SEFAGO:

Learn the history of the bible you are using as your argument, b4 you sue it. The assumption you are making is that these stories are true.

Do you have problems understanding english language?

There is a reason words like "reported" or "recorded" are used in discussions. Go and check the dictionary and then come back to make the ridiculous claim again.

9jaganja:

Now I see the ignorance in you boy!!!!!!. So because the kids are assumed witches, they should be killed? You dodged that part that states in your Bible that thou shall not suffer a witch to live. right? I hate discussing issues with folks who dodge the your opponent's points and go ahead to say trash about his basis.

You have resort to insults again? Now let clear this up for you.

You are quoting the laws of the universe and physics yet you say your "Jesus" was given power by "god". Does that law of physics allow water to be turn into wine? Does that law of physics Allow a dead man to be resurrected? Does that law of physics allow two loafs of bread a two fish to feed hundreds of people?, Does that law of the universe allow a chopped off ear to be placed back to the head without any surgical mean? I mean common you are highly inconsistent here. You turn around and say the power of the child witches are not as strong as those of the exorcists well guess what? The power of Jesus wasn't as strong as that of the Roman army.

You quote the Bible but even the Bible recognizes these supernatural powers. How do you make it work? First you deny juju then you turn around and say jesus got those powers from "god" that alone proves juju exists.

You say it was written in the scriptures? What da hell? That's no proof at all. If I ask 50cent why are you the best rapper in the world and then he replies to me saying because I said it in my album. Does the fact that 50cent said he's the best rapper makes him the best rapper? Think right partner and think well. You can't go ahead and deny juju then turn around and say jesus got his own powers from "god" that is enough reason to prove juju exists. What was jesus doing in an Egyptian temple where he was dealing with high magic and crowned a master? Even jesus was dealing with high magic. The so called Bible you guys read was written by men who had racist, sexist, and bigotry in their heads. Bring your best pastor forward for a debate on juju denial and see if he'll win.

I agree with you that RichyBlack on this issue has been avoiding points raised and instead would create a totally new dimension since his own beliefs are contradictory.

He claims to be a christian and I have used events recorded in the bible to confront his "physical laws are supreme" position.

The bible clearly states "that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places" (this is from what I can remember on the quote before someone creates a diversion and state that there is a word missing or words added.

Let us respect facts, logic and common sense.

Why must we discard something simply because the white claims it does not exist? Is this not inferiority complex in action?

Ok now that the bible is hocus pocus- as agreed then you should use it as a statement like- jonah was said to have been swallowed by a fish- doesn't it defy physical law (it makes you seem like you believe in it)

Let us respect facts, logic and common sense.

i think you especially should do the same. the way you presented the bible stories, seemed like you believed in them.

Why must we discard something simply because the white claims it does not exist? Is this not inferiority complex in action?

We are discarding it because it is irrational, please don't bring race into this

SEFAGO:

We are discarding it because it is irrational, please don't bring race into this

You are obviously on anther planet. I am done with you on this thread as your level of reasoning is dangerously low.

good run away. Agreed my level of reasoning is low.yours is far lower than low then

Why must we discard something simply because the white claims it does not exist? Is this not inferiority complex in action?

who said the conclusion that juju is a fraud is based on the opinion of whites?

Juju doesn't exist until it's effects are observed. Using the white man's book (Bible) to prove your point can be consider inferiority complex right?

Oga Richyblack - try looking up freemasons and knights templars

bawomolo:

[size=14pt]who said the conclusion that juju is a fraud is based on the opinion of whites?[/size]

Juju doesn't exist until it's effects are observed. Using the white man's book (Bible) to prove your point can be consider inferiority complex right?

Excellent!

Some of the proponents of juju, do not even believe it works but hold on to the rubbish in the name of "preserving our culture".

9jaganja:

Now I see the ignorance in you boy!!!!!!. So because the kids are assumed witches, they should be killed? You dodged that part that states in your Bible that thou shall not suffer a witch to live. right? I hate discussing issues with folks who dodge the your opponent's points and go ahead to say trash about his basis.

@9jaganja,

Since you people believe in juju, witches and all those crap, I was only making you see reason why those children could actually be witches. Aren't you glad I'm trying to reason with you?

You have resort to insults again? Now let clear this up for you.

You are quoting the laws of the universe and physics yet you say your "Jesus" was given power by "god". Does that law of physics allow water to be turn into wine? Does that law of physics Allow a dead man to be resurrected? Does that law of physics allow two loafs of bread a two fish to feed hundreds of people?, Does that law of the universe allow a chopped off ear to be placed back to the head without any surgical mean? I mean common you are highly inconsistent here. You turn around and say the power of the child witches are not as strong as those of the exorcists well guess what? The power of Jesus wasn't as strong as that of the Roman army.

You quote the Bible but even the Bible recognizes these supernatural powers. How do you make it work? First you deny juju then you turn around and say jesus got those powers from "god" that alone proves juju exists.

You say it was written in the scriptures? What da hell? That's no proof at all. If I ask 50cent why are you the best rapper in the world and then he replies to me saying because I said it in my album. Does the fact that 50cent said he's the best rapper makes him the best rapper? Think right partner and think well. You can't go ahead and deny juju then turn around and say jesus got his own powers from "god" that is enough reason to prove juju exists. What was jesus doing in an Egyptian temple where he was dealing with high magic and crowned a master? Even jesus was dealing with high magic. The so called Bible you guys read was written by men who had racist, sexist, and bigotry in their heads. Bring your best pastor forward for a debate on juju denial and see if he'll win.

Nowhere did I insult you, so stop crying wolf. I dare you to point to where I insulted you.

Do you have a position or are just arguing for the sake of arguing?

My position is simple:

1. ALL juju claims are fraudulent!

2. My Christian beliefs are based on faith.

These two positions are not inconsistent. Your colonial masters that subjugated, Nigeria, Africa and most of the world belonged to the same set - the set of people who are Christians but will destroy any juju opposition in their way. Juju was no match for these Christian soldiers!

There is no historical account anywhere that juju stopped the colonial forces. I submit two cases:

1. In 1897, the mighty Benin Empire was sacked by British forces and[b] the Oba was arrested, jailed and sent on exile.[/b] Despite the large number of human sacrifices carried out by the Oba to secure victory against Her Majesty's forces, the laws of physics had to be obeyed - and the British understood these laws!

2. In 1902, the slave-trading Aro Confederacy, which carried out human sacrifices to their so-called Long Juju was destroyed by British forces. This despicable confederacy applied the fraud of juju to enslave large populations of Igbos, but were subdued by the British who understood the basic mechanics of the laws of the universe, the inviolable laws of nature. Their worthless incantations to unknown, dead spirits was no match for high-velocity projectiles that had only one goal - obeying the laws of physics!

Afam:


I agree with you that RichyBlack on this issue has been avoiding points raised and instead would create a totally new dimension since his own beliefs are contradictory.

He claims to be a christian and I have used events recorded in the bible to confront his "physical laws are supreme" position.

The bible clearly states "that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places" (this is from what I can remember on the quote before someone creates a diversion and state that there is a word missing or words added.

Let us respect facts, logic and common sense.

Why must we discard something simply because the white claims it does not exist? Is this not inferiority complex in action?

@Afam,

You and 9jaganja are making circular arguments.

Let me crystallize the essence of your argument:
1. How can I dismiss all juju claims when I'm a Christian?
2. By believing in Christ, then I must believe that juju is real.

Are you guys for real?

While my belief in Christ is based on faith, my assertion that ALL juju claims are fraudulent is based on common sense. Faith and common sense are not mutually exclusive!

*The British were Christians but still used their guns to fight!
*You Afam, you're a Christian, but still depend on the laws of the universe - your software, your web access, your cell phones, only work because there are well laid out laws and theorems that govern how they work.
* The Pope uses a bullet-proof Popemobile, not because he is not a Christian, but because he knows that the laws of the universe are inviolable by mortals.

*On 9jaganja questions regarding the miracles performed by Christ, you know as well as I do (being a Christian) that Christ was no mortal, however, the Pope is a mortal.

It's you and 9jaganja that are dodging the issue at hand. The title of this thread is  Juju Claims Are Fraudulent: An African Fetish (Published In 1905).

Trying to question my Christian faith is dodging the issue.

[size=14pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

A Related Topic:
Why Is Witchcraft So Prevalent in Africa
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-202985.32.html

Just read the yahoo article.Making children swallow cement, bathing them in acid, setting them on fire? God god god god god. Aren't there laws, law enforcement and a government in place in the area? I'm getting tired of being a Nigerian and defending the indefensible. Arbitrary geographical classification I had no hand in. Hopelessly backward country, disgraceful setta people. And of course Nigerians won't step in to save these kids. That's forever the job of Europeans.

RichyBlacK:

@Afam,

You and 9jaganja are making circular arguments.

Let me crystallize the essence of your argument:
1. How can I dismiss all juju claims when I'm a Christian?
2. By believing in Christ, then I must believe that juju is real.

Are you guys for real?

While my belief in Christ is based on faith, my assertion that ALL juju claims are fraudulent is based on common sense. Faith and common sense are not mutually exclusive!

*The British were Christians but still used their guns to fight!
*You Afam, you're a Christian, but still depend on the laws of the universe - your software, your web access, your cell phones, only work because there are well laid out laws and theorems that govern how they work.
* The Pope uses a bullet-proof Popemobile, not because he is not a Christian, but because he knows that the laws of the universe are inviolable by mortals.

*On 9jaganja questions regarding the miracles performed by Christ, you know as well as I do (being a Christian) that Christ was no mortal, however, the Pope is a mortal.

It's you and 9jaganja that are dodging the issue at hand. The title of this thread is  Juju Claims Are Fraudulent: An African Fetish (Published In 1905).

Trying to question my Christian faith is dodging the issue.

[size=14pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

RichyBlacK:

@9jaganja,

Since you people believe in juju, witches and all those crap, I was only making you see reason why those children could actually be witches. Aren't you glad I'm trying to reason with you?

Nowhere did I insult you, so stop crying wolf. I dare you to point to where I insulted you.

Do you have a position or are just arguing for the sake of arguing?

My position is simple:

1. ALL juju claims are fraudulent!

2. My Christian beliefs are based on faith.

These two positions are not inconsistent. Your colonial masters that subjugated, Nigeria, Africa and most of the world belonged to the same set - the set of people who are Christians but will destroy any juju opposition in their way. Juju was no match for these Christian soldiers!

There is no historical account anywhere that juju stopped the colonial forces. I submit two cases:

1. In 1897, the mighty Benin Empire was sacked by British forces and[b] the Oba was arrested, jailed and sent on exile.[/b] Despite the large number of human sacrifices carried out by the Oba to secure victory against Her Majesty's forces, the laws of physics had to be obeyed - and the British understood these laws!

2. In 1902, the slave-trading Aro Confederacy, which carried out human sacrifices to their so-called Long Juju was destroyed by British forces. This despicable confederacy applied the fraud of juju to enslave large populations of Igbos, but were subdued by the British who understood the basic mechanics of the laws of the universe, the inviolable laws of nature. Their worthless incantations to unknown, dead spirits was no match for high-velocity projectiles that had only one goal - obeying the laws of physics!

Dude you are making a straw man's argument here. You created a position for your opponents then criticize what you created. How can you say Christ was immortal but juju practitioners can't say whoever they worship was immortal? It's the same thing just that one is widely known while the other isn't. They are either both frauds or both real. Saying the power was given to Jesus by god but don't believe anyone else has the power  is plane bigotry and that is why the Romans saw anyone who didn't believe in what they believe as witch and pagan and they burn them to death, hang them by their neck, torture them to death also.  Now this is my explanation:

You believe in Christ right? Then you must believe he ascended into heaven, You must believe he rose on the third day, you must believe he resurrected the dead and you must believe he walked on water right. All these things are magic whether they come from God or not they are magic and you must have magical powers to do them. If you don't believe christ rose on the third day then you don't believe he's coming back (That's logically true considering the argument). If you don't believe in Christ you don't believe he's coming back but if you believe him, then you must believe he's coming back . Now if he didn't rise on the third day, then he isn't coming back right? Now for him to die and rise on the third day, he must have the power to do so right? Therefore these powers exist if Christianity is true. Now saying it's all a lie while you believe someone can do it is logically inconsistent. If I say everyone walks around naked and then say peter has clothes on, that proves my me wrong because since peter has clothes on, not everybody walks around naked. I hope I made this simple enough for you to understand. You can't say, God has these powers and then say these powers doesn't exist.

Now, you say your being a Christian is based on faith. Faith in who or what?Faith in Jesus? Then you must believe every word he says which includes "I'm coming back". Now for someone in the flesh to come back after thousands of years, he must have enough power to defy the laws of physics that you love talking about. If you have faith in God, then you must believe he split open the red sea for the Israelites to pass and turn river into a stream of blood, fire burning without it burning the grass, He said let there be light and there was light etc,  all these things are enought to prove to you voodoo exists. If you believe in the Bible, then you must believe voodoo exists. 

What if God is not a being? What if God is a realm of voodoo. What if we all come from voodoo and therefore all Children of God? What if Richy Black?  Take note that Voodoo is logically indeterminate because it's either good or evil, it is what you do with it.

@ RichyBlack

your belief in the pope, rome, israel as gods chosen people written in a book written by, u guessed right, people from israel, jonah, tower of babel, adam n eve n all dat fairy tale is as fraudulent as the juju your talking about

if you believe the bible as 100% true then u must believe in juju cos pharoahs magicians turned sticks to snake, or is it only nigerian juju dat is fake but egyptian juju is real?

Mudley313:

@ RichyBlack

your belief in the pope, rome, israel as gods chosen people written in a book written by, u guessed right, people from israel, jonah, tower of babel, adam n eve n all dat fairy tale is as fraudulent as the juju your talking about

if you believe the bible as 100% true then u must believe in juju cos pharoahs magicians turned sticks to snake, or is it only nigerian juju dat is fake but egyptian juju is real?

Yes, only Nigerian juju is fake.

If you belive there is a God, you must also believe there is a Devil.

If you believe there is a Devil, it means there is evil and if there is evil, then there are evil charms (call it juju or any other name, they exist)

I agree some of these charms(juju) are fake but belive me there are original ones

Also there is this fact: If you believe in God to protect you, then charms(juju) might not work against you. (Because u are protected by higher Spiritual Being). I know there is juju, but it will not affect me because I am protected by God.

OAM4J:

If you belive there is a God, you must also believe there is a Devil.

If you believe there is a Devil, it means there is evil and if there is evil, then there are evil charms (call it juju or any other name, they exist)

I agree some of these charms(juju) are fake but belive me there are original ones

Also there is this fact: If you believe in God to protect you, then charms(juju) might not work against you. (Because u are protected by higher Spiritual Being). I know there is juju, but it will not affect me because I am protected by God.

Excellent post!

I have made it clear that I have seen people shot at close range less than a meter several times in two different places (Enugu and Lagos) to believe that juju works for those that use them.

Will I use juju? No, simply because I believe it is negative power (call it evil if you like) and as such will not go near it.

Just like people still join very bad secret cults today, donate their loved ones in exchange for wealth. Would people be doing this if they don't have references to hold on to especially from their friends and colleagues?

Moses and magicians of Pharaoh changed sticks to snakes and one swallowed the other.

It is clear that RichyBlack is avoiding the real issue and instead is creating his own set of questions and answering them rather than answer the questions asked.

Afam:

Excellent post!

I have made it clear that I have seen people shot at close range less than a meter several times in two different places (Enugu and Lagos) to believe that juju works for those that use them.

They might have used blank's and you were decieved into believing that there were real. . . . there are so many people like that all over the place parading themselves as juju men but they are nothing but tricksters who use tricks to decieve the gullible. . . . . .I was watching a documentray where the government in India is now going around telling people that all these miracle workers and magicians they have around are nothing but frauds and tricksters. . . . I believe you know Maitasine, he was all over the place in Kano back in the early 80s tricking people with the same magic you are talking about. . . he use to sell juju portion which he claims repel bullets and knife cuts. . . . He openly displays his tricks for all to see, he and his boys come and take turns in shooting each other and stabing each other with their guns their knives for all to see before selling their products which people rush to buy. . . .when the time came the same bullet he claimed he had the juju to deflect was what brought him down and killed him when the bullet was fired from the gun of the Nigerian military. . . . .

Will I use juju? No, simply because I believe it is negative power (call it evil if you like) and as such will not go near it.

Juju is just what it is. . . . it is a myth. . . . . .

Just like people still join very bad secret cults today, donate their loved ones in exchange for wealth. Would people be doing this if they don't have references to hold on to especially from their friends and colleagues?

Donating an entire village and doing nothing will NEVER make you rich. . . . .Even the so called ritualist in Nigeria today are the politicians and we all know what they do, they STEAL. . . .If they don't steal they will never be rich, they can donate their entire village as long as they do not go out and do something(work legally or illegally) they can never get rich. . . . .Most of these beliefs are cultural. . . Go tell a white man that donating people's body parts to some dirty old man will make you wealthly and he will tell you that you are really crazy. . . . .We are not as rich as the white people are we? The richest people alive today are white people but they do not believe in juju. . . they make their money through natural processes and yet they are far richer than us that believe in the mythical juju. . . . .

Moses and magicians of Pharaoh changed sticks to snakes and one swallowed the other.

This is another myth. . . . Why do we ONLY hear about these stories in the pages of religious books that were written thousands of years ago? If ancient Egyptians can turn their sticks into snakes back in the days what stops them from turning their sticks into snakes today? Why do we ONLY hear that this things happened when men were primitive? The koran talks about the prophet mohammed dividing the moon into two halves. . . the bible talks about stars fighting along side humans in a battle and such ridiculous myths. . . why is ıt that these things ONLY happened when men were primitive? Why are they not happening now? Did jesus not promise that those that believe in him will do greater things than he did in the bible? I have never seen any christian walk on water, turn water into wine or heal an amputee and make his/her amputated limbs grow back. . . .

It is clear that RichyBlack is avoiding the real issue and instead is creating his own set of questions and answering them rather than answer the questions asked.

RichyBlack KNOWS very well that the laws of nature can never be violated but he still wants to hold unto his religious myths which tells him that the laws of nature can be violated

Mad_Max:

Just read the yahoo article.Making children swallow cement, bathing them in acid, setting them on fire? God god god god god. Aren't there laws, law enforcement and a government in place in the area? I'm getting tired of being a Nigerian and defending the indefensible. Arbitrary geographical classification I had no hand in. Hopelessly backward country, disgraceful setta people. And of course Nigerians won't step in to save these kids. That's forever the job of Europeans.

Thank God someone shares my outrage over this shitty abuse of children. and it has been going on for years!
But we Nigerians will rather petitiion against British Airways and Sony than focus on the rot in our own country. Nonsense.

mazaje:

They might have used blank's and you were decieved into believing that there were real. . . . there are so many people like that all over the place parading themselves as juju men but they are nothing but tricksters who use tricks to decieve the gullible. . . . . .I was watching a documentray where the government in India is now going around telling people that all these miracle workers and magicians they have around are nothing but frauds and tricksters. . . . I believe you know Maitasine, he was all over the place in Kano back in the early 80s tricking people with the same magic you are talking about. . . he use to sell juju portion which he claims repel bullets and knife cuts. . . . He openly displays his tricks for all to see, he and his boys come and take turns in shooting each other and stabing each other with their guns their knives for all to see before selling their products which people rush to buy. . . .when the time came the same bullet he claimed he had the juju to deflect was what brought him down and killed him when the bullet was fired from the gun of the Nigerian military. . . . .

I am glad you used might at the beginning of your response because you don't buy and use blanks when you are fighting for your life as in what I witnessed back in the university where people were actually killed while others repelled bullets that were fired at them even at very close range.

mazaje:

RichyBlack KNOWS very well that the laws of nature can never be violated but he still wants to hold unto his religious myths which tells him that the laws of nature can be violated

Exactly! He seems to be at a loss at the contradiction he found himself in.

texazzpete:

Thank God someone shares my outrage over this shitty abuse of children. and it has been going on for years!
But we Nigerians will rather petitiion against British Airways and Sony than focus on the rot in our own country. Nonsense.

Has anyone supported the killing of these children because they are witches? I don't support the killing of any innocent person and by innocent I mean those that have not murdered or looted our treasury like the corrupt politicians.

Has anyone supported the killing of these children because they are witches? I don't support the killing of any innocent person and by innocent I mean those that have not murdered or looted our treasury like the corrupt politicians.

you indirectly contribute to the harm in society when you spread the pernicious myth of juju

SEFAGO:

you indirectly contribute to the harm in society when you spread the pernicious myth of juju

I wasn't asking an idiot like you for your opinion. Now, it is indirect contribution. You are worse than a dirty pig, silly thing.

SEFAGO:

you indirectly contribute to the harm in society when you spread the pernicious myth of juju

To think I wasted all these pages of writing just to express the above thought.   Ah well, the best I can do now is quote it.

I imagine Afam Quixote, in my mind's eye, as an emaciated figure stooped in the saddle on a bony, listless mare, straining to heft the lance yet again as he musters his trusty steed for another hesitant charge towards the windmills he names "The Idiots",  that dot the landcape of his fevered, disoriented mind, decades ago irreversibly indoctrinated with the surreal myths of an alternate universe unbound by the constraints of verifyable science and rational thought.

Jakumo:

To think I wasted all these pages of writing just to express the above thought.   Ah well, the best I can do now is quote it.

I imagine Afam Quixote, in my mind's eye, as an emaciated figure stooped in the saddle on a bony, listless mare, straining to heft the lance yet again as he musters his trusty steed for another hesitant charge towards the windmills he names "The Idiots",  that dot the landcape of his fevered, disoriented mind, decades ago irreversibly indoctrinated with the surreal myths of an alternate universe unbound by the constraints of verifyable science and rational thought.   

Even mad men reserve the right to image things so what you imagine is up to you.

Keep trying to hide your ignorance with comedy.

So, if I assert that ALL juju claims are fraudulent then I can't be a Christian anymore? See me see wahala o!

You people (Afam and 9jaganja ) make me laugh!

So all the White Christians in America are not Christians because they don't believe in juju? This is just laughable!

[size=18pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

9jaganja:

Dude you are making a straw man's argument here. You created a position for your opponents then criticize what you created. How can you say Christ was immortal but juju practitioners can't say whoever they worship was immortal? It's the same thing just that one is widely known while the other isn't. They are either both frauds or both real. Saying the power was given to Jesus by god but don't believe anyone else has the power  is plane bigotry and that is why the Romans saw anyone who didn't believe in what they believe as witch and pagan and they burn them to death, hang them by their neck, torture them to death also.  Now this is my explanation:

You believe in Christ right? Then you must believe he ascended into heaven, You must believe he rose on the third day, you must believe he resurrected the dead and you must believe he walked on water right. All these things are magic whether they come from God or not they are magic and you must have magical powers to do them. If you don't believe christ rose on the third day then you don't believe he's coming back (That's logically true considering the argument). If you don't believe in Christ you don't believe he's coming back but if you believe him, then you must believe he's coming back . Now if he didn't rise on the third day, then he isn't coming back right? Now for him to die and rise on the third day, he must have the power to do so right? Therefore these powers exist if Christianity is true. Now saying it's all a lie while you believe someone can do it is logically inconsistent. If I say everyone walks around naked and then say peter has clothes on, that proves my me wrong because since peter has clothes on, not everybody walks around naked. I hope I made this simple enough for you to understand. You can't say, God has these powers and then say these powers doesn't exist.

Now, you say your being a Christian is based on faith. Faith in who or what?Faith in Jesus? Then you must believe every word he says which includes "I'm coming back". Now for someone in the flesh to come back after thousands of years, he must have enough power to defy the laws of physics that you love talking about. If you have faith in God, then you must believe he split open the red sea for the Israelites to pass and turn river into a stream of blood, fire burning without it burning the grass, He said let there be light and there was light etc,  all these things are enought to prove to you voodoo exists. If you believe in the Bible, then you must believe voodoo exists. 

What if God is not a being? What if God is a realm of voodoo. What if we all come from voodoo and therefore all Children of God? What if Richy Black?  Take note that Voodoo is logically indeterminate because it's either good or evil, it is what you do with it.

@9jaganja,

You're just jumping around without taking a clear position.

One question for you and Afam:

[size=14pt]Is the veracity of the phrase "ALL juju claims are fraudulent" dependent on the faith of RichyBlack?[/size]

Simple question. Thank you.

Keep dodging the question.

It is clear that you are in a belief dilemma here. You should be bold enough to stand for something regardless of the consequences.

As a christian do you believe in the events stated and reproduced here from the bible?

If yes, do they obey the physical laws?

If no, then it means you believe in nothing.

Afam:

Keep dodging the question.

It is clear that you are in a belief dilemma here. You should be bold enough to stand for something regardless of the consequences.

As a christian do you believe in the events stated and reproduced here from the bible?

If yes, do they obey the physical laws?

If no, then it means you believe in nothing.

Your argument is tenuous.

My faith is not the issue here, and don't make it about what I believe in.

There is no question that juju claims are ALL fraudulent.

Even you Afam don't believe that juju is real, if you did you'll be willing to use that real juju to repel the projectile from a Bushmaster . However, by your own admission you won't consider that proposal.

Let's not argue for the sake of argument.

Answer the simple question and stop beating around the bush my friend.

Or, is your pastor standing over your shoulder as you type?

Faith? Hmm!!!

It seems that your faith is currently at war with your nothing can defy the physical laws mantra. Is this correct?

Na you box yourself into a corner so no blame me ooo.

The muzzle velocity of bullets emerging from that AR 15 Bushmaster rifle exceed 3000 feet per second, and with that custom fitted heavy barrel designed to stay cooler and maintain closer shot groupings than would the stock barrel configuration, that is one weapon best not viewed from the wrong end.

With a calibrated Leopold or Bushnell 3x9 power telescopic sight mounted, an AR15 shooter of average competence ought to be able to consistently and rapidly stitch holes in a dinner-plate sized target 200 yards away, with those sleek .223 steel-jacket NATO rounds that tumble, rip and smash so mercilessly when they hit flesh and bone, YET all this ballistics data will give NO pause for thought among till-death believers in African voodoo bullet repulsion talismans.

Ignorance is bliss fer sure.

the things religion has done to the psyche of Africans.

I think in a way that this is a pointless argument. For one, juju definitely doesn't exist. Maybe supernatural things might exist but not the African juju that we are accustomed to hearing about.

2) It is difficult to show a sheep the right way to its pen. You can keep pointing him to the right direction, but he will always try and take the wrong direction and avoid any direction that seems logical consistent. He will always embrace the illogical instead of the logical.

3) There is no proof for juju. Not one proof, nothing compelling, that is the simple truth. Afam is holding on to thin air and running his mouth like the engineof a 20 year old Ijapa volkwagen beetle.

4)  superstition, violence and stupidity all go hand in hand.

@ RichyBlack, I'll have to stop arguing with you. I'm not a Christian neither am I a Muslim neither do I use juju. But for you to believe in Christianity while calling other religion fraud is one big BS. This is my last explanation and if you still don't get it then burn the world.

RichyBlacK:



So, if I assert that ALL juju claims are fraudulent then I can't be a Christian anymore? See me see wahala o!

You people (Afam and 9jaganja ) make me laugh!

So all the White Christians in America are not Christians because they don't believe in juju? This is just laughable!

[size=18pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

RichyBlacK:

@9jaganja,

You're just jumping around without taking a clear position.

One question for you and Afam:

[size=14pt]Is the veracity of the phrase "ALL juju claims are fraudulent" dependent on the faith of RichyBlack?[/size]

Simple question. Thank you.

I don't have to take a position because I'm not for any of those religions. They are both FRAUDS or both REAL.

RichyBlacK:



So, if I assert that ALL juju claims are fraudulent then I can't be a Christian anymore? See me see wahala o!

You people (Afam and 9jaganja ) make me laugh!

So all the White Christians in America are not Christians because they don't believe in juju? This is just laughable!

[size=18pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

That is a straw man's argument. You are a straw man richyBlack (no insult intended). Any reasonable person will see that you prove my points with each post you make. You talk about laws of physics, yet you said Jesus was given power by "god"? Those powers do defy laws of physics and that alone is an evidence juju exists or existed. How can you create a position for me? You said I'm indirectly saying All white Christians in America are not Christians because they don't believe in voodoo? How in the hell does any of my arguments have such form? I said if you believe in the Bible then you must believe there are magical powers because everything from genesis to revelation is all magical. It's all like Harry Potter. Now if you don't believe magic does exists, then you shouldn't believe Jesus did all those things the Bible said he did, then you shouldn't believe all the things the Bible said "god" did etc, Now how in the hell does that say if you don't believe in juju you are not a Christian? I hate arguing with Christians about religion. Your level of bigotry is too high for me to handle. I'm not saying anything about it anymore.

For the record, I don't have a religion. That's why I don't need to support one but be fair in judgment to both. If it's someone paying you to ridicule African traditions, don't worry they have paid many Africans to kills Africans and you are not the first or the worst, just one of them.