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Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by orisa37: 2:29pm On Feb 25, 2018
Just like God with His Own Hand wrote The Ten Commandments for Moses,
J.C in His Own Hand, during His 40 days Sojourn on Earth before His Resurrection, wrote The Books of The Hebrews.
Believe that and live by Its guides.
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 6:31pm On Feb 25, 2018
Xxxxx
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 10:07am On Mar 05, 2018
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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 9:13am On May 13, 2018
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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 12:43pm On May 13, 2018
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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:22pm On May 13, 2018
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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 9:08pm On May 14, 2018
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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:27pm On May 15, 2018
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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:10pm On May 16, 2018
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Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 5:14am On Jun 26, 2018
Morning
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 2:43pm On Jun 26, 2018
Grace found me
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 10:40pm On Jun 26, 2018
I see grace
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by Osezua: 11:01am On Jun 27, 2018
FALSE SECURITY Verses TRUE SECURITY

The false and unbiblical doctrine of being saved by “Faith Alone” while seemingly offering “Eternal Security” actually offers very little security when clearly examined. For example, we sometimes see good Christian men turn away from the Gospel and commit a very serious sin. If we say that committing such a serious sin has no effect on one’s salvation we contradict the Gospel. See Below. If a person who claims to be a Christian because of a “Born Again” experience commits such a sin only to later say the his original “Born Again” experience was not a true one, but that his subsequent one was true, how does he know with infallibly certainty that this is so when he had been convinced that his first experience was true ?

Even if such a Christian does not fall into serious sin how does he know that he will not do so in the future ? He can claim as Peter did that his faith and love will not fail, but the Bible warns against making such a claim. [See Mark 14: 29-31 and the article on Love, section on St. Peter.] True humility leads us to accept how easy it would be for us to fall in the future.

The false doctrine of “Faith Alone” often leads a person to put his faith in his own estimation and evaluation of how true his faith really is. And trusting in one’s own judgment is not secure at all.

The true Biblical position actually offers us much more certainty. We are saved completely by the free gift of God’s grace that is administered to us by the Sacraments as promised by Christ and by remaining in that grace by receiving it and acting in conjunction with it by a Faith working through love, Galatians 5:6. This truth offers us a true peace of mind that is based on the Rock like quality and certainty of the Promises of Christ being true and that His Sacraments would be effective by the Power of the Holy Spirit regardless of the weakness of the Priest who administers it. And our Hope in our Father’s love for us gives us assurance that if we follow the teachings of His Church that He built on Saint Peter that He will offer us the grace to avoid serious sin.


PRESUMPTION

In Jesus’ discourses on the Day of Judgment He warns against being presumptuous about one’s own salvation. He told of how many would come to Him claiming to be saved, but were not.

Matthew 7:13-14, 21-23
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. …
21 Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ ”

Matthew 25:10-13
“While they [the virgins that were foolish] went off to buy it [oil], the bridegroom came and those who were ready went into the wedding feast with him. Then the door was locked. Afterwards the other virgins came and said, ‘Lord, Lord, open the door for us!’ But he said in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, I do not know you.’

Therefore, stay awake, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”

Jesus warns us against judging ourselves or others in the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. Luke 18:9-14 “He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. ‘Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, “O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity—greedy, dishonest, adulterous—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.” But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, “O God, be merciful to me a sinner.” I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.’ ”

The Pharisee credited God for his spiritual blessings by thanking Him for them. However, God was displeased with him because he was presumptuous about his own spirituality and he assumed God’s sovereign role as judge.

Also see the Article on Love, section on St. Peter.

1 Peter 5:8-9
“ Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour. Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings.”


SERIOUS SIN CAN SEPARATE THE CHRISTIAN FROM GOD

If we have received Jesus Christ then we have received His gift of eternal life. If we later reject Jesus then we lose that gift of Eternal life.

St. Paul says in Romans 8:38-39 "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." But notice what he does not say. He does not say that sin cannot separate us from God. This is why the New Testament constantly warns the believers to avoid serious deadly sin.

Examples:

2 Peter 2:20
“For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.” RSV

1 Corinthians 6:6-20 is addressed to believers and they are warned by St. Paul to avoid sins that would cause them to lose their salvation.

1 Corinthians 6:6-20
“But rather brother goes to court against brother, and that before unbelievers? … Why not rather put up with injustice? Why not rather let yourselves be cheated? Instead, you inflict injustice and cheat, and this to brothers. Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. … 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?” NAB

Again in Ephesians, Galatians, and elsewhere we find more warnings for to Christians to avoid sins that would lead to eternal damnation. These warnings would not make sense if a person could not lose their salvation.

Ephesians 5:3-8
“But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints. Let there be no filthiness, nor silly talk, nor levity, which are not fitting; but instead let there be thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not associate with them, for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light” RSV

Galatians 5:16,19-22
“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh…19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness…”

Hebrews 10:26-29
“For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace ?” RSV

Hebrews 6:4-8
“For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.” RSV

1 John 5:16-17
“If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.” NAB

If a person could not lose their salvation these warnings would be meaningless. The breaking of these commandments leads a person to hell, (unless he is subsequently renewed by God’s grace. Cf. Jn 20: 21-23, James 5: 13-16, Lk 15: 23-24, and 1 Jn 5: 14-17.)

Some say that when a person becomes a child of God, a son, he always remains a son so therefore he cannot lose Salvation. Actually the story of the prodigal son proves a person can lose his salvation. He can throw away his inheritance. In this story the wayward son had become DEAD.

Luke 15:32
“It was fitting to make merry and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.” RSV.

So, even if we remain a son, we can lose our inheritance and become spiritually dead. Because the son repented, he was accepted back into the family.

We are not even our own judge as Saint Paul points out. Philippians 3:11-12 “…if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. It is not that I have already taken hold of it or have already attained perfect maturity, but I continue my pursuit in hope that I may possess it, since I have indeed been taken possession of by Christ (Jesus).”

1 Corinthians 4:3-5
“It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself; I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord. Therefore, do not make any judgment before the appointed time, until the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God.” The word “acquitted” is a translation of the Greek word -DIKAIOO (Strong’s number 1344) which means justified.




Question :

Do the following verses prove as true the doctrine that we cannot lose salvation ?

John 10:27-28
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.”

Answer : No

Three reasons.
1.
The fact that there are thousands and thousands of “Bible Alone” churches each contradicting each other should give great caution to the idea of trusting in one’s own private interpretation. Since, the above doctrine contradicts what the Church established by Christ teaches, it must be false.


2.
The phrases “eternal life” and “they shall never perish” describe the gifts given to those who “hear” and “follow” Jesus, the One and only Savior. Only as long as one hears and follows Jesus do we have those gifts. Jesus has eternal life by the very essence of who He is, Life itself. The Christian possesses these gifts of eternal life and of never perishing in a way that is dependent on Jesus and dependent on remaining in a saving relationship with Him. If a Christian later rejects Jesus he then loses those gifts.

The early Christians lived in a time when life was hard. Without electricity to keep one’s food from spoiling or without the abundance of clean running water every individual had to be constantly aware of one’s own physical mortality. In 2 Corinthians 11:23-27 Saint Paul Paul lists about a dozen different ways he might have physically died or have been lost (at sea).

Without Jesus Christ the pagans were spiritually dead and spiritually lost. The pagans had many gods. It was so hard to tell if they were pleasing the “right god” at the right time. They even acknowledged the unknown god, to cover that contingency, Acts 17:23.

Jesus gives His followers the gifts of spiritual life and spiritual guidance. We never have to worry about losing our physical life, or of being physically lost, because He gives us these more important gifts of spiritual life and spiritual guidance. In Christ we have security as long as we remain in Christ.

Protestants will often claim a spiritual unity based on their claim to “having a personal relationship with Jesus,” and “being saved by Faith Alone” and by “following the Bible Alone.” However, when they start to define what those vague phrases actually mean the end up splitting into thousands and thousands of denominations.

They have no infallible guidance as to how many books belong in the New Testament, the Bible, or to what the names of those books are. They also have no infallible guidance as to what those books mean (according to their theology) unless they arrogantly assume that only they and their small particular group is sincere in listening to the Holy Spirit.

They are spiritually lost in how to answer many questions. How can a Protestant claim to know that the Bible doesn’t really mean that Baptism really saves us even though the Bible says that it does ?

How can a Protestant claim “to know” that the Bible does not really mean that Jesus gives us His flesh to eat and His blood to drink and that we perish if we do not eat and drink His body and blood when the Bible says that Jesus does do this and that we must eat and drink His flesh and blood ?

God does not want us to be spiritually lost in any way. It is by hearing Jesus’ words and following and trusting in His promises that He gives to the Church He started, that we can have infallible guidance to answer all the important questions we might have.

Christ holds us in his hand (Jn. 10:28) and no one else can forcibly remove us, but we are still free to leave. When we receive Christ we receive the gift of eternal life, but if we later abandon our faith in Christ and reject He who is Life, then we also reject His gift of eternal life.


3.
The misunderstanding of “once saved always saved” is clearly contradicted in several other scripture passages.

When we are "baptized into Christ" (Rom. 6:3), we receive the gift of adoptive sonship. The parable of the prodigal son teaches us that if we disinherit ourselves then we become spiritually dead. Luke 15:32 "…your brother was dead…" 1 John 5:16-17 "There is such a thing as deadly sin…All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly."

Salvation is an ongoing process.

Philippians 2:12-13
“So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work."

Saint Paul begins and ends his discussion on faith using the phrase “the obedience of faith.” Rom 1:5 and 16:26. If we go to a doctor and he tells us to take some medicine and we do not, can we say that we really have faith in what he is telling us to do ? Whenever we sin against God’s will we are saying that we don’t really believe that His will is best for us. Our faith is imperfect in those instances. God perfects our faith through our acceptance of our cross that He asks us to carry.

1 Peter 4:1
“Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same thought, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin… ” RSV

Romans 11:13-24
“Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. … 19 You will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off. And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.” RSV



Therefore, this verse teaches that we could fail in kindness, i.e. love, and be cut off, that is lose our salvation.

Fire is often used in a bad context as below:

Ezekiel 15:6-7
“Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD: Like the wood of the vine among the trees of the forest, which I have destined as fuel for the fire, do I make the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will set my face against them; they have escaped from the fire, but the fire shall devour them.”

John 15:4-6
“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.”
Cf. Ezekiel 15:6-7

John 6:56
“He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”

The word “abide” in the above verses, Jn 6:56 and 15:6, is the same Greek word, Strong’s number 3306, which is sometimes translated as “remain,” or as in this case “abide.” The context makes clear that we must remain, or abide, in Christ because if we do not remain in His grace then we lose that union with Him by which we are saved.
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by Osezua: 11:02am On Jun 27, 2018
SALVATION IS NOT ONLY A PAST EVENT

Some Protestants understand Justification in the life of the believer as only a past event. Some will quote John 19:30 “…It is finished.” And they will claim that this means that they cannot lose their salvation because it is past tense.

John 19:30 “…It is finished…”

The “it” here cannot be a reference to our Justification because we read in Romans 4:25 “…who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.” RSV. We saw in Hebrews 11: 9, quoted above, how Abraham’s Justification was on ongoing event in his life. James also makes this same point.

James 2:21
“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar ?” RSV

Besides, our salvation cannot be completed because we also read,

Lk 13:32
“(Jesus says)
‘Behold, I cast out demons and I perform healings today and tomorrow, and on the third day I accomplish my purpose.” NAB

The third day is a reference to Easter Sunday, the day He rose from the dead.


Salvation has past, present, and future aspects in all of our lives. This is why the Bible speaks of it in the past, present, and future tense.

Past tense:

Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace you have been saved through faith…”

Present tense:

1 Peter 3:21
“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you…”

1 Corinthians 1:18
“For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

Future tense:

Galatians 2:17
“But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? Of course not!"

Matthew 24:13
“But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.”

1 Corinthians 7:18-19
“Was any one at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was any one at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.”

Here, in Corinthians, Saint Paul contrasts the ritual law, circumcision, with the Moral Law of the 10 commandments. What counts is the Moral Law. If he had meant to say that we are justified by faith alone, apart from the good works of keeping the commandments, he would not have spoken this way. The keeping of the commandments is our life long journey of Justification. If we fail in a mortal way, 1 John 5: 16-17, we lose our salvation.

In John Chapter 15 Jesus tells us that we are like branches that must remain connected to Him, the True Vine, or else we will lose our salvation and we will be thrown into the fire to be burned.

John 15:5-10
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you.8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples.9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love.10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.’

In the verses above in the fifteenth chapter of John the English word “abide” in verses 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 is a translation of a certain Greek word that is numbered 3306 in Strong’s Concordance. John uses this same Greek word in John 6:56 where it is also translated as “abide.” In these chapters, 13 through 17, John gives us an account of Jesus’ final evening and Last Supper discourse with His disciples. By using the same word, abide, in John 6:56 Jesus indicates how we are to remain in His Love and to remain connected to Him, the True Vine.

John 6:56
“He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”

Therefore, unless a person is faithful in attending Mass and continues to receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, that individual is not abiding in the manner prescribed by Jesus Christ.

Those who wish to separate faith from good works are taking a position that Saint Paul never takes. Saint Paul not only begins but also ends his discourse on faith in the context of obedience. Saint Paul never separates obeying the moral law, from faith. Christ’s obedience of the moral law does not excuse us from obeying it, rather by obeying it He won the grace for us to enable us to obey it.

Romans 1:5
“through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations …”

Romans 16:26
“ … but is now disclosed and through the prophetic writings is made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith” RSV

Philippians 4:13
“I can do all things in him who strengthens me.” RSV

Romans 6:15-16
“What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?” RSV

Thus, we can see that while Salvation can be spoken of as past event, that is, we Christians have already received the gift of eternal life, in order for us to hold onto that gift we must remain connected to the vine and remain in God’s grace by abiding in His Love and His commandments and we must persevere in obedience to the end [Mat 24:13] or else we will lose our gift of eternal life and be cast off into the fire [John 15:6] on judgment day.



SAINT PAUL COULD LOSE HIS SALVATION

2 Timothy 1:12
“and therefore I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am sure that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me.”

But we must remain in His protective care by persevering in faith so that we might receive the reward that He is guarding for us.

2 Timothy 4:18 KJV
“And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever.”

2 Timothy 4:18 RSV
“The Lord will rescue me from every evil and save [“save” - Greek word 4982 ] me for his heavenly kingdom.”

Matthew 24:12-13
“And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. But he who endures [ “endures” - Greek word 5278, sometimes translated as “perseveres” ] to the end will be saved. RSV

We know that God will do His part, and we can have a moral assurance that we will “endure” or “persevere” to the end, but other passages that I will point out show that it is possible that we will not.

2 Timothy 4:8
“From now on the crown of righteousness awaits me, which the Lord, the just judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but to all who have longed for his appearance.”

As his earthly life comes to a end he speaks of the "crown" and he gives the reason why he will receive it. It is because he has "kept the faith," but the implication is that if he had not persevered in his faith he would have lost his crown, his salvation. Matthew 24:13 "… the one who perseveres to the end will be saved."

Saint Paul does speak of the crown of righteousness which he will receive, but this is spoken of only just before he is about to be martyred, after he has "finished the race." He speaks this way in order to encourage others to persevere in their faith and hope in Christ.



2 Timothy 1:16-17
“May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me; he was not ashamed of my chains, but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me eagerly and found me - ”

2 Timothy 4:6-8
“For I am already on the point of being sacrificed; the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.”

Saint Paul clearly states that he could lose his salvation.


We know that Saint Paul is a Christian (see Galatians 2:19-20), but even he points out how he could lose his salvation if he were to turn from the Gospel. In 1 Corinthians 9:27 Saint Paul says “ …but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.” RSV

However, some people will contest that the word “disqualified” refers to Paul loosing his extra merit and glory and does not refer to Paul loosing his salvation. So, the key is to prove what this word means. The word “disqualified” is translated from the Greek word “ADOKIMOS” (Strong's # 96.) Saint Paul makes the meaning of this word clear in his second letter to the Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 13:5
“Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? —unless indeed you fail to meet the test!” RSV

Here Saint Paul uses the same Greek word “ADOKIMOS” (#96), except here, in English, it is translated as “fail.” The context is clear. It refers to people who are spiritually lost and without the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

So, the question we must ask is, “What is lost in 1 Cor 9:27 ?” This word “ADOKIMOS” does not modify any reward that Saint Paul might have received, rather it modifies Saint Paul himself. 1 Corinthians 9:27 “ … lest … I myself should be disqualified (ADOKIMOS).” Therefore, St. Paul is speaking in 1 Cor 9:27 above how he could lose his salvation.

In summary, these three observations are unmistakable.

Observation 1:
Saint Paul is a Christian and already has saving grace.
See Galatians 2:19-20.

Observation 2:
The Greek word “ADOKIMOS" (Strong's # 96.) refers to someone who is spiritually lost and does not have saving grace.
See 2 Corinthians 13:5 above.

Observation 3:
Saint Paul points out that this condition could apply to him if he turns from the Gospel. See 1 Corinthians 9:27.

We must ask, “What does “ADOKIMOS” modify ?” “ADOKIMOS” does not modify any “rewards” that Saint Paul might have received. “ADOKIMOS” modifies Saint Paul himself.

1 Corinthians 9:27
“ …but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified (“ADOKIMOS”).” RSV


CONCLUSION

Therefore, Salvation can be lost. A true security can be found, not by trusting in our own determination that our own faith is the true kind, but rather trusting in the Love of our Father in Heaven to faithfully guide His Church, and by trusting in the Truth of Promises of Jesus Christ, and by trusting in the Power of the Holy Spirit to effect those Promises.
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 8:08pm On Jun 28, 2018
I see grace...
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 8:56pm On Jun 29, 2018
Lord Jesus
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by Playwhizard(m): 11:45pm On Jun 29, 2018
jiggaz:
One of the benefits of believing the gospel of grace is that it completely changes the way you read the Bible. You realize that God is not in the bait and switch business of drawing you in with love only to hammer you with law – He is love all the way through. When you see this you will no longer get frightened when you read a passage like Hebrews 10:26 or this one four chapters earlier:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (Heb 6:4-6)

If you wear the lenses of performance-based Christianity, this could be a scary scripture, for it sounds like your salvation hinges on your behavior. Do good, get good, but fall away and you’re lost forever. If that’s how this scripture appears to you, change your glasses! What you look through determines what you see. So read this scripture through the lens of Jesus and His finished work.

So who and what is this passage describing?

Some say that this scripture is referring to Christians – those who have become sharers or partakers in the Holy Spirit. If so, then the argument being made is deliberately nonsensical. If they fall away it is impossible for them to get saved again because Jesus would have to come and die again. Since Jesus isn’t going to die again, then it’s impossible for them to fall away. Instead of being a threat to your eternal salvation, this verse actually supports it. But I know not everyone will agree.

How many times can you be born again?

I have heard one reputable teacher say that if you are saved through an act of your free will, then you can get unsaved through an act of your free will. I guess the conclusion follows the premise but how true is the premise? Were you born into this world through an act of your free will? No, you had absolutely no say in the matter. So what about your spiritual birth?

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. (Joh 1:12-13).

To be born again literally means to be born “from above” or, as John puts it, “born of God.” It is 100% a work of the Spirit. You may think that you came to God of your own free will, but reflect for a moment on what actually happened. Who was it that planted and watered the seed of the gospel? (Not you.) Who was it that made the seed grow? (Not you.) Who was it that lifted the veil so that you could see things as they really are? (Not you.) Do you see? You would never have called on the name of the Lord if He had not first called on you.

I don’t mean to get all zen on you, but here’s my point: When you were dead in the trespasses and uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with Christ (Col 2:13). You were dead; now you are alive – all this is because of Him.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, (2 Cor 5:17-18a)

The important thing is not how you got saved, but that you
are saved. When you received the gift of salvation, you became a new creation. If you were to fall away, it would be impossible for you to be born again because you have already been born again . It would be like an adult trying to return to the womb and re-enter the world through the birth canal. Just as it can’t happen in the natural, it can’t happen in the spiritual. Once you’re born you’re born! To claim that you can lose your salvation – that you can undo what God has done – is like saying that God makes mistakes. And He doesn’t.

You may act like an old creation just as a butterfly may act like a caterpillar. But when you do, you are acting contrary to you true identity. We used to say that Christians who fell into sin were back-sliders. But a more accurate description is that they are hypocrites. They are acting contrary to their true identity in Christ.

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. (Heb 12:14)

“Be holy” is not an instruction for improving performance; it’s an admonition to be who you truly are. Be holy, because you are, in fact, holy. “We have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus once for all ” (Heb 10:10).

Eat the bread of life, don’t just taste it

Others say that this scripture (Heb 6:4-6 remember?) is referring to unbelievers. It is describing those who have tasted but not eaten the heavenly gift. They have seen the light but preferred the darkness. They may have received the gospel with joy but the seed never took root and grew. When trouble came they fell away. To my mind this is a perfect description of Judas.

Along with the other disciples Judas was involved in a supernatural ministry that saw him casting out demons and healing the sick (Mk 6:13). He may have even prophesied in Jesus’ name. Judas tasted the goodness of the word of God but ultimately he rejected it. When he walked out of the first communion he walked out on Jesus
. He was basically saying, “No, your blood and your body are not good enough for me.” Judas preferred a DIY religion to the grace of God.

Hebrews 6:4-6 says that it is impossible for people like Judas to be brought back to the place of repentance. Why? Because they have heard the truth and rejected it. They have followed the way of Cain, held to the teaching of Balaam, and are in danger of ending up like Korah. Those who have never heard the good news of God’s grace may yet receive it. But those who have heard and hardened their hearts toward it, are well and truly lost.

A hard heart is a deadly thing. It will keep you from repenting, it will keep you restless and in bondage to works:
So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert.” (Heb 3:7-cool

Judas heard the voice of the Living Word but hardened his heart. He became restless to the point of suicide. He never came to the place of repentance. He never entered that rest which comes only through faith in Christ.

Righteous rain

In Hebrews 5 and 6 we learn that Jesus has been designated by God as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. To a Hebrew reader raised on the covenant of law, this would have been an astonishing announcement: “Jesus, the eternal high priest, will forever mediate a new and superior covenant of grace underwritten by the unshakeable oath of God.” There are only two possible responses to such an announcement:

Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. (Heb 6:7-cool

We can either receive the blessing of God that comes down from heaven like rain and, by so doing, become fruitful and useful, or we can reject what God offers us and be worthless and in danger of being cursed. The righteousness that God gives comes to us is like rain:

You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the Lord, have created it. (Isa 45:cool

God sends His rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. All we can do is respond. We can either put up umbrellas of religious works and say, like Judas, “No thanks, I don’t need it.” Or we can say, “Rain on this filthy sinner and make me clean.” The bad news of the old covenant is that no one will be declared righteous by observing the law (Rom 3:20). The good news of the new is that the righteousness gifted by God comes through faith in Jesus to all who believe (Rom 3:21).

https://escapetoreality.org/2012/02/28/hebrews-6v4-6/

do you attend SCC
do you know pastor Chris segun onayinka
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 6:54am On Jun 30, 2018
Playwhizard:


do you attend SCC
do you know pastor Chris segun onayinka
No... What is SCC?
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by Playwhizard(m): 12:36am On Jul 01, 2018
jiggaz:
No... What is SCC?
Saints community church
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 5:45am On Jul 01, 2018
Playwhizard:

Saints community church
Okay.
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:35am On Jul 01, 2018
Lord Jesus
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 8:16pm On Jul 18, 2018
Lord Jesus.... The altogether lovely one...
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:38am On Jul 19, 2018
Lord Jesus
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 2:38pm On Sep 09, 2018
Thank you Lord Jesus!!
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:13pm On Nov 10, 2018
Yes Lord
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by Ken4Christ: 10:13pm On Nov 10, 2018
jiggaz:
One of the benefits of believing the gospel of grace is that it completely changes the way you read the Bible. You realize that God is not in the bait and switch business of drawing you in with love only to hammer you with law – He is love all the way through. When you see this you will no longer get frightened when you read a passage like Hebrews 10:26 or this one four chapters earlier:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (Heb 6:4-6)

If you wear the lenses of performance-based Christianity, this could be a scary scripture, for it sounds like your salvation hinges on your behavior. Do good, get good, but fall away and you’re lost forever. If that’s how this scripture appears to you, change your glasses! What you look through determines what you see. So read this scripture through the lens of Jesus and His finished work.

So who and what is this passage describing?

Some say that this scripture is referring to Christians – those who have become sharers or partakers in the Holy Spirit. If so, then the argument being made is deliberately nonsensical. If they fall away it is impossible for them to get saved again because Jesus would have to come and die again. Since Jesus isn’t going to die again, then it’s impossible for them to fall away. Instead of being a threat to your eternal salvation, this verse actually supports it. But I know not everyone will agree.

How many times can you be born again?

I have heard one reputable teacher say that if you are saved through an act of your free will, then you can get unsaved through an act of your free will. I guess the conclusion follows the premise but how true is the premise? Were you born into this world through an act of your free will? No, you had absolutely no say in the matter. So what about your spiritual birth?

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. (Joh 1:12-13).

To be born again literally means to be born “from above” or, as John puts it, “born of God.” It is 100% a work of the Spirit. You may think that you came to God of your own free will, but reflect for a moment on what actually happened. Who was it that planted and watered the seed of the gospel? (Not you.) Who was it that made the seed grow? (Not you.) Who was it that lifted the veil so that you could see things as they really are? (Not you.) Do you see? You would never have called on the name of the Lord if He had not first called on you.

I don’t mean to get all zen on you, but here’s my point: When you were dead in the trespasses and uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with Christ (Col 2:13). You were dead; now you are alive – all this is because of Him.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, (2 Cor 5:17-18a)

The important thing is not how you got saved, but that you
are saved. When you received the gift of salvation, you became a new creation. If you were to fall away, it would be impossible for you to be born again because you have already been born again . It would be like an adult trying to return to the womb and re-enter the world through the birth canal. Just as it can’t happen in the natural, it can’t happen in the spiritual. Once you’re born you’re born! To claim that you can lose your salvation – that you can undo what God has done – is like saying that God makes mistakes. And He doesn’t.

You may act like an old creation just as a butterfly may act like a caterpillar. But when you do, you are acting contrary to you true identity. We used to say that Christians who fell into sin were back-sliders. But a more accurate description is that they are hypocrites. They are acting contrary to their true identity in Christ.

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. (Heb 12:14)

“Be holy” is not an instruction for improving performance; it’s an admonition to be who you truly are. Be holy, because you are, in fact, holy. “We have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus once for all ” (Heb 10:10).

Eat the bread of life, don’t just taste it

Others say that this scripture (Heb 6:4-6 remember?) is referring to unbelievers. It is describing those who have tasted but not eaten the heavenly gift. They have seen the light but preferred the darkness. They may have received the gospel with joy but the seed never took root and grew. When trouble came they fell away. To my mind this is a perfect description of Judas.

Along with the other disciples Judas was involved in a supernatural ministry that saw him casting out demons and healing the sick (Mk 6:13). He may have even prophesied in Jesus’ name. Judas tasted the goodness of the word of God but ultimately he rejected it. When he walked out of the first communion he walked out on Jesus
. He was basically saying, “No, your blood and your body are not good enough for me.” Judas preferred a DIY religion to the grace of God.

Hebrews 6:4-6 says that it is impossible for people like Judas to be brought back to the place of repentance. Why? Because they have heard the truth and rejected it. They have followed the way of Cain, held to the teaching of Balaam, and are in danger of ending up like Korah. Those who have never heard the good news of God’s grace may yet receive it. But those who have heard and hardened their hearts toward it, are well and truly lost.

A hard heart is a deadly thing. It will keep you from repenting, it will keep you restless and in bondage to works:
So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert.” (Heb 3:7-cool

Judas heard the voice of the Living Word but hardened his heart. He became restless to the point of suicide. He never came to the place of repentance. He never entered that rest which comes only through faith in Christ.

Righteous rain

In Hebrews 5 and 6 we learn that Jesus has been designated by God as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. To a Hebrew reader raised on the covenant of law, this would have been an astonishing announcement: “Jesus, the eternal high priest, will forever mediate a new and superior covenant of grace underwritten by the unshakeable oath of God.” There are only two possible responses to such an announcement:

Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. (Heb 6:7-cool

We can either receive the blessing of God that comes down from heaven like rain and, by so doing, become fruitful and useful, or we can reject what God offers us and be worthless and in danger of being cursed. The righteousness that God gives comes to us is like rain:

You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the Lord, have created it. (Isa 45:cool

God sends His rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. All we can do is respond. We can either put up umbrellas of religious works and say, like Judas, “No thanks, I don’t need it.” Or we can say, “Rain on this filthy sinner and make me clean.” The bad news of the old covenant is that no one will be declared righteous by observing the law (Rom 3:20). The good news of the new is that the righteousness gifted by God comes through faith in Jesus to all who believe (Rom 3:21).

https://escapetoreality.org/2012/02/28/hebrews-6v4-6/

This is twisted interpretation of the Scripture. Salvation can be lost. God used the example of the Jews who left Egypt for the promised land to warn the church to remain steadfast.

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING from the living God.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 8:24am On Nov 11, 2018
Thank you Lord Jesus... The altogether lovely One.
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 5:55am On Nov 13, 2018
Morning
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 10:32pm On Nov 15, 2018
Lord Jesus
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 6:35pm On Jan 06
Thank you Lord Jesus
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:53pm On Mar 04
Lord Jesus the altogether lovely One... .........
Re: Can Salvation Be Lost? Let's See : Hebrews 6:4-6 - Paul Ellis by jiggaz(m): 7:10pm On Mar 05
Evening

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