It appear that the message pastor kumuyi preached this morning has been causing controversy in the social media. As some said, it can never be possible for the man of God to say so. Actually, I was at the service and I saw nothing wrong in what he said until a facebooker attacked his speach on facebook. Some said it can never be pastor Kumuyi who said this. But in one word-- What is actually wrong with this statement in his sermon today at Bauchi state?

Excerpts of a sermon on
blessedness of Full Redemption in Christ
Pastor W.F Kumuyi
"Forgiveness of sins is our inheritance in Christ
We must keep confessing what we have in Christ
and who we are
When you stand before God,you stand in the
righteousness of God which is a gift .
You don't work for it,you accept it .
To keep calling your self a sinner ,wretched etc is
to refuse to confirm what God has done for you in
Christ
Don't stop by reading Romans 3:23, go ahead
and read further ,you have justification in His
blood .
You are not a sinner anymore ,but a son ,justified
and made righteousness .
When you pray declare who you are in Christ .
You are now in Christ ,
No need to pray over or break generational
curses,you have been translated into the kingdom
of God
You are far above ,seated in Christ .
Forgiveness of sins isn't by begging ,it's the
riches of His grace .
God doesn't keep record of it .He has cleansed
your sins eternally
When He shall come,you will go with him ,since
your savior and your eternal inheritance is in
heaven ."
Today Sunday August 28,2016
Deeper Bible church service Bauchi state .

The two statements according to people that was mostly condemned in the above passage includes "No need to pray over or break generational
curses,you have been translated into the kingdom
of God"
"Forgiveness of sins isn't by begging ,it's the
riches of His grace .
God doesn't keep record of it .HE HAS CLEANSED
YOUR SINS ETERNALLY" ---Eternal security.

hmmmmm.

Actually to me I believe Pastor Kumuyi was actually referring to those who are already geniunly born again and not those who are still.looming outside repentance.

Okay Seen

What is wrong with what he preached? He is not talking to those who claim "once saved, always saved", but believers whose sins have been forgiven who should not continue to live in guilt of their past. It is not a license to go and continue in sin, believing that God's grace will forever cover your sins.

Don't people that want to cause confusion...

I cant see any pic,..show me,pls?..if not,change d headline to 'READ'

kaorama:
What is wrong with what he preached? He is not talking to those who claim "once saved, always saved", but believers whose sins have been forgiven who should not continue to live in guilt of their past. It is not a license to go and continue in sin, believing that God's grace will forever cover your sins.

But really, what is wrong with once saved forever saved?

anyimontana:
I cant see any pic,..show me,pls?..if not,change d headline to 'READ'

Very Observant sir.

newbornmacho:

But really, what is wrong with once saved forever saved?

What is wrong with it is that to believe that is heretic. One who has been saved (which is the new birth that come by grace through faith as in Romans 10 : 9-10) is expected to live in newness of life (as written in Philipians 2:12 and Luke 9:23-24). When you receive the new birth and don't live in righteousness, you will lose your salvation. Hence, the Bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling. A Believer is saved, being saved and will be saved. The first salvation (new birth) is deliverance from the PENALTY of sin, the second (new life in Christ) which is a daily salvation is deliverance from the POWER of sin and the last (new hope) is deliverance from the PRESENCE of sin.
If u read Romans 5:9-10, you will discover that there is a promise that those who has been reconciled with God SHALL be saved by His life. Also read 2 Timothy 2:10. This is talking about the when Jesus shall come to save us from the world/presence of sin.
A lot of Christian take the massage of God's grace as a license for sin. They believe that God will always forgive them and they go ahead to willfully sin. The Bible has told us that we should eat with BRETHREN (not unbelievers ooo) that commit fornication Titus 2:11-13 has explained that grace hates sin and ungodliness.

kaorama:


What is wrong with it is that to believe that is heretic. One who has been saved (which is the new birth that come by grace through faith as in Romans 10 : 9-10) is expected to live in newness of life (as written in Philipians 2:12 and Luke 9:23-24). When you receive the new birth and don't live in righteousness, you will lose your salvation. Hence, the Bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling. A Believer is saved, being saved and will be saved. The first salvation (new birth) is deliverance from the PENALTY of sin, the second (new life in Christ) which is a daily salvation is deliverance from the POWER of sin and the last (new hope) is deliverance from the PRESENCE of sin.
If u read Romans 5:9-10, you will discover that there is a promise that those who has been reconciled with God SHALL be saved by His life. Also read 2 Timothy 2:10. This is talking about the when Jesus shall come to save us from the world/presence of sin.
A lot of Christian take the massage of God's grace as a license for sin. They believe that God will always forgive them and they go ahead to willfully sin. The Bible has told us that we should eat with BRETHREN (not unbelievers ooo) that commit fornication Titus 2:11-13 has explained that grace hates sin and ungodliness.

You quoted the Bible copiously without showing where it condemns the doctrine in question . Firstly you need to know that salvation is a work commenced even before the saved person is born . 'Those whom he foreknew them he predestined to be conformed to the image of his son ' romans 8 ; the eternal foreknowledge of God initiates the Salvation process. Thereafter a chain of events follows: ' those whom he predestined them he called, those whom he called them he justified, those whom he justified them he glorified' still reading from Romans 8. This scripture among many describes a process outside the immediate control of the individual. Just like he didn't initiate it so also he can't terminate it. It's a chain reaction by which the mercy of God essentially railroads the elect into his saving grace. Even when human effort is required it is still operated within the architecture of the working of God : work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. ' Philippians 2.
Furthermore our Lord Jesus Christ himself said ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you... And again those who the father has given me no one can take out of my hands...
Essentially it is not of him that willeth or of him that runneth but of God that sheeeth mercy. Roman's 9

kaorama:


What is wrong with it is that to believe that is heretic. One who has been saved (which is the new birth that come by grace through faith as in Romans 10 : 9-10) is expected to live in newness of life (as written in Philipians 2:12 and Luke 9:23-24). When you receive the new birth and don't live in righteousness, you will lose your salvation. Hence, the Bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling. A Believer is saved, being saved and will be saved. The first salvation (new birth) is deliverance from the PENALTY of sin, the second (new life in Christ) which is a daily salvation is deliverance from the POWER of sin and the last (new hope) is deliverance from the PRESENCE of sin.
If u read Romans 5:9-10, you will discover that there is a promise that those who has been reconciled with God SHALL be saved by His life. Also read 2 Timothy 2:10. This is talking about the when Jesus shall come to save us from the world/presence of sin.
A lot of Christian take the massage of God's grace as a license for sin. They believe that God will always forgive them and they go ahead to willfully sin. The Bible has told us that we should eat with BRETHREN (not unbelievers ooo) that commit fornication Titus 2:11-13 has explained that grace hates sin and ungodliness.

Is your God that fickle to have stages of saving grace?

What was Jesus' position on this?
And what is the Holy Spirit's position on this?

The parable of the prodigal son sums our relationship with God: always find your way back home no matter the mess you put or find yourself in, out there.

We should stop belittling God by clothing him with human tendencies to hold grudges.

newbornmacho:

You quoted the Bible copiously without showing where it condemns the doctrine in question . Firstly you need to know that salvation is a work commenced even before the saved person is born . 'Those whom he foreknew them he predestined to be conformed to the image of his son ' romans 8 ; the eternal foreknowledge of God initiates the Salvation process. Thereafter a chain of events follows: ' those whom he predestined them he called, those whom he called them he justified, those whom he justified them he glorified' still reading from Romans 8. This scripture among many describes a process outside the immediate control of the individual. Just like he didn't initiate it so also he can't terminate it. It's a chain reaction by which the mercy of God essentially railroads the elect into his saving grace. Even when human effort is required it is still operated within the architecture of the working of God : work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. ' Philippians 2.
Furthermore our Lord Jesus Christ himself said ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you... And again those who the father has given me no one can take out of my hands...
Essentially it is not of him that willeth or of him that runneth but of God that sheeeth mercy. Roman's 9

Is it not an exercise in futility working out ones salvation when one was not "predestined to be conformed to the image of his son?"

It makes nonsense of the evangelizing the world concept, as it amounts to trying to undo what God has predestined.

menxer:


Is it not an exercise in futility working out ones salvation when one was not "predestined to be conformed to the image of his son?"

It makes nonsense of the evangelizing the world concept, as it amounts to trying to undo what God has predestined.

The answer to your first question is a resounding yes. Only the predestined can be saved.
However the second point doesn't necessarily follow. You see, real evangelism is programmed into the believer much like predestination itself. You don't have an option, if you are a believer you will evangelize: Paul said he preaches the gospel not necessarily as a choice but as it were under divine impulsion. The prophet Jeremiah said even when he determined to refrain from preaching and closed his mouth, the word was like fire in his bones and he had to speak! So whether we like it or not we find ourselves responding to inner grace and preaching. So we don't preach bc we want to save the world, but because it is a part of our lives and nature.

newbornmacho:

The answer to your first question is a resounding yes. Only the predestined can be saved.
However the second point doesn't necessarily follow. You see, real evangelism is programmed into the believer much like predestination itself. You don't have an option, if you are a believer you will evangelize: Paul said he preaches the gospel not necessarily as a choice but as it were under divine impulsion. The prophet Jeremiah said even when he determined to refrain from preaching and closed his mouth, the word was like fire in his bones and he had to speak! So whether we like it or not we find ourselves responding to inner grace and preaching. So we don't preach bc we want to save the world, but because it is a part of our lives and nature.

If you answer yes to the first question, the second point is inconsequential.

Those that are predestined, is not written on their forehead for one to know, nor is it by believing.

Having a burning desire to preach does not mean you are predestined, for "not all that called me Lord shall enter..."

menxer:


If you answer yes to the first question, the second question is inconsequential.

Those that are predestined, is not written on their forehead for one to know, nor is it by believing.

Having a burning desire to preach does not mean you are predestined, for "not all that called me Lord shall enter..."

You are right but I don't see how these negate my point.
Not all that call me lord shall enter..... But none shall enter without confessing him as Lord.
Preaching doesn't mean you are predestined but the predestined shall preach.
The Bible is clear on predestination being a divine prerogative in salvation.

newbornmacho:

You are right but I don't see how these negate my point.
Not all that call me lord shall enter..... But none shall enter without confessing him as Lord.
Preaching doesn't mean you are predestined but the predestined shall preach.
The Bible is clear on predestination being a divine prerogative in salvation.

Are you not Chasing your tail?

You are predestined as A, but chooses to live as and wants to be B, how does that add up?

You are afraid of where the doctrine of predestination would leave you as no one knows who is predestined.

In the light of this, It affirms my belief that that "destination" is by invitation only, and you can't invite yourself.

INTERMAN:
Actually to me I believe Pastor Kumuyi was actually referring to those who are already geniunly born again and not those who are still.looming outside repentance.

Who are you to be blameless before God. We sin every second no matter how born again we are. We are only forgiven by Grace.

"Self righteousness is the number 1 unrighteousness."........Creflo Dollar.

INTERMAN:
Actually to me I believe Pastor Kumuyi was actually referring to those who are already geniunly born again and not those who are still.looming outside repentance.

God bless you. Spiritual food from above are meant for spiritual minded people not for all. I am blessed with these few sentence I read. Our generation have deviated from the norm, but to be pleased with speeches that are negative, insults and will not make any meaningful impact in their lives.

Even a Just man falls 7 times a day. To say one is without sin is to call God a liar. Believing that one isn't sinning anymore is nothing but pride. Even Jesus tells us to ask God our father for forgiveness everyday in the Lords Prayer "and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" We are all striving for perfection, we do not become perfect the day we're baptised or born-again. We become perfect when we are finally with our maker in the eternal bliss of heaven. Have a great week!

DjAndroid:




Who are you to be blameless before God. We sin every second no matter how born again we are. We are only forgiven by Grace.

"Self righteousness is the number 1 unrighteousness."........Creflo Dollar.

You are being encourage not to be weighed down by your sins, but girdle your loin with faith, knowing that you have an advocate in heaven, Jesus christ, who have redeemed you with his blood. Remember, you cannot please God without faith.

Some people just have problem with reading and understanding... The message is very clear.

newbornmacho:

But really, what is wrong with once saved forever saved?

how can you be once saved forever saved? It can only be that way if you are
ONCE SIN FREE FOREVER SIN FREE

newbornmacho:

The answer to your first question is a resounding yes. Only the predestined can be saved.
However the second point doesn't necessarily follow. You see, real evangelism is programmed into the believer much like predestination itself. You don't have an option, if you are a believer you will evangelize: Paul said he preaches the gospel not necessarily as a choice but as it were under divine impulsion. The prophet Jeremiah said even when he determined to refrain from preaching and closed his mouth, the word was like fire in his bones and he had to speak! So whether we like it or not we find ourselves responding to inner grace and preaching. So we don't preach bc we want to save the world, but because it is a part of our lives and nature.

If only the predestined can be saved then why does God command us to go into the world and preach the world and also why does the Bible say as many as have received him to them gave he power to be sons of God. Are you saying that God has already chosen whom he will save but still sends people out to preach the world is that not an exercise in futility

menxer:


Are you not Chasing your tail?

You are predestined as A, but chooses to live as and wants to be B, how does that add up?

You are afraid of where the doctrine of predestination would leave you as no one knows who is predestined.

In the light of this, It affirms my belief that that "destination" is by invitation only, and you can't invite yourself.

I don't know how you read what I write.
Of course you don't predestine yourself, where did I imply that?
Afraid? How so?
God chooses whom he will. Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated. It's in your bible. Roman's chapter 9. Salvation is by divine election. What's hard to get?

If your are matured as a chtistain you will no the difference between being a child of God and a son of God.... The are levels in Christianity

fabre4:







If only the predestined can be saved then why does God command us to go into the world and preach the world and also why does the Bible say as many as have received him to them gave he power to be sons of God. Are you saying that God has already chosen whom he will save but still sends people out to preach the world is that not an exercise in futility

The command to go into the world and preach the gospel is similar to the command to go into the world and multiply. God in creating humans in a certain way has ensured that they will as a matter of nature obey that command. Sex drive, need for progeny etc move us in that direction. So also the creative word of God has programmed the gospel into the makeup of the elect. Even if they wanted to stop preaching they couldn't : Paul summed it up when he said ...i do it not willingly but a dispensation of the gospel is given unto me, indeed woe is me if I preach not the gospel. ... In Roman's 1 I think.

Perfecttouch:
how can you be once saved forever saved? It can only be that way if you are
ONCE SIN FREE FOREVER SIN FREE

Sin is dead! Jesus Christ killed it. Oh grave where is thy sting? Asked the apostle In 1st Corinthians 15. The sting of death is sin....and it has been destroyed. It doesn't have the kind of power you give it.

newbornmacho:

The command to go into the world and preach the gospel is similar to the command to go into the world and multiply. God in creating humans in a certain way has ensured that they will as a matter of nature obey that command. Sex drive, need for progeny etc move us in that direction. So also the creative word of God has programmed the gospel into the makeup of the elect. Even if they wanted to stop preaching they couldn't : Paul summed it up when he said ...i do it not willingly but a dispensation of the gospel is given unto me, indeed woe is me if I preach not the gospel. ... In Roman's 1 I think.

Paul said that because he knew the consequence of not preaching. Demas just like others where once workers of God yet he withdrew back in perdition

If you say God predestines ministers of the Gospel that could be acceptable but to say for only those who are predestined can be saved thats a wrong assumption



Remember this was not the original plan of God,the original plan of God was for mankind to live forever in fellowship with him but due to sin that plan was destroyed so when did the predestination take place and even jesus said that he came so that the "world" not a group of people through him might be said ( john 3:16-18) should clarify that

no wonder you never here deeper life asking for forgiveness of sins. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. JESUS even taught us to pray for forgiveness. Don't let us deceive ourselves. if you commit sin ask God to forgive you and pray for grace not to go back to sin. The blood of Jesus only works for those who are walking in the light. John says " if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins". so let us not decieve ourselves.