steppin:

Yoruba man will always try to twist a tale to Favour him.
They have bini ancestry, yet their names, culture and language are from Igbo.
Oyibos colonized us, but we still have our culture, language and every other thing.
How come they lost theirs just because of the civil war?

First of all, we can discuss this issue without anyone resorting to cheap tribal 'insults.' Get it?
Now, to the issue at hand - Yes, there are instances in history were a group of people COMPLETELY assimilate the culture of a dominant group. This is not unheard of so you might want to consider another argument.

Igboid:


Do you really think so?

Oyigbo has Oil, yet are proud Igbos.
Ika has no oil, yet the "We be Bini" story there is stronger than kiliwi wachukwu.

It will take more than just their oil drying up to reconcile these people back to the fold.

Though I believe that the Post 1970 oil politics of the FG played a big role in their current psyche.

It will take a strong leadership in SE, whose single aim is the unification of all Igbo speaking clans under one realm. This leadership must be a progressive forward looking one.
I'm yet to see one.

Who told you that Oyigbo is Igbo, na so you deh thief?
Oyigbo is an Ogoni land the the asa people of abia took some lands from at times paste for residence but letter claimed to be the owners, giving rise to Igbos calling it Obigbo.
Go to Afam which is the heartland Of Oyigbo, you will see that they are Ogonis.

gidgiddy:
I dont care if Ogba people claim to be decendants of king Henry the 8th of England. What I would like to know is how their names changed to Igbo? If they can remember that they are from Bini, they should be able to remember how their Bini names became Igbo

How does a full blooded African bear the name Victor Moses? Can you understand that?

Funnicator:
Eze of Ogbaland?

Nonsense. How can there be an Eze in Rivers state. Igbo has nothing to do with Rivers state.

OP, change your title.

.

Now, what if the name Akalaka changed over the years to sound more Igboid and less Biniad? Have you considered this possibility? Also, Akpa ohia might be an Igbo name but that does not negate the claim that Akalaka (his father) was a bini prince - after all Rotimi Amechi is not Yoruba yet bears a typical Yoruba name - this practice is a very old one.

No such thing happened, as all thing rooted in antiquity in Ogbaland are all Igboid, it's unlikely Akalaka name changed over time. Nothing whatsoever on ground to support this hypothesis.

No Bini Prince would be going by Igbo name, it can't happen in Modern Bini, it sure as hell couldnt have happened in Ancient Bini.

Bad example. Amaechi surname is Amaechi and his first name is Chibuike, his language is also Igboid, it takes no much rationality to notice that "Rotimi" is an anomaly, and to conclude that he is non Yoruba.

To run this hypothesis, you would have to present another Bini Prince in history with Igbo name, who isn't Igbo speaking.
Seeing as Rotimi is not Yoruba speaking.

Akalaka is not just an Igbo name, his Ogba clan is Igbo speaking.

RickyTan:


Chibuike Amaechi is Igbo
Odili another Igbo raised In Onitsha
Only people that will govern rivers are Igbos meaning majority of the people are Igbos.
So die or move into the Atlantic child of hate

We no b Igbo... Period!!!
Na so Igbo make Opobo and Bonny forget to speak their language (Ibani), come go speak Igbo, if not for just one community left still speaking Ibani... The legendary Finima community.

Funnicator:
Eze of Ogbaland?

Nonsense. How can there be an Eze in Rivers state. Igbo has nothing to do with Rivers state.

OP, change your title.

For your mind, Eze is only for Igbo's, go ask Oba of Benin if he was a Yoruba king.

Cultural assimilation is very complicated. It appears you do not have a full grasp of it. While it is true that groups like the Olukunmi were able to maintain their language (notice I did not say culture) - the reality is that throughout history MANY groups assimilate language-wise while others maintain most of their language. So the assimilation of the Ogbas would not be outside the realm of possibilities.

You would have to present examples in modern Nigeria, where such cultural assimilation occurred, without an imperial force to coerce it into being.

Edoid speaking smaller Engenni in Ahoada West and Edoid speaking smaller epie people in Bayelsa all conserved their Edoid languages, seeing as there was no empire to force alien Igbo language on them.

The reality is that there are no history of any non Igbo speaking group in Igboland assimilated into Igbo language, the Igbo run a clannish umunna system that makes it hard for an outside to partake in Igbo language or culture.

Are you sure this is impossible? Languages do go extinct and are replaced by the dominant language. Also, are you sure that there are no traces of Bini language in the tongue spoken by the Ogbas?

Languages go into extinction by conquest. When a superior group conquers an inferior one and imposes its language and culture on them over centuries.

This was how various tribes in modern Spain, Portugal and France were conquered by the Romans, who imposed their Language on them, leading to extinction of many ancient languages there and the evolution of pigeon Roman languages like French, Spanish, Portuguese, Etc, which is why we call them Romance languages.

In absence of a conquest, invasion and subjugation, human tend to hold unto their language, as we can see with the myriads of Languages existing in Cross River North senatorial zone, where it's said that you will almost see new language for each 20km traveled.

Everyword rooted in antiquity in Ogba is Igboid and not Edoid.

AkinPhysicist:


How does a full blooded African bear the name Victor Moses? Can you understand that?

bros, victor moses has his village dialect and it is not English, thats the difference. These people dont speak igbo as second language but their original first language. Hausa forced their language on many northern minorities but all of them speak their original language first and learn hausa when they grow up and mingle with the larger society, but in the case of rivers people, they speak igbo as first language and has no other language.

guiddomi:
For your mind, Eze is only for Igbo's, go ask Oba of Benin if he was a Yoruba king.

No no no,Oba is a Bini word not Yoruba, Oba was impose on Yorubas by Benin empire colonization of Lagos and migration of Bini prince Oduduwa to Ife.

DifferentBoy1:



We no b Igbo... Period!!!
Na so Igbo make Opobo and Bonny forget to speak their language (Ibani), come go speak Igbo, if not for just one community left still speaking Ibani... The legendary Finima community.

Opobo and Bonny had Many Igbo slaves who became natives there and continued speaking their Igbo languages, passing it down to their descendants.

No Igbo man left Anambra or Enugu to go and force Igbo language on Bonny or Opobo.
Be rational for once.

And for the records, no one is forcing Igbo identity on any one, you are either Igbo or you are not. Loyalty can't be forced.

MXrep:

bros, victor moses has his village dialect and it is not English, thats the difference. These people dont speak igbo as second language but their original first language. Hausa forced their language on many northern minorities but all of them speak their original language first and learn hausa when they grow up and mingle with the larger society, but in the case of rivers people, they speak igbo as first language and has no other language.

Also, Victor Moses parents were colonized by the British, who forced English language on them.

Question is, at what point did Ndiigbo colonize Ogba people, as to impose Igbo language on them?

Igboid:
Now, what if the name Akalaka changed over the years to sound more Igboid and less Biniad? Have you considered this possibility? Also, Akpa ohia might be an Igbo name but that does not negate the claim that Akalaka (his father) was a bini prince - after all Rotimi Amechi is not Yoruba yet bears a typical Yoruba name - this practice is a very old one.

[quote author=Igboid post=50588083] No such thing happened, as all thing rooted in antiquity in Ogbaland are all Igboid, it's unlikely Akalaka name changed over time. Nothing whatsoever on ground to support this hypothesis.

Thank you for saying unlikely and not impossible because by doing so you have admitted that there is indeed a possibility even from your own Igbo-centric point of view. And how do you know "nothing on ground support this hypothesis."? Are you on ground in Ogba? Are you a member of this tribe? Or are you are comparative researcher who specializes in Ogba culture or at the very least Nigerian culture? So there is no way for you to know with 100% certainty that "No such thing happened..."

Igboid:
No Bini Prince would be going by Igbo name, it can't happen in Modern Bini, it sure as hell couldnt have happened in Ancient Bini.

Are you sure? Human beings will go to almost any length for self preservation and even sometimes self advancement. It won't be the first time someone changes his/her name. Be careful of making universal statements like the above bolden they are almost by definition wrong on 'arrival.' In addition, we still have the possibility that his original Bini name is lost to history.

Igboid:

Bad example. Amaechi surname is Amaechi and his first name is Chibuike, his language is also Igboid, it takes no much rationality to notice that "Rotimi" is an anomaly, and to conclude that he is non Yoruba.

Amaechi senior who name his son Rotimi after the great SAN will disagree with you.

Igboid:

To run this hypothesis, you would have to present another Bini Prince in history with Igbo name, who isn't Igbo speaking.
Seeing as Rotimi is not Yoruba speaking.

Yet Victor Moses (a full-blooded African) is English-speaking. Try another argument.

Igboid:
Akalaka is not just an Igbo name, his Ogba clan is Igbo speaking.

What if the name is Igbo because his clan (as you call it) is Igbo speaking? How does that negate his Bini origin story?

RIP

Igboid:


Opobo and Bonny had Many Igbo slaves who became natives there and continued speaking their Igbo languages, passing it down to their descendants.

No Igbo man left Anambra or Enugu to go and force Igbo language on Bonny or Opobo.
Be rational for once.

And for the records, no one is forcing Igbo identity on any one, you are either Igbo or you are not. Loyalty can't be forced.

Hmmmmmmm

DEATH is INEVITABLE

DifferentBoy1:


Who told you that Oyigbo is Igbo, na so you deh thief?
Oyigbo is an Ogoni land the the asa people of abia took some lands from at times paste for residence but letter claimed to be the owners, giving rise to Igbos calling it Obigbo.
Go to Afam which is the heartland Of Oyigbo, you will see that they are Ogonis.

You are not serious. Oyigbo is only part of Rivers state because of the mammar Nasir boundary adjustment program of 1975 that carved out Oyigbo from old Imo state and added it to old Rivers, simply because oil was discovered in large commercial quantity in that part of old Imo state.

No Ogoni town in Oyigbo LGA, Ogoni in Tai LGA share boundary with Ndoki towns in Oyigbo. After the last clash between Tai people and Ndokis over Okoloama boundary they( Tai) had learnt their lessons and stayed clear off Oyigbo. Any Ogoni Man in Afam Ukwu or Afam nta, is staying there as a resident tenant.

MXrep:

bros, victor moses has his village dialect and it is not English, thats the difference. These people dont speak igbo as second language but their original first language. Hausa forced their language on many northern minorities but all of them speak their original language first and learn hausa when they grow up and mingle with the larger society, but in the case of rivers people, they speak igbo as first language and has no other language.

This is another argument. The argument I responded to was the suggestion that since Ogbas bear Ibo names then they HAVE TO BE Igbos. Hence I used the Victor Moses example (an African who bears a non-African name) to refute the claim. As per your argument - I lived in the north for almost a decade - I state authoritatively that there are many members of Northern minority tribes who do not speak a single word in their own dialect. The ONLY Nigerian language they know is Hausa (bastardized or pure). All am saying is that people should consider the possibility that similar thing happened to the Ogbas.

"Thank you for saying unlikely and not impossible because by doing so you have admitted that there is indeed a possibility even from your own Igbo-centric point of view. And how do you know "nothing on ground support this hypothesis."? Are you on ground in Ogba? Are you a member of this tribe? Or are you are comparative researcher who specializes in Ogba culture or at the very least Nigerian culture? So there is no way for you to know with 100% certainty that "No such thing happened..."

What you are suggesting is impossible. Ndiigbo were never empire builders, and as such, what you suggested was impossible.

No such things happened. As there are no rational evidence to prove otherwise.

Yes! Nothing on ground support such hypothesis. Everything rooted in antiquity in Ogbaland is Igboid and not Edoid.
There are many academic research on Ogba language and people by third parties. Non points towards Edo.

CandyDiamond:

No no no,Oba is a Bini word not Yoruba, Oba was impose on Yorubas by Benin empire colonization of Lagos and migration of Bini prince Oduduwa to Ife.

This is what some Bini people say. We Yorubas disagree. The title of King among the Binis has always been Ogiso. The title Oba was imported (together with Bini's very first Oba) by the Binis from Yorubaland.

Igboid:


Also, Victor Moses parents were colonized by the British, who forced English language on them.

Question is, at what point did Ndiigbo colonize Ogba people, as to impose Igbo language on them?

Colonialism is NOT the only route to cultural assimilation - this is Cultural Study 101.

"Yet Victor Moses (a full-blooded African) is English-speaking. Try another argument"

This argument is DOA.

Victor Moses parents gave him English and Jewish names because his Edo people were colonized by the British people who imposed English language and Christianity on them.

Unless you are able to prove that there existed an Igbo empire that conquered and imposed Igbo language and traditional worships and culture on Ogba, the above argument is at best a lame attempt.

Furthermore, Victor Moses parents and people don't speak English as first languages, they still have their own non English related first language.

DifferentBoy1:



We no b Igbo... Period!!!
Na so Igbo make Opobo and Bonny forget to speak their language (Ibani), come go speak Igbo, if not for just one community left still speaking Ibani... The legendary Finima community.

But take away Igbo from Nigeria, you shall be a slave to rest of Nigeria. Even the 13% derivation, they shall remove it, forcefully convert your people to that Arab religion.


You people survive Nigeria's ethnic politics at the shoulders of the Igbo.

Later you come to recount how you were liberated from the Igbo. But you hardly understand that those you call liberators fully colonized your brains, environmental and resources.
Abegggi, if you are truly from the southsouth. But I suspect that you are from the most SHOFISTIWRETCHED ethnic group in Nigeria near Benin Republic. They are the ones driven by divide and rule to speak like you.

AkinPhysicist:


How does a full blooded African bear the name Victor Moses? Can you understand that?

Yes I can understand that. What I wont undertand is when an entire community decides to adopt adopt English names and surnames. That is really strange. Why would Ogba people throw away their Bini names to adopt Igbo names? I would love for someone to explain that one to me

AkinPhysicist:


This is another argument. The argument I responded to was the suggestion that since Ogbas bear Ibo names then they HAVE TO BE Igbos. Hence I used the Victor Moses example (an African who bears a non-African name) to refute the claim. As per your argument - I lived in the north for almost a decade - I state authoritatively that there are many members of Northern minority tribes who do not speak a single word in their own dialect. The ONLY Nigerian language they know is Hausa (bastardized or pure). All am saying is that people should consider the possibility that similar thing happened to the Ogbas.

You as a Yoruba man bearing Yoruba names and speaking yoruba,are going to proudly say you are a Bini man. Leave Victor Moses or Goodluck Jonathan own they all have native names,they just choose to go with English names.

Are you sure? Human beings will go to almost any length for self preservation and even sometimes self advancement. It won't be the first time someone changes his/her name. Be careful of making universal statements like the above bolden they are almost by definition wrong on 'arrival.' In addition, we still have the possibility that his original Bini name is lost to history.

Why would Akalaka change his Edoid name to Igbo ones? What self preservation are you speaking of? There was no Igbo empire in SE out to assimilate Ogba, even Ogba Edoid neighbors, the Engennis and Epies all still retained their Edoid languages.

You are simply creating a scenario that never existed out of thin air, to support your stand. Not even Ogba people speak of a lost Bini name.

You are clearly fishing in shallow waters here.

It's just funny when people sit in the comfort of their homes and start spewing jagons, most peeps here just comment out of prejudice. So u all mean to tell that those communities bordering Imo state speak Latin abi? For your information after the war many communities in Rivers state denied their heritage. Don't worry when their oyel is finally finished and they being relegated to oblivion by then they will remember that they use to speak Igbo before o! Guys please try travel around southern states to get first hand info

"Amaechi senior who name his son Rotimi after the great SAN will disagree with you"



Amaechi Chibuike is an Igboid speaking man with a Yoruba middle name.
Akalaka was an Igbo speaking man with an Igbo name.

Apples and Oranges.
Who was the Igbo man named Akalaka that Akalaka supposedly Edo father named his son after? And to what end?
Edos in the era in discuss considered themselves more noble than Igbo speaking people who they lorded over in Anioma.

Igboid:

What you are suggesting is impossible. Ndiigbo were never empire builders, and as such, what you suggested was impossible.

You are still missing the point. A culture NEED NOT build empires to assimilate another culture.

Igboid:

No such things happened. As there are no rational evidence to prove otherwise.

How do you know? Have you ever studied the Ogba culture? How can you be sure there is no such evidence if you have not looked for it yourself? It appears you start with a conclusion (that the Ogbas are of Igbo origin) and isolate your thinking around that claim.

Igboid:

Yes! Nothing on ground support such hypothesis. Everything rooted in antiquity in Ogbaland is Igboid and not Edoid.
There are many academic research on Ogba language and people by third parties. Non points towards Edo.

Everything? Nobody with a basic knowledge of human culture will make such a claim. Think about it and thank me later.

gidgiddy:


Yes I can understand that. What I wont undertand is when an entire community decides to adopt adopt English names and surnames. That is really strange. Why would Ogba people throw away their Bini names to adopt Igbo names? I would love for someone to explain that one to me

It is not unheard of - it is called cultural assimilation.

AkinPhysicist:


This is what some Bini people say. We Yorubas disagree. The title of King among the Binis has always been Ogiso. The title Oba was imported (together with Bini's very first Oba) by the Binis from Yorubaland.

You have started defending your Yoruba side of view of oba,but you people will go about telling people that are Igbo that they are not Igbo,but if people say that Ileja,Owori,Egun that have their own languages are not Yorubas you people be shouting and coercing them to be Yorubas,any Igboid person is Igbo stop feigning ignorance and twisting facts.