9jaganja:

@ RichyBlack, I'll have to stop arguing with you. I'm not a Christian neither am I a Muslim neither do I use juju. But for you to believe in Christianity while calling other religion fraud is one big BS. This is my last explanation and if you still don't get it then burn the world.
I don't have to take a position because I'm not for any of those religions. They are both FRAUDS or both REAL.

That is a straw man's argument. You are a straw man richyBlack (no insult intended). Any reasonable person will see that you prove my points with each post you make. You talk about laws of physics, yet you said Jesus was given power by "god"? Those powers do defy laws of physics and that alone is an evidence juju exists or existed. How can you create a position for me? You said I'm indirectly saying All white Christians in America are not Christians because they don't believe in voodoo? How in the hell does any of my arguments have such form? I said if you believe in the Bible then you must believe there are magical powers because everything from genesis to revelation is all magical. It's all like Harry Potter. Now if you don't believe magic does exists, then you shouldn't believe Jesus did all those things the Bible said he did, then you shouldn't believe all the things the Bible said "god" did etc, Now how in the hell does that say if you don't believe in juju you are not a Christian? I hate arguing with Christians about religion. Your level of bigotry is too high for me to handle. I'm not saying anything about it anymore.

For the record, I don't have a religion. That's why I don't need to support one but be fair in judgment to both. If it's someone paying you to ridicule African traditions, don't worry they have paid many Africans to kills Africans and you are not the first or the worst, just one of them.

RichyBlack is disappointing me on this issue because he has done everything to avoid the serious issues raised.

I am not really interested in the childish and ignorant comments of some of the clowns that have contributed to this thread.

While driving home from work today I asked this same question of juju to 4 other people in the car and all but one claimed that they had witnessed juju especially the bullet issues.

The other person says she believes it exists but does not want to go near it at all.

I told them that there was argument about this on a discussion forum and some educated people claimed juju does not exist because they have not experienced it. The topic quickly shifted to the meaning of education and how worthless our certificates have become. That summarized the contribution of bankers 2 men and 2 women who had no prior information about this discussion.

Goes to show that indeed some of us are just ignorant and yet are quick to label others as being ignorant.

While driving home from work today I asked this same question of juju to 4 other people in the car and all but one claimed that they had witnessed juju especially the bullet issues.

sheeps move with sheeps. No wonder our economy is in ruins with bankers who live in superstition 

Goes to show that indeed some of us are just ignorant and yet are quick to label others as being ignorant.

Applies most especially to you. I am beginning to get angry- I haven't been presented with such stupidity. You are using the personal experience of people as substantial evidence- despite the fickle nature of Nigerians. Like, I only see this style of arguing amongst nigerians. And you keep posting the same statement "people saw this" and "people saw that" and claiming other people are ignorant because of what people you talked to concluded on (for all we know they could be imaginary people you are using to buttress your argument)

Wtf is wrong with Africans?

To  make matters worse these people with the IQs of sheeps are using a[i]rgumentum ad hominem[/i] logic to prove a point. But their frontal attack is based on the assumptions that Richyblack's christian beliefs are absolutely true. And if they are true, then every subset contained in that nugget of belief is true. Since this is not a religious thread, I dont see why people are using Richyblack's religion to argue for the possibility of Juju.

Now it feels like cacophony of ignorant people in a wrestling match. Except the sounds of reason are indistinguishable from the grunts of ignorance. 

I can't tell the religion of some of the posters, because their confused verbiage makes it difficult to screen out their actual argume. Regardless, richyblack's religion cannot prove as adequate proof of religion for those of us who don't have any religion. I am really really sick and tired of stupid people.

SEFAGO:

sheeps move with sheeps. No wonder our economy is in ruins with bankers who live in superstition 

Applies most especially to you. I am beginning to get angry- I haven't been presented with such stupidity. You are using the personal experience of people as substantial evidence- despite the fickle nature of Nigerians. Like, I only see this style of arguing amongst nigerians. And you keep posting the same statement "people saw this" and "people saw that" and claiming other people are ignorant because of what people you talked to concluded on (for all we know they could be imaginary people you are using to buttress your argument)

Wtf is wrong with Africans?

To  make matters worse these people with the IQs of sheeps are using a[i]rgumentum ad hominem[/i] logic to prove a point. [size=18pt]But their frontal attack is based on the assumptions that Richyblack's christian beliefs are absolutely true. And if they are true, then every subset contained in that nugget of belief is true. Since this is not a religious thread, I dont see why people are using Richyblack's religion to argue for the possibility of Juju.[/size]

Now it feels like cacophony of ignorant people in a wrestling match. Except the sounds of reason are indistinguishable from the grunts of ignorance. 
By the way this thread is not abou

@SEFAGO,

This post has crystallized the core essence of the last two pages! I'm highly impressed by the perspicuity of the segment in bold. Thank you!

Moi is a Christian. My girlfriend is a Muslim and I have many Muslim friends from the Middle-East. I know two witches in my neighborhood; lovely ladies - they invite us for barbecues in the summer; they're also lesbians. Most of my colleagues are engineers and scientists. None of us doubts the laws of nature.

* I do not know of any Christian that claims that his/her bible can repel the bullets from an AR 15 Bushmaster.
* Christians do not claim they can turn a corpse to crisp naira notes.
* The Holy Father uses a bullet proof Popemobile - he understands that the bullet from an assassin's rifle will obey the laws of physics.
* I do not know of any Muslim that claims that his/her Qu'ran will stop the massive and violent force of a detonated bomb.
* Muslims do not go around claiming that they walk through wall or disappear and reappear in any location of their choice.
* I've never heard of a Muslim claiming that Allah will stop the projectile from and Abrams tank fired at him/her.
* Even our neighborhood witches book flights on cheaptickets.com to attend their annual Witches Convention - they don't fly on a broom!
* They've made it clear to us that they can do someone no more than any other person can do to them - lovely witches!

There is no contradiction in being a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Wiccan, etc. and acknowledge the order of the universe, an order made possible by the immutable laws of nature.

The only group of people still living in that horrible state of perpetual illusion and limitless euphoric fantasy, are those who give any legitimacy to the fraud called juju, voodoo, winch, otumokpo, talisman, sopono, magun, jazz, etc. By ignoring the facts of nature, they ascribe unimaginable powers to faceless people. They neither seek to confirm the veracity of such vast powers nor do they actually believe them. They mostly do it as a "show of support for the culture". They are abundantly satisfied by the third-hand or fourth-hand stories of myopic minds trapped in an orgy of hallucinations so strong that they refuse to accept the reality of the futility of holding on to primitivity - in this age of reason!

[size=18pt]ALL juju claims remain fraudulent![/size]

Word play is the only tool a foolish man can use to win among foolish men. My last post on this thread until someone reasonable comes on.

I know that juju exists, just as the devil exists. There is good and evil in the world, that's it.

What is boggling is this: How come all the money deposited in the banks are never stolen by witches and wizards? Can anybody explain why?

What is boggling is this: How come all the money deposited in the banks are never stolen by witches and wizards? Can anybody explain why?

Because witches and wizards don't exist. Maybe mind boggling to children.

I know that juju exists, just as the devil exists. There is good and evil in the world, that's it.

How do you know?

9jaganja:

Word play is the only tool a foolish man can use to win among foolish men. My last post on this thread until someone reasonable comes on.

You no get argument to yarn and we no need you to post if no wan post. No be by force. Juju claims are ALL fake! Go and tell your juju to shut down NL for three days.

Jakumo:

The muzzle velocity of bullets emerging from that AR 15 Bushmaster rifle exceed 3000 feet per second, and with that custom fitted heavy barrel designed to stay cooler and maintain closer shot groupings than would the stock barrel configuration, that is one weapon best not viewed from the wrong end.

With a calibrated Leopold or Bushnell 3x9 power telescopic sight mounted, an AR15 shooter of average competence ought to be able to consistently and rapidly stitch holes in a dinner-plate sized target 200 yards away, with those sleek .223 steel-jacket NATO rounds that tumble, rip and smash so mercilessly when they hit flesh and bone, YET all this ballistics data will give NO pause for thought among till-death believers in African voodoo bullet repulsion talismans.

Ignorance is bliss fer sure.

@Jakumo,

You be arms dealer?

There are many simple questions proponents of the longest-running fraud in Nigeria, aka juju, find difficult to answer. One of them goes thus:

What is the limit of juju, i.e. what is it that juju cannot do?

ChinenyeN:

A Related Topic:
Why Is Witchcraft So Prevalent in Africa
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-202985.32.html

@ChinenyeN,

Thanks for posting this. I recall our pretty insightful dialogue on the supernatural; very cool! I enjoyed them. Thanks once again.

The juju belief may be a fraud but really so is every religion that includes christainity,lets not go condeming the native beliefs so fast lets go back in history 400 years ago the christians killed people like fly by simply banding them witches and wizard,so basically i dont think christainity is the best thing to happen.as far as am concerned religion where form for a reason and they have out lived there usefulness,and if you go round the world now you discover that almost all the wars and fights round the world have religous under tone,so please religious fanatics all religions are fraudlent in nature.

Lots of people make wild claims all the time,  . . . . . There is never a shortage of anecdotal stories just a shortage of verifiable evidence. . .All anecdotal evidence and claims are generally discarded because human beings are extremely unreliable. Even eye-witness claims have been shown to be almost useless sometimes. . . .the issue of juju is always hear say. . . . Maitasine is one of the greatest juju man that ever lived in northern Nigeria, he and his boys used to take turns displaying their ability to deflect bullets in front of the public. . . he was very much revered and has a lot of followers. . . when the bullet came from the gun of the Nigerian military he was taken down in no time. . . . All juju claims are frudulent. . . . .

@RichyBlack,

Do you believe that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead after 3 days?

If yes, then is this in line with the physical law?

If no then you are suffering from what I call a religious dilemma where you don't even know what to believe in which is worse.

Seeing people die while others repelled bullets shot at them at close range is enough to prove that juju works for those that use them. I don't need the contribution of ignorant people who have confused mindsets to tell me otherwise.

To people like this it is only what they witness they can agree exist, nothing more.

Like science juju fails sometimes because even native doctors die, people who have relied on juju have been disappointed and in some cases such disappointments lead to death.

Does satan exist? Does God exist?

Can anyone answer the 2 questions above and back your answers with proof so that one can make progress because it seems some of us are not only confused and ignorant but completely clueless on this issue.

For the christians that have avoided the questions bothering on events stated on this thread for fear of contradiction and inconsistency I say shame to you.

Why believe in something you cannot defend.

For those claiming that all the referenced events from the bible are lies because according to them they don't believe in any religion don't confuse issues because that is a topic for another thread. The issue now is to see how objective and honest some of us are concerning the issue of physical laws and spiritual laws.

I know it is common for people to introduce all manner of diversions just to take our eyes off the main issue but on this one keep your diversions to yourself so that definite answers can be provided for questions asked.

@RichyBlack,

You claim to be a christian and that means you believe the bible and its contents.

Now, do you believe all those super natural and spiritual stories and events that were recorded?

If yes, do they defy the physical laws?

If no, what do you really believe?

These are simple questions. Please answer them.

@RichyBlack,

Do you believe that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead after 3 days?

If yes, then is this in line with the physical law?

If no then you are suffering from what I call a religious dilemma where you don't even know what to believe in which is worse.

Seeing people die while others repelled bullets shot at them at close range is enough to prove that juju works for those that use them. I don't need the contribution of ignorant people who have confused mindsets to tell me otherwise.

To people like this it is only what they witness they can agree exist, nothing more.

Like science juju fails sometimes because even native doctors die, people who have relied on juju have been disappointed and in some cases such disappointments lead to death.

Does satan exist? Does God exist?

Can anyone answer the 2 questions above and back your answers with proof so that one can make progress because it seems some of us are not only confused and ignorant but completely clueless on this issue.

For the christians that have avoided the questions bothering on events stated on this thread for fear of contradiction and inconsistency I say shame to you.

Why believe in something you cannot defend.

For those claiming that all the referenced events from the bible are lies because according to them they don't believe in any religion don't confuse issues because that is a topic for another thread. The issue now is to see how objective and honest some of us are concerning the issue of physical laws and spiritual laws.

I know it is common for people to introduce all manner of diversions just to take our eyes off the main issue but on this one keep your diversions to yourself so that definite answers can be provided for questions asked.

@RichyBlack,

You claim to be a christian and that means you believe the bible and its contents.

Now, do you believe all those super natural and spiritual stories and events that were recorded?

If yes, do they defy the physical laws?

If no, what do you really believe?

These are simple questions. Please answer them.

And he is back at it again. Asking people to prove the existence of God and the devil (an evil force)- two things that most philosophers consider impossible to prove.

Does satan exist? Does God exist?

Satan doesn't really exist (as your small mind thinks)- he is part of a persian myth which was laterincorporated into jewish mythology after the occupation of the israel by the persians. later he became a major force in the christian myth as the source of all evil.

Simple logic- If God created the devil as some of the bible says (since the devil was a fallen angel made from God) then God created evil and consequently God is evil. Satan cannot exist i tandem with the Christian God- if we are to contemplate an evil force (pure evil or satan as you call it)- then God and Satan exist mutually exclusively (God did not create satan so he did not create evil), then God is no more omnipotent and therefore he is no more a "god" if he cannot control and effect the cosmos.

I think seun should ban stupid people from nairaland.

SEFAGO:

And he is back at it again. Asking people to prove the existence of God and the devil (an evil force)- two things that most philosophers consider impossible to prove.
Satan doesn't really exist (as your small mind thinks)- he is part of a persian myth which was laterincorporated into jewish mythology after the occupation of the  israel by the persians. later he became a major force in the christian myth as the source of all evil.

Simple logic- If God created the devil as some of the bible says (since the devil was a fallen angel made from God) then God created evil and consequently God is evil. Satan cannot exist i tandem with the Christian God- if we are to contemplate an evil force (pure evil or satan as you call it)- then God and Satan exist mutually exclusively (God did not create satan so he did not create evil), then God is no more omnipotent and therefore he is no more a "god" if he cannot control and effect the cosmos.

I think seun should ban stupid people from nairaland.

You see why I made it clear in the past that you are clueless and extremely stupid?

When you avoid questions asked and instead you set your own questions and proceed to answer them you make a complete fool of yourself.

Is the topic about the existence of God or satan?

Little wonder we have a lot of educated illiterates around.

You talk about logic but don't understand what it entails.

I will educate you since you have consistently fooled yourself here.

Premises

1. God exists
2. Satan exists
3. The major religions in the world agree to these
4. The views of an overwhelming minority are inconsequential on these issues

Conclusions - based on the premises used

1. If God exists then satan exists which means that supernatural powers exist be it good or bad
2. If one believes that God exists and is equally a christian then it automatically means that the person believes in the stories as recorded in the bible
3. This in turn means that such stories defy the physical laws which some people hold supreme
4. You cannot believe in the events that defy physical laws from the bible and still use physical laws as the basis for dismissing juju.


So, learn to address issues raised.

You first resorted to insults which you later admitted and apologized for because you were (and still remain) intolerant of views you do not agree with. This is childish and stupid and people do this when they find it difficult to support a position.

The issue of existence of both God and satan is another matter entirely, do not use that to divert the main issue as there is an obvious clash of interest and belief with those that claim to be christians and their positions with physical laws.

@ Sefago

Simply put it as if you believe the Bible then you believe in unseen and unproven claims. I'm not creating a position for you here though. That means both juju and Christianity are one and the samething. Both dealing with unseen and unproven events. That's what I've been trying to tell RichyBlack but he keeps coming with laws of physics while saying Jesus was given power by "god" who is also unseen and unproven. I'm not advocating for voodoo here but just trying to create a balance in criticism . I'm not saying juju is real or not neither am I saying Christianity is real or not. What I'm saying is they one and same thing. They either both real or both false. RichyBlack also said jesus is immortal but doesn't that defy the laws of physics he's been quoting?

I think Afam's last post clears up the situation. I'm not basing the existence of juju on Christianity. I'm just saying you can't be a Christian and be saying supernatural powers doesn't exist cause if you believe in Christ you must believe all the things your Bible said he said and did which most of them are supernatural,  Once again, I'm not a Christian or Muslim or anything religious, I'm an African.

@ Afam, I am interested in the reality of your bullet repelling Juju. You said you were present when the experiment was performed? so why had we not had any open or public demonstration?. I have been hearing such tales by close friends and relatives since i was young, and i am surprised it had not caught the attention of the manufacturers of guns and ammunition and even bullet proof vests.

My uncle was very active in the Liberian war, he spent years in the jungle fighting charles taylors forces. When i asked him about the bullet repelling Juju (because i know the Charles Taylor boys uses them), he laughed and told me that they killed so many of them with red cloths and so many amulets tied around their heads(the bullet proof objects). He said on one occasion they took the amulet from the wearer and asked their sniper to see if they can penetrate the amulet from 50 meters. He said the sniper needed just one shot and the amulet was in shatters.

Please explain to me why bullet proof juju is never used or considered by our regular army, but only used by untrained militia or hunters.

wirinet:

@ Afam, I am interested in the reality of your bullet repelling Juju. You said you were present when the experiment was performed? so why had we not had any open or public demonstration?. I have been hearing such tales by close friends and relatives since i was young, and i am surprised it had not caught the attention of the manufacturers of guns and ammunition and even bullet proof vests.

My uncle was very active in the Liberian war, he spent years in the jungle fighting charles taylors forces. When i asked him about the bullet repelling Juju (because i know the Charles Taylor boys uses them), he laughed and told me that they killed so many of them with red cloths and so many amulets tied around their heads(the bullet proof objects). He said on one occasion they took the amulet from the wearer and asked their sniper to see if they can penetrate the amulet from 50 meters. He said the sniper needed just one shot and the amulet was in shatters.

Please explain to me why bullet proof juju is never used or considered by our regular army, but only used by untrained militia or hunters.

I am sorry I cannot provide the information you seek because I am not a juju man as only those that use them can answer your specific questions and why they fail sometimes.

mazaje:

Lots of people make wild claims all the time,  . . . . . There is never a shortage of anecdotal stories just a shortage of verifiable evidence. . .All anecdotal evidence and claims are generally discarded because human beings are extremely unreliable. Even eye-witness claims have been shown to be almost useless sometimes. . . .the issue of juju is always hear say. . . . Maitasine is one of the greatest juju man that ever lived in northern Nigeria, he and his boys used to take turns displaying their ability to deflect bullets in front of the public. . . he was very much revered and has a lot of followers. . . when the bullet came from the gun of the Nigerian military he was taken down in no time. . . . All juju claims are frudulent. . . . .

@mazaje,

Thank you!

I am sorry I cannot provide the information you seek because I am not a juju man as only those that use them can answer your specific questions and why they fail sometimes

Well-skilled evasion when your the inconsistencies in your arguments are exposed.

I think Afam's last post clears up the situation. I'm not basing the existence of juju on Christianity. I'm just saying you can't be a Christian and be saying supernatural powers doesn't exist cause if you believe in Christ you must believe all the things your Bible said he said and did which most of them are supernatural,  Once again, I'm not a Christian or Muslim or anything religious, I'm an African.

Well i agree a bit with this. yes, accepting the possibility of a God, suggest the possibility of the supernatural. But no, that doesn't mean men have the ability to control the supernatural. Richyblack could argue- "God is a jealous God and has decided that he wants to control all supernatural events from now on. So juju cannot exist from now on." you see, it is impossible to attack that statement except that it is a supposition ( a supposition just like Afam's imaginary bullets which failed to hit the target  ).

Also, I did not know this thread was a personal attack on Richyblack, if I did, I would carefully have excused myself and moved towards somewhere there is real debate. i thought we were talking about the existence of juju, and not the existence of juju based on Richyblack's faith. I agree it is a tenuous position to hold both views simultaneously- God exists, and the supernatural (maybe juju doesnt), but I still feel that is irrelevant to actual proof that juju exist.

Don't get me wrong- i am proudly Nigerian, and proud of every aspect of our culture with no tribal bounds- from that of the igbo, to the hausas to the ijaws. We are all the same in the eyes of Europeans.  But what I think is that we should be trying to dispel a myth that I feel is harmful to our society. Christianity itself poses some harm- but not as urgent as juju- so let us deal with the horrible ones, b4 we move to the less harmful ones.

Afam:

@RichyBlack,

Do you believe that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead after 3 days?

If yes, then is this in line with the physical law?

If no then you are suffering from what I call a religious dilemma where you don't even know what to believe in which is worse.

According to Christian beliefs, Christ was God on Earth. The physical laws, were laid down by God, an immortal being.  

Seeing people die while others repelled bullets shot at them at close range is enough to prove that juju works for those that use them. I don't need the contribution of ignorant people who have confused mindsets to tell me otherwise.

It is impossible for any juju to disobey Newton's Third Law: "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

To people like this it is only what they witness they can agree exist, nothing more.

Not true. Some of us believe in God, however, we're yet to see Him. How do you explain this.

Like science juju fails sometimes because even native doctors die, people who have relied on juju have been disappointed and in some cases such disappointments lead to death.

Under what conditions does juju fail?

Does satan exist? Does God exist?

God is the being that organized the Big Bang party! Of course He exists, however, we cannot prove His existence, hence we believe by faith.

Satan, according to Christian beliefs, is a fallen angel. The question of existence is difficult because there is no logical proof to show the existence of Satan. So, those that believe in the existence of Satan only do so by the faith.

Can anyone answer the 2 questions above and back your answers with proof so that one can make progress because it seems some of us are not only confused and ignorant but completely clueless on this issue.

No proof. Faith is the only reason such beliefs.

For the christians that have avoided the questions bothering on events stated on this thread for fear of contradiction and inconsistency I say shame to you.

No inconsistency and no need for shame. Belief in the Christian faith is not necessarily in conflict with understanding the laws of the universe. Go read about the life of Sir Isaac Newton for a start.

Why believe in something you cannot defend.

What do you mean by defend? Is Christianity on trial here?

For those claiming that all the referenced events from the bible are lies because according to them they don't believe in any religion don't confuse issues because that is a topic for another thread. The issue now is to see how objective and honest some of us are concerning the issue of physical laws and spiritual laws.

What do you mean by spiritual laws? The ten commandments?

We know what the physical laws are, please explain what the spiritual laws are. Thank you.

I know it is common for people to introduce all manner of diversions just to take our eyes off the main issue but on this one keep your diversions to yourself so that definite answers can be provided for questions asked.

You're the one trying to divert the thread.

*You're a Christian but still want to ask about the basics of Christianity. It's as if your only strategy of showing the juju claims are true is to somehow try to discredit Christianity.
*You do not even have any confidence in juju but seem to be defending it. So, in your case, you're defending something you do not believe in. Why, if I may ask?

@RichyBlack,

You claim to be a christian and that means you believe the bible and its contents.

Now, do you believe all those super natural and spiritual stories and events that were recorded?

If yes, do they defy the physical laws?

If no, what do you really believe?

These are simple questions. Please answer them.

@Afam,

My belief in the Bible is by faith, not by any form of logical reasoning. It is not a contradiction to be a scientist/engineer/mathematician and still have faith in God. Two of the greatest physicists, Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein were men of faith.

The physical laws cannot be disobeyed by any mortal.

[size=18pt]ALL juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

hahah

just like Christ is real Juju is real

like evil and good

God gives power to certain of his followers to heal through HIM

Satan has his own form of power. . . enough said

@RichyBlack,

It seems you are at a cross road here.

I respect your faith and do not intend to question it. There are people that even have faith in stones or even snakes and while I may not agree with them I believe it makes perfect sense to respect them.

Enjoy the rest of the week.

As they say facts don't change. No need to stress the obvious. It is clear that for you logic only makes sense when it suits you.

SEFAGO:

Well-skilled evasion when your the inconsistencies in your arguments are exposed.

Only a fool would claim to know what hs/she does not know. I accept responsibility of things I know and bold enough to admit what I don't know. It is only proper and decent.

SEFAGO:

Also, I did not know this thread was a personal attack on Richyblack, if I did, I would carefully have excused myself and moved towards somewhere there is real debate. i thought we were talking about the existence of juju, and not the existence of juju based on Richyblack's faith. I agree it is a tenuous position to hold both views simultaneously- God exists, and the supernatural (maybe juju doesnt), but I still feel that is irrelevant to actual proof that juju exist.

Bloody liar, this thread is not a personal attack on RichyBlack. RichyBlack made categorical statements that remain contradictory and 180 degrees apart and that is why he is unable to answer questions posed to him.

It seems you are already seeing ghosts as we have resorted to logic and common sense, sorry ehn.

Just go to the religion section to debate the existence of God and satan, this thread is not interested in your useless belief.

wirinet:

@ Afam, I am interested in the reality of your bullet repelling Juju. You said you were present when the experiment was performed? so why had we not had any open or public demonstration?. I have been hearing such tales by close friends and relatives since i was young, and i am surprised it had not caught the attention of the manufacturers of guns and ammunition and even bullet proof vests.

My uncle was very active in the Liberian war, he spent years in the jungle fighting charles taylors forces. When i asked him about the bullet repelling Juju (because i know the Charles Taylor boys uses them), he laughed and told me that they killed so many of them with red cloths and so many amulets tied around their heads(the bullet proof objects). He said on one occasion they took the amulet from the wearer and asked their sniper to see if they can penetrate the amulet from 50 meters. He said the sniper needed just one shot and the amulet was in shatters.  

Please explain to me why bullet proof juju is never used or considered by our regular army, but only used by untrained militia or hunters.

@wirinet,

This colossal fraud called juju has created society-level ignorance among huge populations of people, and led to innocent lives being lost. I'm glad your uncle was honest enough to tell you those stories of events in during the Liberian War. He is a man of truth, because, some others may have tried to keep the fraud going by telling you false stories of people who were shot at but just brushed off the bullets and kept walking .

Even the Niger Delta militants, with all those noise about Egbesu, still had to duck when the JTF fired at them. Why did they use automatic rifles when they could have gone to Egbeus or Ojajagunlabi, requested that all the JTF forces just collapse and die?

The worst part of this fraud is that the promoters never admit to anything that is impossible for the juju to do. Though, you may hear some of them say things like:

*It doesn't work if water touches it
*It doesn't work across the ocean
*It doesn't work on White people
*It doesn't work on people who don't believe in it
etc.

Most of the promoters of the fraud still believe juju can do anything - and they can't even use their useless juju to give Nigeria constant power supply?

platinumnk:

hahah

just like Christ is real Juju is real

like evil and good

God gives power to certain of his followers to heal through HIM

Satan has his own form of power. . . enough said

@platinumnk,

Okay, so are you saying that juju is from the Devil? If it's so, then Devil has zero powers because juju is fake.

It seems you are already seeing ghosts as we have resorted to logic and common sense, sorry ehn.

you mean richyblack and 9jaganga are using commonsense. nothing you ahve said suggest you have any common sense.

Just go to the religion section to debate the existence of God and satan, this thread is not interested in your useless belief.

No use wasting my time on people with little intellect. It is impossible engaging in intellectual debate.

Only a fool would claim to know what hs/she does not know. I accept responsibility of things I know and bold enough to admit what I don't know. It is only proper and decent.

So you saw all this juju and did not make an attempt to learn about what you saw. to me that is just plain stupidity. If I saw a woman turn into a cat, I would make every effort to find out how she did it- no matter the consequences. All ways making up stories to suit your imaginative arguments.

Satan has his own form of power. . . enough said

yeah right, like tooth fairies do

SEFAGO:

Well-skilled evasion when your the inconsistencies in your arguments are exposed.

Well i agree a bit with this. yes, accepting the possibility of a God, suggest the possibility of the supernatural. But no, that doesn't mean men have the ability to control the supernatural. Richyblack could argue- "God is a jealous God and has decided that he wants to control all supernatural events from now on. So juju cannot exist from now on." you see, it is impossible to attack that statement except that it is a supposition ( a supposition just like Afam's imaginary bullets which failed to hit the target  ).

Also, I did not know this thread was a personal attack on Richyblack, if I did, I would carefully have excused myself and moved towards somewhere there is real debate. i thought we were talking about the existence of juju, and not the existence of juju based on Richyblack's faith. I agree it is a tenuous position to hold both views simultaneously- God exists, and the supernatural (maybe juju doesnt), but I still feel that is irrelevant to actual proof that juju exist.

Don't get me wrong- i am proudly Nigerian, and proud of every aspect of our culture with no tribal bounds- from that of the igbo, to the hausas to the ijaws. We are all the same in the eyes of Europeans.  But what I think is that we should be trying to dispel a myth that I feel is harmful to our society. Christianity itself poses some harm- but not as urgent as juju- so let us deal with the horrible ones, b4 we move to the less harmful ones.

SEFAGO,

Excellent post! My assertion that juju claims are fraudulent is silent about the supernatural. The claims by the promoters of the fraud called juju go as far as the control of the supernatural by mortals. To these people, there seems to be nothing that cannot be accomplished with juju - the tell tale signs of a fraud!


Now lets us get back to this fraud called juju and stop worrying about my religious faith. we have the Religion Section for such debates.


* How did this fraud begin?
* What prompted it?
* Why has it lasted for so long?

These are some of the questions I'm trying to answer.

This topic has been over discussed. . .

Afam:

@RichyBlack,

It seems you are at a cross road here.

Nope. I dey kampe!

You're the one in some kind of dilemma because you don't respond to my questions/responses and seem to be exclusively interested your own questions.

I respect your faith and do not intend to question it. There are people that even have faith in stones or even snakes and while I may not agree with them I believe it makes perfect sense to respect them.

I respect all faiths. This talk about juju has nothing to do with any particular faith but with fraud! Juju is just another form of confidence trick, with so many negative repercussions to society.

Enjoy the rest of the week.

As they say facts don't change. No need to stress the obvious. It is clear that for you logic only makes sense when it suits you.

The Christian faith makes no claim that can be categorized as illogical. Faith is not about logic, but about love for God and fellow men and women. I don't know why you're so much interested in my faith.

Even if I become an atheist tomorrow, I will still consider juju to be a fraud.

Even if I convert to Islam tomorrow, I will still assert that ALL juju claims are fraudulent!

My faith has nothing to do with this,

Now, can we get back to A. A. Whitehouses' paper? Did you read the paper?

ChinenyeN:

This topic has been over discussed. . .

@ChinenyeN,

I think were just starting.

Can you help with the following questions:

* How did this fraud begin?
* What prompted it?
* Why has it lasted for so long?

SEFAGO:

Well-skilled evasion when your the inconsistencies in your arguments are exposed.

Well i agree a bit with this. yes, accepting the possibility of a God, suggest the possibility of the supernatural. But no, that doesn't mean men have the ability to control the supernatural. Richyblack could argue- ". God is a jealous God and has decided that he wants to control all supernatural events from now onSo juju cannot exist from now on." you see, it is impossible to attack that statement except that it is a supposition ( a supposition just like Afam's imaginary bullets which failed to hit the target  ).

Also, I did not know this thread was a personal attack on Richyblack, if I did, I would carefully have excused myself and moved towards somewhere there is real debate. i thought we were talking about the existence of juju, and not the existence of juju based on Richyblack's faith. I agree it is a tenuous position to hold both views simultaneously- God exists, and the supernatural (maybe juju doesnt), but I still feel that is irrelevant to actual proof that juju exist.

Don't get me wrong- i am proudly Nigerian, and proud of every aspect of our culture with no tribal bounds- from that of the igbo, to the hausas to the ijaws. We are all the same in the eyes of Europeans.  But what I think is that we should be trying to dispel a myth that I feel is harmful to our society. Christianity itself poses some harm- but not as urgent as juju- so let us deal with the horrible ones, b4 we move to the less harmful ones.

At the bold statements, Juju practitioners can argue the same since both don't have objective credibility of their "god". But the point I'm trying to get RichyBlack to understand is to not classify magic by who performed it. Magic is magic no matter who performed it.  He pinned himself to the corner by saying "jesus was given power by "god" the author and finisher of his faith" while thinking voodoo practitioners can't say the same. This is not an attack on RichyBlack's faith, it's an attack on his bias stand in the argument. People heard of all the things the Bible said jesus and god did, they started worhiping them, people heard of the things voodoo did, they started practicing it therefore the reason people worship god is the same reason voodoo practitioners worship whoever they worship. Both hearing and not confirming it. People flock to a particular church because they heard people say things good about the pastor. People flock to juju priests because they heard of the things they did good or bad. It's all submission without confirmation. I hope you understand my stand well now. I'm not trying to bash Richy's fate, I'm just pointing it out he's biased. I don't think Richy is saying juju is false because it's truly false. I think he's saying juju is false because it suits his position as his god being the only one with power. But I try to make him understand that both juju and other forms of religion is all either real or a bunch of fallacies. If you can believe that pastor Chris actually made a crippled man walk, I think you shouldn't find it hard to believe Afam saying he saw bullets bouncing off flesh. Was it pastor Adeboye that said he drove tens of miles with an empty tank and giving testimony to his congregation about it? I think if you believe that, then you should be gullible enough believe many other fallacies out there.