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Questions To All Athiests by Tonyet1(m): 3:48pm On Sep 30, 2009
What do you guys really stand for, pls may i know? As it appears i barely even know nothing about anything of your religion or belief, or does you religion disbelieve to believe others belief?  cheesy cheesy cheesy
Re: Questions To All Athiests by DeepSight(m): 4:24pm On Sep 30, 2009
Most of the Atheists have misdirected themselves, because the reasons they put forward mostly border on the existence of evil and religious absurdities and corruption.

Their arguments tend to go like this:

"Since the followers of Micheal-Angelo are all evil people who have twisted and misconceived ideas about art, then the paintings on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel appeared there by themselves, nobody painted them."

OR

They argue - "What caused God?"

This is like saying - "Since we do not know the mother of Leonardo Da Vinci, then the Mona Lisa was not painted by anybody, and popped out of thin air."

OR

They argue - "Where is God? Can he be seen?"

This is like saying: "Since I cannot see Barack Obama from my balcony, then clearly he does not exist."

OR

They argue - "Must the universe have a cause? Couldn't it have always existed?"

This is just like saying: "Must i have a cause? Couldn't i have always existed?" Oh dear, since you always existed, your mama must have been hallucinating when she gave birth to you! Aside this, the Big Bang shows that the universe did not always exist. It started at a point.

What caused it to happen?

Because something did cause it to happen.

Whatever that thing is, is what the Deist calls God.

The Atheist rather says - "It needn't be the God of religion"

Duh. Who said anything about religion?

Then the mother of all their arguments:

"There is no evidence that God exists, the universe is not evidence that God exists"

Oh dear, there is no evidence that the parents of an orphan child we found in the forest ever existed. After, all, we cant see the parents, and the child is only evidence of his own existence, not evidence that there was a mother somewhere at some point in time.

Nah, don't waste your time with that lot. . .
Re: Questions To All Athiests by KunleOshob(m): 4:32pm On Sep 30, 2009
It actually takes more faith[extreme delusion] to believe that there is no creator than to believe there is one. What I mean is that one must be virtually insane to believe the universe with all it's complexities and diversities just happened by chance.
Re: Questions To All Athiests by DeepSight(m): 4:43pm On Sep 30, 2009
Aside from the argument of causation, contained in the Cosmological argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument), it escapes most atheists that there also must perforce must have been a reason for the Prime Mover, to have initiated the cause.

Frankly, its just astonishing that people could refute the Cosmological Argument because it talks about a first mover, and not necessarily "Yahweh" or "Allah".

The atheist should just admit that its Religion they have a problem with and not "God" as per a Creator.
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tonyet1(m): 5:29pm On Sep 30, 2009
@KunleOshod and deep sight,

Believe me, dats one thing that puzzles me till date, i was chatting with one renowned athiest online by name of PROF. CHACY GATESTAY to ascertain the reasons for their arguments

excerpts from an online chat, though incomplete

1. He said Athiesm is not a religion, ok i said, so what is it? He said "they are a movement (not religion) that chooses to see life from a PYCHOLOGICAL point of view

2. How do you mean Psychological? i asked again and He said "Pychology beleives and operates based on what we see, feel , hear , smell and touch, then i asked him, wouldnt that mean more of a religion we can call "PHYSICALISM" (i just chose the word for him grin) then he said "yeah yeah if i want to call it that but we aint no religion"

3. Then i suggested to him thus "perhaps dont you guys really need to proclaim to the world at large that you have a new religion and you choose to call it PHYSICALISM, then he screamed online, "oh no no no, we athiest never want to be identified with any religion"

4. Again i asked him, "if you dont want to be associated or identified with any religion, but you choose to accept whatever your senses tell you, then you could be fitted into the religion of FREETHINKERS" again he said no, then i asked him, what then do you guys really want

5. He said we are a MOVEMENT (not religion grin) and as a movement our assignment is to enlighten the world that what they claim as religion is nothing but a delusion then i said congrats then you definitely have a religion called ANTAGONISM, because my point to him was that every human on earth is a RELIGIOUS ENTITY whether you choose xtianity, islamism, buddism, animalism or paganism, the roots is that you believe in something, even though if not the existence of a supernatural being but the inexistence of a supernatural being.

ATHIEST or whatever you guys call yourself, pls come out and own up, lets know who you guys really are, lest your religion i will call HYPOCRISM  grin
Re: Questions To All Athiests by banom(m): 5:55pm On Sep 30, 2009
@ Deap_sight,

Perhaps, i see you are relatively new here,and it seems to me that you think no one here is more intelligent than you are, and that is a high tendency of you seeing the world from your little life perspective,and prejudice,

You once made a post here trying to use empirical reasoning to prove the existence of God, at the beginning of the post many people asked you to stop that it was going to be a dead end project,but you continued and up till now you have not accepted that you only wasted your time in that thread,

Any how, it is all about you sha,i personally love to leave people to live their lives the way they want it, But if you think a person could just wake up one morning and denounce the existence of God just for fun,i advice you think twice.
Re: Questions To All Athiests by DeepSight(m): 6:11pm On Sep 30, 2009
^^^ No, its not just for fun, some of them feel anger at dogma, some frustration at evil, etc. These are their real grounds for being Atheists.

These may be grounds to doubt the nature of God as described by religion, but not the existence of a prime mover. The existence of a prime mover is pure logic, and not even faith. In fact it's tender-garten logic!

And i did prove that prime mover - don't blame me if some people are not "Deep-Sighted" enough to follow the logic.

  1. 0 + 0 = 0, thus something cannot come out of nothing in the finite realm.

  2. Accordingly, all things which have a beginning also have a cause (law of cause and effect).

  2. The Universe had a beginning (Big Bang confirmed)

  4. The Universe therefore had a Cause.

  5. That Prime Mover/ First Cause is called God, as God is defined as Creator, and nothing more (forget religion).

What again?
Re: Questions To All Athiests by banom(m): 6:22pm On Sep 30, 2009
Deep Sight:

^^^ No, its not just for fun, some of them feel anger at dogma, some frustration at evil, etc.

These may be grounds to doubt the nature of God as described by religion, but not the existence of a prime mover.

And i did prove that prime mover - dont blame me if some people are not Deep Sighted enough to follow the logic.

1. 0 + 0 = 0, thus something cannot come out of nothing in the finite realm.

2. Accordingly, all things which have a beginning also have a cause (law of cause and effect).

2. The Universe had a beginning (Big Bang confirmed)

4. The Universe therefore had a Cause.

5. That Prime Mover/ First Cause is called God, as God is defined as Creator, and nothing more (forget religion).

What again?



Nice one,
let me devote this evening for us to argue this once and for all,but you must assure me that if you are unable to prove the existence of God to me, then you will stop any further campaign for the existence of God ?and if you win, i will denounce atheism this evening , is that a deal ?
Re: Questions To All Athiests by DeepSight(m): 6:27pm On Sep 30, 2009
Agreed! I will open a thread right now, called, The Duel: Banom takes on Deep Sight on the Existence of God.

Check it out, let's go.
Re: Questions To All Athiests by bawomolo(m): 6:40pm On Sep 30, 2009
KunleOshob:

What I mean is that one must be virtually insane to believe the universe with all it's complexities and diversities just happened by chance.

can you give an example of such complexities and diversities that need to be designed by this Grand architect called God?


were tsunami's, shift in the Teutonic plates, active/inactive volcanoes part of this complex plan?   How do you explain asteroids and meteors landing or colliding with other planetary bodies?   

The universe to me is a whole bunch of chaos with matter being transformed from one to another (typically violently). 


1. 0 + 0 = 0, thus something cannot come out of nothing in the finite realm.

isn't the universe an infinite realm? or does your equation count in the infinite realm.

uncertainty principles come to mind.
Re: Questions To All Athiests by huxley(m): 6:41pm On Sep 30, 2009
Deep Sight,

In practical terms, what is the difference between you and an atheist? Do you have any being that you worship and spend a lot of time venerating?
Re: Questions To All Athiests by DeepSight(m): 6:45pm On Sep 30, 2009
^^^ Yes o, i worship God and i do pray. I believe there is a spiritual aspect to life. But i cant find satisfaction in any formalized religion.

But that is private. It has nothing to do with principles of Deism, or the Cosmological Argument.
Re: Questions To All Athiests by bawomolo(m): 6:46pm On Sep 30, 2009
Then you are a spiritual person and not deist. Deist don't worship the supreme force/being
Re: Questions To All Athiests by DeepSight(m): 7:00pm On Sep 30, 2009
^^^ That is not true. There are many different schools of Deism. Many regard worship as irrelevant, but others do worship. There was even once, i think, a "Church of Deism" or something like that which i think morphed into Unitarianism or something like that.

There is even christian deism. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Deism
Re: Questions To All Athiests by bawomolo(m): 1:48am On Oct 01, 2009
Do christian deists worship God or follow his teachings?
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Atheists: 1:52am On Oct 01, 2009
@ Poster

I am a humanist grin
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Atheists: 1:54am On Oct 01, 2009
@Deepsight

Where did the creator coming from ?
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tonyet1(m): 10:50am On Oct 01, 2009
@Athiests,

At least you have owned up, now let me ask you what is HUMANISM?

Humanism is a perspective common to a wide range of ethical stances that attaches importance to human dignity, concerns, and capabilities, particularly rationality. Although the word has many senses, its meaning comes into focus when contrasted to the supernatural or to appeals to authority, refer to wikipedia

What you guys seem not to be getting is that when you check the root of every form of human belief it traces all back to the existence of an ORIGINATOR, example:

[li] HUMANISM chooses to see humans as great and important, now when you take that into the bible, you will come acrosss verses that says "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF", "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU'LL LOVE THEM TO DO UNTO YOU", "JESUS SAYING - DONT YOU KNOW THAT YE ARE GODS?" and the list goes on and on, now whether you like it or not, when you show love to someone other than yourself, you are fulifilling the commission of an ORIGINATOR whether you choose to call your practise a religion or movement, God aint concern about religion in the first place. all he knows is that even in your foolishness(consciously or unconsciously) he is still declared as God[/li]

[li] FUNDAMENTALISM [/u]Other athiest call themselves such, with the arguments that all things should be kept in its state of principles, now again take that into the scriptures and you'll come across stuffs like "HOLD FAST TO THIS THING YE HAVE HEARD(principles)", "IF YE DO THIS THINGS THEN YE SHALL HAVE LIFE (principles)", "SEETH THOU A MAN DILIGENT IN HIS WORK HE SHALL STAND BEFORE KINGS (principle)" and the list goes on and on, now i ask, doesnt that sound like someone gave these principles even b4 fundamental athiesm began?, this still ppoint us to the fact that an ORIGINATOR is somewhere at the background? [/li]

[li] [u] DARWINISM
athiests belief in the evolution of man from one specie unto another, now the question thay fail to answer is HOW COME ABOUT THIS SPECIES, some say something about the UNIVERSAL BIG BANG, others say the COSMOLOGICAL DISPLACEMENT OF MATTERS, ok, so how come about the universe or cosmos, did they just bagan existing?, what brought about this matters that got displaced, did they just existed and later come together to form a specie? there is always a beginning to everything.

Even the original Darwinism believed in man as an ape (evolved homos) that in itself was SCIENCE IN ITS THESIS FORM NOT YET PROVEN A LAW before the false invasion of Thomas Henry Huxley in 1860 , who out of vengence and evil in his heart for the dispise his people (religious folks) had for him and his works, chose to take up the issue of evolution to fight creationism, and evil being what it is became accepted by some majority outside his kindred and country to a vile minded people (greek) who embraced his work and tried applying philosophy to it.[/li]

Whichever way athiesm chooses to see it, you guys (athiests) really need to give a rethink to your baseless beliefs and opinions
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tonyet1(m): 10:57am On Oct 01, 2009
This was Charles Darwin's belief and opinion about Man,  before Huxley came up with his fallasy in 1860 and worked for 10yrs to gain his false recognition in 1870. and that time Darwins work was still A THEORY not yet a LAW, b4 the evil of a man Huxley came up to say man began as worms and microorganisms.

Aint that stupid! or rather pathetic of a sick man

Re: Questions To All Athiests by bawomolo(m): 3:01pm On Oct 01, 2009
you seem to be under the assumption that atheists are in agreement on the issues of evolution and humanism.

Have u heard of nihilism and co. You just can't put atheists under one umbrella besides non-belief in God
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tudor6(f): 4:16pm On Oct 01, 2009
Tonye-t:

@KunleOshod and deep sight,

Believe me, dats one thing that puzzles me till date, i was chatting with one renowned athiest online by name of PROF. CHACY GATESTAY to ascertain the reasons for their arguments

excerpts from an online chat, though incomplete

1. He said Athiesm is not a religion, ok i said, so what is it? He said "they are a movement (not religion) that chooses to see life from a PYCHOLOGICAL point of view

2. How do you mean Psychological? i asked again and He said "Pychology beleives and operates based on what we see, feel , hear , smell and touch, then i asked him, wouldnt that mean more of a religion we can call "PHYSICALISM" (i just chose the word for him grin) then he said "yeah yeah if i want to call it that but we aint no religion"

3. Then i suggested to him thus "perhaps dont you guys really need to proclaim to the world at large that you have a new religion and you choose to call it PHYSICALISM, then he screamed online, "oh no no no, we athiest never want to be identified with any religion"

4. Again i asked him, "if you dont want to be associated or identified with any religion, but you choose to accept whatever your senses tell you, then you could be fitted into the religion of FREETHINKERS" [/b]again he said no, then i asked him, what then do you guys really want

5. He said we are a MOVEMENT (not religion grin) and as a movement our assignment is to enlighten the world that what they claim as religion is nothing but a delusion [b]then i said congrats then you definitely have a religion called ANTAGONISM, [/b]because my point to him was that [b]every human on earth is a RELIGIOUS ENTITY whether you choose xtianity, islamism, buddism, animalism or paganism, the roots is that you believe in something, even though if not the existence of a supernatural being but the inexistence of a supernatural being.


ATHIEST or whatever you guys call yourself, pls come out and own up, lets know who you guys really are, lest your religion i will call HYPOCRISM  grin

Bro, did you attend school at all?

Can you give me a basic definition of the term RELIGION?

The professor was obviously being patient with you. . . . I cant see myself discussing online with someone who invents totally ridiculous terms as "Religion of Antagonism"- what the hell is that? Damn!
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tonyet1(m): 9:34am On Oct 02, 2009
@Tudor,

You see why i said you guys are so confused, imagine you crying foul over the mention of the religion 'Antagonism'. That term for you info means "having hatred for something thereby causing ill will". And all my life i have never come across any athiest who has so much hatred for Christianity than yourself.

Even your so called professors dont even knwo why they oppose what they oppose. Maybe the better religion for all athiests is CONFUSIONISM  grin grin

Or Maybe you are even faking yourself as an Athiest in the first place. Mr.Damn Damn Damn  grin grin grin

Athiests - Bunch of confused folks undecided undecided I feel pity
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tudor6(f): 10:04am On Oct 02, 2009
Tonye-t:

@Tudor,

You see why i said you guys are so confused, imagine you crying foul over the mention of the religion 'Antagonism'. That term for you info means "having hatred for something thereby causing ill will". And all my life i have never come across any athiest who has so much hatred for Christianity than yourself.

Even your so called professors dont even knwo why they oppose what they oppose. Maybe the better religion for all athiests is CONFUSIONISM  grin grin

Or Maybe you are even faking yourself as an Athiest in the first place. Mr.Damn Damn Damn  grin grin grin

Athiests - Bunch of confused folks  undecided undecided I feel pity

Why are you ranting senselessly? . . . .could it be because you now realise how extremely dumb and ignorant your arguments look?

Why run away from the question : Can you give me a basic definition of the term RELIGION?

And tell us how "antagonism", "confusionism", "hypocris" and all the rubbish terms you listed qualify as religion. Is this so hard for ya?
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tudor6(f): 10:04am On Oct 02, 2009
.
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tonyet1(m): 10:52am On Oct 02, 2009
Tudor,

abuses and insults connotes signs of childishness you know!, its doesnt take people any where irrespective of their opinions or beliefs

Now to answer your question


RELIGION:
System: An institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine
Obsession: An object, practice, cause, or activity that somebody is completely devoted to or obsessed


And the list goes on and on,now on the side of obsesseion isnt that what you guys (athiests) do here all day? obsessed about either christianity or islamism and their Gods. With that i say athiesm is a religion, u guys should come up and tell us which sect of your religion you belong. If you throw abuses again i wont reply u, do you understand? behave maturedly for once
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tudor6(f): 11:44am On Oct 02, 2009
Tonye-t:

Tudor,

abuses and insults connotes signs of childishness you know!, its doesnt take people any where irrespective of their opinions or beliefs

bla bla bla. . .

Where did I insult you?
Stick to issues and stop whining like spoilt kid.

Now to answer your question


And the list goes on and on,now on the side of obsesseion isnt that what you guys (athiests) do here all day? obsessed about either christianity or islamism and their Gods. With that i say athiesm is a religion, u guys should come up and tell us which sect of your religion you belong. If you throw abuses again i wont reply u, do you understand? behave maturedly for once
This is seriously embarrassing. . .

I asked you to define religion and you did as "An institutional or personal system of beliefs or practices relating to the divine". . . . then went ahead to define obsession not minding that the word "obsession" doesn't even come up in your definition of religion. Then magically conclude that obsession = Religion. HOW?

You have not even told us the relationship between obsession and Religion, and how they come to mean the same thing.

And since your definition of obsession is "An object, practice, cause or activity that somebody is completely devoted to" please tell us which of the following obsessions is religion and which is not, stating your reasons.

1. An obsession/devotion to football
  2. A devotion to educating the deluded as to the lies and fallacies of religion.
3. An obsession for nairaland.
4. A devotion/obsession with sex (like deep sight)
Re: Questions To All Athiests by Tonyet1(m): 4:16pm On Oct 06, 2009
huxley:

I have agonised over many years about whether, in addition to holding an atheistic worldview, I should also hold a materialistic worldview. For many years, I have called myself a naturalist, disavowing all forms of the supernatural. A naturalist basically claims that everything that exists in the universe (or metaverse) can be explained in purely natural form. Thus, a naturalist claims that if it turns out that a "supernatural" realm does exist, this realm is actually a manifestation of the generality of the natural, and would become subsumed into the natural.

On the other hand, a materialist makes the claim that ONLY the material world exist and everything in the universe (or metaverse) is a manifestation of matter in one form or the other. I have found it hard to square materialism with my knowledge of the feature of the universe?

Over the last few months, I have been looking at some research in what is generally term the paranormal, and am quite impressed with some of the results of work in this area. What stands out clearly is that the paranormal is amenable to being studied by naturalistic means. What also stands out is that there is a lot which cannot yet be explained using existing materialistic theories. Checkout the following two lectures:

1) Dean Radin

2) Rupert Sheldrake


I recommend you watch at least one of the videos above before commenting.


Finally some are beginning to own up, never knew atheists have sects hmmmmm interest but futile quest for them, so huxley you are thinking of crossing to another sect of atheism?

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