Pastafarian:


could you be clearer?

Maybe he is trying to tell us that they can now make Yahweh heal an amputee and prove it to us. Afterall we have been waiting since 2016!

Pastafarian:


could you be clearer?

What do you atheists believe and why? Where do you atheists get your morals from, if any

Murtadd4Christ:


What do you atheists believe and why?

I can only speak for myself, believe in evidence that can be tested and disproved if wrong

Where do you atheists get your morals from, if any

Atheism is the lack of belief in any god, nothing more. It does not seek to define goodness, or to define morality, or anything else. It is only the lack of belief in any god.

Morality comes from experience. It comes from living in a society, where it makes sense for people to work together, to live in harmony, and to build trust. Humans, just like many other animals, are social creatures. We rely upon one another to survive, and by adopting moral values based around decreasing harm and increasing well being, it is beneficial to our species as a whole. I have to live with neighbors, coworkers, the people of the city, the state, the nation, and the world. It makes rational sense, from a personal survival standpoint, to be trustworthy to those people, because there are a lot more of them than there are of me. The same is true for each individual, and when enough members of a group agree, a common moral code is established, and a society can exist and thrive, because people know more or less what to expect from each other.

Variations in moral codes occur because different societies encounter different situations, and develop different solutions. Certain moral standards become more or less universal, because the experience of most or all societies produce the same responses. This is why things like the Golden Rule (which Christians incorrectly claim originated in the Bible) exist in one form or another in many cultures throughout history.

See below

You dont seem to understand my question but I guess I didnt make myself clear. My question shouldve been, why do you believe theres no God and why? 

Most people in fact do believe in evidence that can be proven or disproved. This is not unique to atheism.


You claim morals comes from experience, society and working together? This is so farfetched and baseless to even ponder. If society practiced cannibalism does that automatically mean they have morals because theyre a"society". An immoral society can also rely on each other for a common purpose but that simply doesnt default into morals. My bible describes a people of Sodom and Gommorah who was also a society that practiced and accepted sodomy. Society simply is not a synonym for morals.See how your moral source from society falls flat.

Yes you live with neighbours, co-workers, society and the world. The fact that you are not being killed and are tolerated tells us that theres already a sense of moral code. Where does this sense of moral code comes from? As stated above, clearly not from the concept of a society. My bible as my source of morals clearly define OUR conduct in society. " Romans 12:18- If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone, Proverbs 25:21-f your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink."


Clearly society in general already live their lives based on a christian moral template whether you like it or not. My bible is my moral source, whats yours?


Where does the so called golden rule comes from? Youve fail to give references for your assumption yet you quickly claim christianity hijacked it.

In fact christianity claims this golden rule by a mere simple verse in our bible. Do unto others as you want them to do unto you. 

Mark 12:31-The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Murtadd4Christ:
You dont seem to understand my question but I guess I didnt make myself clear. My question shouldve been, why do you believe theres no God and why?

I don't believe there is no god, I believe all religion based god are manmade

a generic god however is still probable but that doesn't mean I'm saying such a god exists

Most people in fact do believe in evidence that can be proven or disproved. This is not unique to atheism.

I never claimed its unique to atheism but I'm pretty sure no faith based religion values evidence

Thing is, some theists do claim they have evidence for their god: they point to "witness testimony" and when it is pointed out to them that these "witnesses" could be mistaken or lying or simply imagining things that's when they pull out the "faith" trump card. ("It doesn't matter because I have faith." So they try to have it both ways: they know that it doesn't make sense to believe things without evidence so they try to concoct evidence to support their belief but at the same time their religion tells them that faith is a virtue so if it is pointed out to them that they don't really have any evidence at all they actually seem glad because that means they have faith and paradoxically this makes their belief stronger: they believe they are better theist if their belief flies in the face of all evidence and they still continue to believe.

You claim morals comes from experience, society and working together? This is so farfetched and baseless to even ponder. If society practiced cannibalism does that automatically mean they have morals because theyre a"society". An immoral society can also rely on each other for a common purpose but that simply doesnt default into morals.My bible describes a people of Sodom and Gommorah who was also a society that practiced and accepted sodomy. Society simply is not a synonym for morals.See how your moral source from society falls flat.

Yes you live with neighbours, co-workers, society and the world. The fact that you are not being killed and are tolerated tells us that theres already a sense of moral code. Where does this sense of moral code comes from? As stated above, clearly not from the concept of a society.

I don't believe there's already a sense of moral code that is already with us

there's a reason a suicide bomber feels his blowing up the world trade centre is right and flows with his "innate" moral code given by Allah and he's as sure that he's doing "good" as much as a Jainist who risks his life to save a rat from being killed; and to buttress this point further morality varies from society to society EVEN when those societies worship the same god if its true that there's a moral that we were born with it wouldn't vary from person to person and would be same everywhere

Everyone already decides for themselves what is right and wrong, based on a combination of principle, compassion, and social influences. Some of us aren't delusional enough to think our morals have been handed down by some omniscient figure.
Given the significant moral differences that can be found even within the members of the same religion, it's the height of hubris to claim some sort of God-given moral objectivity.

As social animals humans evolved morality to help us live together in groups. So while the vast majority of humans accept the concept of morality, different groups disagree on what is moral or immoral. The Catholic hierarchy considers artificial contraception to be immoral, most other people, including most Western Catholic laity, see contraception as either moral or morally neutral. The abortion debate has intelligent, rational, honest people disagreeing on the morality of abortion. Pacifists hold all killing is immoral, soldiers would differ.

The morality that some people claim to be "objective" is often what they feel subjectively to be moral.

My bible as my source of morals clearly define OUR conduct in society. " Romans 12:18- If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone, Proverbs 25:21-f your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink."

I'm curious as to how you see the military, do you see them all as "sinners"since they kill their enemies?

Clearly society in general already live their lives based on a christian moral template whether you like it or not. My bible is my moral source, whats yours?

what? this is an extremely empty assertion, I need you to prove society in general live their lives based on Christian moral template

Where does the so called golden rule comes from? Youve fail to give references for your assumption yet you quickly claim christianity hijacked it.

In fact christianity claims this golden rule by a mere simple verse in our bible. Do unto others as you want them to do unto you. 

Mark 12:31-The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

here's the thing, these so-called wise words have a way of getting refined overtime and layering upon one another over the years and (usually) getting better and better as humans learn from trials and errors when it comes to all aspects of life

to prove this let's look at the timeline of the wise words

first ever documented version of it was the story if the eloquent peasant which dates between 2040 – 1650 BC with the words "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to make him do."

Confucius, Mozi and Laozi then gave their own version around 500BC

"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." — Confucius (500 BC)

"If people regarded other people's families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself." — Mozi (400 BC)

"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." — Laozi (500 BC)

Greek Isocrates version is also pretty interesting

"Do not do to others that which angers you when they do it to you." – Isocrates (436–338 BC)

notice how each of these versions of the golden rule predates Jesus himself

this shows that Jesus infact HAS NO GENUINE CLAIM TO THE GOLDEN RULE, it had been existing before Jesus was born and Jesus just repeated it, something humans themselves have discovered, I'm honestly yet to see anything good Jesus preached that hadn't been known before he came, Jainism for instance is the most peaceful religion in the world, it beats even the best of Christianity and it predates Jesus himself

You are way ahead of yourself to assume theres no evidence for God. What is wrong with witness testimony? Its used all over the world and even in judicial courts. In fact how do you know about the chernorbyl accident, Pearl harbour etc. Theyre all based on historical accounts from witnesses. How do you know the earth is spherical? Its also based on witness accounts unless of course you yourself went into space to see. Witness testimony simply cannot be brushed aside by your ignorance.


Youre all over the place and assume that faith is merely a phantom believe. As usual you assume that faith needs proof to be accepted as valid even though you practice faith daily albeit in denial. First of all faith is abstract and cannot be tested physically much like love. Love itself is also abstract and yet you accept it does exists? No you cannot prove Love but you see Love in the result. thats akin to faith.


Are you now speaking in a snake tongue. Now you claim to believe theres no moral code yet earlier you claimed the Golden rule already existed throughout history.Which is it? Yes morality is already in existence. Are you killing and raping people or stealing and cheating. I bet youre not. Now on what do you base that? Please enlighten us.



What does a suicide bomber have to do with christianity and morals?The suicide bomber already violate the Golden rule without even going deeper. So if you rape your own mother is that your moral code and hence justified. 


Thats eactly where the problem comes in atheist, everyone decides for themselves, thats why the world is in such a mess. Now do you think the world wouldve been better  and more moral if it used christian principles? Again blowing hot air to claim delusion for people who believe that morals have been handed down by God. Why is this so farfetched?



I agree theres a significant moral difference between people.Why do you think so? Its because people want to justify their immorality and deny any sort of rebuke or correction. Others deny Gods existence to comfort themselves that theres no penalty for sleeping with their mothers, sisters, daughters and commit vile acts.



Again you claim that humans evolved morals based on what exactly? I have previously stated that living together simply doesnt mean living morally. You conveniently overlooked this.


Talking about general perceptions of morals has no bearing on me, Im a christian that defend christian morals and not general allegations.


Oh my goodness. what does military have to do with christianity? Is military now suddenly christianity? My bible says killing is a sin no matter what? Hence repentance must be seek when you kill someone. If a person jeopardises my life or the life of my family I will in all likelihood shoot that person but it would still not justify the killing and I must repent from it. 



No its not an empty assertion at all but merely denial on your part. Look around you and see the christian moral principles in even the laymen. You earlier claim to be social with co-workers etc. Why are you in a sense of harmony to work with and socialise with people. Why arent you killing and raping each other. See my point atheist. What is your moral source?



To claim the source of the golden rule from an eloquent peasant is indeed a pipe dream. Its merely an ancient story about Khun Anup and his donkey having an altercation with another person. Theres absolutely nothing that you use to draw even the slightest inference that he spoke about the Golden rule. Not even one sentence comes close to Jesus words at all. This is a fallacy and one cant even find an ancient codice to verify this story. Wishful thinking indeed.



Now you assume once again that because Jesus spoke the golden rule in the new testament its supposedly after the fact. In Matthew 7:12 Jesus spoke the Golden rule and echoes what Moses wrote in Leviticus 19:18 and Leviticus 19:34 respectively. As Moses spoke the Golden rule around 1445 BC which Jesus echoes in the new testament, this clearly predates Confucius, Mozi, Laozi and Socrates by a good 800-900 years.Hence the Golden rule can be claimed by christianty via our forefather Moses.



Theres just no stopping your assumptions. If these words were refined over time please furnish the proof so that we can research them.


Now if humans learn by trial and error why do we still get it so wrong after all these centuries? We are exactly back to square one selling our morals to justify our own vile desires. And all this despite the fact that humans already have a moral template to live by, christian morality, the originators of the Golden rule and other moral codes

I'm getting banned by anti spambot, I don't know what exactly I'm doing wrong