Scientist who dug into hell in Siberia and recorded the cries of the damned souls

.Is this possible biblically?
Yes it is possible. The bible says in the book of Amos 9:2
“Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, whence I bring them down.” – KJV
So it is possible to dig into hell according to the above verse
Dr. Azzacove’s report to a Finnish newspaper
It is said that a man reported to a Finnish newspaper, ammenusastia, that they had dug into hell and recorded the cries of damned souls. The man who reported to the newspaper, Dr. Azzacove, was one of the scientists who were drilling the Kola superdeep borehole in Siberia, Russia at the time the cries were recorded by use of a special microphone designed to detect tectonic plate movements. The microphone was lowered down through the shaft of the drilling equipment.
The article

The story went as follow
The following article appeared in the well respected Finland newspaper, Ammenusastia
“As a communist I don’t believe in heaven or the Bible but as a scientist I now believe in hell,” said Dr. Azzacove. “Needless to say we were shocked to make such a discovery. But we know what we saw and we know what we heard. And we are absolutely convinced that we drilled through the gates of hell!“

Dr. Azzacove continued, “. . . the drill suddenly began to rotate wildly, indicating that we had reached a large empty pocket or cavern. Temperature sensors showed a dramatic increase in heat to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit.”

“We lowered a microphone, designed to detect the sounds of plate movements down the shaft. But instead of plate movements we heard a human voice screaming in pain! At first we thought the sound was coming from our own equipment.”

“But when we made adjustments our worst suspicions were confirmed. The screams weren’t those of a single human, they were the screams of millions of humans!”
You can listen to the audio file here
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/sounds/sounds_from_hell.mp3
A search in the internet reveals very little about Dr. Azzacove. In the internet you find many people refuting this story and others especially those who believe in the bible supporting it. It is not easy to verify the story except if we can trace Dr. Azzacove or at least some of the scientists who were at the site at the time the event is said to have occurred. Anyone who has not done this should not try to convince us that the story is a mere hoax.



That is why I will also not confirm to you that the story is true or not because I have not met any of these scientists. The verdict is yours.





The sound clip investigated scientifically





A team of investigators from Singapore, known as Singapore paranormal investigators went a step further by investigating whether indeed the cries from the recordings were authentic or faked. They analyzed the sound clip scientifically and concluded that the sounds could be authentic but also could be fake and that it was not possible to conclude that the sounds were from hell or not though it could possibly be. This implies that they did not dismiss the sound clip as fake. If they could have done that, the story could have ended there.




In order to test whether the hell sound clip is authentic or fake the, Kenny, the SPI agent who carried out the experiment, put the sound clips under test by using a sound frequency analysis software program called AnalFreq Spectrum Analyzer Ver.1.8 by



Loyola University, Chicago.




The conclusion made from the experiment is quoted below:


“Our conclusion is, either it is true that the voices are from hell but the souls were shouting constantly at about the same tones, same volume and at about the same intervals, or somebody just mixed several voices to achieve this effect. If the answer were the latter, then he succeeded very well in blending many screams together. But the frequencies are too regular and the tones are too rigid.


So what do you believe, it truly came from hell or somebody is playing a hoax?
We like to hear your opinion.”

(Singapore paranormal investigators, “investigations into sounds of hell”)
More Account of Hell coming soon

Think about it. You are lying on your death bed with no hope of ever recovering. Your legs start becoming cold and somehow you fear that you are about to die. Doctors have already left your room. Then suddenly, your soul separates with the body for that is what happens at death. You are not aware that you are dead, for you find yourself in a much better condition than before. You realize that you can see, hear, feel, smell and taste much better than before. There is light in the room and you can see at an angle of 3600.



You look at the bed and see yourself lying there and start wondering what is going on. You fear that the worst has happened, that you are now dead. There is no way you can go back to the body. Before you even ponder about it, you hear an ugly voice calling you outside. Even before you make out what is going on, you start a swift descent towards a place you do not know. It gets darker and darker and you discover that whatever is happening to you is of no good at all.



You are in a very dark tunnel and the speed at which you are moving is very high. You start complaining that you do not want to go that way but there is nothing you can do about it. Suddenly you hear a voice “you deserve to be here!”



You can now sense the smell of burning flesh and indeed see the flames of fire burning. The smell is horrible and unbearable. You hear cries and wails of millions of tormented souls. You discover that you are in hell and worst of all also discover that you deserve to be there for you are aware of how you have lived your life on earth.



Somehow Jesus brings you back to life so that you can tell the testimony or simply gives you a second chance.



However, do know that those who go to hell and back are very few. Most of those who go there never come back. They remain there for eternity, according to the bible.



All this are excerpt from different source. More coming soon
The Question is What is your stand on HELL?
Why do people love saying GO TO HELL and not GO TO HEAVEN?
You need to ask queation

Heaven is real, hell is real ... Lord help me, I don't want to go to hell

[size=20pt][center]RONALD REAGAN’S TESTIMONY Of HELL [/center][/size]



The following is a testimony of Ronald Reagan telling of how he went to hell and back. The story has been extracted from Dr. Rawlings documentary “To hell and back” as posted in the website http://www.spiritlessons.com

His wife, Elaine Reagan also tells us about the ordeal.


In 1972 my life was broken. I was a drug addict. I was a criminal. My family was broken. My wife had filed for divorce a couple of times. My children were afraid of me. I really couldn’t hold a job, my mental state was terrible. It was in this frame of life that I took my 6 year old son to a little market to purchase some things. On the way in, I met a gentlemen coming out the door. An argument erupted and before I knew it I had hit him and knocked him down. He fell into a pile of bottles. The bottle broke and immediately he leaped up with a broken bottle and began to stab at me. I lifted my left arm to try to stop the blow, and the bottle severed my biceps muscle & the major arteries in my arm. I was bleeding to death in a matter of seconds. But full of anger, hatred and rage, I kept fighting and it kept bleeding. My little son was screaming, he was hysterical.

The owner of the 7-11 store came over and said that if I didn’t get to a hospital, I’ll would bleed to death in just a few minutes. So he took me in my own car to the hospital. When we entered the emergency room, I was barely conscious. As the medical staff began to work on me, I could hear their voices, they were saying, “We can’t help him. He’ll have to be transported to another hospital. Probably we’ll loose the arm.” By the time they loaded me into the ambulance, my wife had arrived and went with us in the ambulance. But as they pulled out of the parking lot of that hospital, a young paramedic looked down into my face, and I could barely see I was so weak. He said “Sir, you need Jesus Christ” But I didn’t know Jesus, I didn’t know what he was talking about, so my reaction to that was to begin cursing. And again he stated to me, “You need Jesus!”

As he was talking to me, it appeared that the ambulance literally blew up in flames. I though it had actually blown up. It filled with smoke and immediately I was moving through that smoke, as if through a tunnel. After some period of time, coming out of the smoke and out of the darkness I began to hear the voices of a multitude of people. They were screaming, groaning and Crying. But as I was looking down, it appeared like a volcanic opening. I saw fire, smoke and people inside of this burning place. They were screaming and crying, they were burning, but they weren’t burning up, they weren’t being consumed. Then I began moving downward into this opening.

[Wife, Elaine Reagan]


He was thrashing, just thrashing about, moaning and groaning. It was like a battle was going on. I wasn’t a Christian at the time, and I didn’t know anything about spiritual battles. But it was scary to me because I could feel it. It was like light and darkness. It was like he was fighting against something. I didn’t know what, but now I know, he was seeing the vision of hell.

[Ronald Reagan]


But the terrible thing was that I began to recognize many of the people that were in these flames. It was like a camera lens was showing me their faces, close up. I could see their features, I could see their agony, pain and frustration. A number of them began to call my name, and said “Ronny, don’t come to this place, there is no way out. There is no escape if you come here, no way out.”

I looked into the face of one man who had died in a robbery attempt, he had been shot and bleed to death on the sidewalk. I looked into the face of two others who had died drunk in an automobile accident. I looked into the face of others who had died of drug overdoses, that we partied together. They showed agony and pain, but I believe that the most painful part was the loneliness. The depression was so heavy, that there was no hope, no escape, there was not way out of this place. The smell was like sulfur, like an electric welder, the stench was terrible.

In my life, I had seen people killed, I had been involved in fights where people were killed. I’ve done time in prison for manslaughter. I grew up in a reform school, and in a jail cell. I was beat unmercifully as a child by a father that had temper and alcohol problems. I was a runaway at 12 years old and I felt that there was nothing in this world that could frighten me. My life was wrecked, my marriage was wrecked, my health was wrecked. But now I was seeing something that scared me to death, because I didn’t understand it. And as I am looking into this pit, this place of fire, screams and torment, I fade out into blackness.

When I opened my eyes, I was in a hospital room in Knoxville; Tennessee with my wife is sitting by. There had been multiple stitches put into my body, my arm was spared. I had almost 100 stitches. I looked into the face of my wife. I wasn’t concerned about where I was, or anything around me. All I could visualize was what I had just seen.

[Elaine Reagan]


He had this funny look on his face, and it was a terrifying look. And he said, “I don’t really know what’s happening to me, but I’ve been in a terrible place.” And I kept telling him “you’ve been in the hospital, you’ve been in the hospital all this time.” And he kept saying, “No, I’ve been in another place. I don’t know exactly what is was, but it was a terrible, terrible place.“

[Ronald Reagan]


I could still hear the screams. I could still smell the terrible smell. I could still feel the heat, and I could still hear the voices of people that I’ve known screaming for me to go back. Through the days to come, I tried every way to get that out of my mind. I tried to get drunk, I could not get drunk. I tried to get stoned, I could not get stoned, I tried everything that I could to get this off my mind and I could not.

One morning, several months later, I came home to where my wife was. I had been trying to get drunk, but I couldn’t. When I walked in the house and went back to the bedroom, the light was on. My wife was sitting up in bed, and she had a large book open on her lap. She looked up at me and her face was literally shining. And she said, “Ronny, tonight I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior,”

She didn’t have to say a lot to me, our life had been filled with agony. She grew up in Chicago; her father was a bartender on the South side of Chicago. She knew nothing about God, or church or religion. The pain in her face, the wrinkles that I gave her from my abuse, violence, alcoholism, and drug addiction. Sometimes I would be gone for months of time, and she and the kids would have no idea where I was. But now her face had changed. The wrinkles were literally were gone, a smile had replaced the sorrow and agony. She looked at me and said, “Jesus saved me tonight. Would you go with me and hear about this man called Jesus.” I though to myself, “I tried everything else in life, nothing has worked for me. The people I love the most, my wife, my children, I’m terrible to them.” So I agreed to go with her.

A couple of weeks later on a Sunday morning, November 2, 1972, just before 12 am, a minister stood to read from the bible. I was sitting in the back of the building, I didn’t know anything out of the bible. I didn’t know how to act to church. But the minister stood to read from the bible, and he read from the Gospel of John. He began to read these words “behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.” When he said “the Lamb” he had my attention. It wouldn’t have meant anything to me, any other passage, but when he mentioned “the Lamb” he had this hard hearted sinner’s attention.

Because when I was 9 years old, a very poor child in the mountains of eastern Tennessee, with a father who only knew anger, abuse and alcohol, a neighbor had given me a baby lamb. And I had to walk two miles to catch the school bus. One day coming through her yard she stopped me and said, “Son I have a gift for you” and she showed me this baby lamb.

I took that lamb home with me, it was my friend, the only friend I felt like I had. It was such a friend, in the days and weeks to come it followed me, and it would meet me when I got off the school bus. It came walking through the woods and fields to meet me.

One evening as I came home, the lamb was missing. I heard my father cursing and screaming, he was working on an old model car, changing a flat tire by hand, the old way. I tried to walk around him because I didn’t want to be cursed. I tried to bypass him, but when I got on the other side of the car, I looked down and there was my lamb with blood all over the white wool. There was a tire rod sticking in its body.

The lamb had come around just wanting to be curious, and in a drunken fit of anger, my father had plunged the tire iron though that lamb.

When I saw my lamb, my friend, dead, I began to scream. I ran into the woods screaming, “he’s killed my lamb, he’s killed the lamb!”

At 9 years old, hatred and violence took my life, possessed my life. From that point on, I was never ever the same. By 12 years old I was a runaway. I was in the Juvenile system, arrested time after time. I had no respect for authority. I hated anyone that represented authority over me. By the time I was 15 years old, I had been in Jail for car theft, for stealing. At 15 years old I was sentenced for manslaughter; being involved in a car accident that had killed some and left others crippled. At that time I wondered if life would ever hold anything for me.

But when that minister mentioned “The Lamb” he had my attention. He said that Jesus Christ was God’s lamb, and He died and shed His blood so that whosoever wants to, can have a new start. They could be forgiven and start over.

That morning, as I stood to try to leave the building, I thought, “I don’t want anybody to see me cry. I haven’t cried since I was 9 years old. I’m not afraid of any living thing on this Earth, and no one is going to see me cry.”

I turned to leave, but instead I started down the isle toward the front of that building. I didn’t know the sinners prayer, I didn’t know the Roman road of salvation. But my prayer was this, “God, if You exist, and Jesus, if You are God’s lamb, please, please kill me or cure me. I don’t want to live anymore, I’m not a husband, I’m not a father, I’m no good.” And at that instant, it was like the darkness and the blackness left my life. Then the tears began to flow and for the first time since I was 9 years old, the tears did run. The guilt left my life, the violence, anger and the hatred left my life. And Jesus Christ became Lord and savior of my life that morning.

Since that time I didn’t know what would happen. God healed my mind, my memory, the drug addiction; the alcoholism was instantaneously gone, delivered. And for that moment I knew I had to tell the story of what had happened to me. My life was only spared to tell others about the place that I had seen, and the hope of Jesus Christ to save mankind from this terrible fate.



Reference:

Rawlings Maurice, “documentary on near death experiences”, www.spiritlessons.com, retrieved 17th April 2011, http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documents/Rawlings/Dr_Rawlings_Near_Death_Experiences.htm

OP... your “hell digging" belief by scientists isn't only laughable but also quite ridiculous. pls go online and look for the real story behind the digging the earth voices of hell stuff... also.. you're being biased.. you only chose the near death experience that show a burning hell.. yet you ignored the overwhelming unmistakable majority that show that hell is different from what you're stating above.. if you've done research on near death experiences about hell, you'd know that a relatively high percentage of hell near death experiences don't show fire. do your research.. it helps

...........

@ Op, the real story behind this thing was that somebody jokingly sent that information to a radio station, and surprisingly, the radio station made it public without verifying the claim. The person who sent it later apologised for misleading the whole world, but already, the story has converted thousands of people into Christianity. That was a miracle!!!
CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY COMES THROUGH LIES AND THE FEAR OF HELL FIRE. TAKE HELL FIRE AWAY FROM YAHWEH(SATAN) AND HARDLY WILL YOU SEE ANYONE WORHSIPPING HIM TODAY.

:
‘Are you the one who sent information to a Christian television network in the United States about scientists drilling into hell?’ I asked.

‘Yes,’ he said without hesitation.

‘Well,’ I continued, ‘Do you have any way of knowing whether it is true?’

‘Yes I do,’ he replied.

‘Tell me about it,’ I asked.

‘None of it is true,’ he said. ‘I fabricated every word of it!’

Rendalen went on to explain that he had visited the US a few weeks earlier and had seen the host of a Christian television program enthusiastically relating the Drilling to Hell story. He told me: ‘I couldn’t believe that the hosts really thought the story was true and that they would broadcast it without apparently having checked it out.’

When he returned to Norway, Rendalen sat down and fabricated the graphic story of the bat-like creature and sent his letter to the television network. His prediction was that they would use the story without investigating it. To make an investigation easy for them, he included his name, address and telephone number on his letter. He also included what he claimed was an article on the story from ‘Norway’s largest and most reputable newspaper’. In fact, the article, which he falsely translated, was a piece in his local community paper about a building inspector.

Rendalen also included the name and telephone number of a pastor friend based in Southern California. This pastor knew about the hoax and was prepared to reveal the truth if someone called to research it further with him.

However, as predicted, Trinity Broadcasting Network ran the story without contacting Renalden or the Californian pastor, and it appeared on television, radio and in a large number of publications. None of those who used the story attempted to research it before going public.

‘2000 PEOPLE HAVE FOUND CHRIST!’

On 6th February 1990, a listener of mine sent me a letter. She had videotaped and documented all three occasions when this story was discussed on the Christian TV show put out by the network. On 29th January 1990, the show host is documented as saying:

https://www.truthorfiction.com/drilltohellfacts/

Op I once heard this story but I never checked it out.
I heard it when I was in the shackles of the prison called Christianity.
One of the unspoken rules of that prison is to accept everything that strengthens your belief and never ever ever ask questions or scrutinize any faith strengthening story.

This thread just reminded me of it and in less than 5 minutes of googling it I found out that it was a popular hoax known as the "well to hell hoax".

The funny thing is that many christards are stuck in that mental prison without realizing that 5 minutes of research can debunk such lies. For Christianity as a whole, I will say one month of careful research can bring the walls crumbling down.

otemanuduno:
@ Op, the real story behind this thing was that somebody jokingly sent that information to a radio station, and surprisingly, the radio station made it public without verifying the claim. The person who sent it later apologised for misleading the whole world, but already, the story has converted thousands of people into Christianity. That was a miracle!!!
CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY COMES THROUGH LIES AND THE FEAR OF HELL FIRE. TAKE HELL FIRE AWAY FROM YAHWEH(SATAN) AND HARDLY WILL YOU SEE ANYONE WORHSIPPING HIM TODAY.


https://www.truthorfiction.com/drilltohellfacts/

apart from the Yahweh worshipping part, i totally agree with you. even Wikipedia has concrete info on the myth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well_to_Hell_hoax

truth be told, the fear of hell is the reason why some people choose to serve God.. they're not serving him in actual sense.. they're just running from a place that might not even exist

even Jesus said a time will come when people will worship in spirit and in truth.. many Christians worship due to fear of hell.. i don't fear hell.. not even a little bit.. cuz according to good research and NDE's... it doesn't seem to have a firm existence.. even if i just ceased to exist after death, i would still choose to worship Yahweh... cuz really.... i have nothing to lose if i do

LiberaDeus:
Op I once heard this story but I never checked it out.
I heard it when I was in the shackles of the prison called Christianity.
One of the unspoken rules of that prison is to accept everything that strengthens your belief and never ever ever ask questions or scrutinize any faith strengthening story.

This thread just reminded me of it and in less than 5 minutes of googling it I found out that it was a popular hoax known as the "well to hell hoax".

The funny thing is that many christards are stuck in that mental prison without realizing that 5 minutes of research can debunk such lies. For Christianity as a whole, I will say one month of careful research can bring the walls crumbling down.

bro... if i may ask.. are you talking about the kind of Christianity Jesus told us to emulate or just mainstream Christianity.. ?

[size=20pt]The word Hell in the Bible [/size]
The word “hell” is found 54 times in the King James Bible. It is translated from several different words with various meanings as indicated below:

In the Old Testament:
31 times from the Hebrew “Sheol,” which means “the grave”

In the New Testament:
10 times from the Greek “Hades,” which means “the grave”
12 times from the Greek “Gehenna,” which means “a place of burning”
1 time from the Greek “Tartarus,” which means “a place of darkness”

“Tartarus” is used once, in 2 Peter 2:4, and means “a place of darkness or restraint.” “Tartarus” is where Satan and his demons reside now. It isn’t a place of punishment or flames.

“Gehenna” means a place of fire, brimstone, and punishment (see Matthew 5:29-30, described in Matthew 13:40-42 and 2 Peter 3:7.) Note these flames are still in the future at the end of the world.

“Hades” means “the grave” (Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 20:14). The body of Jesus rested there and His saints are resting there now awaiting the resurrection.

The Greek word “Hades” is translated as “Hell” in many English Bibles such as the King James Version. In Revelation 6:8, the King James Version refers to “Death and Hell.” It does the same in Revelation 20:14. Yet some English Bibles use the word “Hades” itself, such as the New International Version, which translates both Revelation 6:8 and 20:14 as “Death, and Hades.” Now here is the point; In Revelation 20:14 “Hades” is eventually “cast into the lake of fire.” So as you can therefore see, “Hades” itself is not a fiery place, but is cast into “the lake of fire.”

So Biblically speaking, Hades means the grave. This is easy to prove from 1 Corinthians 15:55, which in the King James Version states, “O death, where is thy sting? O grave [Hades], where is thy victory?” If you look in the Strong’s dictionary, you will find that the Greek word here translated “grave” is “Hades.” By looking at the context, it is obvious that it means “the grave” because it is God’s saints who rise out of “Hades” when Jesus Christ returns. See 1 Corinthians 15:50-55. Therefore, “Hades” cannot mean a place of burning, for who can imagine God’s people writhing in flames as they await the resurrection? That would be absolutely ludicrous! Additional proof this word means “the grave” is the fact that “Hades” was the place Christ’s body rested right after His death. Acts 2:31 reads, “His [Christ’s] soul was not left in hell [Hades] neither [did] his flesh see corruption.”

Wilgrea7:


apart from the Yahweh worshipping part, i totally agree with you. even Wikipedia has concrete info on the myth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well_to_Hell_hoax

truth be told, the fear of hell is the reason why some people choose to serve God.. they're not serving him in actual sense.. they're just running from a place that might not even exist

even Jesus said a time will come when people will worship in spirit and in truth.. many Christians worship due to fear of hell.. i don't fear hell.. not even a little bit.. cuz according to good research and NDE's... it doesn't seem to have a firm existence.. even if i just ceased to exist after death, i would still choose to worship Yahweh... cuz really.... i have nothing to lose if i do

Yeah, we should not serve God because we fear Hell but we should serve him for his supremacy becausePhilippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Wilgrea7:


bro... if i may ask.. are you talking about the kind of Christianity Jesus told us to emulate or just mainstream Christianity.. ?

I am talking about the Christianity that your holy bible prescribed for you.
The Jesus story with all the miracles, fables, death and resurrection was derived from your bible.
Mainstream Christianity derives from the bible too but like all institutions, adaptation and evolution occurs .

Please let's not differentiate them, whether it's what Jesus told you to emulate it mainstream, Christianity is a body of combined belief systems that uses the bible as its sole authority

LiberaDeus:


I am talking about the Christianity that your holy bible prescribed for you.
The Jesus story with all the miracles, fables, death and resurrection was derived from your bible.
Mainstream Christianity derives from the bible too but like all institutions, adaptation and evolution occurs .

Please let's not differentiate them, whether it's what Jesus told you to emulate it mainstream, Christianity is a body of combined belief systems that uses the bible as its sole authority

I've spent 6 months doing research... I actually found out that the kind of Christianity in the bible is somewhat different from what many people are practicing today.. so.. i really don't know why you're saying its the same thing.. also, people can quote out of context to support their false claims.. it doesn't make the original context a lie

Wilgrea7:


apart from the Yahweh worshipping part, i totally agree with you. even Wikipedia has concrete info on the myth

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well_to_Hell_hoax

truth be told, the fear of hell is the reason why some people choose to serve God.. they're not serving him in actual sense.. they're just running from a place that might not even exist

even Jesus said a time will come when people will worship in spirit and in truth.. many Christians worship due to fear of hell.. i don't fear hell.. not even a little bit.. cuz according to good research and NDE's... it doesn't seem to have a firm existence.. even if i just ceased to exist after death, i would still choose to worship Yahweh... cuz really.... i have nothing to lose if i do

Why are u speaking in irony? Don't you know that it's the story of Jesus that brought about the idea of hell fire in our own world? How come you are now saying that it may not even exist? That means if it doesn't exist, Jesus doesn't exist too.

otemanuduno:
Why are u speaking in irony? Don't you know that it's the story of Jesus that brought about the idea of hell fire in our own world? How come you are now saying that it may not even exist? That means if it doesn't exist, Jesus doesn't exist too.

no bro.. please do research.. the doctrine of eternal torment didn't exist until about 600 years after the death of Christ.. vast majority of our church fathers believed in the annihilation and conditional immortality of the soul.. it was a man, st. Augustine who introduced the doctrine of the immortal soul and that's when the church adopted it as the main doctrine.. also, it was used to put people in line..

but i said it may not exist.. it remains. that is because there are many scrolls(of which i have not read) that may seem to talk of eternal torment..or even purgatory. although the Jewish tanahk and the dead sea scrolls are said to speak of annihilation. i believe in annihilation. i am not ignorant enough to say only me is right.. when we all die, we'll find out the truth. but that doesn't still make me fear hell. not even a lil bit

Wilgrea7:


I've spent 6 months doing research... I actually found out that the kind of Christianity in the bible is somewhat different from what many people are practicing today.. so.. i really don't know why you're saying its the same thing.. also, people can quote out of context to support their false claims.. it doesn't make the original context a lie

Then whose fault is it.
The funny thing is that Christians think division within Christianity started in this modern era, they couldn't be more wrong.

In the first century AD, the divisions within Christianity were rife and very deep.

Now Christians differ in petty issues like baptism, tithing, faith and sin etc.

Compared to the early Christians , they differed in issues like the divinity of Christ, the existence of the holy spirit, the marcionites even believed that the OT god was evil.

You can Google early divisions in Christianity and you will see for yourself.
You will find out about some major sects like Gnostics, marcionites, ebionites, paulinists, nestorians, Arians etc.

At that time, Christians didn't have a complete NT but they had an OT which has always been regarded as scripture.

They had gospels that talked about the life of Jesus even though on many occasions these gospels contradicted themselves. I am wondering if you have heard of the gospels of peter, gospel of Judas, gospel of Mary Magdalene etc. One apocryphal gospel that I find very interesting is the gospel of peter. You can Google it and read it .

Looking at the history of Christianity you will find out that the character of jesus that you refer to as the backbone of Christianity was agreed upon by the 4th century. So Christianity couldn't even agree on his character and his status.

Now lets accept the character of the real Jesus is what is in the gospel, look at the development of Christianity since the days of the Catholic churches dominance that led to atrocities like the inquisition, crusades etc and even look at the rise of Protestantism which should have been a good development but lo and behold they started going down the path of the Catholic church by getting involved in European politics[ Anglican and Methodist].

Then you can look at the rise of 20th century Pentecostalism which is the fastest growing sect. In it you still find confusion over issues like tongues, holiness, giving of firstfruits, tithing etc.

Can't you see that from the inception of Christianity till date that it has been a big mess.

You can allude to the real Christianity but in reality there is nothing like that. We have over 30,000 schisms in Christianity but the ironical thing is that the bible is largely harmonious amongst all of them. Apart from some differences in the Catholic bible, the bible across all denominations is basically the same.
So ask yourself where are these divisions coming from? They come from people interpreting scriptures in different ways .

The bible has nothing like a note or legend to tell its readers how to interpret it, the parts that should be allegory, fact etc.
The fact remains that if you give 200 people a bible to start practicing christianity and leave them to their own devices there is a high probability that you will have at least 50 different versions of Christianity.

So my brother biblical Christianity can't be defined in a particular way.

Wilgrea7:


no bro.. please do research.. the doctrine of eternal torment didn't exist until about 600 years after the death of Christ.. vast majority of our church fathers believed in the annihilation and conditional immortality of the soul.. it was a man, st. Augustine who introduced the doctrine of the immortal soul and that's when the church adopted it as the main doctrine.. also, it was used to put people in line..

but i said it may not exist.. it remains. that is because there are many scrolls(of which i have not read) that may seem to talk of eternal torment..or even purgatory. although the Jewish tanahk and the dead sea scrolls are said to speak of annihilation. i believe in annihilation. i am not ignorant enough to say only me is right.. when we all die, we'll find out the truth. but that doesn't still make me fear hell. not even a lil bit

Then it means the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John started to exist 600 years ago too, according to you, because throughout Matthew to John, hell fire as a place of everlasting torment was mentioned.

Guy, no matter how you try to twist the bible to fit our time, I CAN'T BE BOUGHT OVER. I HAVE SEEN BEYOND THE PHYSICAL AND I HAVE MET EUSEBIUS THE AUTHOR AND THE FINISHER OF YOUR FAITH.

LiberaDeus:


Then whose fault is it.
The funny thing is that Christians think division within Christianity started in this modern era, they couldn't be more wrong.

In the first century AD, the divisions within Christianity were rife and very deep.

Now Christians differ in petty issues like baptism, tithing, faith and sin etc.

Compared to the early Christians , they differed in issues like the divinity of Christ, the existence of the holy spirit, the marcionites even believed that the OT god was evil.

You can Google early divisions in Christianity and you will see for yourself.
You will find out about some major sects like Gnostics, marcionites, ebionites, paulinists, nestorians, Arians etc.

At that time, Christians didn't have a complete NT but they had an OT which has always been regarded as scripture.

They had gospels that talked about the life of Jesus even though on many occasions these gospels contradicted themselves. I am wondering if you have heard of the gospels of peter, gospel of Judas, gospel of Mary Magdalene etc. One apocryphal gospel that I find very interesting is the gospel of peter. You can Google it and read it .

Looking at the history of Christianity you will find out that the character of jesus that you refer to as the backbone of Christianity was agreed upon by the 4th century. So Christianity couldn't even agree on his character and his status.

Now lets accept the character of the real Jesus is what is in the gospel, look at the development of Christianity since the days of the Catholic churches dominance that led to atrocities like the inquisition, crusades etc and even look at the rise of Protestantism which should have been a good development but lo and behold they started going down the path of the Catholic church by getting involved in European politics[ Anglican and Methodist].

Then you can look at the rise of 20th century Pentecostalism which is the fastest growing sect. In it you still find confusion over issues like tongues, holiness, giving of firstfruits, tithing etc.

Can't you see that from the inception of Christianity till date that it has been a big mess.

You can allude to the real Christianity but in reality there is nothing like that. We have over 30,000 schisms in Christianity but the ironical thing is that the bible is largely harmonious amongst all of them. Apart from some differences in the Catholic bible, the bible across all denominations is basically the same.
So ask yourself where are these divisions coming from? They come from people interpreting scriptures in different ways .

The bible has nothing like a note or legend to tell its readers how to interpret it, the parts that should be allegory, fact etc.
The fact remains that if you give 200 people a bible to start practicing christianity and leave them to their own devices there is a high probability that you will have at least 50 different versions of Christianity.

So my brother biblical Christianity can't be defined in a particular way.

exactly... you seem to be driving at my point but you don't know.. I've read a few apocryphal books.. i understand the divisions in Christianity.. that's why i don't subscribe to a particular denomination.. you were right when you said people interpret scriptures in different ways just to set up their claims.. that's the same thing i said earlier. in most churches today, you'll find out that they've left the main teachings of Christ which is love and teach less important things like tongues, tapping glory etc.. i would still like to read more apocryphal books.. but I'm lazy nowadays. there are contradictions.. there are false things.. doesn't make the whole thing false.. that's why i said Christianity as pertaining to the bible and even the apocryphal gospels about Christ is different from what we see today... i try to follow God... not man

otemanuduno:
Then it means the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John started to exist 600 years ago too, according to you, because throughout Matthew to John, hell fire as a place of everlasting torment was mentioned.

Guy, no matter how you try to twist the bible to fit our time, I CAN'T BE BOUGHT OVER. I HAVE SEEN BEYOND THE PHYSICAL AND I HAVE MET EUSEBIUS THE AUTHOR AND THE FINISHER OF YOUR FAITH.

bro try and reason with me here... just do a research.. the doctrine of eternal torment did exist 600 years after the death of Christ

the word hell in most of Christ's saying was from the word Gehenna.. which was a refuse dump and incinerator outside Jerusalem.. so in the real sense, it signified everlasting destruction not eternal torment. but the people who wanted to support the eternal torment doctrine translated the words Gehenna, sheol, tartarus and Hades as hell.. please bro.. do research on it

LiberaDeus:
Op I once heard this story but I never checked it out.
I heard it when I was in the shackles of the prison called Christianity.
One of the unspoken rules of that prison is to accept everything that strengthens your belief and never ever ever ask questions or scrutinize any faith strengthening story.

This thread just reminded me of it and in less than 5 minutes of googling it I found out that it was a popular hoax known as the "well to hell hoax".

The funny thing is that many christards are stuck in that mental prison without realizing that 5 minutes of research can debunk such lies. For Christianity as a whole, I will say one month of careful research can bring the walls crumbling down.

10 million lifetime of yours cannot bring it down...Because you can't see air does not mean it does not exist...you breath it , you feel it and its work exist around you....

Wilgrea7:


bro try and reason with me here... just do a research.. the doctrine of eternal torment did exist 600 years after the death of Christ

the word hell in most of Christ's saying was from the word Gehenna.. which was a refuse dump and incinerator outside Jerusalem.. so in the real sense, it signified everlasting destruction not eternal torment. but the people who wanted to support the eternal torment doctrine translated the words Gehenna, sheol, tartarus and Hades as hell.. please bro.. do research on it

The rich man in Jesus story was in a flame of fire, according to your jesus. Does it mean that passage of the bible didn't happen? If it didn't, then this means that your jesus is a liar for saying that it did? Go and read about the rich man and Lazarus in your evil book and come back here to tell me that Jesus(the fictional character) didn't prrach about the everlasting fire of hell.
According to your storybook(bible) the rich man was not destroyed eternally but he suffered eternal torment in the flame of fire. Is that passage a lie?

Wilgrea7:


exactly... you seem to be driving at my point but you don't know.. I've read a few apocryphal books.. i understand the divisions in Christianity.. that's why i don't subscribe to a particular denomination.. you were right when you said people interpret scriptures in different ways just to set up their claims.. that's the same thing i said earlier. in most churches today, you'll find out that they've left the main teachings of Christ which is love and teach less important things like tongues, tapping glory etc.. i would still like to read more apocryphal books.. but I'm lazy nowadays. there are contradictions.. there are false things.. doesn't make the whole thing false.. that's why i said Christianity as pertaining to the bible and even the apocryphal gospels about Christ is different from what we see today... i try to follow God... not man

You get my point now.
But I don't care about the deviations now and I don't see the earlier versions as a model that people should aspire to.

Reasons being that early Christianity plagiarized Judaism and forcefully married its central character to the judaic messianic prophecy even though no prophecy literally pointed to him . It was a crude deviation and unlawful metabolism out of judaism. To top it all off, they absorbed pagan popular beliefs like virgin birth, resurection, divinity etc all in a bid to make it more acceptable for the time they were in[ Greco Roman period].

Early Christianity was a monstrous creation as a result of too much expectancy of some jews waiting for a messiah and also hellenization of these Jews. They created a messiah because they really wanted one. That creation has caused most of the issues the Jews have faced. They faced massive discrimination and persecution in Europe because the stain of being god killers couldn't be wiped out in the minds of Christians.
They have faced pogroms in the Christian world, the hate also got carried over into the Islamic world due to the Muslims respect for Isa and their disdain for his killers.

But in all this no one has ever analysed the over 50 messianic prophecies and proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Yahshua of Nazareth met them. That seems very unjust to the Jews. It was meant to be their messiah so I guess the world should leave them to discover or accept him.
Apostle Paul was a cheap skate that wanted more followers and power.
That's why with the stroke of a pen and the claim of divine revelation he could abolish the law and its hard regulations like circumcision, waving of hands, abstaining from unclean foods etc .
That very move was like the opening of the flood gates for new converts. It made it much easier for people to convert.

That's why when I look at modern day pentescostalism I just laugh . It's clear to any one who really reads the bible to see that they have changed the concept of early christianity all for a profit. They have misquoted scriptures in order to make them seem to be about prosperity when they weren't.

But I don't pity Christianity or orthodoxy because they did it to the ancient Jews. It is a religion built on lies, distortion and a desire for power. These lies will only produce more lies. So let them continue in their delusions. The religion will later die a slow death.

In this case , I can confidently say " throw the baby[ biblical orthodoxy] out with the bathwater[ pentescostalism] .

Hargbo:
10 million lifetime of yours cannot bring it down...Because you can't see air does not mean it does not exist...you breath it , you feel it and its work exist around you....

Hahaha, no be only 10 million lifetimes.

Read the articles below. Atheism is on a very fast rise. Religious growth is declining. In Europe , religion is on life support.

The funny thing is that its the most developed countries that are dumping it. The countries with low HDIs are the ones still grappling in it.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160422-atheism-agnostic-secular-nones-rising-religion/


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

Air is real, and who said we can't see air. We can see the molecules of oxygen, nitrogen and any other gas in air. Vision is not the only means of perception and am happy you know that. We feel air, we breath it, just put your hand near your nostrils and feel the air. You can even hear it, you can see its effects.

But coming to your God. The only claim you have is that we have intelligent life. But that's not proof of your god cause many others make that claim.

Plead give me tangible proof of your god and the claims in your holy babble.

jerrythafinisher:
Heaven is real, hell is real ...
Lord help me, I don't want to go to hell

Don't worry my son. You will not go to hell. The Light of God ALMIGHTY has quenched any illusion of hell long ago and yahweh who imagined hell with his head is now cast into his spiritual prison. And by year 3000, some people will sing a song of victory. Fear nothing my son. You are a god yourself.

If hell exist, does that not mean that Jesus is a failure or God did not accept his sacrifice....

Just asking.

otemanuduno:
The rich man in Jesus story was in a flame of fire, according to your jesus. Does it mean that passage of the bible didn't happen? If it didn't, then this means that your jesus is a liar for saying that it did? Go and read about the rich man and Lazarus in your evil book and come back here to tell me that Jesus(the fictional character) didn't prrach about the everlasting fire of hell.
According to your storybook(bible) the rich man was not destroyed eternally but he suffered eternal torment in the flame of fire. Is that passage a lie?

Jesus is not fictional , He actually Lived and exist till today.

You still don't seem to understand what the other guy was telling you. If you remove the word " Hell " from that story and leave the original word " Hades " , you will realize its all a PARABLE.

Jesus said the rich man was in HADES, or Sheol which is Grave in english , ( you can check Eccl 9:10 , or Rev 20:14 ) . that alone showcase the parable in Jesus words, you won't find flames in a grave except a
decomposing body .


Again, mainstream Christianity belives its a spirit part of man that go to this hell, CONTRARILY . the description of tongue , water , fingers in Jesus story support fully a human body description and not any ghost theory . whereas you and I know the body go to dust , Not meant to be taken literal