When Jesus asked His disciples who He was.what did peter tell Him? After that,did Jesus ignored him or was happy with peter.guess many here are confused.our God is not a God of confusion but of saints in the church.JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD.WHY USE ONE VERSE OF THE BIBLE TO GO AGAINST ANOTHER.

First of all ,let me start with these two verses inother to warn those who manipulate the bible to suit their own natural standard instead of God's true standards.don't let the wrath of God fall upon u.Revelation chapter 22 vrs 18-19"FOR I TESTIFY UNTO EVERY MAN THAT HE THAT Heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,if any man shall add unto these things,GOD SHALL ADD UNTO Him the plagues that are written in this book(bible): And IF ANY MAN SHALL TAKE AWAY FRM THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY,GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE HOLY CITY,AND FROM THE Things which are written in this book.for nw i want to observe some responses b4 i really start.

If Jesus just a man and not firstborn of God .hw come do we use the name"JESUS" DURING PRAYER AND WHEN FACING STORMS OR ANY SPIRITUAL BATTLE. He Jesus is also God cos both are one.HMMm

ccollins:

If Jesus just a man and not firstborn of God .hw come do we use the name"JESUS" DURING PRAYER AND WHEN FACING STORMS OR ANY SPIRITUAL BATTLE. He Jesus is also God cos both are one.HMMm

My dear ccollins, just because we use the name 'Jesus' in any prayer at all does not prove anything about His deity. I know of a few religious belief systems that also use names of men in chanting or prayer - does that also mean that those men are thereby 'God' because their adherents pray or chant with their names? I believe that there are other cogent ways we could point to the Deity of Christ beyond just using His Name in prayer.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe he didnt read the thread through.

viaro I like the way you reply posts I want to drag a few answers out of you, do you mind?
oh by the way are you male or female?

'And remember the Day when the wrong doer will bite at his hands, he will say ,'oh ! Would i have taken the path of the messenger (Muhammad).

Ah ! Woe to me ! Would i have never taken so and so as an intimate friend.

He indeed led me astray from the reminder (Quran) after it had come to me.

And satan to man is ever a deserter in the hour of need'
Quran 25:27-29

Chrisbenogor:

viaro I like the way you reply posts I want to drag a few answers out of you, do you mind?
oh by the way are you male or female?

No, I don't mind. Male.

'And remember the Day when the wrong doer will bite at his hands, he will say ,'oh ! Would i have taken the path of the messenger (Muhammad).

Ah ! Woe to me ! Would i have never taken so and so as an intimate friend.

He indeed led me astray from the reminder (Quran) after it had come to me.

And satan to man is ever a deserter in the hour of need'
Quran 25:27-29

viaro:

No, I don't mind. Male.

The thread is open, see you there.

Chrisbenogor:

The thread is open, see you there.

Done.

viaro:

Deep Sight, howdy?

I have problems - serious problems - with people who make such kinds of remarks. I may not know a dot about Yoruba creation legends - even so, I can respect people whose cultures and outlook on life are different from mine. Asserting that they are outlandish and laughable probably puts the asserter in very poor light, especially because he makes such assertions ignorantly as an outsider that knows absolutely nothing about such cultures and is not even willing to know!

Yes, I am an educated adult - and I subscribe to a worldview that did not originate from my culture. But who says that anyone has to adopt only those views that are local to them anyway? If anyone - including you - cannot understand why educated people can believe in 'God' differently from the way you mold a concept of your own 'god', then what would they make of your own 'singularity' that repeatedly cheats common sense and science, and yet remains as v[/b]ague, [b]v[/b]alueless, [b]v[/b]acantly assertive, [b]v[/b]agrantly constructed, [b]v[/b]ariegated, [b]v[/b]ociferous, and frequently [b]v[/b]olte-face?? Your outlandish remark about 'yoruba'  is an insensate attack on the Yoruba people - and that needs no telling to an adult, let alone an educated one!

You may not believe in the views of other people as regards God; but you should be cautious in the way you charge blindly at them for their beliefs especially when your own assertive constructs for your 'God' is unrecognizable. What is even more laughable is the way you try to take a swipe at others when you have never had a good grasp of your own deification of a non-existent "singularity". Please Deep Sight, I did not expect you to lower yourself to that level, and I hope with fingers crossed that a change of attitude would be on the horizon.

Point taken. But i need to clarify that my swipe was [b]NOT at anything Yoruba, but at the trinity doctrine.

I understand that the Yoruba Myth talks about someone decending from heaven with a rope and a chicken and some sand. The chicken spread the sand about which became dry land, etc. Now it is clear that this is merely a folk tale, all i meant to state is that we modern Africans can see clearly that it is a folk-tale, whereas when equally outlandish tales are brought by foreigners, we accept them as inviolable truth.

I certainly did not intend to in any way speak ill of the yoruba, given that i am a core lagos-boy myself.

But Viaro, it will be a cold day in hell, before i respect the perception of any human being as being almighty God. Sounds to me like the claims of the followers of Olumba Olumba Obu, that he is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, almighty God.

_{P.S: God's existence is a deep and mysterious subject: its not surprising that someone like me who dares to approach and break it down in absorbable terms will sound absolutely incoherent to most listeners. I understand that.}

when ur grandma told u stories as a child, stories with morals, did you not learn from them? That something is myth does not make it meaningless. . .it could mean it has a surplus of meaning. Those stories were made up before writing. . . it was a way of passing wisdom from generation to generation in a way that was easy to remember. It isn't whether the story is true that matters, but the TRUTH in the story.

Deep Sight:

Point taken. But i need to clarify that my swipe was NOT at anything Yoruba, but at the trinity doctrine.

I can understand where you're coming from, and please don't take me seriously on my previous post.

I understand that the Yoruba Myth talks about someone decending from heaven with a rope and a chicken and some sand. The chicken spread the sand about which became dry land, etc. Now it is clear that this is merely a folk tale, all i meant to state is that we modern Africans can see clearly that it is a folk-tale, whereas when equally outlandish tales are brought by foreigners, we accept them as inviolable truth.

Well, pardon my ignorance of the Yoruba legend. Outlandish? I can't say. . since I don't know anything about it to be able to make any informed opinions. However, be that as it may, I wouldn't write them off like some unfit scrap for junk yard.

I certainly did not intend to in any way speak ill of the yoruba, given that i am a core lagos-boy myself.

I cannot apologise enough. . please pardon my mistake and misapprehension.

But Viaro, it will be a cold day in hell, before i respect the perception of any human being as being almighty God. Sounds to me like the claims of the followers of Olumba Olumba Obu, that he is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, almighty God.

That is one of the pivotal concerns that many non-Christians bear against the Christian faith - I dare say that even the most brilliant minds in Christendom cannot adequately digest and consequently explain the mystery of the Incarnation to others. Should someone else (like the example you gave) make the same claim to deity, that is his own world. Do I care two scoobies to argue with them? Nope. And even while I won't enter into any kind of apologetic polemics with them about their own claims to deity, I would seek more to understand my own worldview. Perhaps the only grounds where I might seriously engage them is when they try to hang their claims on the foundation of the Biblical faiths.

_{P.S: God's existence is a deep and mysterious subject: its not surprising that someone like me you who dares to approach and break it down in absorbable terms will sound absolutely incoherent to most listeners. I understand that.}

The bold - I agree.

^^^ I agree Krayola. But the Chicken spreading sand to form land is still a myth, like any other. But i take your point.

Deepsight,

You raise valid points but they are explanable, bear with me.

First off, Can God be man?

This question was addressed by Jesus when he alerted the Jews that "ye are gods".

Understand that God made man in his own image. Man is made up of water, blood and spirit. The last one - the spirit is not visible. For example, Mr. deepsight has a spirit within him that defines his real persona but I can see your body and form. Our being like God is actually because we have that invisible, indestructible part called spirit. At some point during pregnancy, the spirit inhabits the foetus. The spirit is life and sustains life. At death, the spirit leaves the body or the "prison", glad at last to be free. Spirit is the main resemblance to God. God incarnating as man means his own spirit living inside a housing or a body. Capish? In that respect Jesus was said to be the Emmanuel- God with us or God living amongst men!

Yes. God incarnates as man to fulfill a certain function on the earth plane. God can also be a fish, a snake or a tree. Since he is the creator, he can exist in everything he creates. That somehow explains his omnipresent nature. The bible tells us that a rock was christ and the holy spirit came as a dove. When discussing God do not limit him to your own imagination or understanding. God is both good and evil. He is everything.

Deep Sight:

Let me demonstrate the inanities that dogmas like the Trinity lead grown adults to indulge in:

Listen to this fellow:

Above he stated that Jesus is the "least" in the Trinity.

Then:, one second later he states -

Thus declaring that they are all equal, happily contradicting himself.

And also happily contradicting the words of Jesus himself, who stated that the Father is greater than him (Jn 14:28).

I hope you can all see what a joke this doctrine is. It astonishes me that educated adults will subscribe to a foreign myth such as this which is by far more outlandish and laughable than the yoruba creation myth.

Let me remind you lot that there have been triads of gods and goddesses in pagan religions in Egypt, Persia, and many other places for thousands of years and these ideas infiltrated christianity.

Let me also remind you lot that it is cardinal attribute of cults to attempt to deify their founders, or ascribe divinity to their leaders.

Sorry guys, i have to step into the loo, i think i'm gonna throw up.

Disgusting!

Jesus being Least in the Kingdom


This does not take away from his divinity. It goes to emphasizes the different levels of the Godhead. Christ said his father was greater than him, but recollect that his Father proclaimed his divinity by calling him God (Heb 1:6). Your brother can be called Deepsight as well but perhaps he is younger than you. I quite like pastor AIO analogy of imaging putting on different mask.


Tales affecting Christianity?


Are you insinuating that the story of Christ was fake? Apart from Bibilical source, the Bible story of Christ was corroborated by ancient Roman records of what happened when Ceaser became ill and asked the Roman Governor Pilate to send the young man called Jesus to heal him. Let me leave that for another discussion. But Christ is best experienced spiritually after you have accepted baptism ofthe Holy Spirit. No matter how many times you read the bible, your understanding will not be complete without the spirit teaching you.

Spiritually and physically I feel and know Christ. I have also tested different power and found that he Christ rules far above all. Perhaps you need a similar experience. I must warn though that it is God that does everything. If you were meant to know him, you will know him. Some of us humans have different spirits from different places , planets, etc, but untill we receive the spirit of God, we cannot have an accurate understanding of the Godhead.

Noetic -

This is the last of what you wrote Noetic: Note that sensing the insufficiency of your responses, you promised to "be right back", but never returned.

1. Mark 10:18
In the above verse Christ was addressing a random member of the multitude who came to ask a question. I say this because in mark 8:27-30 Jesus addressed another audience. This time the audience was the chosen few, who were privileged to be His disciples. He revealed His true identity to them here. The only time Jesus ever publicly revealed His true identity to a multitude, He was almost stoned to death John 8:58.
So when Jesus said in the above verse that only God is Good. . . . I believe that from my primordial post where I defined who God is. . . . .u now know who the God, Jesus was refering to is.

2. 1 timothy 2:5
your assertion with regards to this verse is best described as ignorance (no pun intended).
let us read what was said in verse 3 of the same chapter "For this good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour"
Paul calls God our saviour . . . . . . . Jesus died on the cross and resurrected,  . , He is as such the basis of SALVATION, He is the SAVIOUR.
So when Paul talks of a God, who offers salvation. . .he is refering to the saviour. . . .we all know who that is.

in analysing verse 5. . . Jesus is called a mediator. This is interesting.
I will use the holy spirit analogy in my primordial post to describe Jesus. remember I said that the holy spirit is the manifestation of God's power as evidenced at the point of creation and in the affairs of men. the holy spirit is not a person or spirit neither is he a being. . . . but is the direct manifestation of God's power and influence.
So when a person has the gifts of the spirit or manifests the fruits of the spirit, he is simply manifesting the God-like nature of a spirit filled God. God is a spirit and the Holy spirit is a manifestation of His power. The same applies to Jesus. If u read the bible, all of the ontological attributes of God belong to Jesus, this simply implies that Jesus is simply the physical manifestation of God, just like the holy spirit is the manifestation of God's power. . that explicably illustrates the divinity of Jesus. The bible attests to this in Acts 4:12. . . .refering to a salvation bearing name and 1 timothy2:3 calls the bearer of that salvation name GOD.

3. John 14:28

This verse has been cited by several people to assert that Jesus is not God or that He is inferior to God. My response has usually been that "Is God definite to be absent from heaven when present on earth" ?,  . . . ,

. .  . . . .more analysis to follow brb

I must state that these posts are escapist to say the least. You did no justice to Mark 10:18 AT ALL. Would Jesus really have actively discouraged any person from coming to the recognistion of his identity? Did he not repeatedly talk about belief in him? Why then would he try to discourage people from recognising him as God? This does not make any sense AT ALL. "Do not call me good: ONLY GOD is Good" - is more than sufficient evidence that he did not regard himself as God.

Regarding 1 timothy 2:5; recall that it not only refers to Jesus as mediator, but states :"the man" Jesus Christ.

I sincerely believe that you will agree with me that you have not even started to address John 14: 28.

Noetic, when there are so many verses in the Bible suggesting that Jesus IS NOT God, you certainly must excuse the skeptic when he doubts the deity of Christ, because the Bible itself says more to repudiate it than it does to encourage it!

Now i charge you to avert your mind to the prayer in gethsemane as i analysed it here:

The most spectacular of all his prayers, for me, is the statement in Gethsemane – “Nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt”

This statement shows something cardinal: if Jesus were God, as you lot like to claim, his will, and the will of the Father would be absolutely inseparable! This prayer shows clearly that the Father’s will could be different from Jesus’ will, when he says – “not as I will, but as thou wilt”. For me this is the most damning verse against the idea that Jesus is himself God. Because it shows a clear dichotomy of WILL between the father and the so called “son.” But I expect that in your usual fashion you will disregard Jesus’ own words in favour of your dogma.

In defending this, don’t you even dare bring up the lame line that it was his “human fear” that was speaking. Even mere mortals have shown great courage at the point of execution, or in battle, and you want to convince me that ALMIGHTY GOD, in human form, was not capable of stout hearted courage (especially when he was divine, and knew the purpose of his mission on the cross, and how sacred it was). Mere men have laid down their lives for their countries, happily and without asking for the cup to be removed from them. Gallantly! Now GOD himself, in human form, is not capable of such courage, to save his creatures?

I am definite that this prayer as analysed is the most damning piece in the Bible against the suggestion that Jesus is God!

Have at it!

when did u start being dishonest?

NOOOOEETIKKKYYYY!

What kind of escapist response is that? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Address my post jaaaaree!