We have been told that before the antichrist emerges on the world scene the rapture would take place. Is this really correct in the face of Biblical accounts in Daniel, the Gospels, Paul's letters and the Revelation?

We must not be wrong on this matter because of associated serious implication: If indeed antichrist will deal with God's people and we are not ready to meet him because we've been told we won't meet him then many may fall away and take his 666 mark to their eternal doom.

Please, let's consider this.

The Great Tribulation - Resolving the Confusion
a. Regarding ‘tribulation’: The word appears in the KJV 25 times: 4 times in the OT (Deuteronomy, Judges and twice in 1 Samuel). 21 times in the NT. The 4 times in the OT all referred to Israel. The NT books where found are: The Gospels: Matthew (3), Mark (1), John (1). Acts (1), Romans (4); 2Corinthians (2), Ephesians (1), 1Thessalonians (1), 2Thessalonians (2) and Revelations (5). Of the 21 times in the NT: it is associated with believers 19 times and only twice in reference to unbelievers / backsliders
Two adjectives are associated with the word:
b. ‘great’ 2 times
i. Revelation 2:22: Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
ii. Revelation 7:14: And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
c. ‘much’ once
i. Acts 14:22: Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
The ‘tribulation’ verses
2. Matthew 13:21 - Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
3. Matthew 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
4. Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
5. John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
6. Acts 14:22 - Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
7. Romans 5:3 - And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
8. Romans 8:35 - Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?
9. Romans 12:12 - Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
10. 2 Corinthians 1:4 - Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
11. 2 Corinthians 7:4 - Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
12. Ephesians 3:13 - Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
13. 1 Thessalonians 3:4 - For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
14. 2 Thessalonians 1:4 - So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
15. 2 Thessalonians 1:6 - Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
16. Revelation 1:9 - I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
17. Revelation 2:9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
18. Revelation 2:10 - Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
19. Revelation 2:22 - Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. (A second verse where tribulation was associated with unbelievers / backsliders.)
20. Revelation 7:14 - And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Other tribulation-related scriptures
21. Isaiah 43:2 says ..When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
22. Matthew 10:22 - And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (Also Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13)
23. Mark 4:17 - And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
24. 2 Thessalonians 1:4 - So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
25. 2 Timothy 2:3 - Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
26. 2 Timothy 2:10 - Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
27. 2 Timothy 3:11 - Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
28. 2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
29. 2 Timothy 4:5 - But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
30. Hebrews 6:15 - And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
31. Hebrews 10:32 - But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
32. Hebrews 11:27 - By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
33. Hebrews 12:2 - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
34. Hebrews 12:3 - For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds
35. James 1:12 - Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
36. James 5:11 - Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
37. 1 Peter 2:19 - For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
Faith and Patience enjoined
38. 2 Thessalonians 1:4 - So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
39. Luke 21:19 - In your patience possess ye your souls.
40. Romans 5:3 - And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
41. Romans 5:4 - And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
42. Romans 8:25 - But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
43. Romans 15:4 - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
44. 2 Corinthians 6:4 - But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
45. Colossians 1:11 - Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
46. Hebrews 6:12 - That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
47. Hebrews 10:36 - For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
48. Hebrews 12:1 - Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
49. James 1:3-4 - Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
50. James 5:7 - Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
51. James 5:10 - Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
52. 2 Peter 1:6 - And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
53. Revelation 1:9 - I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
54. Revelation 2:2-3 - I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
55. Revelation 2:19 - I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
56. Revelation 3:10 - Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
57. Revelation 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
58. Revelation 14:12 - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
59. John 16:1-5 - 1 "All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. 2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. 4 I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you……
60. Rom 8:36-39 - 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
61. 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
62. 1 Peter 4:12-13 - 12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
Heaven’s Hall of Fame – Hebrews 11:33-40
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Regarding ‘wrath’
63. The word appears in the KJV 200 times:
a. 152 times in the OT
b. 48 times in the NT.
64. It referred to:
a. Wrath of God e.g. against individuals, group, Israel and other nations
b. Wrath of man e.g. of Portifar, of Aheuseurus, etc
c. Wrath of the devil (only 1 time in the entire Bible – Revelation 12:12)
65. Our main concern is ‘wrath’ in the NT. The word appears in the 48 times in the NT.
66. It referred to:
a. Wrath of God – 31 or 32 times against unbelievers
b. Wrath of man – 15 times
c. Wrath of the devil – only 1 or 2 times against the inhabitants of the world
Believers and the wrath of God
67. John 3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned:
68. John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
69. Romans 5:9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
70. 1 Thessalonians 1:10 - And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which (who) delivered us from the wrath (of God = tribulation for those who ‘believeth not’)to come.
71. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Unbelievers and the wrath of God
72. Matthew 3:7 - But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
73. Luke 3:7 - Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
74. John 3:18 - ….. he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
75. John 3:36 - …… he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
76. Romans 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
77. Romans 2:5 - But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
78. Romans 2:8 - But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
79. Romans 9:22 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
80. Ephesians 2:3 - Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
81. Ephesians 5:6 - Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
82. Colossians 3:6 - For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
83. 1 Thessalonians 2:16 - Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
84. Revelation 6:16-17 - And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
85. Revelation 11:18 - And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
86. Revelation 14:8, 10 - And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. …… The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
87. Revelation 14:19 - And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
88. Revelation 15:1 - And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
89. Revelation 15:7 - And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
90. Revelation 16:1 - And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
91. Revelation 16:19 - And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
92. Revelation 18:3 - For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
93. Revelation 19:15 - And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Consider that Jesus stated in Matthew chapter 24:29-31 that He would send His angels to gather His elects all over the world 'immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days'.

Also in 2Thessalonians chapter 2: 1-3, Paul says this gathering (rapture) won't take place until 2 things happen first: falling away of people and the emergence of antichrist.

omojeesu:
Consider that Jesus stated in Matthew chapter 24:29-31 that He would send His angels to gather His elects all over the world 'immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days'.

Also in 2Thessalonians chapter 2: 1-3, Paul says this gathering (rapture) won't take place until 2 things happen first: falling away of people and the emergence of antichrist.

The former reference speaks of the gathering unto Him when He comes after the Great Tribulation for the elects (Israel). Note that that coming will be with the saints.


When you consider 2Thess 1 you will realise that the setting is that of coming for the battle of Armageddon and this will be followed immediately by the Millenial reign, where then will the marriage supper of the Lamb, Bema seat etc take place?

Compare with 1 Thess 4 where it says we will meet Him in the air. That event in 1 Thess 4 will not be a coming with the saints but for the saints. The GT ends with the battle of Armagedon and the millenial starts off immediately afterwards. Then, when will the saints meet the Lord in the air?



I believe the Bible presents both scenarios because there will be some saints, other than Israel, that will miss the rapture but will be ready for His Second coming, and the Bible must still be relevant to them then.

omojeesu:
We have been told that before the antichrist emerges on the world scene the rapture would take place. Is this really correct in the face of Biblical accounts in Daniel, the Gospels, Paul's letters and the Revelation?

We must not be wrong on this matter because of associated serious implication: If indeed antichrist will deal with God's people and we are not ready to meet him because we've been told we won't meet him then many may fall away and take his 666 mark to their eternal doom.

Please, let's consider this.
Thank you.

The Rapture will take place and those who are ready (pure/spotless) will go. 1Thess 4:15.

There will be leftbehinds Christians and many pagans who will come to realise the truth. However, the false prophet will deceive many with his false miracles. And they will believe he's from God and take the mark. The two witnesses will also be sent to the world. In the great Tribulation, it is no more salvation by Grace but by blood. By resistance till the end. The great Tribulation(7 yrs) will be at its peak in the last 3 and half years. God will seal 144,000 Isrealites who will resist till the end.
God will cause a great and noisy sore upon the flesh of those that received the mark. And history's most devastating far reaching earthquake since mankind was created will happen.

In the end of 7 years, Russia, Libya, Turkey will come with an overwhelming great army against Israel to totally destroy it. Thats when their Messiah Jesus will come from Heaven with the raptured saints, and destroy the armies with the Sword in his mouth. And the Antichrist and false prophet will be taken and cast alive in the Lake of fire. Revelations 19:11-21

Satan that deceived them will be bound and sealed for a thousand years in prison so that he can't deceive anymore. And The Lord will establish and rule for a thousand years. The saints will rule the world with a rod of iron. Revelation 2:26-28.

After the thousand years are over, Satan will be loosed from prison to deceive the humans (not the saints). And gather a great army against Jesus and his saints. Fire will devour them from Heaven. And the old serpent will be taken and finally cast to the Lake of fire where the Antichrist and false prophet are. After this, the final judgement of sinners will begin. All damned souls will stand before God and be judged, the punishment according to their works on earth. And all be cast in the Lake of Fire.

This earth and Heaven will disappear forever. And there will be a new Heaven and New Earth where the saints will dwell forever. And God and the Lamb will be their Light. Revelations 21:1-23

'And there shall in no wise enter into anything that defileth nor works abomination, or a maketh a lie: but they whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Rev 21:27.

THE WORD OF GOD AND TRUTH.

666 is not what to be inscribe on the forehead, its the sum total of the Chief-Antichrist name which is the "papacy" . The teaching that there will be a time when people will receive a mark on their head and their hand is a false teaching, just to mislead people. What will actually happen is that the papacy will team up with a world power which is America to enforce national sunday law where everybody will be forced to Acknowledge Sun-Day. Those who obey the power means they believe in that power (which means they receive the mark "in" their forehead , not on because the bible state "in" not "on" (KJV and the likes not this modern bible versions translated to suit their devilish purpose, and keep it (meaning receive it "in" their hand. But, there will still be few faithful ones who will still keep the true sabbath (Saturday).... When you study Daniel and Revelation Bible prophecy, you will really understand the deeper meaning of what I mean .

The church won't be part of tribulation . But the saints who would be left behind at the rapture will go through tribulation . The church will be taken out of the way before the tribulation .

2 Thessalonians 2:6-9 (AMP)
And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time.
For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only untilhe who restrains is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one (the antichrist) will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming.
The coming [of the lawless one, the antichrist] is through the activity and working of Satan and will be attended by great power and with all sorts of [pretended] miracles and signs and delusive marvels—[all of them] lying wonders—

Paul made it clear that to be "CAUGHT UP" at the rapture is the next thing now

MTHBOSS:

Those who obey the power means they believe in that power (which means they receive the mark "in" their forehead , not on because the bible state "in" not "on" (KJV and the likes not this modern bible versions translated to suit their devilish purpose, and keep it (meaning receive it "in" their hand.

Let's see if the highlighted will stand: (if you wish to refute, bring forward your proofs too.)

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-16.htm shows that the word used there is epi Now see:

1909. epi ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
above, after, against, among, as long as

For contextual usage see:

1909. epi ►
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1909: ἐπί

ἐπί (before a rough breathing ἐφ' (occasionally in manuscripts ἐπ'; see e. g. Psalm 145:3 ()), and also in some instances before a smooth breathing (as ἐφ' ἐλπίδι, Acts 2:26 L; Romans 8:20-21Tdf.); see ἀφειδον. It neglects elision before proper names beginning with a vowel (except Αἴγυπτον Acts 7:10, 18) and (at least in Tdf.s text) before some other words, see the Proleg., p. 94f; cf. Winers Grammar, § 5, 1 a.; Buttmann, p. 10), a preposition (from the Sanskrit local prefix ἀρι; Curtius, § 335), joined to the genitive, the dative, and the accusative; its primary signification is upon (Latinsuper; (cf. Winer's Grammar, 374 (350) note)).
A. with the genitive (cf. Winers Grammar, § 47, g.; Buttmann, 336 (289));

I. of place; and

1. of the place on which;

a. [size=18pt]upon the surface of[/size] (Latinin orsuper with the abl., German auf with the dative); after verbs of a biding, remaining, standing, going, coming, etc.; of doing anything: ἐπί κλίνης, Matthew 9:2; Luke 17:34; ἐπί τοῦ δώματος, Matthew 24:17; Luke 17:31; ἐπ' ἐρημίας (cf. on a desert), Mark 8:4; ἐπί τῶν νεφελῶν, Matthew 24:30; Matthew 26:64; ἐπί (τῆς) γῆς, Matthew 6:10; Matthew 9:6; Matthew 23:9; Matthew 28:18; Luke 21:25; Acts 2:19, and very often; ἐπί τῆς θαλάσσης, on (the surface of) the sea, Matthew 14:25 R G; 26 L T Tr WH; Mark 6:48 (49); Revelation 5:13, and, according to the interpretations of many, John 6:19; but cf. Baumg.-Crusius at the passage (per contra, cf. Lücke at the passage; Meyer on Matthew, the passage cited) (Job 9:8; βαδίζειν ἐφ' ὕδατος, Lcian. philops. 13; ἐπί τοῦ πελαγους διαθεοντες, v. h. 2, 4; (Artemidorus Daldianus, oneir. 3, 16); on a different sense of the phrase ἐπί γῆς θαλάσσης see 2 a. below (Winer's Grammar, 374 (351))); ποιεῖν σημεῖα ἐπί τῶν ἀσθενούντων, to be seen upon the bodies of men, externally, (on the sick (cf. Winer's Grammar, 375 (351))), John 6:2; ἐκάθισα and κάθημαι (καθέζομαι) ἐπί, Matthew 19:28; Matthew 23:2; Matthew 24:3; Matthew 25:31; Matthew 27:19; John 19:13; Acts 20:9; Revelation 9:17, etc.; ἔστην, ἕστηκα ἐπί, Luke 6:17; Acts 21:40; Revelation 10:5, 8; where parts of the body are spoken of: ἐπί χειρῶν, Matthew 4:6; Luke 4:11; ἐπί τῆς κεφαλῆς, John 20:7; 1 Corinthians 11:10; Revelation 10:1 R G (others, accusative); ; σινδόνα ἐπί γυμνοῦ, Mark 14:51; ἐπί τοῦ μετώπου (or μετώπων), Revelation 7:3; Revelation 9:4; Revelation 13:16 (Rec., others, accusative); Revelation 14:9.

http://biblehub.com/thayers/1909.htm

But, there will still be few faithful ones who will still keep the true sabbath (Saturday).... When you study Daniel and Revelation Bible prophecy, you will really understand the deeper meaning of what I mean .

[/quote] If it was all about the sabbath, trust the Bible to say so! Afterall, where sacrifices were involved (Daniel 9:27) it was mentioned!
Note that it spoke there of daily sacrifices not sabbath!

Thank you Scholar8200
You have just rehearsed the obvious. I had known this for years since I gave my life to Christ in the 1980s. That was what we were taught and we believed it, hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, this pre-tribulation rapture teaching has misled almost the entire Church of Jesus Christ. I discovered this sometimes in the 1990s when for the first time I decided to be like the Berean Christian to do a personal study by the help of the Helper and Teacher, the Holy Spirit alone.
Now let us take a look at Matthew chapter 24:
Of the 3 questions that the disciples asked Jesus, the one directly regarding the rapture was the one most important to the final stage of a believer's salvation, dead and alive at the time it would occur and it is linked to the question, 'What will be the sign of your coming?'. The logical question to ask, therefore, is, Coming for WHO and WHAT apart from what the nature of the 'sign' would be.
LET ME ATTEMPT A PARAPHRASE OF WHAT JESUS SAID IN MATTHEW 24:4-31
‘‘Be careful. Don’t let anyone deceive you regarding my coming. Before my coming, many will claim to be ‘Christ’ up till when I finally arrive. They are impostors and opposers and will actually succeed in deceiving many (majority) of believers (because believers are primarily the target of Satan’s deception. It has always been so from the garden and will continue throughout all generations of believers till the end). Also, before my coming back to take you with me to heaven, there will be wars, ecological disasters such as famines, earthquakes and the likes, epidemics of diseases and such. These events are just merely like the first pains of a woman in labour. Then sometime later while these things are going on the whole world would turn against you and severely persecute you and kill you. Many of you will backslide and betray one another on account of this persecution. Meanwhile, my impostors and opposers will continue with their deceiving and continue to deceive the majority. Sin and wickedness will be rampant and the love of many, especially believers towards God and the brethren will turn cold. These sufferings by you will demand much courage and endurance not to lose your faith, but to stand and keep standing to the end because only those who endure the sufferings will finally be saved. I tell you the truth, it is going to take endurance to survive to the end. Before the end, the gospel of the Kingdom would have been preached to all the nations as a witness. No nation and people would say they have not heard because it would be apparent to them through their persecution of you that it is because of my gospel which you represent that they are persecuting you.
What will signal these persecutions is the setting up of the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke about (you should understand!). So when you see the antichrist, the son of Satan and man of sin set up his image in the new temple in Jerusalem, then flee with haste at once. Don’t let anything or any thought hinder you. I pity pregnant women and nursing mothers because they can’t move out fast enough. Why the escape? It is because by the erection of this image Satan through the antichrist declares that he is God and demands the worship of all. You my disciples and religious Jews will refuse and therefore be the object of the most severe and great tribulation in the history of mankind and there would be none like it ever again. In fact the situation will be so terrible that if allowed to go on for too long no one single human being would be saved, but for my elects sake, (both Jews and Christians, Israel and my Church) the time will be cut short. Then because of the terrible sufferings religious Jews will be desperately desirous to see their Messiah return and you will also eagerly seek my return to deliver you by my appearing and your rapture. In your seeking me impostor and opposers will still want to exploit you and deceive you that I have returned and that I am in some secret location on the planet. They will show great wonders and signs and miracles to derail you. Don’t believe them because my coming will be like lightning in space not on land anywhere. Clearly, vultures gather will dead bodies of animals are found. So for you my disciples my appearing in the sky will be the focal point of your gathering.
My appearing will be in this manner: It will mark the end of the great tribulation that I talked about earlier. My coming is what will cut it short. My appearing will be signalled by the occurrence of great cosmic disturbances. The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. I, the Son of man, will appear in heaven above and then shall all the tribes of the earth lament and mourn and they will see me all over the world simultaneously in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (They will lament because they now would realise they have wronged me and have been wrong about me and the gospel and about my disciples and now I have come as the Bible and my disciples have said and because they know that I have come to avenge my disciples who have grievously suffered the great tribulation unleashed by them on my people under the command of antichrist because they refused his mark)
On my arrival I will send my angels to make a great sound of a trumpet, my deserving ones and elect will hear and they will be gathered together by my angels from all over the world to meet me in the air’’
After the rapture the wrath of God is poured on the world. The Holy Spirit is careful with the use of words. Throughout the Bible the word tribulation is almost always used with regards to and association with God’s people, Jews and Christians. While, especially in the New Testament, our major point of reference the word ‘wrath’ is generally used in association with unbelievers and backsliders.
Thank you.

Scholar8200:
The former reference speaks of the gathering unto Him when He comes after the Great Tribulation for the elects (Israel). Note that that coming will be with the saints.


When you consider 2Thess 1 you will realise that the setting is that of coming for the battle of Armageddon and this will be followed immediately by the Millenial reign, where then will the marriage supper of the Lamb, Bema seat etc take place?

Compare with 1 Thess 4 where it says we will meet Him in the air. That event in 1 Thess 4 will not be a coming with the saints but for the saints. The GT ends with the battle of Armagedon and the millenial starts off immediately afterwards. Then, when will the saints meet the Lord in the air?



I believe the Bible presents both scenarios because there will be some saints, other than Israel, that will miss the rapture but will be ready for His Second coming, and the Bible must still be relevant to them then.

Thank you Scholar8200
You have just rehearsed the obvious. I had known this for years since I gave my life to Christ in the 1980s. That was what we were taught and we believed it, hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, this pre-tribulation rapture teaching has misled almost the entire Church of Jesus Christ. I discovered this sometimes in the 1990s when for the first time I decided to be like the Berean Christian to do a personal study by the help of the Helper and Teacher, the Holy Spirit alone.
Now let us take a look at Matthew chapter 24:
Of the 3 questions that the disciples asked Jesus, the one directly regarding the rapture was the one most important to the final stage of a believer's salvation, dead and alive at the time it would occur and it is linked to the question, 'What will be the sign of your coming?'. The logical question to ask, therefore, is, Coming for WHO and WHAT apart from what the nature of the 'sign' would be.
LET ME ATTEMPT A PARAPHRASE OF WHAT JESUS SAID IN MATTHEW 24:4-31
‘‘Be careful. Don’t let anyone deceive you regarding my coming. Before my coming, many will claim to be ‘Christ’ up till when I finally arrive. They are impostors and opposers and will actually succeed in deceiving many (majority) of believers (because believers are primarily the target of Satan’s deception. It has always been so from the garden and will continue throughout all generations of believers till the end). Also, before my coming back to take you with me to heaven, there will be wars, ecological disasters such as famines, earthquakes and the likes, epidemics of diseases and such. These events are just merely like the first pains of a woman in labour. Then sometime later while these things are going on the whole world would turn against you and severely persecute you and kill you. Many of you will backslide and betray one another on account of this persecution. Meanwhile, my impostors and opposers will continue with their deceiving and continue to deceive the majority. Sin and wickedness will be rampant and the love of many, especially believers towards God and the brethren will turn cold. These sufferings by you will demand much courage and endurance not to lose your faith, but to stand and keep standing to the end because only those who endure the sufferings will finally be saved. I tell you the truth, it is going to take endurance to survive to the end. Before the end, the gospel of the Kingdom would have been preached to all the nations as a witness. No nation and people would say they have not heard because it would be apparent to them through their persecution of you that it is because of my gospel which you represent that they are persecuting you.
What will signal these persecutions is the setting up of the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke about (you should understand!). So when you see the antichrist, the son of Satan and man of sin set up his image in the new temple in Jerusalem, then flee with haste at once. Don’t let anything or any thought hinder you. I pity pregnant women and nursing mothers because they can’t move out fast enough. Why the escape? It is because by the erection of this image Satan through the antichrist declares that he is God and demands the worship of all. You my disciples and religious Jews will refuse and therefore be the object of the most severe and great tribulation in the history of mankind and there would be none like it ever again. In fact the situation will be so terrible that if allowed to go on for too long no one single human being would be saved, but for my elects sake, (both Jews and Christians, Israel and my Church) the time will be cut short. Then because of the terrible sufferings religious Jews will be desperately desirous to see their Messiah return and you will also eagerly seek my return to deliver you by my appearing and your rapture. In your seeking me impostor and opposers will still want to exploit you and deceive you that I have returned and that I am in some secret location on the planet. They will show great wonders and signs and miracles to derail you. Don’t believe them because my coming will be like lightning in space not on land anywhere. Clearly, vultures gather will dead bodies of animals are found. So for you my disciples my appearing in the sky will be the focal point of your gathering.
My appearing will be in this manner: It will mark the end of the great tribulation that I talked about earlier. My coming is what will cut it short. My appearing will be signalled by the occurrence of great cosmic disturbances. The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. I, the Son of man, will appear in heaven above and then shall all the tribes of the earth lament and mourn and they will see me all over the world simultaneously in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (They will lament because they now would realise they have wronged me and have been wrong about me and the gospel and about my disciples and now I have come as the Bible and my disciples have said and because they know that I have come to avenge my disciples who have grievously suffered the great tribulation unleashed by them on my people under the command of antichrist because they refused his mark)
On my arrival I will send my angels to make a great sound of a trumpet, my deserving ones and elect will hear and they will be gathered together by my angels from all over the world to meet me in the air’’
After the rapture the wrath of God is poured on the world. The Holy Spirit is careful with the use of words. Throughout the Bible the word tribulation is almost always used with regards to and association with God’s people, Jews and Christians. While, especially in the New Testament, our major point of reference the word ‘wrath’ is generally used in association with unbelievers and backsliders.
Thank you.

Scholar8200:
The former reference speaks of the gathering unto Him when He comes after the Great Tribulation for the elects (Israel). Note that that coming will be with the saints.


When you consider 2Thess 1 you will realise that the setting is that of coming for the battle of Armageddon and this will be followed immediately by the Millenial reign, where then will the marriage supper of the Lamb, Bema seat etc take place?

Compare with 1 Thess 4 where it says we will meet Him in the air. That event in 1 Thess 4 will not be a coming with the saints but for the saints. The GT ends with the battle of Armagedon and the millenial starts off immediately afterwards. Then, when will the saints meet the Lord in the air?



I believe the Bible presents both scenarios because there will be some saints, other than Israel, that will miss the rapture but will be ready for His Second coming, and the Bible must still be relevant to them then.

Thank you Scholar8200
You have just rehearsed the obvious. I had known this for years since I gave my life to Christ in the 1980s. That was what we were taught and we believed it, hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, this pre-tribulation rapture teaching has misled almost the entire Church of Jesus Christ. I discovered this sometimes in the 1990s when for the first time I decided to be like the Berean Christian to do a personal study by the help of the Helper and Teacher, the Holy Spirit alone.
Now let us take a look at Matthew chapter 24:
Of the 3 questions that the disciples asked Jesus, the one directly regarding the rapture was the one most important to the final stage of a believer's salvation, dead and alive at the time it would occur and it is linked to the question, 'What will be the sign of your coming?'. The logical question to ask, therefore, is, Coming for WHO and WHAT apart from what the nature of the 'sign' would be.
LET ME ATTEMPT A PARAPHRASE OF WHAT JESUS SAID IN MATTHEW 24:4-31
‘‘Be careful. Don’t let anyone deceive you regarding my coming. Before my coming, many will claim to be ‘Christ’ up till when I finally arrive. They are impostors and opposers and will actually succeed in deceiving many (majority) of believers (because believers are primarily the target of Satan’s deception. It has always been so from the garden and will continue throughout all generations of believers till the end). Also, before my coming back to take you with me to heaven, there will be wars, ecological disasters such as famines, earthquakes and the likes, epidemics of diseases and such. These events are just merely like the first pains of a woman in labour. Then sometime later while these things are going on the whole world would turn against you and severely persecute you and kill you. Many of you will backslide and betray one another on account of this persecution. Meanwhile, my impostors and opposers will continue with their deceiving and continue to deceive the majority. Sin and wickedness will be rampant and the love of many, especially believers towards God and the brethren will turn cold. These sufferings by you will demand much courage and endurance not to lose your faith, but to stand and keep standing to the end because only those who endure the sufferings will finally be saved. I tell you the truth, it is going to take endurance to survive to the end. Before the end, the gospel of the Kingdom would have been preached to all the nations as a witness. No nation and people would say they have not heard because it would be apparent to them through their persecution of you that it is because of my gospel which you represent that they are persecuting you.
What will signal these persecutions is the setting up of the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke about (you should understand!). So when you see the antichrist, the son of Satan and man of sin set up his image in the new temple in Jerusalem, then flee with haste at once. Don’t let anything or any thought hinder you. I pity pregnant women and nursing mothers because they can’t move out fast enough. Why the escape? It is because by the erection of this image Satan through the antichrist declares that he is God and demands the worship of all. You my disciples and religious Jews will refuse and therefore be the object of the most severe and great tribulation in the history of mankind and there would be none like it ever again. In fact the situation will be so terrible that if allowed to go on for too long no one single human being would be saved, but for my elects sake, (both Jews and Christians, Israel and my Church) the time will be cut short. Then because of the terrible sufferings religious Jews will be desperately desirous to see their Messiah return and you will also eagerly seek my return to deliver you by my appearing and your rapture. In your seeking me impostor and opposers will still want to exploit you and deceive you that I have returned and that I am in some secret location on the planet. They will show great wonders and signs and miracles to derail you. Don’t believe them because my coming will be like lightning in space not on land anywhere. Clearly, vultures gather will dead bodies of animals are found. So for you my disciples my appearing in the sky will be the focal point of your gathering.
My appearing will be in this manner: It will mark the end of the great tribulation that I talked about earlier. My coming is what will cut it short. My appearing will be signalled by the occurrence of great cosmic disturbances. The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. I, the Son of man, will appear in heaven above and then shall all the tribes of the earth lament and mourn and they will see me all over the world simultaneously in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (They will lament because they now would realise they have wronged me and have been wrong about me and the gospel and about my disciples and now I have come as the Bible and my disciples have said and because they know that I have come to avenge my disciples who have grievously suffered the great tribulation unleashed by them on my people under the command of antichrist because they refused his mark)
On my arrival I will send my angels to make a great sound of a trumpet, my deserving ones and elect will hear and they will be gathered together by my angels from all over the world to meet me in the air’’
After the rapture the wrath of God is poured on the world. The Holy Spirit is careful with the use of words. Throughout the Bible the word tribulation is almost always used with regards to and association with God’s people, Jews and Christians. While, especially in the New Testament, our major point of reference the word ‘wrath’ is generally used in association with unbelievers and backsliders.
Thank you.

MrPRevailer:


The Rapture will take place and those who are ready (pure/spotless) will go. 1Thess 4:15.

There will be leftbehinds Christians and many pagans who will come to realise the truth. However, the false prophet will deceive many with his false miracles. And they will believe he's from God and take the mark. The two witnesses will also be sent to the world. In the great Tribulation, it is no more salvation by Grace but by blood. By resistance till the end. The great Tribulation(7 yrs) will be at its peak in the last 3 and half years. God will seal 144,000 Isrealites who will resist till the end.
God will cause a great and noisy sore upon the flesh of those that received the mark. And history's most devastating far reaching earthquake since mankind was created will happen.

In the end of 7 years, Russia, Libya, Turkey will come with an overwhelming great army against Israel to totally destroy it. Thats when their Messiah Jesus will come from Heaven with the raptured saints, and destroy the armies with the Sword in his mouth. And the Antichrist and false prophet will be taken and cast alive in the Lake of fire. Revelations 19:11-21

Satan that deceived them will be bound and sealed for a thousand years in prison so that he can't deceive anymore. And The Lord will establish and rule for a thousand years. The saints will rule the world with a rod of iron. Revelation 2:26-28.

After the thousand years are over, Satan will be loosed from prison to deceive the humans (not the saints). And gather a great army against Jesus and his saints. Fire will devour them from Heaven. And the old serpent will be taken and finally cast to the Lake of fire where the Antichrist and false prophet are. After this, the final judgement of sinners will begin. All damned souls will stand before God and be judged, the punishment according to their works on earth. And all be cast in the Lake of Fire.

This earth and Heaven will disappear forever. And there will be a new Heaven and New Earth where the saints will dwell forever. And God and the Lamb will be their Light. Revelations 21:1-23

'And there shall in no wise enter into anything that defileth nor works abomination, or a maketh a lie: but they whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Rev 21:27.

THE WORD OF GOD AND TRUTH.

THE MISTAKE OF THE PRE-TRIB TEACHING IS TO MIX UP THE WORDS 'TRIBULATION' AND 'WRATH'

DO THIS. PICK A COMPREHENSIVE KJV CONCORDANCE ESPECIALLY ONLINE. SEARCH FOR THE TWO WORDS.
THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL DISCOVER

1) 'Tribulation' appears 25 times. 3 times in the OT and the remaining 22 times in the NT. In all except 2 or 3 scriptures, the word is found in association with believers suffering.
2) 'Wrath' is found many times. In the NT they are ALL in relation to unbelievers or backsliders.

God's people escape God's wrath.
Unbelieving world suffers God's wrath executed by Christ.
Believers suffer Satan's wrath executed by Antichrist.

Do your own search.

Good morning.

people fail to realise that the tribulation of the church has started since... also... many people have received the mark.. its not a physical mark

omojeesu:
Thank you Scholar8200
You have just rehearsed the obvious. I had known this for years since I gave my life to Christ in the 1980s. That was what we were taught and we believed it, hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, this pre-tribulation rapture teaching has misled almost the entire Church of Jesus Christ. I discovered this sometimes in the 1990s when for the first time I decided to be like the Berean Christian to do a personal study by the help of the Helper and Teacher, the Holy Spirit alone.

misled? Exactly how?

Now let us take a look at Matthew chapter 24:
Of the 3 questions that the disciples asked Jesus, the one directly regarding the rapture was the one most important to the final stage of a believer's salvation, dead and alive at the time it would occur and it is linked to the question, 'What will be the sign of your coming?'. The logical question to ask, therefore, is, Coming for WHO and WHAT apart from what the nature of the 'sign' would be.
LET ME ATTEMPT A PARAPHRASE OF WHAT JESUS SAID IN MATTHEW 24:4-31
‘‘Be careful. Don’t let anyone deceive you regarding my coming. Before my coming, many will claim to be ‘Christ’ up till when I finally arrive. They are impostors and opposers and will actually succeed in deceiving many (majority) of believers (because believers are primarily the target of Satan’s deception. It has always been so from the garden and will continue throughout all generations of believers till the end). Also, before my coming back to take you with me to heaven, there will be wars, ecological disasters such as famines, earthquakes and the likes, epidemics of diseases and such. These events are just merely like the first pains of a woman in labour. Then sometime later while these things are going on the whole world would turn against you and severely persecute you and kill you. Many of you will backslide and betray one another on account of this persecution. Meanwhile, my impostors and opposers will continue with their deceiving and continue to deceive the majority. Sin and wickedness will be rampant and the love of many, especially believers towards God and the brethren will turn cold. These sufferings by you will demand much courage and endurance not to lose your faith, but to stand and keep standing to the end because only those who endure the sufferings will finally be saved. I tell you the truth, it is going to take endurance to survive to the end. Before the end, the gospel of the Kingdom would have been preached to all the nations as a witness. No nation and people would say they have not heard because it would be apparent to them through their persecution of you that it is because of my gospel which you represent that they are persecuting you.
What will signal these persecutions is the setting up of the abomination of desolation that Daniel spoke about (you should understand!). So when you see the antichrist, the son of Satan and man of sin set up his image in the new temple in Jerusalem, then flee with haste at once. Don’t let anything or any thought hinder you. I pity pregnant women and nursing mothers because they can’t move out fast enough. Why the escape? It is because by the erection of this image Satan through the antichrist declares that he is God and demands the worship of all. You my disciples and religious Jews will refuse and therefore be the object of the most severe and great tribulation in the history of mankind and there would be none like it ever again. In fact the situation will be so terrible that if allowed to go on for too long no one single human being would be saved, but for my elects sake, (both Jews and Christians, Israel and my Church) the time will be cut short. Then because of the terrible sufferings religious Jews will be desperately desirous to see their Messiah return and you will also eagerly seek my return to deliver you by my appearing and your rapture. In your seeking me impostor and opposers will still want to exploit you and deceive you that I have returned and that I am in some secret location on the planet. They will show great wonders and signs and miracles to derail you. Don’t believe them because my coming will be like lightning in space not on land anywhere. Clearly, vultures gather will dead bodies of animals are found. So for you my disciples my appearing in the sky will be the focal point of your gathering.
My appearing will be in this manner: It will mark the end of the great tribulation that I talked about earlier. My coming is what will cut it short. My appearing will be signalled by the occurrence of great cosmic disturbances. The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. I, the Son of man, will appear in heaven above and then shall all the tribes of the earth lament and mourn and they will see me all over the world simultaneously in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (They will lament because they now would realise they have wronged me and have been wrong about me and the gospel and about my disciples and now I have come as the Bible and my disciples have said and because they know that I have come to avenge my disciples who have grievously suffered the great tribulation unleashed by them on my people under the command of antichrist because they refused his mark)
On my arrival I will send my angels to make a great sound of a trumpet, my deserving ones and elect will hear and they will be gathered together by my angels from all over the world to meet me in the air’’
After the rapture the wrath of God is poured on the world. The Holy Spirit is careful with the use of words. Throughout the Bible the word tribulation is almost always used with regards to and association with God’s people, Jews and Christians. While, especially in the New Testament, our major point of reference the word ‘wrath’ is generally used in association with unbelievers and backsliders.
Thank you.

Sir, the Great Tribulation is also called the time of Jacob's trouble (Jer. 30:7). This is because it is the time that commences after the Church age , the gap between the 69th and 70th week. The 70th week is the period of the tribulation when God resumes His programme for Israel(Jacob). Why will the Church be left behind when that age ends?
Now when it talks of angels being sent to gather the elect, i hope you realize this is not the rapture? Just as Jesus was received up sans angelic assistance, so will we. Rather the gathering here refers to something that will happen on earth,not in the air. This must be because after the battle of Armageddon, Millenial reign commences and the Earthly reign of Christ with the saints and remnant Israel will be from Jerusalem. See Zechariah 14:3-end.
note vs 3 saying the Lord will come and vs 5b says He will come WITH the saints not for the saints.

The Church is equating the prophetic ‘great tribulation’ with the wrath of God only!
94. Tribulation versus Wrath
a. The Wrath of God = Is Tribulation for the unbelieving world
b. The Wrath of the devil = Is Tribulation essentially for the people of God: Jews and Christians alike.
95. Who executes whose wrath?
a. The Wrath of God Is executed by the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Lamb of God
b. The Wrath of the devil Is executed by the Beast, the anti-Christ
What the pre-trib theory teaches
Just before the antichrist appears on the world scene, the church is raptured. Those who are ‘left behind’ includes backslidden believers and unbelievers. Some backslidden believers now repent and face the terror of the antichrist as they refuse to take his mark. They are killed and save themselves through martyrdom. Some unbelievers also repent and die likewise. These ones who die through martyrdom are referred to as the ‘tribulation saints’. Antichrist reaches peace agreement with Israel for 7 years but breaks it in the middle of the peace period ……Tribulation is on earth, but the Church is in heaven.
The problem with the pre-tribulation position
1. The name antichrist means: ‘in place of’ as well as ‘against’. The antichrist is both an impostor and opposer of Christ.
2. As antichrist he is against Christ and all that belongs to Him – His people – Jews and Christians. There is no way he can touch Jesus direct, so he turns against His people. If the believers/church has gone, antichrist is not properly and fully antichrist in name. He would only be anti-Jew and anti-Israel.
3. The world will hail antichrist. They will see him as a saviour. They are already his. The real aim of the antichrist is to get God’s people away from Christ by pretending to be the expected One. He won’t have such opportunity if the Church has gone. Many Jews will actually believe him until it is too late!
4. In better times backslidden believers could not stand for the Lord. How easy will they stand under the beast. Also the ‘rapturable’ believers and pastors are in heaven, who will support and guide these ones left behind. The Bible is banned or a new corrupt version is allowed ……
5. Who is the mark of the beast really meant for? The people of the world that already belong to Satan and to whom having a mark is no big deal and actually of no consequence in essence (they go to hell mark or no mark) or believers to force them reject Jesus.
6. No one is ever saved through martyrdom, but by the blood of the lamb!

Backslidden believers don’t deserve to be called ‘saint‘. Concerning the word ‘saint’.
1. It is one of the names / titles of believers. It is the most glorious of our titles because it conveys godliness and holiness. We easily don’t mind saying we are born again, Christian, child of God, etc but although we know we are saints we rarely use the word in reference to ourselves. It is the most appropriate and most befitting title for the believer during the world’s darkest moment in history under antichrist, Satan incarnate himself. During the period of darkness and horrific sins God’s light shines through His saints who would remain faithful to the end!

The pre-tribulation teaching as a major reason for the apostasy, ‘the great falling away’. The teaching says, ‘Don’t you worry, before antichrist comes, Jesus takes you away’. So when people suddenly realise their error when they meet antichrist, the rapture yet to occur and not having prepared beforehand they fall away under pressure.
CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:
1. How can God take away His champions before the final conflict? Only backslidden believers and new believers will now be left behind to stand for God? They were ‘yoyo’ Christians before the antichrist emerged and will they be suddenly strong to face the antichrist?
2. Moses faced Pharaoh, David faced Goliath, The Apostles faced the Jews and Rome, Protestants faced the Popes. But we, surrounded by the cloud of witnesses and to whom much is given will just dodge the enemy?
3. Satan's greatest delight is to see God’s people of ALL AGES suffer. He will do it most severely against the last generation of Christians ‘upon whom (truly) the end of the world have come’.
4. We are in a race, a relay race in fact. The believers that carry the ‘baton’ last have the greatest challenge to win the race for all, for themselves and for the glory of God!
5. Up till the 19th century, believers expected that the church will be dealt with by the final antichrist. But this changed towards the end of that century and has remained to this day. The argument that ‘Church’ is missing in Revelations after chapter 3 is of no consequence. Our salvation is individualised. Each saint will be tried not a church, group or denomination. Salvation is about personal responsibility!
6. If the pre-trib teaching is correct : Those of us who believe we will pass through antichrist generated tribulation will still be raptured because though we have prepared for the worst, and it hasn’t happen, our preparation in love, faith, holiness and faithfulness makes us rapturable!
7. If the pre-trib teaching is wrong: Our preparation will still help us to face the fire of the antichrist while those who did not, who were promised / taught soft landing will find it more difficult to resist the enemy. The pre-trib teaching will make believers unprepared to stand to the end against antichrist because they have been assured that they would never meet this son of perdition.
8. Today in the Church
a. Hardly are end time issues discussed, preached or taught.
b. The dominant issues are: prosperity, miracles, personal development, motivational talks, etc
c. Songs like, ‘Me I no go suffer, I no go beg for bread …God of miracles, na my papa o …..’ and ‘The God that answereth by fire, let Him be my God …’ reflect our thoughts and attitudes, orientation
d. Many have no depth in the word. Many of us have poor relational testimonies. Evangelism is relegated to the background. Mission work is poorly supported. The world has entered the Church. We have adopted e.g. its fashion trends, its entertainment, etc. Money is being worshipped. We are engrossed in projects (e.g. building Church Palaces) and programmes, etc.
9. The condition in which the Church is right now is appalling! Jesus must not come now to meet us this way! We are simply not ready for the Lord, because he is coming back for a Church that is without spot or wrinkle. A glorious Church!! The world is going to get more and more unliveable for us because of sin. Lot was so much in pain in Sodom.
10. Finally, God’s people have generally been delivered at the height of their suffering it will be so in future for believers. Rapture will take place at the height of the greatest persecution of living saints never seen or experienced before! We have been warned adequately.
11. Let those who have ears
hear ‘what the Spirit is saying’ in these last days!


Thank you.

HABA! WHY FORCE WHAT IS NOT THERE INTO WHAT IS CLEARLY THERE.

FOREHEAD IS FOREHEAD.

RIGHT HAND IS RIGHT HAND.

DID THE WORD SABBATH EVEN APPEAR ONCE IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS? WHAT ABOUT DANIEL?

IF WHAT YOU INFER WAS RIGHT SHOULDN'T GOD MAKE IT CLEAR?

NOW CONSIDER THIS:

Col 2:12-17

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all respasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:
17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the body is of Christ. KJV

CHRIST IS RELATED TO BOTH JEWS AND CHRISTIANS IN THE FLESH AND SPIRITUALLY RESPECTIVELY.

ANTI-CHRIST WILL DEAL WITH BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY. HE CANT TOUCH CHRIST BUT HE CAN AND WILL DEAL WITH HIS PEOPLE AND THE CHURCH, HIS BODY, IN PARTICULAR.

IF HE WOULD ONLY DEAL WITH THE JEWS, THEN HE CAN NOT BE APPROPRIATELY AND FULLY BE 'ANTI-CHRIST'. INSTEAD WE SHOULD JUST CALL HIM ANTI-JEW OR ANTI-SEMITIC.

omojeesu:
The Church is equating the prophetic ‘great tribulation’ with the wrath of God only!
94. Tribulation versus Wrath
a. The Wrath of God = Is Tribulation for the unbelieving world
b. The Wrath of the devil = Is Tribulation essentially for the people of God: Jews and Christians alike.
95. Who executes whose wrath?
a. The Wrath of God Is executed by the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Lamb of God
b. The Wrath of the devil Is executed by the Beast, the anti-Christ
What the pre-trib theory teaches
Just before the antichrist appears on the world scene, the church is raptured. Those who are ‘left behind’ includes backslidden believers and unbelievers. Some backslidden believers now repent and face the terror of the antichrist as they refuse to take his mark. They are killed and save themselves through martyrdom. Some unbelievers also repent and die likewise. These ones who die through martyrdom are referred to as the ‘tribulation saints’. Antichrist reaches peace agreement with Israel for 7 years but breaks it in the middle of the peace period ……Tribulation is on earth, but the Church is in heaven.
The problem with the pre-tribulation position
1. The name antichrist means: ‘in place of’ as well as ‘against’. The antichrist is both an impostor and opposer of Christ.
2. As antichrist he is against Christ and all that belongs to Him – His people – Jews and Christians. There is no way he can touch Jesus direct, so he turns against His people. If the believers/church has gone, antichrist is not properly and fully antichrist in name. He would only be anti-Jew and anti-Israel.
3. The world will hail antichrist. They will see him as a saviour. They are already his. The real aim of the antichrist is to get God’s people away from Christ by pretending to be the expected One. He won’t have such opportunity if the Church has gone. Many Jews will actually believe him until it is too late!
4. In better times backslidden believers could not stand for the Lord. How easy will they stand under the beast. Also the ‘rapturable’ believers and pastors are in heaven, who will support and guide these ones left behind. The Bible is banned or a new corrupt version is allowed ……
5. Who is the mark of the beast really meant for? The people of the world that already belong to Satan and to whom having a mark is no big deal and actually of no consequence in essence (they go to hell mark or no mark) or believers to force them reject Jesus.
6. No one is ever saved through martyrdom, but by the blood of the lamb!

Backslidden believers don’t deserve to be called ‘saint‘. Concerning the word ‘saint’.
1. It is one of the names / titles of believers. It is the most glorious of our titles because it conveys godliness and holiness. We easily don’t mind saying we are born again, Christian, child of God, etc but although we know we are saints we rarely use the word in reference to ourselves. It is the most appropriate and most befitting title for the believer during the world’s darkest moment in history under antichrist, Satan incarnate himself. During the period of darkness and horrific sins God’s light shines through His saints who would remain faithful to the end!

The pre-tribulation teaching as a major reason for the apostasy, ‘the great falling away’. The teaching says, ‘Don’t you worry, before antichrist comes, Jesus takes you away’. So when people suddenly realise their error when they meet antichrist, the rapture yet to occur and not having prepared beforehand they fall away under pressure.
CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:
1. How can God take away His champions before the final conflict? Only backslidden believers and new believers will now be left behind to stand for God? They were ‘yoyo’ Christians before the antichrist emerged and will they be suddenly strong to face the antichrist?
2. Moses faced Pharaoh, David faced Goliath, The Apostles faced the Jews and Rome, Protestants faced the Popes. But we, surrounded by the cloud of witnesses and to whom much is given will just dodge the enemy?
3. Satan's greatest delight is to see God’s people of ALL AGES suffer. He will do it most severely against the last generation of Christians ‘upon whom (truly) the end of the world have come’.
4. We are in a race, a relay race in fact. The believers that carry the ‘baton’ last have the greatest challenge to win the race for all, for themselves and for the glory of God!
5. Up till the 19th century, believers expected that the church will be dealt with by the final antichrist. But this changed towards the end of that century and has remained to this day. The argument that ‘Church’ is missing in Revelations after chapter 3 is of no consequence. Our salvation is individualised. Each saint will be tried not a church, group or denomination. Salvation is about personal responsibility!
6. If the pre-trib teaching is correct : Those of us who believe we will pass through antichrist generated tribulation will still be raptured because though we have prepared for the worst, and it hasn’t happen, our preparation in love, faith, holiness and faithfulness makes us rapturable!
7. If the pre-trib teaching is wrong: Our preparation will still help us to face the fire of the antichrist while those who did not, who were promised / taught soft landing will find it more difficult to resist the enemy. The pre-trib teaching will make believers unprepared to stand to the end against antichrist because they have been assured that they would never meet this son of perdition.
8. Today in the Church
a. Hardly are end time issues discussed, preached or taught.
b. The dominant issues are: prosperity, miracles, personal development, motivational talks, etc
c. Songs like, ‘Me I no go suffer, I no go beg for bread …God of miracles, na my papa o …..’ and ‘The God that answereth by fire, let Him be my God …’ reflect our thoughts and attitudes, orientation
d. Many have no depth in the word. Many of us have poor relational testimonies. Evangelism is relegated to the background. Mission work is poorly supported. The world has entered the Church. We have adopted e.g. its fashion trends, its entertainment, etc. Money is being worshipped. We are engrossed in projects (e.g. building Church Palaces) and programmes, etc.
9. The condition in which the Church is right now is appalling! Jesus must not come now to meet us this way! We are simply not ready for the Lord, because he is coming back for a Church that is without spot or wrinkle. A glorious Church!! The world is going to get more and more unliveable for us because of sin. Lot was so much in pain in Sodom.
10. Finally, God’s people have generally been delivered at the height of their suffering it will be so in future for believers. Rapture will take place at the height of the greatest persecution of living saints never seen or experienced before! We have been warned adequately.
11. Let those who have ears
hear ‘what the Spirit is saying’ in these last days!


Thank you.

the church isn't that building u go to worship on Sundays.. the church of God is neither denomination or building.. so don't expect the “church" to change their ways suddenly and poof .. Jesus has come.. its not like that

LET US COMPARE SCRIPTURES WITH THE WORD 'GATHER' ESPECIALLY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

1) Matt 3:12 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and GATHER his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
2) Matt 13:28-30 - (28) He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and GATHER them up? (29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
3) Matt 13:37-40 - 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
4) OUR TEXT - Matt 24:31 - 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
5) PAUL CONFIRMED IT: Eph 1:10 - That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: WHAT IS THIS? RAPTURE!

NOTE ALSO THE ASSOCIATION WITH TRUMPET:
1 Cor 15:51-57 (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

PLEASE, THIS 'GATHERING' IS 'RAPTURE! THE TRUMPET WILL BE BLOWN BY THE ANGEL AND THEY WILL 'REAP' US 'THE WHEAT'

BLESS YOU.

omojeesu:
The Church is equating the prophetic ‘great tribulation’ with the wrath of God only!
94. Tribulation versus Wrath
a. The Wrath of God = Is Tribulation for the unbelieving world
b. The Wrath of the devil = Is Tribulation essentially for the people of God: Jews and Christians alike.
95. Who executes whose wrath?
a. The Wrath of God Is executed by the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Lamb of God
b. The Wrath of the devil Is executed by the Beast, the anti-Christ
What the pre-trib theory teaches
Just before the antichrist appears on the world scene, the church is raptured. Those who are ‘left behind’ includes backslidden believers and unbelievers. Some backslidden believers now repent and face the terror of the antichrist as they refuse to take his mark. They are killed and save themselves through martyrdom. Some unbelievers also repent and die likewise. These ones who die through martyrdom are referred to as the ‘tribulation saints’. Antichrist reaches peace agreement with Israel for 7 years but breaks it in the middle of the peace period ……Tribulation is on earth, but the Church is in heaven.
The problem with the pre-tribulation position
1. The name antichrist means: ‘in place of’ as well as ‘against’. The antichrist is both an impostor and opposer of Christ.
2. As antichrist he is against Christ and all that belongs to Him – His people – Jews and Christians. There is no way he can touch Jesus direct, so he turns against His people. If the believers/church has gone, antichrist is not properly and fully antichrist in name. He would only be anti-Jew and anti-Israel.
3. The world will hail antichrist. They will see him as a saviour. They are already his. The real aim of the antichrist is to get God’s people away from Christ by pretending to be the expected One. He won’t have such opportunity if the Church has gone. Many Jews will actually believe him until it is too late!
4. In better times backslidden believers could not stand for the Lord. How easy will they stand under the beast. Also the ‘rapturable’ believers and pastors are in heaven, who will support and guide these ones left behind. The Bible is banned or a new corrupt version is allowed ……
5. Who is the mark of the beast really meant for? The people of the world that already belong to Satan and to whom having a mark is no big deal and actually of no consequence in essence (they go to hell mark or no mark) or believers to force them reject Jesus.
6. No one is ever saved through martyrdom, but by the blood of the lamb!

Backslidden believers don’t deserve to be called ‘saint‘. Concerning the word ‘saint’.
1. It is one of the names / titles of believers. It is the most glorious of our titles because it conveys godliness and holiness. We easily don’t mind saying we are born again, Christian, child of God, etc but although we know we are saints we rarely use the word in reference to ourselves. It is the most appropriate and most befitting title for the believer during the world’s darkest moment in history under antichrist, Satan incarnate himself. During the period of darkness and horrific sins God’s light shines through His saints who would remain faithful to the end!

The pre-tribulation teaching as a major reason for the apostasy, ‘the great falling away’. The teaching says, ‘Don’t you worry, before antichrist comes, Jesus takes you away’. So when people suddenly realise their error when they meet antichrist, the rapture yet to occur and not having prepared beforehand they fall away under pressure.
CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:
1. How can God take away His champions before the final conflict? Only backslidden believers and new believers will now be left behind to stand for God? They were ‘yoyo’ Christians before the antichrist emerged and will they be suddenly strong to face the antichrist?
2. Moses faced Pharaoh, David faced Goliath, The Apostles faced the Jews and Rome, Protestants faced the Popes. But we, surrounded by the cloud of witnesses and to whom much is given will just dodge the enemy?
3. Satan's greatest delight is to see God’s people of ALL AGES suffer. He will do it most severely against the last generation of Christians ‘upon whom (truly) the end of the world have come’.
4. We are in a race, a relay race in fact. The believers that carry the ‘baton’ last have the greatest challenge to win the race for all, for themselves and for the glory of God!
5. Up till the 19th century, believers expected that the church will be dealt with by the final antichrist. But this changed towards the end of that century and has remained to this day. The argument that ‘Church’ is missing in Revelations after chapter 3 is of no consequence. Our salvation is individualised. Each saint will be tried not a church, group or denomination. Salvation is about personal responsibility!
6. If the pre-trib teaching is correct : Those of us who believe we will pass through antichrist generated tribulation will still be raptured because though we have prepared for the worst, and it hasn’t happen, our preparation in love, faith, holiness and faithfulness makes us rapturable!
7. If the pre-trib teaching is wrong: Our preparation will still help us to face the fire of the antichrist while those who did not, who were promised / taught soft landing will find it more difficult to resist the enemy. The pre-trib teaching will make believers unprepared to stand to the end against antichrist because they have been assured that they would never meet this son of perdition.
8. Today in the Church
a. Hardly are end time issues discussed, preached or taught.
b. The dominant issues are: prosperity, miracles, personal development, motivational talks, etc
c. Songs like, ‘Me I no go suffer, I no go beg for bread …God of miracles, na my papa o …..’ and ‘The God that answereth by fire, let Him be my God …’ reflect our thoughts and attitudes, orientation
d. Many have no depth in the word. Many of us have poor relational testimonies. Evangelism is relegated to the background. Mission work is poorly supported. The world has entered the Church. We have adopted e.g. its fashion trends, its entertainment, etc. Money is being worshipped. We are engrossed in projects (e.g. building Church Palaces) and programmes, etc.
9. The condition in which the Church is right now is appalling! Jesus must not come now to meet us this way! We are simply not ready for the Lord, because he is coming back for a Church that is without spot or wrinkle. A glorious Church!! The world is going to get more and more unliveable for us because of sin. Lot was so much in pain in Sodom.
10. Finally, God’s people have generally been delivered at the height of their suffering it will be so in future for believers. Rapture will take place at the height of the greatest persecution of living saints never seen or experienced before! We have been warned adequately.
11. Let those who have ears
hear ‘what the Spirit is saying’ in these last days!


Thank you.

True talk .
Even Rev 20:4 said they will reign with Christ so if they were back slided Christians how will that be possible

New International Version
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:4

omojeesu:
■ We have been told that before the antichrist emerges on the world scene the rapture would take place. Is this really correct in the face of Biblical accounts in Daniel, the Gospels, Paul's letters and the Revelation?
■ We must not be wrong on this matter because of associated serious implication: If indeed antichrist will deal with God's people and we are not ready to meet him because we've been told we won't meet him then many may fall away and take his 666 mark to their eternal doom.
Please, let's consider this. The Great Tribulation - Resolving the Confusion

I am afraid whatever confusion you have regarding the Tribulation as spoken of by Daniel, reiterated by Jesus Christ, and then spoken again of by Paul is wholly yours and has nothing to do with what is stated in Scripture. This is because Jesus Christ said, that the tribulation He spoke of, it would take place during the generation that was His disciples. And history has it, that just as Daniel, the other prophets, and Jesus Christ stated, it all took place about 1900 years ago, just as they described. Jesus Christ revealed that nothing of what was to come would be hidden from them - passage of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

32 “The fig tree teaches us a lesson: When its branches become green and soft, and new leaves begin to grow, then you know that summer is very near.
33 In the same way, when you see all these things happening, you will know that the time[d] is very near, already present.
34 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living.
35 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever. - Matthew 24 vs 32 - 35

Jesus Christ said all this in response to the questions asked Him by His disciples.

1 Jesus left the Temple area and was walking away. But his followers came to him to show him the Temple’s buildings.
2 He asked them, “Are you looking at these buildings? The fact is, they will be destroyed. Every stone will be thrown down to the ground. Not one stone will be left on another.”
3 Later, Jesus was sitting at a place on the Mount of Olives. The followers came to be alone with him. They said, (Question#1) “Tell us when these things will happen.(Question#2) And what will happen to prepare us for your coming and the end of time?” - Matthew 24 vs 1 - 3

According to Jesus Christ the enemy was already on earth even while He was on earth. John alluded to the antiChrist's children already being among the people of his time.

18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. - 1 John 2 vs 18 - 19

So, who in the world are you still waiting for?

2. How can you be more right than Jesus Christ Himself is what you ought to ask yourself in this. Daniel said the end would come 500 years from the time the message went out to rebuild Jerusalem(the city, not the temple by the way). So the people of the time knew exactly when the end was to befall them. Jesus Christ came and explained that it would happen in the same generation He was a part of. So why are you still unsure of when Tribulation took place almost 2000 years later?

Scholar8200:
■ misled? Exactly how? Sir, the Great Tribulation is also called the time of Jacob's trouble (Jer. 30:7). This is because it is the time that commences after the Church age , the gap between the 69th and 70th week. The 70th week is the period of the tribulation when God resumes His programme for Israel(Jacob). Why will the Church be left behind when that age ends?
Now when it talks of angels being sent to gather the elect, i hope you realize this is not the rapture? Just as Jesus was received up sans angelic assistance, so will we. Rather the gathering here refers to something that will happen on earth,not in the air. This must be because after the battle of Armageddon, Millenial reign commences and the Earthly reign of Christ with the saints and remnant Israel will be from Jerusalem. See Zechariah 14:3-end. note vs 3 saying the Lord will come and vs 5b says He will come WITH the saints not for the saints.

All this you have here amounts to gobbledegook when put next to what is written in Scripture.

By the way, there is no 14th chapter of Zechariah, so my guess is you mean Zechariah 13 and not 14 there. And if you read closely what Zechariah wrote, you will see instead that He described what took place when God finally judgment against Israel (and the Nation of Judah) took place about 1900 years ago.

1 But at that time a new spring of water will be opened for David’s family and for the other people living in Jerusalem. That fountain will be to wash away their sins and to make the people pure.
2 The Lord All-Powerful says, “At that time I will remove all the idols from the earth. People will not even remember their names, and I will remove the false prophets and unclean spirits from the earth.
3 Whoever continues to prophesy will be punished. Even their parents, their own mother and father, will say to them, ‘You have spoken lies in the name of the Lord, so you must die!’ Their own mother and father will stab them for prophesying.
4 At that time the prophets will be ashamed of their visions and prophecies. They will not wear the rough cloth that shows a person is a prophet. They will not wear those clothes to trick people with the lies they call prophecies.
5 They will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer. I have worked as a farmer since I was a little child.’
6 But other people will say, ‘Then what are these wounds in your hands?’ He will say, ‘I was beaten in the house of my friends.’”
7 The Lord All-Powerful says, “Sword, wake up and strike the shepherd, my friend! Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will run away. And I will punish those little ones.
8 Two-thirds of the people in the land will be struck down and die,” says the Lord, “but one-third will survive.
9 Then I will test those survivors by giving them many troubles. The troubles will be like the fire a person uses to prove silver is pure. I will test them the way a person tests gold. Then they will call to me for help, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘You are my people.’ And they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’” - Zechariah 13 vs 2 - 9

God's Sword— His Judgement— woke up as Jesus Christ, the one who is the new Fountain of Living Water that showed up at the time, said it would happen - Matthew 10 vs 34. Recall also that Jesus Christ, the Shepherd - John 10 vs 1 - 16 -- who is also friend of God - John 15 vs 9-14, was struck by God's sword -- He had to die as He made clear. And in that same generation that His disciples were a part of, the Sword equally came down on the land of Judea, and all the Nations that God promised to Judge. According to God, 2/3rd of the people in the land of Judae were killed off or died of famine. Those who survived in the land faced many tribulations.

Which version of the Bible are your using please?

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid whatever confusion you have regarding the Tribulation as spoken of by Daniel, reiterated by Jesus Christ, and then spoken again of by Paul is wholly yours and has nothing to do with what is stated in Scripture. This is because Jesus Christ said, that the tribulation He spoke of, it would take place during the generation that was His disciples. And history has it, that just as Daniel, the other prophets, and Jesus Christ stated, it all took place about 1900 years ago, just as they described. Jesus Christ revealed that nothing of what was to come would be hidden from them - passage of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.
Jesus Christ said all this in response to the questions asked Him by His disciples.
According to Jesus Christ the enemy was already on earth even while He was on earth. John alluded to the antiChrist's children already being among the people of his time.
So, who in the world are you still waiting for?

2. How can you be more right than Jesus Christ Himself is what you ought to ask yourself in this. Daniel said the end would come 500 years from the time the message went out to rebuild Jerusalem(the city, not the temple by the way). So the people of the time knew exactly when the end was to befall them. Jesus Christ came and explained that it would happen in the same generation He was a part of. So why are you still unsure of when Tribulation took place almost 2000 years later?

Missed the whole point!

petra1:
The church won't be part of tribulation . But the saints who would be left behind at the rapture will go through tribulation . The church will be taken out of the way before the tribulation .

2 Thessalonians 2:6-9 (AMP)
And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time.
For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only untilhe who restrains is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one (the antichrist) will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming.
The coming [of the lawless one, the antichrist] is through the activity and working of Satan and will be attended by great power and with all sorts of [pretended] miracles and signs and delusive marvels—[all of them] lying wonders—

Paul made it clear that to be "CAUGHT UP" at the rapture is the next thing now

omojeesu:
Which version of the Bible are your using please?

Easy-To-Read.

I hope you are not here going to insinuate that other versions say something different so Jesus Christ must have lied in this one version.

My friend, you got it all wrong.
Some of the scripture references you quoted has nothing to do with the great tribulation period but with individual troubles.

Christians that will pass through the great tribulation will be those who will miss the rapture. And they will be more in number. This is why the elder told John;

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have WASHED THEIR ROBES, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

They couldn't make the rapture because their robes were stained with sin. But they made it through a second chance. But only after they have washed their robes.

And there will be two great tribulation period. The first has to do with the Church. Those who miss the rapture will pass through this first great tribulation.

The second tribulation period has to do with the Jews. But only 144,000 Jews sealed in Revelation 7 will be raptured at the end of the great tribulation period. This happened in Revelation 14.

All the end time prophecy Jesus gave in Matthew 24 has nothing to do with the Gentile church. It's about the nation of Israel.

In summary, there are three future rapture and two future great tribulations.

The first Rapture is the rapture of the faithful saints among this present church age.

The second Rapture is the rapture of the two witnesss in Revelation 11.

The third Rapture is the rapture of 144,000 Jews.

Please, feel free to ask questions. This is my field. The Lord has blessed me with abundant revelation on end time issues.

omojeesu, Scholar8200

Old lie from the pit of hell