In my various engagement with religious folks, especially the emotive Christians folks, they have never failed to show how routinic, archaic, mechanical, stale and lifeless, the whole idea of God and salvation from sin are.

For instance, whenever i get to let them into the know, that i had experienced being "born again" for over 20 years, was a student pastor, secretary to JCF at UNILAG and was a freelance preacher after graduation, they all and without exception, always respond with this cliché -

"what you had is mental assent to the gospel, and not encounter with god".

The fact that these folks have no other response other than this cliché, shows how mentally marooning religious beliefs can be, as far as the function of the human mind is concerned.

The human mind is innately capable of acceptance and rejection, of any worldviews anytime and for whatever reason. There's nothing supernatural about acceptance or rejection of ideologies/worldviews (religious ideologies in this instance).

Using the very story book of these folks, I shall now prove that being born again is nothing but a mere mental assent to the religious idea of Jesus.

THE CHARADE OF BEING "BORN AGAIN"

Every human being (mentally normal and abnormal), have a belief system per time. What defines a belief system is whether such belief is formed (no belief is genetic, all beliefs are acquired/formed) by reason(s), illusion(s) or assumption(s).

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that you do, except God be with him.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

When you form a belief, you're "born" into that "belief world". To be born again therefore means that you reject belief in (eg traditional religion), and form (accept) a belief in Jesus' religious ideologies.

John 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water means word/knowledge, to be able to form belief in Jesus' worldview, you will have to learn what Jesus teaches. Your cognition, memory and emotion, will then create the neura-pathway for this learning, consequently, a Jesus' religious idea is formed/"born" in your mind.

"Spirit" means understanding. Although religious folks have fraudulently and erroneously, posit that the word "Spirit" means a certain "personal holy spirit". It's a grand falsehood, with the sole aim of projecting some kind of mysticism of the whole idea of being born again.
A proficient knowing and realization of what has been learnt, leads to understanding. It's the combination of the water (knowledge) and spirit (understanding), that produce strong feelings about an idea as being the truth (belief).

Beliefs have subliminal effects on human minds, it's these effects that creates subjective experiences (trance, vision, Prophecy etc) in the minds of folks that claim something "spectacular" or "supernatural" happened to them when they became born again.

hehe

xtians are funny

You should tone down the vitriol, lest you turn what promises to be an interesting thread into a pissing contest.

akintom:


Beliefs have subliminal effects on human minds, it's these effects that creates subjective experiences (trance, vision, Prophecy etc) in the minds of folks that claim something "spectacular" or "supernatural" happened to them when they became born again.

We all know that all the aforestated fade with time. How then do you explain the transformation of life?

Actually, it is impossible for a single person to claim that the reality experienced by millions of people is a hoax! That postion only suggests that that person is hurt or bitter.

JESUS AGREES WITH ME.......

Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundred times, some sixty, some thirty.

It's those who have received his teachings (word) and proficiently know and realized what he taught them (understand), that can be said to be born again.

This confirms that the whole idea of being born again is just a MENTAL ASSENT to an idea of jesus about religion.

U need to be born again, OP... It doesn't matter how honest you are, how generous you are, how gentle you are or another supposed virtue, if you don't become born again, you will roast in hell like boli for eternity...

interesting

foladara777:
U need to be born again, OP... It doesn't matter how honest you are, how generous you are, how gentle you are or another supposed virtue, if you don't become born again, you will roast in hell like boli for eternity...

salvation blackmail, keeping Abrahamic God's adherents in line since time immemorial

hopefulLandlord:


salvation blackmail, keeping Abrahamic God's adherents in line since time immemorial

And highly effective too.

EVEN ST PAUL AGREES WITH ME........

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


It's about hearing and hearing the same stories, even when they have been sufficiently shown to be myths and superstitions, yet religious folks give assent to the gist.

This is possible because the stories, forbids the adherents from hearing other factual knowledge that can perforate all the religious falsehoods.

Scholar8200:
We all know that all the aforestated fade with time. How then do you explain the transformation of life?

Actually, it is impossible for a single person to claim that the reality experienced by millions of people is a hoax! That postion only suggests that that person is hurt or bitter.

Transformation of life can occur at any standard rehab home

hopefulLandlord:


salvation blackmail, keeping Abrahamic God's adherents in line since time immemorial

Fear is the strongest emotion in the world

akintom:


Transformation of life can occur at any standard rehab home

Instantaneously? NO WAY!

Its seems u've forgotten wat d bible say: DAT except a man be born again he can't enter in2 d kingdom of GOD

Scholar8200:
Instantaneously? NO WAY!

What's instantaneous?

akintom:


What's instantaneous?

The transformation of life!

feodan:
Its seems u've forgotten wat d bible say: DAT except a man be born again he can't enter in2 d kingdom of GOD

Concept of born again was a psychological mechanism by which Jesus created a cult followership.

Kingdom of God is part of the illusion.

akintom:


Concept of born again was a psychological mechanism by which Jesus created a cult followership.

Kingdom of God is part of the illusion.

pls which church do u attend ?

Scholar8200:
The transformation of life!

I guess a suspension of reasoning is an "instantaneous transformation of life".

Taking on religious morals is part of it

Dressing absurdly is part of it

Speaking with pious tone is part of it

Wearing long caps and bling bling chains around the neck is part of it

Seeing every other human who is not xtian as evil and doomed, is part of it

feodan:
pls which church do u attend ?

Church of Humanism

akintom:


I guess a suspension of reasoning is an "instantaneous transformation of life".

Taking on religious morals is part of it

Dressing absurdly is part of it

Speaking with pious tone is part of it

Wearing long caps and bling bling chains around the neck is part of it

Seeing every other human who is not xtian as evil and doomed, is part of it

Consider this:
Another account of revival in East Africa, appearing in an early edition of Herald of His Coming tells us: "We have just come from a wonderful week in the most antiwhite tribe out here, the Ababuas. What works of grace! Great, strong men, Goliaths of Gath I called them. One had killed a white man in a fight. One said that in those days six years ago, every nice woman was his animal; another, that he beat his wife like a cow. Another, that he was a slave to wine.

"Then think of hearing these great strong fellows say, ‘Prison and the whip and threats could not change us; we left and did exactly the same again. But the blood of Jesus has power! The blood of Jesus has power! We are different men! We neither do, nor want to do what we used to! We have been born again! We have been crucified with Christ, and now Jesus lives in us!’ We were at four such wonderful conferences in the tribe last week with about eight hundred of them. What welcome they gave us! We might have been angels from Heaven instead of once-hated white men."

Oh, friends, is that transforming power of God not what we desperately need to see in our day and culture?
http://www.heraldofhiscoming.com/800x600/home.htm

Is this a mental case? can you experiment this?

Scholar8200:
Consider this:
Another account of revival in East Africa, appearing in an early edition of Herald of His Coming tells us: "We have just come from a wonderful week in the most antiwhite tribe out here, the Ababuas. What works of grace! Great, strong men, Goliaths of Gath I called them. One had killed a white man in a fight. One said that in those days six years ago, every nice woman was his animal; another, that he beat his wife like a cow. Another, that he was a slave to wine.

"Then think of hearing these great strong fellows say, ‘Prison and the whip and threats could not change us; we left and did exactly the same again. But the blood of Jesus has power! The blood of Jesus has power! We are different men! We neither do, nor want to do what we used to! We have been born again! We have been crucified with Christ, and now Jesus lives in us!’ We were at four such wonderful conferences in the tribe last week with about eight hundred of them. What welcome they gave us! We might have been angels from Heaven instead of once-hated white men."

Oh, friends, is that transforming power of God not what we desperately need to see in our day and culture?
http://www.heraldofhiscoming.com/800x600/home.htm

Is this a mental case? can you experiment this?

With the number of "transformed" folks in Nigeria, we should be devoid of the crass moral decadence then.

akintom:
THE CHARADE OF BEING "BORN AGAIN"

Every human being (mentally normal and abnormal), have a belief system per time. What defines a belief system is whether such belief is formed (no belief is genetic, all beliefs are acquired/formed) by reason(s) or assumption(s).

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that you do, except God be with him.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

When you form a belief, you're "born" into that "belief world". To be born again therefore means that you reject belief in (eg traditional religion), and form (accept) a belief in Jesus' religious ideologies.

John 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water means word/knowledge, to be able to form belief in Jesus' worldview, you will have to learn what Jesus teaches. Your cognition, memory and emotion, will then create the neura-pathway for this learning, consequently, a Jesus' religious idea is formed/"born" in your mind.

"Spirit" means understanding. Although religious folks have fraudulently and erroneously, posit that the word "Spirit" means a certain "personal holy spirit". It's a grand falsehood, with the sole aim of projecting some kind of mysticism of the whole idea of being born again.
A proficient knowing and realization of what has been learnt, leads to understanding. It's the combination of the water (knowledge) and spirit (understanding), that produce strong feelings about an idea as being the truth (belief).

Beliefs have subliminal effects on human minds, it's these effects that creates subjective experiences (trance, vision, Prophecy etc) in the minds of folks that claim something "spectacular" or "supernatural" happened to them when they became born again.

You read the Bible like a 'story book' as you described so it can only produce surface knowledge of the truth of God to you. I will point out a few things to you.
Firstly becoming Born again is a spiritual matter as expressed in Rom 10: 9-10 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. This is the first step being born again or being saved. After that there is the renewal of your mind to become like Christ by the word of God (Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. But that is not the way you learned Christ!— assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness Eph 4:17-24)
Secondly, you are quite correct about water meaning word/knowledge, very wrong is saying/thinking that the word is to be memorise for start forming something. The word is not for argument or show. The knowledge from the word of God is the transformational power of God to make you Christ like (born again/new life) not to make you feel better than others. How can you EVER allude that the Spirit is a fraud created by religious folks. Even trying to reduce the Spirit to an understanding. Does it make any sense to you. I definitely can see how much you suffered for 20 years trying to form born again or Christianity-How you must have struggled. THE SPIRIT IS A PERSONALITY. Lacking that understanding brought you to where you are now. It is obvious you were a very shallow pastor never digested a single word from the Bible or even praying for understanding.
Finally, being born again or becoming a Christian is not an emotional exercise that grips you for awhile and then leaves and then come back again. or a feeling you get when you are in church or you hear a song or something. Bro, it a permanent reality in your heart.

Should you try to argue or look a debate, sincerely re-examine yourself again, ask your spirit questions and let the truth guide you. Jesus is not a fraud that seek captives as followers. I was once in your shoes, tired and frustrated because I stayed on the shallow stuffs. never digging deep to grow but was tossed about by sin and doctrine. I decided to quit but thought I should cross check again to make sure that I satisfied my conscience, it was then I found Jesus for myself. Through your carnal mind you can not get eternal life. May God help you in Jesus name-amen

brodalikeme:


You read the Bible like a 'story book' as you described so it can only produce surface knowledge of the truth of God to you. I will point out a few things to you.
Firstly becoming Born again is a spiritual matter as expressed in Rom 10: 9-10 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. This is the first step being born again or being saved. After that there is the renewal of your mind to become like Christ by the word of God (Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. But that is not the way you learned Christ!— assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness Eph 4:17-24)
Secondly, you are quite correct about water meaning word/knowledge, very wrong is saying/thinking that the word is to be memorise for start forming something. The word is not for argument or show. The knowledge from the word of God is the transformational power of God to make you Christ like (born again/new life) not to make you feel better than others. How can you EVER allude that the Spirit is a fraud created by religious folks. Even trying to reduce the Spirit to an understanding. Does it make any sense to you. I definitely can see how much you suffered for 20 years trying to form born again or Christianity-How you must have struggled. THE SPIRIT IS A PERSONALITY. Lacking that understanding brought you to where you are now. It is obvious you were a very shallow pastor never digested a single word from the Bible or even praying for understanding.
Finally, being born again or becoming a Christian is not an emotional exercise that grips you for awhile and then leaves and then come back again. or a feeling you get when you are in church or you hear a song or something. Bro, it a permanent reality in your heart.

Should you try to argue or look a debate, sincerely re-examine yourself again, ask your spirit questions and let the truth guide you. Jesus is not a fraud that seek captives as followers. I was once in your shoes, tired and frustrated because I stayed on the shallow stuffs. never digging deep to grow but was tossed about by sin and doctrine. I decided to quit but thought I should cross check again to make sure that I satisfied my conscience, it was then I found Jesus for myself. Through your carnal mind you can not get eternal life. May God help you in Jesus name-amen

It's a pity that religious absurdities only become obvious, when the folks buffeted by it, step out from the primitive and anachronistic God idea.

An2elect2:
You call my new life in Christ a mere charade?

I can only laugh What do you know? nothing

So educate us what is different or special about your new life

akintom:


It's a pity that religious absurdities only become obvious, when the folks buffeted by it, step out from the primitive and anachronistic God idea.

You're welcome for "pitying" me, I did rather stay stock to my "primitive and foolish" belief than embrace a mediocre and abating system

foladara777:

So educate us what is different or special about your new life

The Spirit of Christ. His suffering, death and resurrection are all being manifested in me.

O how blessed i am that God counted me worthy to partake in His Glory.

Its been 4yrs since God found me and He has not departed!

brodalikeme:


You're welcome for "pitying" me, I did rather stay stock to my "primitive and foolish" belief than embrace a mediocre and abating system

@bold Yes! There lies the power of God

An2elect2:
The Spirit of Christ. His suffering, death and resurrection are all being manifested in me.

O how blessed i am that God counted me worthy to partake in His Glory.

Its been 4yrs since God found me and He has not departed!

But u still haven't told us what's different about your life?? Like what's better about it... What do you have that can't be found in the lives of unbelievers

foladara777:

But u still haven't told us what's different about your life?? Like what's better about it... What do you have that can't be found in the lives of unbelievers

I told you already

You see but you cant percieve!

What you ought to ask is, "Are you contented?" For that, all men seek.

And if i have all, which is God, then i am satisfied