shadeyinka:


You probably misunderstood this: God breathe into Man and Man became a Living Soul. An explanatory interpretation would have been:

Living Sou/Beingl= Eternal Soul/Being

The difference:
When Animals die, their existence terminates Forever
When Man dies, he goes on living (outside his body)

Why? A man has a spirit and spirits live eternally ( they have a beginning but no end).

In summary, the soul gives you consciousness and the spirit make you eternal.

I assume Gods breath into Man gave man his spirit.

DoctorAlien:
Kay17,

Lucifer was not ejected from Heaven immediately pride was found in him. GOD, ever loving and merciful, cautioned Lucifer severally. Lucifer was jealous of Christ, and argued that Christ deserved a place in the counsels of GOD no more than he himself does. GOD clearly set out the position of His Son, Christ, as GOD. He called a heavenly council and made it clear that all and sundry are to worship and revere Christ just as they worship and revere GOD. But this only stoked the fire of jealousy in Lucifer's heart. He wanted to be worshipped just like GOD. GOD explained to Satan that the path which he was about to take would only bring discord and ultimately lead him to destruction. But all the warnings fell on deaf ears.

Conceit turned into pride, and pride into self-exaltation, and self-exaltation into full-blown rebellion. Lucifer became Satan(adversary), and was cast out, and his doom sealed.

Thus, Satan cannot say he wasn't aware of the consequences of his action.

donnffd:


I agree, maybe i was a bit too emotional, because i ddnt explain my stance well.

Alright, first, i know you dont accept the term Natural evil, but it is a term that has been used for centuries dating back to socrates. It was not like asif atheists just redefined evil to suit their bashing of God.

donnffd:

Then, you talked about artificial evil, while it is allowed to include your definition, you have to be consistent.
I think a differentiation of Natural disasters and accidents is keen, i wont do that because i am sure you know much to well about it, but if I understand you correctly, you are trying to equate Natural disasters to accidents which is not necessarily the case.

donnffd:

God created Nature, now since he is perfect, nature should be perfect, but as we can see, its not, disasters happen, now lets examine it, if there was a flaw in Gods design, then he could easily remodify it to correct the mistakes, the fact that these disasters happen frequently shows he is either incapable of repairing it, or he is purposely allowing it to happen.

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

donnffd:

Now, to your answer which you likened the disasters to a virus in my opinion is not an accurate description of the issue. You are assuming that whoever is causing the disasters(writing the virus) is as knowledgeable as God since this individual can edit and manipulate the workings of God.

I see lot of flaws in that logic, because if the devil could edit the universe now, it means he could have done so even if man did not fall, and that would say alot about the creator.

donnffd:

Now, after mans fall, God cursed man to work before he eats and painful child birth for the woman, but i doubt i read anything about natural disasters, so if that wasnt part of the curse, and he is allowing it to happen, then obviously thats a moral evil dont you think?

So no matter the way you look at it, either God doesnt know how to fix it or he is allowing it to happen.

If the former is the case, then he is not as powerful as theists make him sound and if he allows it to continue then its either he is sadistic and evil or just plainly doesnt care about us either ways why call him God?

akintom:




Now, another word for soul is mind. What is mind?
Mind is what the brain does. It does mean that the human mind can be objectively related with (eg when a man can remember past events accurately, it's said that the man has normal/good memory).

Again, the source of life is oxygen. From the stage of fertilization, human utilizes oxygen. If for any reason that oxygen doesn't get to human or human can't utilize oxygen, death will occur within few minutes.

The word spirit is never existential component of human, personally i will say, it's a synonym for the word knowledge. Medical knowledge makes you a doctor, so also religious knowledge (knowledge based on assumptions) makes you spiritual (immaterial existence).

Therefore, the trichotomy theory of human beings is a religious fabrication that can't be rationally established.

shadeyinka:




A question please!
How can an Omnipotent, Omniscient God create Beings with Free will and also prevent them from making some independent choices?

shadeyinka:


It is good that we are now on the same page.



My definition of Artificial Evil to a large extent excludes harm caused by human errors whether intentional or not. I wouldn't strictly call accident as a result of drunk driver Artificial Evil.

I have limited my term "Artificial evil" mainly to faults, weakness of mechanical, electrical, chemical devices and machineries resulting in harm.

Natural disasters and Artificial Evil are very similar I think:

Hot molten magma is contained under pressure under the earth crust. Over time, a tiny fissure occurred on the earth crust which produced a weakness in the containment. One day, volcanic eruption occurred through the crack and several villages were submerged.

Now compare with:

Butane gas contained under pressure inside a gas cylinder in a kitchen. Over time, a tiny fissure occurred in the hose and gas piping which produced a weakness in the containment. One day, in the course of cooking, gas escaped through the crack and the explosion wiped out a families life investment.





God created a perfect world and handed it over to Adam. Adam was sovereign over the earth and was supposed to bend the earth to his will. However, he disobeys the Manufacturers instruction and thus lost his authority and at the same time lost his control over nature. It is not God s fault, it was Adams fault.

We live in a world guided by several kinds of laws:
Physical Laws, Natural Laws, Spiritual Laws, Moral Laws etc

Violation or otherwise of any of these laws have consequences. Adam violated the law that protested his environment and the result is what we see. ..a trojan running the code of death

.


Now, God is going to reset the world but only after the Harvest.








The disaster is not the virus. Deliberately, I used the word Trojan. The Trojan was not aimed at the earth; it was aimed at Adam himself. Adam lost the Power and his sovereignty over the earth to Tend (control and dominate) the Earth. Death (the law of diminishing returns) came into effect.

So, you see its not that Satan is directly responsible for calamities but the "Law of Death", which I referred to as the malicious code is running. All Satan did was causing Adam to activate the law of death over himself and the earth.




The Bible is not a science textbook. It is a chronicle of experiences of a people relating with God and effects of obedience and disobedience so that posterity will learn. So, not everything except that necessary for edification, rebuke, correction and instruction will be put in it

I have given some bible proves that the earth will be restored but only after the harvest.

shadeyinka:


You have looked at man strictly from the hardware perspective. Theists have looked at mans existence from bother the hardware and software perspective.

The mind is the center of mans intellect, will and emotion and the Hardware responsible is the Brain. However, the Brain is run by a software referee to as the Soul. As Theists, we believe that the soul lives on after death because it can function in the mans spirit body after his death.

Can you not see that this is practically hose who experience NDE are reporting.

The first natural stance of Atheists is show us the Soul? No one has ever seen the soul therefore, it doesn't exist!

However, if you use the same logic for a computer, you will see that you are wrong. If you dissect the HDD or RAM of a computer, you will not find any operating system or application program inside. A computer code is invisible and intangible just like the soul

KingEtienneSky:
WHERE did Lucifer commit his own sin?

Weah96:


Look at the much bigger picture. If the designer is omniscient and OMNIPOTENT, is it possible for its products to make choices that were not foreseen?

donnffd:


So how do you explain the same natural events we term as "natural disasters" happening in other places of the universe where obviously no human inhabitants are?

From your write up, God gave man the power to control the earth, and man in his foolish lost it, what about the rest of the universe?, did God give man the power for that too, and if he did, why is man limited to only the earth?

akintom:


The conclusion is still that the trichotomy theory of existential component of man, is a religious fabrication to suit the very purpose of using immaterial assumptions as the ONLY basis of explaining and defending religious claims.

akintom:

On the following grounds:

*That you can't physically present the God that wrote the code.

akintom:

*That you can't physically show me soul as it's different from mind.

akintom:

*that you can't clearly differentiate btw "body", "soul", "mind", "spirit body" and "spirit" empirically.

akintom:

There's no basis for a useful debate then. The more that you can't 100% rely on your Bible as references (pls remember your "I DON'T KNOW" ) submission.

akintom:

You can engage me on other topics you know you can 100% rely on Bible as references, i will gladly be your guest.

shadeyinka:



There are always solar flares on the sun and some planets have recorded storms etc. Since it affects no human, it cannot be called evil.

Replication of events occurring in uncontrolled barren planets and stars on the earth where man is supposed to rule is the evil.

In his unfallen state, I believe that if man could travel to other planets, he would control it. Like making Mars to grow crops...(this is just a speculation o)

Mar 4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

Man should have being like Jesus if not for his fall

shadeyinka:


In Heaven or Paradise, free will will still exist however experience would have taught every one how to use the free will or volition God gave to men and angels.

Its like having the experience of being burnt by fire or being shocked with electricity; you develop a relation not of fear but of respect for what misuse of them can do to you.

KingEtienneSky:
What exactly does this explain?

donnffd:


Still havent answered my question though.

Before mans fall, did God give man the power of the earth or the universe?, and if he did the universe, why is man so limited to the earth?

Since what we term Natural disasters on earth is a normal occurence in the universe, why does it happen where no human inhabitants are if satan is the one causing the destruction?

shadeyinka:

I don't get this

I don't agree with you on this. The theist position had always been this well before Atheism rose up to challenge the theistic position with the doctrine of "matter is everything". You may have a point iff this religious position is an afterthought by Theists.

The fact that it makes sense should give atheists some little concern


God is not a material being hence not subject to electromagnetic forces. He can't be brought!



scientifically, Human is material, having body and mind (psychosomatic). Empirically, both the body and mind can be assessed.
That's; muscles weakness and memory loss can be diagnosed.

Just as the computer code inside a CPU or HDD cannot be seen or shown



Empirically impossible! They do not fall into the class of matter to be measured. Just like some other things like our emotions of Love, Anger, Hurt which are real but empirically impossible to quantify



I can only speak within the limit of what is revealed and my understanding of such. should I ask Darwin for the definition of DNA within the limit of his book?




according to you, if nothing about religion can be empirically proved, on what basis do theist then challenge the conclusion of the atheists then?

If nothing exist, there is nothing to taste.

No problem!

Faith, Religion, Theism, Christianity are all based on Subjective Experiences. These are NOT provable empercally so, the way to know the taste of the pudding is tasting it.

shadeyinka:



I think I have may be I'm not too explicit.
1. Man is limited on earth because of the combination of limitations in ability, knowledge and control.
The rest will be speculations of what Adam may or not be able to do outside the earth.
2. I have said that Satan is not the direct cause of natural evil. It is the activated law of sin and death. Man lost control and the earth became WILD!
3. On other planets, they are not under control therefore, they could run wild until man decides to tame it.

People blame Satan for all mishaps forgetting that Satan can only suggest. When you obey, certain laws take effect. It may be too late to reverse the laws of "entropy"

donnffd:


So how do you explain the same natural events we term as "natural disasters" happening in other places of the universe where obviously no human inhabitants are?

From your write up, God gave man the power to control the earth, and man in his foolish lost it, what about the rest of the universe?, did God give man the power for that too, and if he did, why is man limited to only the earth?

akintom:



The conclusion is still that the trichotomy theory of existential component of man, is a religious fabrication to suit the very purpose of using immaterial assumptions as the ONLY basis of explaining and defending religious claims.

On the following grounds:

*That you can't physically present the God that wrote the code.

*That you can't physically show me soul as it's different from mind.

*that you can't clearly differentiate btw "body", "soul", "mind", "spirit body" and "spirit" empirically.

There's no basis for a useful debate then. The more that you can't 100% rely on your Bible as references (pls remember your "I DON'T KNOW" ) submission.


You can engage me on other topics you know you can 100% rely on Bible as references, i will gladly be your guest.

donnffd:


Ok cool, i agree your theology holds up but lets agree to disagree on the foundation.

shadeyinka:



You have placed your premise down in such a way as to conclude that if there is no iota of Evil in God and God "created evil" then its either God is Evil or He doesn't exist!

But, not so fast my friend!

First, EVIL is NOT a thing.

If Evil is not a thing, then is is not a direct creation. Evil must have been a bi-product of creation!

One could argue that the creator is also responsible for the bi-product His creation caused: like man is responsible for the carbon polutulion vehicles cause.

So before explaining the above, we need to define the term evil!

Dictionary Defn:
adjective
Intending to harm; malevolent.
Morally corrupt., Unpleasant.
synonyms
nefarious, malicious, malevolent
antonyms
good
noun (plural evils)


However, Gods definition of Evil is more Generic:
Evil is going against the WILL of God.

The above definition covers both the dictionary definition and more.

For example "consensual fornication" is evil eben though the dictionary definition does not imply so.

Now that we have set the proper ground of understanding, we answer the question "isn't God responsible howbeit indirectly for evil"?

1. Evil is an inevitable consequence of Free will.
2. Creatures of free will commit evil NOT God
3. For Evil not to Exist, creatures of Free will must not exist.
4. It was Gods desire to have both creatures with
I. No free will e.g. Planets, Atoms, Gravity etc AND
ii. Creatures with Free will e.g. Angels, Man

Objective:
Ultimately to select among the Free Willed Creatures those who will Love and Obey Him by their Free Will.

Only such are useful to God!

Conclusion:
Evil is a biproduct of the creation of free will.
Agents of Free will cause Evil and NOT God

I rest my case!