religion . Its holy ghost inspired. Explanin based on your premises would only cause greater confusion but i'll try.

Too much to reconcil in 1 post. I'll take it radomly from the summarized ones first:

11.
God is not Masculine. God is 'whole' or literarily put 'both'. He took out the female characteristics from Adam and made eve. They need eachother to bring forth another (different) human. Cloning can't achieve this (thats if its succeeds at all).

12.
The creatures/animals now were not all created by God @ Eden. Though they all originated from God's creation. There are several animals today that came to beign as a result of hybridisation and polymorphism and they spread round the earth. He formed so many creatures IN others.
For instance GOD made just 1 man...he didnt make blacks or whites. Adaptation amonsgt other factors is responsible for our skin color. Africa is the Land of the Rising Sun. U need Melanin to survive there. Melanin makes the skin black. Thats why we are black.
Several stuffs exist today that were not in creation but the all take their origin to Eden one way or the other.

13. Scientist say the snake ancestors once had limbs like the other member of the reptilian family (i'll get a source link soon).
Dust- It depends on what u understand by dust. Scripture didnt say sand. Dust signifies waste including edibles of the earth. What do snakes eat. I mean wild snakes not tamed ones. Except for the carnivorous ancondas who had been existing before Adam (pre-adamite world)

14a
19 ..................and the sons of Zerubbabel; Meshullam, and Hananiah, and Shelomith their sister: 20 And Hashubah, and Ohel, and Berechiah, and Hasadiah, Jushabhesed, five

There is no contradiction here. It never said "and the 5 sons of zerrubabel. Zerrubabel probably had 2 wives for shellomith is the sister of hananiah and meshullam...not the sister of the remaining 5. Anyway Zerubabel had 7 sons. The bible didnt say otherwise

14b
Sheba and Beersheba is still one city. So its 13 not 14 as u suggested.
Genesis 26:33 - And he called it Shebah: therefore the name of the city is Beersheba unto this day.

PART B QUESTIONS

What was the sign on Jesus' cross?
This is Jesus
The King of the Jews.
(Mt 27:37)

The King
of the Jews.
(Mk 15:26)

This is the
King of the Jews.
(Lk 23:38)

Jesus the Nazarene
The King of the Jews. (Jn 19:19)

The writing wasnt in English. Thats was a transaltion of what was written. Afterall they are all saying the same thing. Where is the Contradiction?

2.

Who has ascended to heaven

When u go through scriptures, you'll know the Elijah and Enoch did not enter heaven. Moses too was 'buried' by an angel. They only ascended on high. They actually came back During "The transfiguration of Jesus"=Luke 9:33
Jesus Led them into Heaven.


6

Math quiz: How many animals went on the Ark?

2 here GEN 6:19-20 means PAIRS
7 here means 7 PAIRS

There is no contradiction




33. Reverential fear is different from Fear from guilt. Read within context.

Layi, the interpretations are not in any way saying the same thing. This is Jesus King of the Jews is very different from Jesus of Nazareen, king of the Jews. When you say that God is not Masculine, what does it mean? That he is not a man? Exactly my point. I stated that for God to be described as "He" he must have masculine attributes. And when you say he is whole, does it mean he is neither male nor female? Pre-Adamite world. Interesting, at what point did this world exist?

Did Zerubabel have two wifes or did he probably have two wifes? At least you are making an effort to explain them without refering to dogma. That is refreshing. And thanks for your contribution. I shall look forward to your further analysis.

El_Baron

I stated that for God to be described as "He" he must have masculine attributes.

Not neccesarily. Its the inadequacy of the english Language. We can't use 'It' for a supreme beign. Neither can we use He and She at the same time. He is always used (chosen instead) to depict his mastery over us (like a man to the woman).

And when you say he is whole, does it mean he is neither male nor female?

He is actually BOTH. But literally, he can't be boxed into any of the 2 categories.

Pre-Adamite world. Interesting, at what point did this world exist?

Btw Genesis 1 vs 1 and vs 2
Events durin this era can be found in some parts of Isaiah,Jeremiah and some other books.

Did Zerubabel have two wifes or did he probably have two wifes?

Did scripture say he had 1 wife? In this case its the absence of evidence not the evidence of absence (nferyn's phrase). Its not conclusive enough to say he had 1 or 2 wives. But it can be inferred from the the way the children were listed that they were from diff mothers. If they were all from 1 wife "...and their sister" would have been at the end not after the first 2 names which means she isnt the siter of the remaining 5 names.



I'll treat others as well soon. Hunger dey catch me

8. When did the world develop many different languages?

Check my response here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-2496.0.html#msg84057

9. Does God cause confusion?

Here's a clear case of scripture taking out of context.
Confusion in 1 Cor 14 was talking about doctrinal confusion/diference. Paul said God didnt author such.
Confusion is a word that could be used positively of negatively. It depends on which context. Army do deploy strategies to confuse their enemy. It doesnt mean ther are doing a wrong thing.

11. Who has seen God?

The Holy Spirit is the angel of God's Presence. He reveals God's presence. He is the excutive arm of the GodHead (trinity)
No man has seen 'God the father'. But if u have seen Jesus or the Holy spirit. U have seen God.

Layi you said:

Firstly Scripture says "The Letter Killeth But the Spirit Gives Life".
U can comprehend scripture in its entirety without the help of the Holy Spirit. Its not a mere religion . Its holy ghost inspired.

I am sure you mis-spoke and meant "U can not comprehend scripture in its entirety without the help of the Holy Spirit" ...and I correct?

God is not Masculine. God is 'whole' or literarily put 'both'. He took out the female characteristics from Adam and made eve. They need eachother to bring forth another (different) human

Yes, right on!!  God, in Himself is man/woman, as He created the first human, Adam, who was man/woman before God removed woman from man and now they are two (when married or joined they again become one)
God needs His feminine side to bring forth another of Himself and She is His Holy Spirit, out and about producing Sons for Him with the cleansing of His Word in Truth and Love and naturally in Spirit...

The creatures/animals now were not all created by God @ Eden. Though they all originated from God's creation. There are several animals today that came to beign as a result of hybridisation and polymorphism and they spread round the earth.

AMEN!

GOD made just 1 man...he didnt make blacks or whites. Adaptation amonsgt other factors is responsible for our skin color.

AMEN!

Scientist say the snake ancestors once had limbs like the other member of the reptilian family (i'll get a source link soon).

Here's your link:
Ge 3:14
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life

God "kicked" the legs right out from under the serpent here.....very obvious

RhodaRose

Thanks Rhodarose, I meant CAN NOT.

Analysis contined...........

Part A
3(a) According to biblical "science", the earth was created 3 days before the sun, the moon and the stars; (b) Scientists say there are many stars whose light takes millions of years to reach the earth. How, then, could they be 6,000 to 8,000 years old as many Christians allege?

The issue is dealt with here http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c005.html

You are going to love this  

Quote
Who has ascended to heaven

When u go through scriptures, you'll know the Elijah and Enoch did not enter heaven. Moses too was 'buried' by an angel. They only ascended on high. They actually came back During "The transfiguration of Jesus"=Luke 9:33
Jesus Led them into Heaven.
UnQuote

2Ki 2:1
And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

Read all of 2 Kings 1-12

they went from Gilgal to Bethel to Jericho to Jordan and over the Jordan
And it came to pass, as they still went on (to a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor), and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

De 34:5-6
So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

Yes, we know where Moses was buried...right where Elijah was taken into Heaven by the whirlwind...Moses was with him...

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The devil was contending it was not time for the resurrection of Moses or anyone but you know who won this fight...  

Elijah had to travel before God removed him because Moses was going with him he had to go to Moses' burial site.  Moses and Elijah returned to meet with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration because both had acscended... WOW  

Blessings,
RhodaRose

layi:

The issue is dealth with here http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c005.html

The issue is explained away there, not dealt with. How many scientific publications does your author have behind his name and in what periodicals? There is no basis whatsoever for a declining speed of light. Light that passes through matter does lose some of it's speed, but that is irrelevant in the void of space.

The speed of light would need to be astronomically higher than 300.000 km/s to explain a young earth and there is [b]no [/b]evidence for any such speed. And even if that would somehow miraculously happen to be true, this would only mean that the possibility of a young earth is there. There is enough evidence from other fields to refute such a ridiculous claim hundred times over

Layi, you can hold your beliefs, but please don't go to nutcase sources such as Ansers in Genesis. You, as a medical doctor to be, should know better.

Elbaron you asked

When you say that God is not Masculine, what does it mean? That he is not a man? Exactly my point. I stated that for God to be described as "He" he must have masculine attributes. And when you say he is whole, does it mean he is neither male nor female?

No, when said God is whole it means He has masculine and feminine attributes as He created us, in His likeness.... and later removed the feminine to make two who are again one in marriage...

Example:
We can be Sons of God by the Holy Spirit nurturing us in the Truth of His Word...the Holy Spirit "birthing" Sons for God by this means of Teaching and Comforting...  WOW  

Joh 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

RhodaRose

God is a male. he made man in his own image. men dont cause trouble cos they are the image of God thats why you see that after God made man, he rested but when he created woman, neither did he nor the man rested again till date......women are bunch of trouble.

layi you said:

The Holy Spirit is the angel of God's Presence. He reveals God's presence. He is the executive arm of the GodHead (trinity)
No man has seen 'God the father'. But if u have seen Jesus or the Holy spirit. U have seen God.

By now you know I disagree with this.... the Holy Spirit is Gods' feminine side, our Comforter and Teacher (as a mother in the flesh is, the Holy Spirit is to our spirit) feeds, clothes, nurtures, cares for, kisses hurts to make them better and more as a mother in the flesh does, only the Holy Spirit does it in our spirit...raising Sons of God.
So, there can be no trinity because Jesus was first of many Sons of God...
Father, Holy Spirit and many Sons... no trinity (3) there...  some would like for you to believe Jesus could be the only Son but God says different... and His Holy Spirit is here to prove otherwise !!    HalleluYAH  

Blessings,
RhodaRose

hi rhodarose. wanna meet me on yahoo messenger? the id is oghos2003 lets talk some religion

oghos2K

God is a male. he made man in his own image. men don't cause trouble because they are the image of God thats why you see that after God made man, he rested but when he created woman, neither did he nor the man rested again till date.women are bunch of trouble.

Very cute but very wrong...

Ge 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God created man in his own image, man/female. not one but combined and the "them" means He recognized their different qualities as He recognized His own ... masculine and feminine in one ...

Ge 2:18
And the LORD God said, It is not good (first time in creation God said "it is not good)  that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet (comforter) for him.

and one was two and marriage makes them one again....

RhodaRose

oghos2k
want to meet me on yahoo messenger?
I have been here on puter for hours and neck is hurting but I will go now and we can set up our addys and talk a moment and see what happens...OK?
Wait till I open it...RhodaRose

the bible remains true even if it remains a mystery. elbaron about Abraham, you said Abraham was able to believe God becos he knew it was God speaking to him!
funny! unlike our times, there were no christians in Abraham's time, so he could not confirm from someone if it was God or not
Abraham had no reference of God speaking to any other person b4 him
how did he know it was God speaking to him? he believed by faith even though he had yet to see God.
many of us in Abraham's shoes today will dismiss such talk as mere hallucinations.

David, thank you for post. I wish to explain the concept of christianity. Christian means Christ-Like. In the likeness or footsetps of christ. Since Abaraham was pre-Christ, there could not have been any christians at the time. That is a given. God manifested himself to Abraham, and spoke to him. If God manifests himself to me today, I will do exactly as Abraham did. By the way, hallucinations differ in so many ways from a direct manifestation. Your point, though taken, does not address the issues at stake. Think about it.

RhodaRose, what exactly is your point. Believe me, I am confused. And I am the first to accept this. 2 Kings 2:11 states specifically that Elijah was taken up by a whirlwind into Heaven (as opposed to "on high". Enoch's case is debateable as the bible says he was "no more, for God had taken him" (Heb 11:5) That is a little ambigous and could be interpreted to mean anything. But the case of Elijah, well, what more can I say? Talking about the transfiguration, Jesus did not acsend to heaven on the day of the transfiguration. You will note that he did this after he ressurrected. So Jesus could not have taken them to heaven on that day. Assuming Jesus did, where were they all the while till the day of the transfiguration?

Elbaron,

Did you read carefully what I wrote? I didn't even mention Enoch...

Slowly and plainly, I say:

God took Elijah up to Heaven in a whirlwind at the exact place where Moses' body was buried because Moses went at the same time. That is the verse in NT that says Micheal disputed with the devil over the body of Moses...

I never said that Jesus "disappeared" with Elijah and Moses on the Mount...He went no where but was there only when His disciples looked up again...
Elijah and Moses returned to heaven, where they were since the whirlwind took them there.
"who descends but they that ascended"

RhodaRose

Your post to David says:

Christian means Christ-Like. In the likeness or footsteps of Christ. Since Abraham was pre-Christ, there could not have been any christians at the time. That is a given. God manifested himself to Abraham, and spoke to him. If God manifests himself to me today, I will do exactly as Abraham did.

I am not sure who gave this meaning for the word christian but that is not what this post is about....It is about Abraham and God.

2Ch 20:7
Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

Isa 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Ex 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses[b] face to face[/b], as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Joh 15:14-15
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

"Friend" is relationship

"christian" is religion

the LORD spake unto Moses[b] face to face[/b], as a man speaketh unto his friend.

I seek His face and being His Friend (relationship) and not christian (religion) is going to get me there.

1Ch 16:11
Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.

2Ch 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land

Ps 24:6
This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah

Ps 27:8
When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek

Ps 105:4
Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

Pr 7:15
Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.

Ho 5:15
I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early


RhodaRose

rhodaRose,

Maybe you did not notice, David was the first to mention the word "christian" and I was only replying to his post. And to set the record straight, this topic is not about God or Abraham as you claim. It is about the seeming contradictions in the bible. When you highlight biblical passages that ask us to see the face of God do you want us to take it at face value? If that is the case, I pray that the holy spirit should give you inspiration. Seeking the face of God and Moses's meeting God face to face are two different things even at the worst of times.

You are not making very much sense to me one minute you contend that Elijah and moses did not go to heaven until the transfiguration another minute you say they went back to heaven where they had been till the transfiguration. In you latest post, you seem to agree with the bible that God took Elijah by a whirlwind into heaven, if this is correct, then we are back to where we started, "Why would Jesus say that no man hath been to heaven apart from him who came from heaven......"? If Elija had gone to heaven? I dont even want to talk about Moses going to heaven because my Bible says he was buried by God (and not an Angel of God as you contended in your previous response), So I cannot categorically say he went to heaven. Let us leave that for the meantime and deal with the issue at stake.

Oh, yes, you did not say that Jesus disappeared with Elijah and Moses, you said he "took them to heaven". Only you didn't say by what means. By the way, when you quote several bible paragraphs, it would be easier for me to understand if you could explain them as you quote them.

El-Baron

I said:

I am not sure who gave this meaning for the word christian but that is not what this post is about.It is about Abraham and God.

You answer:

Maybe you did not notice, David was the first to mention the word "christian" and I was only replying to his post. And to set the record straight, this topic is not about God or Abraham as you claim. It is about the seeming contradictions in the bible.

Easier to understand is this:

I am not sure who gave this meaning for the word christian.

But, that is not what this post, I am writing in the following,  is about.
It is about Abraham and God, that I am writing in the following.

Communication mis-understanding is all

When you highlight biblical passages that ask us to see the face of God do you want us to take it at face value? If that is the case, I pray that the holy spirit should give you inspiration. Seeking the face of God and Moses' meeting God face to face are two different things even at the worst of times.

Why is it for us to seek His face and Moses meeting Him face to face so different? 
God only has one "face"
Moses was there and we are seeking to be there, His Friend, as Moses was His Friend.

You are not making very much sense to me one minute you contend that Elijah and moses did not go to heaven until the transfiguration another minute you say they went back to heaven where they had been till the transfiguration. In you latest post, you seem to agree with the bible that God took Elijah by a whirlwind into heaven, if this is correct, then we are back to where we started, "Why would Jesus say that no man hath been to heaven apart from him who came from heaven......"? If Elijah had gone to heaven?

No, I said Elijah and Moses went to Heaven in a whirlwind and returned from Heaven at the transfiguration then returned again to Heaven (Jesus didn't go till after His resurrection)
"Why would Jesus say that no man hath been to heaven apart from him who came from heaven......"?  Because He was not talking about Himself, but Elijah and Moses.

I don't even want to talk about Moses going to heaven because my Bible says he was buried by God (and not an Angel of God as you contended in your previous response), So I cannot categorically say he went to heaven. Let us leave that for the meantime and deal with the issue at stake.

He was buried by God but when he was taken to Heaven in the whirlwind Michael contended with the devil over his body since the time of the "resurrection" wasn't here according to the devil. 
I was just trying to show some of the revelations of Scripture that I have been shown.  This can be received or not, it is up to the "hearer".

Oh, yes, you did not say that Jesus disappeared with Elijah and Moses, you said he "took them to heaven".

Where? did I say that?

By the way, when you quote several bible paragraphs, it would be easier for me to understand if you could explain them as you quote them.

If you are referring to what I think than it may have been "several" verses but only two subjects:

1 Seeking the Face of God

2 Being God's Friend

I am sorry, I didn't think they needed explaining more than the verses explained...I even made bold the matching parts...     Next time I will do better but it will make the post much longer if I have to explain the Bible verses to those who know their Bible.  Ii thought just putting the verses together would be enough for the Light to Shine upon them.

Isa 28:9-13
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Knowledge and understanding of doctrine is not for babes on milk but those who are on Bread and Meat
Precept and lines are here, a little and there, a little and must be joined correctly for the revelation of His Truth to make sense to you.
"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people" 
Jesus' parables and Paul's' "tongues" but only those can and will hear will know the Truth.
The Word was given to all alike, Precept and lines are here, a little and there, a little, but only "hearers" hear and the ones you can not or do not "hear" then this happens to them:
"that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

Very important in the proceeding verses is this:

....yet they would not hear

Hope this helps

RhodaRose

wow! i can't believe we are still debating the authenticity of the WORD OF GOD!

2 Peter 1:20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

rev 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


him that will believe, let him believe! rev 22: 11

2 Peter 1:20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Joh 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

"but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit"

The Holy Spirit wrote it and the Holy Spirit will teach it to us.

This is not adding or subtracting but putting a little here a little there, together, for the revelation of the Light of His Word that the Holy Spirit is trying to show us from God, the Father and Creator of All that was Created.

RhodaRose

Very well, people. I think we have a basic misunderstanding of what we are all trying to say. David, We are not arguing about the authenticity of the word of God. If you remember, the post was about discrepancies in the bible and not about their authenticity. So far, we have all veered dangerously away from the issue at hand to deal with issues other than that of interpretation and explanation.

RhodaRose, your response refers:

No, I said Elijah and Moses went to Heaven in a whirlwind and returned from Heaven at the transfiguration then returned again to Heaven (Jesus didn't go till after His resurrection) "Why would Jesus say that no man hath been to heaven apart from him who came from heaven......"? Because He was not talking about Himself, but Elijah and Moses.

And I reply as follows: Jesus was not talking about Elijah and Moses, he was talking about himself. John 3:13(b) ".Apart from he who came from heaven, Which is the son of man....". If you take that whole verse in context, it means that no one has been to heaven in whatever form or shape apart from Jesus himself who is the Son Man (the Man) in heaven. read the entire verse.

When you imply that seeking God's face is tantamount to aspiring to see his face in person, I beg to differ. When you seek you father's face, english language interpretes it to mean that you aspire to enter your father's good graces. You want to be in his good books. You want to be on his side. Nothing to do with the seeing of a face.

About where you said Jesus took Elijah and Moses to heaven, read your first post in which you mentioned the transfiguartion (Not your very first post to this topic, but the first one you mentioned transfiguration in). Just as a matter of interest, can someone at least attempt to explain the passages mentioned in the original post about the discrepancies contained in the holy scriptures? I do not think it a valid point to assume that the holy spirit will show guidance. The rest of the bible aside the parts mentioned are quite plain and easy to comprehend without the added liability of discrepancies. Why are there no dis-similarities in them? I contend that the scriptures were tampered with otherwise, let someone tell me why there are different accounts of the same events.

thanks for clarifying issues elbaron, now i get your drift. pls give me a few hrs to reply to ur post.

Elbaron

Jesus was not talking about Elijah and Moses, he was talking about himself. John 3:13(b) ".Apart from he who came from heaven, Which is the son of man....". If you take that whole verse in context, it means that no one has been to heaven in whatever form or shape apart from Jesus himself who is the Son Man

We all are "sons of man" but not all Sons of God.

"No man has ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven"  Must go up before you can come down and this describes Elijah and Moses. (Enoch went to heaven once or twice but he ended up back on earth to tell his findings to his children which is how it was written about.  He ended up dying a nature death in the flesh at the end of his life.)

Plus, Jesus is standing there saying that this "son of man" he is talking about IS in heaven...and Jesus sure wasn't, He was right there talking to the people.

Joh 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

When you imply that seeking God's face is tantamount to aspiring to see his face in person, I beg to differ. When you seek you father's face, english language interpretes it to mean that you aspire to enter your father's good graces.

Actually English language interpretes it as "seeking His face",  in knowing Him and not seeking His hands for Him to do things for you.  We are to be available for the work of God.  He is not there to give us everything we ask for as material things of this world.
"Seek you first the Kingdom of God and the rest will be added"

About where you said Jesus took Elijah and Moses to heaven, read your first post in which you mentioned the transfiguration

I found it but it was a Quote and not from me...

Quote
Who has ascended to heaven

When u go through scriptures, you'll know the Elijah and Enoch did not enter heaven. Moses too was 'buried' by an angel. They only ascended on high. They actually came back During "The transfiguration of Jesus"=Luke 9:33
Jesus Led them into Heaven.
UnQuote

Just as a matter of interest, can someone at least attempt to explain the passages mentioned in the original post about the discrepancies contained in the holy scriptures? I do not think it a valid point to assume that the holy spirit will show guidance.

Damn it!!!  Jesus lied again...just can't trust the Son of God either, I surmise...

Joh 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

...or you don't have a clue to what you are talking about, Elbaron...
I chose to believe Jesus in this matter, Thank You!

I contend that the scriptures were tampered with otherwise, let someone tell me why there are different accounts of the same events.

There are different accounts because eyewitnesses see the same thing differently as they do now-a-days.  Ask any law officer.

The NT was tampered with by the Roman church when they gathered and burnt all the accounts of the NT and rewrote them to fit into their pagan ways so the people would not refuse the church leadership.  Pure and pagan mixed it became.  Only the Holy Spirit can sort it out for us now.

RhodaRose

RhodaRose, you're beginning to confuse me here. What exactly do u mean by this:

RhodaRose:

Damn it!!! Jesus lied again...just can't trust the Son of God either, I surmise...

Rhodarose,

If u say you r not a christian but are just a follower of Jesus, pls whats the difference.Are u trying to say u r from another denomination or what? But u seem to forget that in the bible followers of Jesus were called Christians.

Honestly, ur posts r getting very contradictory and as i said earlier confusing?

Thats true. Its gettin confusin

GoodGuy

RhodaRose, you're beginning to confuse me here. What exactly do u mean by this:


Quote from: RhodaRose on Today at 12:02:22 AM
Damn it!!! Jesus lied again...just can't trust the Son of God either, I surmise...

,

I was being sarcastic to this that elbaron said:

I do not think it a valid point to assume that the holy spirit will show guidance.

Since Jesus said the opposite of elbaron:

Joh 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

...or you don't have a clue to what you are talking about, Elbaron...
I chose to believe Jesus in this matter, Thank You!

I do have a difference "sense of humor" than most and is hard to understand sometimes, Sorry

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prettyH,

If u say you r not a christian but are just a follower of Jesus, please whats the difference.

"christian" is a "religion" and following Jesus is a "relationship" with the Father.

Are u trying to say you're from another denomination or what?

No, just the opposite, I am from no "denomination" but from the Church that Christ (the Anointing) is building

But u seem to forget that in the bible followers of Jesus were called Christians.

I don't "forget" that because it is not so...Bible followers of Paul were called "christians"

but the Bible followers of Jesus are called Friends by Jesus

Joh 15:14-15
Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

and Sons by God, the Father. You can not call God Father unless you are a Son.

God, the Father, wants Relationship , NOT "religion"


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layi.

Hope that helps, layi, and if not let me know where it still confuses you.

I do not mean to confuse but witness for Jesus and His Truth in Love

RhodaRose

Sorry, double post.. RhodaRose