peacesamuel94:



An impersonal creative force without reasoning capabilities, gave rise to Living things with reasoning capabilities, so from where did reason originate from?


That the creative force is impersonal suggests, that it had no motive behind its creation, hence reality, earth and universe has no essence. Then why did this creative force set up laws to govern what it has no intention of preserving.

God is just an "all encompassing" consciousness or energy. Now, this energy doesn't have a face or a character, and is not "offended", does not "take revenge" or anything like this. Its a force that exists within all beings, and this is the creative power. Its just a force. We can call it nature or life. Through this force, existence becomes possible, and this force doesn't love a jew better than all others, neither will it descend from the heavens to kill all those who oppose the jews. A
this force runs into all beings in existence, and we can parellel this to the Shakti energy of the Kundalini. For this reason, this is the energy of birth, existence, and the creative principle.

What happens in all creations when they "start existing" is that they are on the route to evolution. Evolution is a natural principle and happens over the milennia. As beings evolve, they can follow whatever route and end wherever. This force that creates, does not really co-ordinate everything in existence, and its not "God" in the sense humanity has been developed by the vile religious hoaxes to believe in.

In other words, this force is not in itself "Responsible" for things that we are responsible, because after a point, the Race of the Gods(advance extraterrestrials) who created us and altered our "normal" evolutionary process, have developed consciousness, control over, and mastery over this "force". This "force" is just potentiality and nothing else. What this is we cannot really relate in words, but what can be said, is that through meditation, one "re-connects" to "God" or this force. We can just call "God", nature. This is the most accurate thing. We cannot fight against, or have any reason to fight against "nature", but in the same time, we have to master nature and know the highest rules within it, in order to increase our existence, and evolve as species. This force runs inside everyone, like nature and everything that exists in the human being, but we are not aware of it since birth, as by design we fall between those who are aware of it all the time (Gods) and Humans, who came from monkeys with limited awareness.

All Pagan religions held the feminine force in high esteem, and this is for a reason, however, the Gods were put on a higher esteem than "Nature" or "God". Nature, while she was the "source" of every power, all these so called "powers" that can come from nature/shakti/mother Goddess, need an active user in order to be expressed. To put this into context, let's say someone has an amputee or a problem by their birth. Now, "Nature" cannot heal this problem. Through conscious awareness and persistence, and knowledge, it can be healed.

All this knowledge, capability, and these special powers, come through the increase of this "potentiality", applying it consciously to evolution and by undersanding the laws of nature. We are inseperate with "nature" and to claim that "nature/god" is outside of us, or is a jew sitting upon the clouds, ready to smite you for masturbating, is just jewish psychopathic paranoia. Only the jews lied to such extent in regards to these Truths. (Largely, because they never really understood these at all and in anyway.

knowyaself2:



God is just an "all encompassing" consciousness or energy. Now, this energy doesn't have a face or a character, and is not "offended", does not "take revenge" or anything like this. Its a force that exists within all beings, and this is the creative power. Its just a force. We can call it nature or life. Through this force, existence becomes possible, and this force doesn't love a jew better than all others, neither will it descend from the heavens to kill all those who oppose the jews. A
this force runs into all beings in existence, and we can parellel this to the Shakti energy of the Kundalini. For this reason, this is the energy of birth, existence, and the creative principle.

What happens in all creations when they "start existing" is that they are on the route to evolution. Evolution is a natural principle and happens over the milennia. As beings evolve, they can follow whatever route and end wherever. This force that creates, does not really co-ordinate everything in existence, and its not "God" in the sense humanity has been developed by the vile religious hoaxes to believe in.

In other words, this force is not in itself "Responsible" for things that we are responsible, because after a point, the Race of the Gods(advanced extraterrestrials) who created us and altered our "normal" evolutionary process, have developed consciousness, control over, and mastery over this "force". This "force" is just potentiality and nothing else. What this is we cannot really relate in words, but what can be said, is that through meditation, one "re-connects" to "God" or this force. We can just call "God", nature. This is the most accurate thing. We cannot fight against, or have any reason to fight against "nature", but in the same time, we have to master nature and know the highest rules within it, in order to increase our existence, and evolve as species. This force runs inside everyone, like nature and everything that exists in the human being, but we are not aware of it since birth, as by design we fall between those who are aware of it all the time (Gods) and Humans, who came from monkeys with limited awareness.

All Pagan religions held the feminine force in high esteem, and this is for a reason, however, the Gods were put on a higher esteem than "Nature" or "God". Nature, while she was the "source" of every power, all these so called "powers" that can come from nature/shakti/mother Goddess, need an active user in order to be expressed. To put this into context, let's say someone has an amputee or a problem by their birth. Now, "Nature" cannot heal this problem. Through conscious awareness and persistence, and knowledge, it can be healed.

All this knowledge, capability, and these special powers, come through the increase of this "potentiality", applying it consciously to evolution and by undersanding the laws of nature. We are inseperate with "nature" and to claim that "nature/god" is outside of us, or is a jew sitting upon the clouds, ready to smite you for masturbating, is just jewish psychopathic paranoia. Only the jews lied to such extent in regards to these Truths. (Largely, because they never really understood these at all and in anyway.

i don't think atheists will agree with you on this

peacesamuel94:



Do you believe that the universe came to exist by coincidence?

Coincidence with what?

[quote author=finofaya post=53372109]
Coincidence with what? [/quote

Do you believe the universe is of accidental origin.

[quote author=peacesamuel94 post=53372370][/quote]

Yes.

peacesamuel94:



i don't think atheists will agree with you on this

A few of them will get curious and try to follow this line of thought. Most will dismiss it as whatever they wish to call it. The mistake atheists make is that they ,on purpose, turn a blind eye to the spiritual in its entirety.

finofaya:


Yes.

One common thing about accidents is unpredictability and absence of organization. Accidents do not happen systematically.


If I were to agree with your ideology that the universe is of accidental origin, then it should be a fact that there's no logical reason why the universe should obey the same set of rules come rain come sun.


True, the universe behave in describable ways which we refer to as laws, but why should the laws remain consistent, why must 24 hours remain 24 hours, if the universe came into existence by no ones handiwork, then it should be able to disappear in the same manner.


The atheistic version of the universe is the one not governed by consistent laws, and that is not predictable.

knowyaself2:

A few of them will get curious and try to follow this line of thought. Most will dismiss it as whatever they wish to call it. The mistake atheists make is that they ,on purpose, turn a blind eye to the spiritual in its entirety.

I presume you are a deist, well For now, the target of the Op is atheists.

peacesamuel94:
One common thing about accidents is unpredictability and absence of organization. Accidents do not happen systematically.

If I were to agree with your ideology that the universe is of accidental origin, then it should be a fact that there's no logical reason why the universe should obey the same set of rules come rain come sun.

True, the universe behave in describable ways which we refer to as laws, but why should the laws remain consistent, why must 24 hours remain 24 hours, if the universe came into existence by no ones handiwork, then it should be able to disappear in the same manner.

The atheistic version of the universe is the one not governed by consistent laws, and that is not predictable.

Accidents do not happen systematically? That's meaningless bro. An accident is merely something unplanned, a chance occurence. An example of one is an unplanned pregnancy due to failure of contraception. Such a pregnancy will proceed like every other pregnancy, despite being an accident. The laws of physics do not breakdown for it or for any other accident. The universe being an accident simply means that it is unplanned and nothing more.

I don't think the rules that the universe obeys are a matter of logic. I believe the universe is free to obey any type of physical law, including one which forbids consistency. It's hard to imagine what such a universe will look like but I can't preclude the possibility. Like I said earlier, it is irrelevant that such a universe is uncaused.

In any event, you just might be living in such an inconsistent universe. The rules could change anyday, for all we know.

wirinet:


Atheism actually started in the hellenistic period, when Greek intellectuals started questioning the existence of the Greek gods. Prior to that almost every culture believed gods were responsible for all natural phenomena, so much so that every natural phenomena and celestial objects were attributed to different gods.

For the fact that close to 5% of the world population today are atheists seems extraordinary. People are becoming atheist without any threats, persuations or evangelism. Most of the people turning to atheists were previously theist who on their own discovered the deceit and lies of theism.

You seem to be hiding under the security of numbers. The fact that about 30% of the world population believes in your Jewish tribal god does not mean jack. The Jewish tribal god is a very violent god, and its adherents had been spreading its beliefs through threats, violence and intimidation for over 2000 years. Its rival Arabic tribal god (Islam), which started about 600 years later and also using the same methods of violence and intimidation has gathered up to 1.6 billion adherrents (22%) of the real world population.

sorry to bust your bubble but atheism was spread by totalitarian communism in China and the USSR,read up on Mao cultural revolution,belskiviks revolution in Russia 1917 or so,do get back to me,their also cases of it spreading freely like in western Europe and Japan and other places but majority of the world atheist live in China and hell well,we know their story,you accuse one of violence and turn a blind eye to yours

finofaya:


Accidents do not happen systematically? That's meaningless bro. An accident is merely something unplanned, a chance occurence. An example of one is an unplanned pregnancy due to failure of contraception. Such a pregnancy will proceed like every other pregnancy, despite being an accident. The laws of physics do not breakdown for it or for any other accident. The universe being an accident simply means that it is unplanned and nothing more.

I don't think the rules that the universe obeys are a matter of logic. I believe the universe is free to obey any type of physical law, including one which forbids consistency. It's hard to imagine what such a universe will look like but I can't preclude the possibility. Like I said earlier, it is irrelevant that such a universe is uncaused.

.

When you come across a gigantic architectural masterpiece, You do not in the slightest chance think that it came to be by accident, without anybody's handiwork. Your first line of thought revolves around the brains behind the design and construction of the edifice. But yet you believe so easily that something as complex as the universe came to be all by itself, really nice.





In any event, you just might be living in such an inconsistent universe. The rules could change anyday, for all we know



The earth alone debunks this, 4.5 billion+ years of existence is enough for the rules to change if it wanted to.

peacesamuel94:
When you come across a gigantic architectural masterpiece, You do not in the slightest chance think that it came to be by accident, without anybody's handiwork. Your first line of thought revolves around the brains behind the design and construction of the edifice. But yet you believe so easily that something as complex as the universe came to be all by itself, really nice.

I think God is part of the universe. But even if it isn't, the universe + God is definitely more complex than just the universe alone, since apparently complex things must not come from simpler things. So I guess it's really nice that you believe so easily that something as complex as the universe + God came to be all by itself. Lol. You have digressed from your OP now tho.

The earth alone debunks this, 4.5 billion+ years of existence is enough for the rules to change if it wanted to.

If it wanted to change within such a time frame, you mean.

My point is that in this your hypothetical universe where no rule is consistent you cannot predict the time frame within which the rules change since such a prediction requires some degree of consistency which the universe lacks. The rules can therefore take forever to change if that is what they want.

I'm not saying we live in such a universe though.

[quote author=finofaya post=53392786]

I think God is part of the universe. But even if it isn't, the universe + God is definitely more complex than just the universe alone, since apparently complex things must not come from simpler things. So I guess it's really nice that you believe so easily that something as complex as the universe + God came to be all by itself.


wrong, I don't believe God + the universe came to existence, Here, coming to existence only applies to the universe, God has always been in existence..... He is eternal.




Lol. You have digressed from Your Op tho.


No I have not, its all part of the topic.

[quote author=peacesamuel94 post=53394301][/quote]

An eternal God + temporal universe is still more complex than an eternal universe alone.

finofaya:


An eternal God + temporal universe is still more complex than an eternal universe alone.

too complex to exist, or too complex for you to believe.

peacesamuel94:




too complex to exist, or too complex for you to believe.

You raised complexity, not me. You said the universe is too complex to exist by itself. My argument is that God is even more complex than the universe and therefore a universe with God is a bigger complexity than one without God. If complexity alone is what stops things from existing by their own power, and a universe is too complex to exist by its own power, then a universe with God being so much more complex than one without God is also too complex to exist on its own. That's the implication of the complexity you raised.

The complexity is for you, not me.

finofaya:


You raised complexity, not me. You said the universe is too complex to exist by itself. My argument is that God is even more complex than the universe and therefore a universe with God is a bigger complexity than one without God. If complexity alone is what stops things from existing by their own power, and a universe is too complex to exist by its own power, then a universe with God being so much more complex than one without God is also too complex to exist on its own. That's the implication of the complexity you raised.

The complexity is for you, not me.

Like I said before, God is not a component or part of the universe, He exists independent of the universe because he is Immaterial.

God created the universe, is different from God exist in the universe. So its not adding to the complexity.

peacesamuel94:



Like I said before, God is not a component or part of the universe, He exists independent of the universe because he is Immaterial.

God created the universe, is different from God exist in the universe. So its not adding to the complexity.

You're not quite addressing my point. Look at it this way: God exists in its own universe and we exist in ours. The two universes combined are more complex than one alone without God. That's the gist of what I'm saying.

finofaya:


You're not quite addressing my point. Look at it this way: God exists in its own universe and we exist in ours. The two universes combined are more complex than one alone without God. That's the gist of what I'm saying.

The only universe here is the one we exist in, God doesn't live in a universe, because it is material, and He is Immaterial.

But since you are an atheist, who doesn't believe in spirits then I expect that you will only view this from the physical perspective.

peacesamuel94:



The only universe here is the one we exist in, God doesn't live in a universe, because it is material, and He is Immaterial.

But since you are an atheist, who doesn't believe in spirits then I expect that you will only view this from the physical perspective.

I am assuming that God exists and it does so in an immaterial universe. Universe here means the place or state God exists in, that is the place from whence you say it created this universe. You can refer to this place by any name you find suitable.

In any event the question we are concerned with is existence and it applies to both the material and immaterial. This universe and God are both things which exist so if you say complexity has an effect on the way things exist, naturally this effect has to apply to all things that exist.

As a result God cannot escape your alleged problem of complexity.

finofaya:


I am assuming that God exists and it does so in an immaterial universe. Universe here means the place or state God exists in, that is the place from whence you say it created this universe. You can refer to this place by any name you find suitable.

In any event the question we are concerned with is existence and it applies to both the material and immaterial. This universe and God are both things which exist so if you say complexity has an effect on the way things exist, naturally this effect has to apply to all things that exist.

As a result God cannot escape your alleged problem of complexity.

You are still judging from the physical perspective, I guess I'll have to stop here, cause we will end up going in circles.

peacesamuel94:



You are still judging from the physical perspective, I guess I'll have to stop here, cause we will end up going in circles.

Lol. You're making that up, but okay.

been viewing in ghost mode first timer here though